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Author Topic: Divorcee with children  (Read 2836 times)

Anonymous

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Divorcee with children
« on: Jun. 28, 2010, 02:09 AM »

Assalamu alaykum. A question to the brothers really, but sisters plz do contribute.
My Question is ...
Does it really bother a guy if a sister( for a potential wife) is divorced, & she has one child, two, three or more? How many is acceptable? From what I have seen, there's so much stigma to Divorcees, let alone divorcee with children...lol.
My observation is that some guys think it's ok for some kind of relationship, but never for ACTUAL marriage.
Some guys think it's ok as long she is only 2nd or 3rd wife..hmmm or even worse, somehow you're only good enough for a Visa seeker.
Although, yes it's Sunnah for a bro to take on divorcee etc.. How many guys would actually apply it to their life honestly?
So guess what I'm asking is, are Divorced sisters with children to be considered pitiful in this day & age or can it be overlooked that she is Divorced even with kids if she is a good, kind hearted person? Even if the kids blood doesn't run through the guy's veins?

 
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Anonymous

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Re: Divorcee with children
« Reply #1 on: Jun. 28, 2010, 02:51 AM »

wa alaekumasalam warahmatullaah

yes to most brothers it does, how and why?

the never-before-married ones would not think about such a sister, young brothers like from 18-24 of course would not be inclined because there are a lot of younger unmarried sisters in the community

i think to many brothers it really matters


My observation is that some guys think it's ok for some kind of relationship, but never for ACTUAL marriage.

well thats disturbing and to me it seems these people approach divorced women in an unjust way, and those who have this kinda attitude... well are not real men least to say


Some guys think it's ok as long she is only 2nd or 3rd wife..hmmm or even worse, somehow you're only good enough for a Visa seeker.

haha yeah, i thought this visa seeking stuff was out of fashion these days.. ?


Although, yes it's Sunnah for a bro to take on divorcee etc.. How many guys would actually apply it to their life honestly?

yes tell you what, there *are* some brothers out there who would and are doing this alhamdulilaah
but yes, someone whose never married before and is under 24 would have a different approach because of immaturity and impractical approach towards life

nope not considered to be pitiful at all.
subhan Allaah why would someone consider that?
if someone does theres might be something wrong with their deen Allaahu a'lam

i think the bottom line would be:

there are brothers out there who would and are marrying divorcees, who would overlook that shes been married before and is with kids, and there are young and single brothers out there who would be happy to marry such a sister but these kind of brothers are extremely rare to find due to the spectrum in which they fall

if the brother has deen, thas all what the sister needs because he will fear Allaah s.w.t and will fulfill her rights insha Allaah

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cinders

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Re: Divorcee with children
« Reply #2 on: Jun. 28, 2010, 11:40 PM »

Haha... Visa seekers out of fashion! I think they're trying all sorts of styles nowadays. Everything is hip...lol
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Anonymous

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Re: Divorcee with children
« Reply #3 on: Jun. 29, 2010, 02:12 AM »

So I suppose we can add this to the list of criteria, i.e.

1. Deen (+ Akhlaq I suppose)
2. Beauty
3. Family / Wealth / Visa Status

Lol, you should see some of the matrimonials in the Pakistani/Indian newspapers, 'seeking 19 year rajput girl for my 24 years old banker son. Must know how to cook and be of fair complexion... '... goes on and on like that! It's as if someone not fair is automatically not beautiful....

Honestly, I have never even once seen someone ask for a match with a a strong Deen in these adverts.

I do have a very close  friend whose grand-father came to town as a stranger and made an announcement in the masjid that he was looking for a wife. Luckily for my friend (I suppose it was qismat), his great-grandfather was happy to match up his daughter with this stranger for the sake of Allah.

I don't know many people who as smart and intelligent as my friend (mash'Allah), something good has been going down through their generations. They never have any worry about money, status etc.

Wonder how often that happens today (I suppose having the Imam of the masjid hook you up is the closest analogy nowadays!).

Women and men are so scared, and rely on themselves rather than Allah to extremes nowadays... especially here in the West, where everything needs to be backed up with an insurance policy and an iron-clad contract. *sarcastic* I trust in Visa/MasterCard/Greenbacks *sarcastic ends*

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skhansj

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Re: Divorcee with children
« Reply #4 on: Jun. 29, 2010, 02:14 AM »

Oh BTW, that was me posting the last message. I tripped over the anonymous button, didn't see it in the dark. Sorry !

