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Author Topic: Muslim woman tries to avoid the life of a spinster  (Read 5803 times)

brisingr9

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Re: Muslim woman tries to avoid the life of a spinster
« Reply #15 on: Nov. 15, 2010, 05:25 PM »

as salamalaikum,, lot of discussion is goin on here:) well i dont know how someone can point out old country!! strange!!!!!!!
well to be precise god has completed islam and no one can add as he wills!! guess i am an old country follower haha!! but remember new country people life might seem goo now but one day u gotta lot of answering to do!! as far as hijab is concerned it is directly proportional to how much one is commited to islam!! well some wear it bcoz their parents do but generally many women alhamdullilah do it for islam!!
                                                                         in the article conservative ppl r called old country people!! lets see where this new country ppl land up!! pop hiphop r all instruments of satan!! IF I WERE TO SAVE MY SKIN FROM THE ANGER OF ALLAH I DONT MIND BEING OLD COUNTRY ALL MY LIFE!!
SORRY BUT THIS OLD COUNTRY THING REALLY HIT ME :(
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sassysarah

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Re: Muslim woman tries to avoid the life of a spinster
« Reply #16 on: Jan. 01, 2011, 12:29 AM »

Im Sarah Ali, the person that this article was written about. I appreciate the positive and supportive comments from many of you. Id like to respond to the rest of your comments in an organized manner.... Illwrite more later this comment box has a word limit

HIJAB:
Are you men really that fatally attracted to a woman's hair, "OMG look at her hair, Im going to pass out with lust"  I think not, its the body that attracts the most, so that is what should be covered. A person does not have to wear hijab to be a conservative, shareef Muslim.   If you research the definition of modesty and hijab in our religious texts, it actually requires for you to wear a chadar that cloaks all of us, Aya 33.59 in the Quran, so unless we all walk around with a nikaab on we are watering down religious rulings, so spare me please. Hijab is our happy little modification in the western world. Islam practiced in western countries is an Islam of convenience, lets' get real.

MY RELIGIOSITY
Nobody can sit there and judge another person based on an article written and edited by a news source with their own spin. They chose that title, they added the words "old country", and alot more spice to this article. I didnt have the opportunity to correct before it went to print because they did that to mae it ore sensationalized.  Contrary to what some of you incorrectly assumed about me I have a lot of Islamic knowledge and know my history. I dress conservatively by not showing my legs, arms, and wearing modest clothes, have saved myself for marriage, I do not date, I do not drink, I dont go clubbing, I dont cheat people, lie, Im loyal and honest, reliable and am a good person to my family and freinds and customers. I repent when I make mistakes and I try not to do them. I pray, fast every fast, give charity and try my best to stay on the right path. For those of you who did not read the article properly, I do not dance in front of men. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong to listening to music and enjoying witin parties with women only. In the prophet p.b.h. time women had girls parties too and he did not object.
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jannah

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Re: Muslim woman tries to avoid the life of a spinster
« Reply #17 on: Jan. 05, 2011, 06:53 AM »

Hi Sarah,

Thanks for posting. That article was definitely sensationalized. I hope it didn't cause too much negativity for you. I think some guys have a lot of issues around different concepts. It's really too bad. Good luck to you in your search and I hope you find someone :)

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Al-Qamar

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Re: Muslim woman tries to avoid the life of a spinster
« Reply #18 on: Jan. 05, 2011, 11:58 PM »

Assalamu alaykum Sarah,

Jazak'Allah khair for those points. Being as I made the initial comments, I think I'll take this opportunity to respond. And please forgive me in advance for the way this comes across, this is not an attack on you... just the ideas you seek to propagate. Insha'Allah, you'll understand the point behind it.

Are men attracted to hair
Speaking as a man... yes, we are! You don't see many women shaving their heads bald for beauty purpose, but for men it's quite acceptable. As a woman, I don't expect for you to fully appreciate this in the same sense as we do, much like how we'll never appreciate the pain of menstrual cramps. But, in general, the hair is a large part of the beauty of a woman. Take our word for it!

