Advertisement:

Pages: 1 [2] 3 |   Go Down

Author Topic: Would you marry from another sect? we are all muslims at the end of the day  (Read 7572 times)

sheikh87

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72

I didnt say i did not accept your apology... although i am not upset about what you said. Do not be flatterd.

Well i didnt say your points were not vaild. But in Saudi arabia there are some dodgy characters so one shiekh does not mean its unanamous! one word against another. and They are often biased. Of course he is not going to say "yes lets all unit and become one ummah, he is saudi of course he loves the divisions.." He would not encourage dialouge between sunni and shia although he should be. Becuase at the end of the day its all politics... and some people took it too far.

Anyway yes this topic got personal i dont know how. i asked in general and some how it landed on me and my life. so lets just end the Topic here.

Thanks for the two contributers. lol
jazakallah khier




lol

Too late, you already opened up a good topic, the question is a good question. we won't mention peoples lives anymore now it's just general and a good topic


It doesn't need to be unanimous. The truth is the truth even if only one human being is following it:)

They have dodgy characters everywhere and a sheikh is just a sheikh what matters is the proof he comes up with.
 
Consider this: we can never unit with christians and jews while they are disbleivers, so what is the difference between them and hardcore innovators?

You should know we differentiate between a hardcore innovator and one that follows the sunnah in most things but innovates here or there.


"yes lets all unit and become one ummah, he is saudi of course he loves the divisions.."

Out of curiousity who said that about saudi scholars? lol, from the little I read from you I don't think you would say something like that though I could be wrong and your free to your own opinion:) Im lucky to hear it:)

shukran for the response
Logged

Muslimah21

  • Guest

You have changed your tune??  ??? ???

Logged

sheikh87

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72

yes. and i thank you for that.
Logged

Muslimah21

  • Guest

All i am saying is that most shiekhs in Saudi arabia are well known for thier Pure hate for shia, and even calling them Kuffar. prefering a christian or jew to them... astagfirallah may allah forgive them.

Well i have watched some lectures and the shiekhs in there have called Shia Kuffar. And where did they leanr and study their deen? Saudi arabia. Atagfirallah... so thier teachers have embedded into them hate for another muslim brother. If i met a shiekh like that i would refuse to listen to anything he says.. a man who spreads hate for another muslim brother is not worthey to teach people, this is not Islam and this is not Sunnah.
Logged

sheikh87

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72

we don't consider those that Allah and his Messenger considered as kuffar to be such.

Wouldn't you at least listen to what they have to say in the name of being open minded? ;) What if they are right;)? Not saying that they are, but what if?
Logged

Muslimah21

  • Guest

Anyone who spread hate and injustice is not someone you should listen too and look upto. i would listen to them as i have. But then i say Subhanallah and alahmdulillah i am not full of hate and ignorance as they are. makes me appreicate what i have and the awarness allah has given me.
No they are not right.
As they say if a shiekh who claims to be hafid gets one word incorrect when quoting from the Quran you are advised to not believe a word he says. and i say its the same prinicple for those who spread and preach hate for our brothers in Islam. This is not hate for the Isrealis and Zionists its hate for our brothers and sisters... Shias who stick up for us. Hezbollah are Shia and look at what they do for the muslims. What do saudia arabia do? Sit on thier Fat backsides and count thier money and do nothing for the ummah.. just TALK TALK TALK. all talk and no action!
Logged

sheikh87

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72

I wonder if I made a typo in my last message because I meant to say:

we ONLY declare disbelievers the people Allah declared as disbelievers.

If Allah considers people with certain attributes to be kuffar then we have no choice but to submit to that.

Why do you say "Saudi Arabia"? that's racist isn't it?

I don't think I know more than you, rather I consider this to be sharing. I agree that Saudis can be lazy but I am happy that not all of them are.

Okay there is a principle about religious loving and hating:

We are obliged to love Muslims in accordance to how much their actions are Muslim and hate them in accordance in how much their actions are not Islamic/sinful.

But we can't generalize and say all group such and such look up for us and therefore they are all good. You already said that before, there are good sunnis and bad sunnis as well as with the shia's.

One student supposedly never got accepted into the university I am at because in his interview he was asked about a king that rules by other than Islamic law and he answered that action is a Major Disbelief. One of our teachers got mad when he heard the student never got accepted and said everybody will have their own believes in their hearts and all a teachers duty is to teach them. So I think that you shouldn't generalize about all saudis nor believe that they should change their believes because you think they are not right. Rather, what I can benefit is if you tell me where they are wrong and then can be more fruitful.