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cinders

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Re: Divorcee with children
« Reply #5 on: Jun. 29, 2010, 02:38 AM »

 :D, well yeh VISA seekers have the knack I tell you. They are so clever man, real smooth! .... They'll try anything, got nothing to lose I suppose....Lol

No seriously, sometimes I think they think Divorcees are so desperate, they'll marry anyone. I know some divorced sisters DO become a bit on the desperate side, but overall I think Divorced sisters know what they want & what they don't. All my single Divoced friends who are all single mothers know what they DO want & what they don't. Not prepared to settle for less, even though others may see them as not up to standard, because they have baggage, such as children... Which often gets overlooked as a blessing from Allah SWT.   
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JenBean71

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Re: Divorcee with children
« Reply #6 on: Jun. 30, 2010, 05:54 AM »

Asalam alaikum

MashaAllah good posts cinders and skhansj.

I can't help but notice how different those current 'standards' are from those of our prophet SAS , who married divorced women (as mentioned in the first post - it's Sunnah). I suppose I just look at the negative attitudes towards divorced women as not understanding some important aspects of Islam.

Its not the first time that societal norms defined one's 'worth'. It looks as though the stereotypes leveled against divorced women have become normalized to the point that they are regarded as 'less desirable, more or less 'flawed'. The biases against being divorced are so visible - what stays invisible is the iman, the strength, the patience, the faith and the integrity of the sister facing hardships and depending on Allah alone to overcome them. What a shame it is to the Ummah not acknowledge divorced women more positively.

Some women left their abusive husband. Some don't leave because the abuse is 'better' than the stigma of divorce. Nooo...something is definitely wrong with this picture  :o

Interestingly, just to parallel two stigmatized groups - disability and divorce:
How society views impairment depends on what is valued in society... people in the medieval ages were not regarded as medical tragedies if they could not read or had learning disabilities...it wasn’t until a complex social order required literacy that these ‘disabilities’ became visible. I suppose then, the complexities of culture and pride have created that social norm - causing divorced women to become stereotyped negatively. Just to take it a step further - divorced women carry 'baggage?' What about the cultural baggage carried by people who stigmatize divorced people? Where do those of us who do not carry that baggage belong? In my community, more people are embracing Islam, both men and women - and creating their own culture that more resembles that of our Prophet (SAS). The newest member is a Greek-Scottish Canadian brother, just born Alhamdulillah.

I guess when life gives you lemons, make lemonade  :D
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cinders

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Re: Divorcee with children
« Reply #7 on: Nov. 07, 2010, 08:40 AM »

Salam all, I was asking a friend the other day what she'd told her husband with regards to my divorce ( I was married into a very close-knit community... This friend happens to be from there & we became friends after we got married). Anyway, she said her Husband thought it was a shame that Divorcees ( with children) had so much stigma attached to them, yet widows get lots of respect due to their strength with regards to looking after children, looking after household etc.... However Divorcees go through the same thing, yet this gets overlooked.
This is a very good point I think.

I remember supposedly a pillar of the community asking me "What the hell I was playing at leaving my husband?" He was oblivious to what happened in my marriage... (It may also be that he was my ex-husband's best friend  :( )  . I think what got to me more is that I think, he forgot that for me, it was the hardest decision I ever took. I did not take the decision lightly. I had to think about everything, however, one of the main factors was.. I'd be a single mother.
I agree with what sis Jen says.

Alhamdulillah, my children are my blessing. They give a reason to live, to carry on, to fight harder for them,  & also... Most importantly they are a source of happiness, the most delightful people I'll probably ever meet.   
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reeldeel

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Re: Divorcee with children
« Reply #8 on: Nov. 07, 2010, 02:34 PM »

he forgot that for me, it was the hardest decision I ever took. I did not take the decision lightly. I had to think about everything, however, one of the main factors was.. I'd be a single mother.

Sticky topic, and I don't want to be intrusive, but just realizing a wife can decide to leave the husband, am wondering how the processes is islamicaly/idealistically/realistically... Is it out of the blue and all of a sudden oblivious to any issues in the marriage that the husband will realize his wife is leaving him and there's nothing he can do about it. Cuz lets face it, as I've heard men can be very insensible and they can lack apathy and be completely unaware of what there wives are going through.
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JenBean71

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Re: Divorcee with children
« Reply #9 on: Nov. 07, 2010, 04:46 PM »

Asalam alaikum

It is hard to mend a marriage - it takes the commitment from both spouses. What can you do when the situation is unIslamic - its hard to transpose Islamic solutions on a spouse who is not acting like a Muslim.