The hijab
Yes, Allah (swt) has made the covering of a woman mandatory through verses in the Qur'an. The debate of hijab vs. niqab is far too detailed to go into right now, both opinions have strong arguments to support them (I lean toward niqab myself). But, suffice to say, all the scholars are agreed that the woman should present herself in a modest manner. I've read your comment on several times and whilst your point isn't clear, it seems you're saying that women are supposed to wear niqab, but they don't in the west, so we should "get real". I'm still confused as to what the point is, regardless of whether the ayat refers to a niqab or hijab, you're not wearing either??

The thing that gets me though is statements like "my deen is important to me", yet the sister (not you specifically, I've come across many) don't wear hijab, don't pray, and don't do a lot of things they're supposed to as Muslimahs, yet they want to hang on to the label? To be a Muslim requires action, not just internal belief alone.

'Muslim' literally means "one who submits [to Allah (swt)]", so the question is, do you submit to His will, or your own desires?

Your religiousity
Fine, I'll accept the article may be twisted without your permission, but you presented yourself to the photographer without a niqab/hijab on, despite complaining in your own words "I have a lot of Islamic knowledge" and "If you research the definition of modesty and hijab in our religious texts, it actually requires for you to wear a chadar". For me that represents either a contradiction, or wilful disobedience to the commandments of Allah.

Women & parties
Actually, there is a lot of things wrong with listening to music... suffice for me to point you in the direction of Kamel el Mekki's lecture "The End of Music" (you can download it here: http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/14/the-end-of-music/). Don't go for the shortened YouTube version, that link will provide you with the full lecture, and the main refutations are in the second part.

With regards to your claim that the Prophet (saw) not objecting to girls having parties, I assume you're referring to the single incident I know of which supports this, which is the incident of A'isha and a slave girl singing on the Day of Eid. Kamel el Mekki refutes this very strongly showing it's an argument *against* music! I won't spoil the lecture for you by telling you how, let's see if you're willing to invest the couple of hours to learn the real status of music! Given that you "have a lot of Islamic knowledge", I'm guessing you like listening to lectures of this nature, so it shouldn't be a problem, insha'Allah :)

And regarding music, it's also permissible for women to play the duff on their wedding night (and bear in mind, in the shariah, the night precedes the day, so don't get the wrong night...), but I don't think you're attending these parties on a regular basis, so that doesn't count. There is also no recorded disagreement of the Companions on the issue of music, there is complete consensus that it's haraam! Not one of the four main madahib say that music is halal.

In short, my sister in Islam, I personally take issue when sisters say their deen is important to them, or they say they have a lot of Islamic knowledge, etc, yet the things they do, the opinions they hold, and the statements they make clearly contradict this. It gives a bad name to Islam, and also reduces the status of those people who actually hold fast to the rope of Allah.

"I am a good person"
I just want to clarify the definition of a "good person", if I may. Good and bad are subjective qualities, what one person perceives as good may be perceived as bad by another (classic example is practically everything in the west vs. everything in the east). Therefore we need an objective measure, and that measure is Allah, since His is the only opinion that counts! Therefore, to claim you are a good person, you should measure yourself against His criteria. Do you read the Qur'an, do you follow the sunnah, do you avoid the haraam, etc, etc. If so, then you can say you are "good", insha'Allah, but for you to know you need to seek real knowledge.

And as far as I can see (and yes, I know imaan is in the heart, but if you study Islam properly, there are a lot of rulings on how you present yourself too to confirm your deen), you have a cultural understanding of Islam, rather than anything from pure classical sources (i.e. the Qur'an and sunnah, as opposed to hearsay and idle chitter-chatter).

I invite you to learn more, there are lots of really good resources available, and if you are sincere, then insha'Allah Allah will make it easy for you. But until then, please leave these silly cultural values behind. They will bring you no benefit at all. Or at least stop confusing them with Islam. There are some points where they're compatible, yes I agree (honesty, trustworthiness, etc), but cultural values will never supercede Islamic values so it's better to concentrate on one, rather than mix the two and dilute that which Allah (swt) and His messenger have brought.

Anything correct I have said is from Allah, and anything wrong is from Shaytan. And I hope you take my statements in the true purpose in which they're meant. I don't know you to attack you, and I do wish you all the best as my sister in Islam, but I also cannot sit on the sidelines and accept what are clearly cultural values being passed of as something Islam accepts and condones... otherwise my Lord will question me as to why I didn't point it out, and I fear Him more than I fear your anger.

Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatuLlah
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skhansj

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Re: Muslim woman tries to avoid the life of a spinster
« Reply #19 on: Jan. 06, 2011, 02:34 AM »

Salaams Al-Qamar,
I do appreciate the zeal with which you try and set higher standards for yourself insha'Allah, but there is a person here that you are talking to as well. Many of these comments would have really hurt me, or angered me, if they had been directed at me.


Islam is a practical religion that is meant to be lived. Neither you nor I have any idea about what it is like to be another person. If Sister Sarah is doing her best to hang on to her ideals, and to follow her dreams at the same time, we should support her. She does not need our lectures.

Whether a woman wears a hijab or not (or a man grows a beard or not)  is not one of the most pressing issues in societies where people are falling in between the cracks, where poverty and ignorance is rife. A piece of cloth does not stop people from taking drugs, poisoning themselves with alcohol or taking up with bad company. It does not stop them from stealing, lying and back-biting. In many cases, alhamdulillah, it has, but that is based on the intentions and circumstances of the person, and not the clothing.


If Sister Sarah states that she is a Muslim, and is making effort to stick to the true path, and tries to spend time with people who represent insha'Allah the best that Islam has to offer, that is enough for her to be my dear Sister in Islam.

The shariah is a beautiful thing Br. Qamar, and insha'Allah, one day, we will be worthy of it. However, if it is imposed on people who are not ready for it, you find that the weak are punished and the powerful get away scot-free, people are denied opportunities to help themselves by the very instruments that should be helping the less fortunate.

We have to improve ourselves to make ourselves worthy of it, otherwise, we'll see a repeat of what happen with 'political systems' that concentrate power in the hands of a few without accountability. Who can forget the luxurious dachas that the communist party officers used to live in while their people starved in the Soviet Union?
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Al-Qamar

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Re: Muslim woman tries to avoid the life of a spinster
« Reply #20 on: Jan. 06, 2011, 10:06 PM »

Salaams Al-Qamar,
Wa alaykum as salaam

I do appreciate the zeal with which you try and set higher standards for yourself insha'Allah, but there is a person here that you are talking to as well. Many of these comments would have really hurt me, or angered me, if they had been directed at me.
And that's why I said initially, it's not meant as an attack, but I'm sorry... one cannot say they are a "good Muslim", and yet openly disregard the clear commandments of Allah. It's not only a contradiction, but it's an insult to the deen and those that actually make the effort.

At best, say that you wish to be a good Muslim, and insha'Allah Allah will help you in this regard. But if you think you're already there (which is implied by clear statements) when clearly you're not (which is implied by what is portrayed), then there's little hope for you (and I'm talking in general, not to you specifically).

Islam is a practical religion that is meant to be lived. Neither you nor I have any idea about what it is like to be another person. If Sister Sarah is doing her best to hang on to her ideals, and to follow her dreams at the same time, we should support her. She does not need our lectures.
If her dreams or her actions cause the anger of Allah, and we have the knowledge to pass on to protect her from this, then yes, we *do* have to pass it on!

Consider this example... all the stories of the prophets in the Qur'an, do you learn about their ibadah, their daily way of life, their families, etc? No. The only thing consistent with each one is that they kept giving dawah to people. Revelation has now stopped, and it's up to us to carry this on. So I'm sorry, if someone is away from the path, it falls upon me to point out that they're away from the path... especially even more so if they think they're on the path!

Whether a woman wears a hijab or not (or a man grows a beard or not)  is not one of the most pressing issues in societies where people are falling in between the cracks, where poverty and ignorance is rife. A piece of cloth does not stop people from taking drugs, poisoning themselves with alcohol or taking up with bad company. It does not stop them from stealing, lying and back-biting. In many cases, alhamdulillah, it has, but that is based on the intentions and circumstances of the person, and not the clothing.
Granted, there are many other ills, but the hijab (or lack of it) leads to many ills too.

Consider this example; the scholars are agreed that salat for a female is *not* accepted if she is not wearing a hijab, and salat is obligatory upon all Muslims (of all the commandments, laws and revelation to have come down... the command of salat was the only exception in which the Prophet (saw) was called up to see his Lord and receive the commandment directly without any intermediary).