For starters:

1) Most saudi scholars believe that a person who asks other than Allah for assistance in the form of dua' (asking somebody that's dead for something) is a kafir even if the person says La ilaha illa Allah. But, when the scholars meet somebody doing that they won't rush to call the person a kafir. They will explain to them that dua' is worship and to do this worship to somebody other than Allah is kufr.

2)After all the quraysh believed in Allah but they used to call upon statues which is why the Prophet (saws) called them to Islam i.e. even though they believed Allah is the creator they did worship to other than Allah as well and became kafirs by that.

Would you disagree with the above 2 points particularly 1)?
Logged

Muslimah21

  • Guest

Yes you made a typo ::)

Well allah says that a msulim is one who declares shahada. The example is given when a companion of the Prophet (SAW) killed an enamy of allah. But before he was killed he declared belief in allah and muhammed (SAW). but the companion said that he only said it to spare his life and even though that may be true the prophet (SAW) said to him... do you know what was in his heart? only allah knows what is in the heart. So basically you nor i can see into someones heart to see thier iman or how much they lovve allah so we have no right to go around pointing and passing judgment on them calling them Kuffar etc etc. Between them and allah.
And yes allah made it clear what things make you a disbeliever. Things such as fornication, murder, Shirk etc etc. But if you repent it is as if you never commited those sins. So leave the judging to allah. And do not find fault in others when we should look to ourselves first and perfect ourselves. thats my advice to you brother.

You hate the action... you do not hate the person. So those who preach hate to shia are commiting a sin. Allah said hate the action not the person. You should still treat that individual as a person with respect. Not go around killing them as they are doing in yemen with shia there. Astagfirallah. And those "few" in saudi who i have heard spread hate by telling Sunnis to go to Iraq and kill Shia. astagfirallah.  :'(


1) the majority of Shia ask only allah for things and make dua only to allah. There are a few exceptions who pray at the graves of the family of the prophet (SAW) It is called Intermediation and i read 2 books on it. it is practiced by sunnis also. in morocco they do it at the graves of holy men. SO please dont say its just Shia, its sunni, sufi and many others. And also the book i read was written by an Indian muslim from the Salafi school of thought. And he is well respected in Aisa. Is he shia? no. Is he arab? no. He says in his book its ok and proven by hadith which are "weak" to intermediate at the graves of the prophet (SAW) holly men, and also at objects the prophets (AS) owned. I know about intermediation very well shiekh.

2) no where have i the read the Prophet (SAW) refered to Qurayesh as KUFFAR. he called them people of mecca he never said they were Kuffar. Our beloved nabi allah never used that word... so who gives people today that right? The  "well respected"shiekhs who say it should be fearful of allah and really shut thier mouths... or as we arabs say "they need to shut their mouths before allah shuts it with the earth"

I am sure they are in disbelif but allah see's into thier heart. Last time i checked i was not able to do that myself... allahu allam maybe allah gave you the gift to see into the hearts of people???? but its unlikely. and therefore you should not pass judgment on the actions of others. They could be doing it for show... or maybe it is genuine but we will never know.
Logged

sheikh87

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72

salam alaykom,

nice reply, I benefitted alot.

There are a few pointers I want to share.

How about a pesron that says shahadah but rewfuses to pray 5 times a day? Did you know that in an islamc country before they would give the person a few days to repent and if he refused to stop praying than  they would kill him?

The ppohet saws sai din an authentic hadeeth that the contract between us and them (the kuffar) is Salah, so however leaves it has disbeleved. I think you made a typo when you said fonication and murder make a person a disbeliever, they don't they are major sins but shirk makes a person a disbeliever not murder or fornication.

I can't coment on a the politics going around in the world, not at last about that stuff.

You shouldn't focus just on what sunnis do to shias.

I never said only shia do intermediation thing, I know other groups do it,. Depending on what they say it can either be just bida or it is shirk. I know you know about this stuff but what I am trying to poin tout is that sometimes it is the kind that makes a person a kafir not just bida' even if some people try to claim it is okay.

The prophet saws said, "I have been commanded to fight mankid until they testify their is no body of worship except Alllah, and they estalbish the prays and give zakah, once they do that they have protected their wealth and blood are  from me except with the rights of islam (hudud).

that's an authentic hadeeth number 8 of an-nawawi's hadeeth.

abu bakr fought agannst those who never paid the zakah after the prophet aws died when he was the khalifafah and said, Wallahi if they even withold a rope that they were giving to the prophet sawsfor zakah  I would fight them for it. When Abu Bakr said that to Omar, Omar rsays I realized that Allah made  Abu Bakr ready to fight.  or as the story goes.