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cinders

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Re: Divorcee with children
« Reply #10 on: Nov. 07, 2010, 08:42 PM »

It is hard to mend a marriage - it takes the commitment from both spouses. What can you do when the situation is unIslamic - its hard to transpose Islamic solutions on a spouse who is not acting like a Muslim. 



Walaykum Salam. 
Too true, sis Jen. 

I don't think a wife wakes up one day & thinks " I'll just leave him".... I think the situation becomes untennable over time. Of course in my case, I was worried about how it would affect my children, how it would affect him & me, the responsiblity of bringing up children on my own ( the enormity of bringing up children as good, decent human beings & Muslims) finances, having to start all over, telling our families & whether Divorce really is necessary... etc etc...

I know in certain cases, sisters are pushed back to Husband( & vice versa for bro's) and unhappy marriage etc to protect so-called family honour ( where's honour in a son or daughter being unhappy & miserable in a marriage??) however in my case my family were very supportive with regards to my decision.

So bro reeldeel, I don't think it just suddenly happens in most cases, both spouses have some kind of understanding as to what the situation is ( even though one may choose to ignore it, doesn't mean it's not there). It doesn't creep up on you, it's usually a slow build up.    

Check out another thread on here Is it really divorce?
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JenBean71

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Re: Divorcee with children
« Reply #11 on: Nov. 08, 2010, 06:14 AM »

Quote
it's usually a slow build up

Sis cinders, this is accurate and sadly, so true. It feels like your heart is trying to survive but it feels the truth. Despite all that you keep telling yourself its all your fault and no matter how you try its not good enough.





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SimplyMe

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Re: Divorcee with children
« Reply #12 on: Jan. 06, 2011, 02:01 AM »

It shouldn't matter if a woman is divorced with children since it doesn't matter if a man is divorced with children.  It's cruel that society assumes that a divorced woman is at fault for the breakdown of a marriage and it's also cruel that women should be expected to remain in an unhappy marriage.

There is no rational reason for a man to reject a divorced woman with or without children nor for him to be stigmatized for marrying such. 
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jannah

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Re: Divorcee with children
« Reply #13 on: Jan. 07, 2011, 06:56 AM »

It's true people have a lot of double standards when it comes to divorced women, but I actually think it's good for men (and women) to consider thoroughly if they can marry someone with children. They need to understand that they're marrying the whole family and that her/his children become theirs as well. Some ppl won't be able to handle it! If they are not able to, then they shouldn't. I remember one of the stories from the Seerah where the Prophet (s) proposed to Umm Salamah and among her reluctances was that she had small children, and he (s) said her children would be like his children. Always thought that was beautiful. :) Anyways carryon the discussion...
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Al-Qamar

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Re: Divorcee with children
« Reply #14 on: Jan. 09, 2011, 05:57 PM »

Assalamu alaykum all,

I think two separate things here have been mixed together, and because of that mix there's a lot of speculation that doesn't have much foundation.

It's a sad reality that divorce happens, and with everything there is blessing in it if you can find it. Even the pain and trauma of going through it can make you discover who you are, and you're much the wiser for next time. I can honestly say I'm a completely different person now than to how I was before I got divorced, the process itself highlighted many areas where I fell short that I was too blind or arrogant to have noticed before.

For me, personally, I attach no stigma to a divorcee and would happily consider one for marriage.


To have children is also halal, and encouraged within the ummah (the Prophet (saw) once said to marry fertile women because he will compete with the other nations on the Last Day with the number of his followers). In having children, a wife is achieving her purpose, and there should be no negativity associated for this.

However, whilst I'm happy to consider a divorcee for marriage, I cannot consider a divorcee with children because:
  • I don't have the facilities at present to give them their complete rights
  • The children will always be dearer to my wife than I would be, and that connection to her previous husband will always be there because of the children
  • The children may even cause problems themselves (I know of cases where the children resist the re-marrying of their mother and sought to cause problems in her second marriage, but out of love for them she couldn't stop them)
  • If I am to be in a position of looking after children, I'd rather it be on my own terms when I'm ready to have them (rather than being forced into a situation)

I wish nothing but the best for women who have children already, may Allah make it easy for them because they have only done what is natural and expected of them. But not everyone is in a position to be able to accommodate this.

Basically, my point is that the fact that a woman is divorced, and that she has children should be considered two separate things. It's not necessarily the fact that she's a divorcee that's a deal-breaker.

Salaam
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