Any sister thus would don a hijab to perform her salat... and then something in her is telling her to take it off... what do you suppose that is? The need to display her beauty, to compete with people on TV, to show her adornments. This is the start of a path that leads to zina! I'm not saying that everyone who doesn't wear a hijab is a zaniya, but what I am saying is that the doors are opened.

If Sister Sarah states that she is a Muslim, and is making effort to stick to the true path, and tries to spend time with people who represent insha'Allah the best that Islam has to offer, that is enough for her to be my dear Sister in Islam.
If she makes an effort, then fine. But from my perspective, she's justifying *not* wearing the hijab (and is happy enough to pose without one), and she's also claiming music is permissible when it's clearly not. She claims to have a lot of Islamic knowledge, but I suspect (with good reason) for this not to be the case.

For one who is sincere in making an effort, they'd study their deen more than concentrate on their career. Allah (swt) has already guaranteed our rizq, but our protection from the fire hasn't been. Let's concentrate on the important stuff, eh?

The shariah is a beautiful thing Br. Qamar, and insha'Allah, one day, we will be worthy of it. However, if it is imposed on people who are not ready for it, you find that the weak are punished and the powerful get away scot-free, people are denied opportunities to help themselves by the very instruments that should be helping the less fortunate.
That's not the fault of the shariah, and I'm not imposing it on anyone. All I'm saying is to avoid giving yourself a label that has not been earned. To call yourself "one who submits to the will of Allah", and then to promote actions that contradict clear commandments is not becoming of one who calls themself that.

We have to improve ourselves to make ourselves worthy of it, otherwise, we'll see a repeat of what happen with 'political systems' that concentrate power in the hands of a few without accountability. Who can forget the luxurious dachas that the communist party officers used to live in while their people starved in the Soviet Union?
That's a political debate and has nothing to do with this


BTW, just to give a little bit of background to myself... I've only recently started to study Islam. I used to be really jahil in my youth, I didn't know a thing, only what culture had taught me. But alhumdulillah, a brother put me on the path and I started to seek knowledge... and the more I learned the more I realised I didn't know and how poorly I was living my life. Subhan'Allah, it's a shame that most people today don't even know what their deen is... most have not even read the Qur'an cover to cover, or know anything about the Prophet (saw), yet they can quote facts upon facts about western celebrities, etc.

It's a real shame... and this is not what Islam is.

Bottom line is, I'm not here to judge anyone, that's for Allah. All I'm saying is that it's not correct for someone to say they submit to Allah whilst at the same time they falling foul of the most basic rulings, and even arguing against them. If anyone wants to ignore the hijab and listen to music, fine, that's up to them. But don't say that this is from Islam, or this is acceptable for a "good Muslim"... that is what I object to.

Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatuLlah
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skhansj

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Re: Muslim woman tries to avoid the life of a spinster
« Reply #21 on: Jan. 06, 2011, 10:31 PM »

Salaam Alaykum Br. Qamar,
Thank you for taking the time to respond in detail. I think that we can all agree that you meant well, and that you were encouraging sister Sarah to better herself. May Almighty Allah accept our actions in this spirit.

I suppose the only thing that would object to is labeling oneself or another as a 'good Muslim' or a 'imperfect Muslim'. That hurts, as it strikes at the core of of many of our identity. It's also something that I would assume is the prerogative of Almighty Allah alone.  The ironic part is that it hurts those more who have a stronger identification with Islam than those who don't.

JZAK for your comments, and for your clarifications.

It is all too easy to misunderstand what is stated in emotionless back on white text on the screen, so we all have to exercise a little extra patience and understanding when interacting the forums on the Internet. May Almighty Allah give us the wisdom to speak what is true, and in the manner that is most pleasing to Him (Amen).

- Shahzad
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jannah

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Re: Muslim woman tries to avoid the life of a spinster
« Reply #22 on: Jan. 07, 2011, 06:49 AM »

wsalam,

I think we should probably end this discussion as it involves a lot of speculating. Perhaps discussing the concepts in the article before was OK because it was an article we were discussing, a prototype of an example of what some sisters are going through today. But now there's a real person involved and she's right here, so let's avoid backbiting and judging someone we do not know.

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