my point: to be a muslim a person has to do more than just say la ilaha illa Allah because the story you mentioned is about what a person needs to say in the battlefield but after that during everyday life there is more to it (since the story was about a battle).
Logged

sheikh87

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72

also, you ca't judge a person that's muslim but is doing kufr ...not at first. but once you explain things to the person (which is a duty like you said) then if the person is stubborn,  and after rempoving all barriers (like lack of awareness, etc. etc.c.) then after ALL barriers are removing you have to call the person what he is. But only after all barriers are removed. this is refering to a perosn that's originally muslim (like shias, sunnis etc.), as for christians et.c ertc. then who ever doubts about their disabelief is a kafir, that's  a principle scholars have.
Logged

Muslimah21

  • Guest

Someone who makes decleration of faith and refuses to practice aspects of it... thats between them and allah. Why do people need to get involed and stick their noses in where its nto wanted. Like i said... if these people are Angels and are pure and consistent in thier deen then they can preach... but when they have fault themselves alot of faults its very hypocritical to get involved. advice is different from forcing someone. Even the prophet SAW never forced anyone. Allah says in his quran.. there is no compulsion in religion... and the judge of that action will be who? allah. so leave it to allah.

Nope allah says when commiting any major sin.. in that period of time that person becomes a kuffar. So if you die doing a major sin its as if you have died as a non-muslim never haveing been muslim. SO if you die when you are commiting murder then you die a non-muslim

Allah says in the Quran do not die... unless in a state of belief. Otherwise you are in big trouble.
But even so... this persons life is in the hands of allah and will have to answer to it himself.

No becuase shia do bad things to sunnis aswell. But seeign as how Shia are the ones who Stand up for me when i am in trouble and they stood up for Ayesha (RA) when Salman rushdi made comments about her in his book. I have alot of respect for them. Where was the Royal family of saudi arabia? never muttered a word. This man was insultign allahs book. Our beloved nabi allah and The kings of arabia did JACK! nothing! thast disgusting.
If you stand up for anything in life.. it should be justice and for allah. You fight for allah and you defend Islam. Thats the most worthey cause.

yes there is those who say laillaha illa allah with just thier tongue. But how will you ever know whats in thier heart brother? leave those people to allah to deal with. and only make dua they act upon that decleration adn start worshipping allah properly.

You are not meant to judge Full stop. Are you god to judge? uh no. Like i said when everyone else has perfected themselves (which will be never) then they can tlak to others and do dawah.
Logged

sheikh87

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72

If we were to stop talking to others and do dawa' until we stoped doing sins then the world would mess up and hell would break loose. we need to take life one minute at a time, if I see somebody smoking I shouldn't keep quiet about it, but it doesn't mean I need to go outside and look for people to smoke to say "quit smoking." Sure the person might be upset but I don't expect him to quiet smoking that exact moment, all I want is for him to think about why he should queit, on his own when he goes home:) and when I am not there.

So your saying a person who disoebyes his parents needs to re-take the shadahah?

There are things that nullfy ones islam and mean they need to re-take shahadah to become muslim again, zina, murder, stealing, disobeying ones parents are not one of those things. They are major sins, but they are not things that nullify ones islam. The hadeeth that says a person does not commit fornicate or steal and at the same time have  imaan means, the person does not have complete imaan, i.e. theire iman is faulty/weak. that's the same for stealing, murder or disobeying ones parents. If you don't agree then how can you say zina makes a person a kafir but not disobeying ones parents?

It's called the nullfiers of Islam, learn them on your free time in sha Allah, for the purpose of staying away from them, not judging others. Did you know that making fun of something in Islam nullifies islam. so when people say hijaab makes a person look like a ghost etc. that person is saying something that nullfies their islam

The prophet saws did say: whoever changes his relgion from amongst you (muslims) then kill him.

Authentic hadeeth, obviously in a Muslim country.  Islam is not an indivualistic religion, if a person becomes a kafir they are a disease in society and are given a chance to return to Islam or they need to be  punished publically to keep society safe from their evil and for many wisdoms Allah knows of.
Logged

Muslimah21

  • Guest

i didnt say that.

I said at the tiem fo commitign the sin that person is Kuffar. "AT THE TIME" So i was just saying if you were to die during that period where you are Kuffar then its nto good becuase you did not die as allah ordered you to die... In a state if Belief.

Brother i gave a few examples... i should have said etc etc etc etc etc. OK. is that clear now. there are many other things that are included on the the list.
Nope its they become non muslim for a period of time. i am not saying they need to re take shahada but they need to repent ASAP! where as some people dont. Some people dont repent for thier sins until years later. But you have to repent for that moment in time when you did a mjor sin becuase in that time you were not muslim.

i have read that already.
Well that hadith contracdicts the Prophet (SAW) he lived with Jews and christians and had them udner protection. He allowed them to do as they please as long as it doesnt hurt anyone. But they also have to live by thier laws. An example is a jewish man he commited adultry and he was married. He and the person who commited the crome were bought forth to Nabi allah (SAW) and he said in Judasim what is the punishment for your crimes... they said to him that one who commits adultry his face is blackened and then they are beaten up. Prophet (SAW) didnt believe them as he knew it was the same punishment as muslims... stoned to death. So he got a rabbi who bought the torah. And when he was reading it the rabbi covered that section. When the prophet (SAW) asked him to read the passage below... it said exactly the same punishment as muslims. So the two were stoned to death!

The moral of the story is the prophet (SAW) allowed other people to be any religion as long as they stuck by the laws and practiced it. And every crome is bought to justice and punishment is given regardless.
Yes it is bad to change your relgiion in Islam is liek scommitign suicide i see it as being like that. But who now adays can give out that punishment? Teh hypocrite rullers of saudi arabia.??? No there is no proper islamic leader who can deal justfully with crimes and punishment and follows sharia. The only time was when the Prophet (SAW) lived and since he died the deen of people have been on a dramatic decline and still is today.

Would you have a hypocrite punish a sinner??? UH NO! i hope you would say no. becuase the hypcrite would also therefore need to be punsihed for his crimes, what ever they may be.

The examples that come to mind becuase the saudi family have been in the news alot with thier dirty secrets. The punishment for fornication is bad over there jail sentence. But yet they allow thier princes to go to strip clubs and do god knows what else. i ahev seen photos in the newspapers. Astagfriallah.
There was one girl she was meant to marry one of the princes's. But she went on holiday to the UK met an english man and ended up fallen pregnant!!! but they get away with it. Where is the justice? where is the punishment??? All i hear them say is that allah will judge them. But for normal people in saudi arabia they are judged by these hypocrites!! that is not fair Shiekh and that is not justice. this is not the sunnah or the sharia they do.   >:( >:( >:(

Well there is alot of evil that muslims do as many of the examples i given above. have they been punished? no! you know why not becuase there is no justice in that country it is all based on who you know. Not religion. Is an utter sham! So yes in an ideal world peopel woudl get punished and judged fairly as fair as possible, but by people who are pious and people are 100% in thier deen. How can you have a hypocrite judge you when hey did the same crime? or they do even worse??? Really i cant understadn that. That is not Islam at all brother. that is Sickening!
Logged

sheikh87

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72

the word in fiqh is called riddah- apostatisy,

if you want to get into a room that has only one entrance, you have to walk in right? Now if a person leaves the room and wants to come back in he must use the same door. Same with islam, if a person leaves islam they must re-state the shahadah to be considered muslim again and sincerely repent to Allah.

it's not enough for an apostate to say Allah forgive me, he must re state the shahadah in order to come back into the room he left using the same door "shahadah".

There is a difference between being a Believer "Momin" and Muslim.

These are the verses on the issue:

Allah says: Oh you who believe, have taqwa of Allah and do not die except as MUSLIMS (he used the word muslimoon not mu'minoo)

and about the Arabian bediouns that recently became Muslims Allah said:


"the Bediouns say: We believe. Answer, you have not believed yet, rather just say we have become muslims"...
Iman is a higher state then Islam. The belief of the people of the sunah and jama'ah is that major sins do not make a person a disbeliever but Iman increases and decreases so, it increases by good deeds decreases by sins. A person who does a major sin and is a muslim is not gonna be in hell forever and he or she will be under the will of ALlah, if Allah wants he will forgive him or if he wants he will punihs him first.

That's what we learned in class, I thought  i would share it with you.

point: why I say major sins don't make a person a kafir at the moment of the sin is becqause if they did they could only come to Islam again by taking shahadah, so instead we have to say their iman becomes imcomplete at that moment and they have to repent sincerely otherwise they have a issue to face in front of Allah. That's to say safe from the hadeeth the prophet saws said, "whoever calls his brother Oh Kafir, then it is either true or it goes back to him:
Logged

Muslimah21

  • Guest

So if it is not true and you call a brother Kuffar then you will be punished for it. Unless you know they are kuffar and know what is in the heart its best people mind thier own buisness and focus on themsleves. Otherwise you are setting yourself up for punishment on al youm qiyama. Why go aroudn judging people wrongfully. Its seems to be an arragotn act and ignorant one too. 
This may all be true what you say. But unless you are perfect yourself its hypocritical to say this to people. Not you. i am just saying people going round telling me you are this you are that, do this do that. when they are sinners themselves.

Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 |   Go Up
 
 



Individual posts do not reflect the views of halfmydeen.org. All trademarks and copyrights are owned by their respective owners.
Comments are owned by the poster and may not be used without consent of the author.
The rest © halfmydeen.org