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Author Topic: Share your experiences  (Read 10093 times)

jannah

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Re: Share your experiences
« Reply #15 on: Feb. 17, 2009, 08:18 AM »

Salam,

Just a disclaimer... these are general comments, not specific to anyone and of course no one really knows the specifics of anyone's life here so we can be kind of be anonymous and general.


About income..

yes Allah can take it and destroy all of it in a single moment like the man with the two gardens in Surah Kahf. and just like this last recession has shown us wealth can be gone in an instant. still, i know for a fact i can go out and find work to provide for my family with the education, experience, references, and contacts i have. sure we all depend on Allah, but we have to tie our horse too. remember when there was a man who just sat around in the mosque doing nothing and another family was supporting him. Umar (ra) was soooo mad. he was like the family that is providing for him is getting double the reward and Umar himself went there and kicked the guy out and told him to go work!

so yes a husband later can become ill or lose his job later on, but if he has no job or inclination or variable thoughts about supporting a family (like all these idealistic ideas) it's going to cause a lot of problems in the future. do you know the number one thing people fight about in marriage? MONEY... yep that goes for many muslim couples too... money is a huge problem...and it's not even about trying to find a rich guy it's just that any sister and her parents are going to think about these things ahead of time. of course no one is saying they want lush mansions and jewels dripping off their arm, but every wife and kids deserve some kind of decent life, and in islam it is the responsibility of the HUSBAND to provide that. guys who don't feel like working or are "working" on become a billionaire should just not get married.

now all these guys who are like "oh Allah will provide, i'm going to be a millionaire in 3 years and so what if i don't have a steady income" i want to ask you honestly if you had a daughter right now and a guy came and wanted to marry her saying all that you would let him??? let me tell you right now you WOULD NOT. no matter how "religious" or "good" he is... he really isn't because he would not be able to fulfill the rights of his wife and family.

again if you can't afford to support a family then some scholars say it is not allowed for you to enter a marriage because this is a pre-condition.

uhhh steady jobs don't help us achieve what we want?? where did you hear that? almost everyone in the world lives in this way except that .0000001% of bill gates... and BY THE WAY there is only ONE Bill Gates in the world and all the guys who are like drop-outs or whatever and are like i'm going to be the next bill gates... cuz look he dropped out of college like me and started a business and i'm going to do that too...that's just ridiculous...just go look in the mirror. for 1 bill gates there's a billion poor idiots.

education makes a difference and i'm going to say it right now degrees make a big difference too. so a guy who is a high school dropout who wants to start a millionaire business and expects someone to marry him has to start getting real.

the example of finding out the wife couldn't bear children, as this is a husband's islamic right he does have the right to divorce at that point, just as she does if he can't support her financially.


About Islamic school:

That's a whole other debate but I was using that as an example. If you like we can say the need for groceries/diapers/shoes whatever.



About the sibling issue:

again it doesn't matter what the sisters are, even the way revert guys treat their natural non-muslim sisters can tell you a lot. it really has nothing to do with the sister or mother's religiosity but how he deals with them. it's about his behavior.


About angelina jolie:

that argument is very immature. and i guarantee you any girl beautiful or not would never accept marrying such a flighty/immature guy.


Mini-rant

is it because our parents as immigrants came here and have been successful as professionals that the next generation of guys have just become bums? i mean come on i sometimes think we need to send these guys to live in a slum in india for a month for them to realize what the real world is like. trust me when you get older you'll all of a sudden realize that no one is going to support you and you have to figure out where to get the money to survive. it's just ridiculous. i would just want no part of any guy who is so blinded to reality.

end-rant


About communication problems between men and women:

this to me does not sound like a communication problem. this is a financial goals/lifestyle compatibility issue. if someone has certain ideas of how they want their life to be and the other doesn't then they should not get married. khalas.


About the mahr

It's definitely an ugly business and could be indicative of someone who wants a different sort of lifestyle than you do, but sometimes mahr is a prestige/cultural thing like 'oh all my daughters have a mahr of this amount' or 'my daughter has a high mahr because she is valued'. Or they set the mahr to be paid at divorce at some ridiculous high amount to "prevent" the husband from divorcing her.

Families should ask for a reasonable amount that the brother can afford as it's supposed to be a gift and not some kind of bride-price. Brothers should also get a little more realistic than expecting parents and families to ignore all financial concerns and agreeing to $1 mahr.

Also, I don't know if it's fair to blame the daughter for her parents actions, but i can see why a person would be turned off by the actions of her family. 


aiite peace out...i'm going to go eat some ice cream :)
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Eemo

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Re: Share your experiences
« Reply #16 on: Feb. 17, 2009, 02:00 PM »

I'm sorry, but i dont agree with your view(s).
I'm not saying that i carry all the same thoughts that all the other men are thinking, but i do feel we are all doing ourselves a great dis-service by clinging to ideals.

I wont labor the point any further, as this could become an endless debate.

Hope you enjoyed your ice cream :)
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Muslimah21

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Re: Share your experiences
« Reply #17 on: Feb. 17, 2009, 03:43 PM »

hahahahahaa if you were married to angelina joli how on earth would you be relaxed and content? wouldnt you be worried 24/7 that some other dude was hitting on her, or as we are all aware of she is giving herself away? that is less stress? hahaha is thats your idea of a good marriage then goodluck with that.

no offense but i dotn knwo any sisters who only see pound signs, lol, money isnt everything and i am the one who is always sayign allah can take it away from you in a blnk of an eye, then what.... same with looks... what if you marry the prettiest women ever? she has an accident her face is mashed up, deformed, then what? you going to divource her? thats very shallow and typical way a man thinks.
i suppose that is why women ask for a man with money, because at least they can spend the money on fixing themselves up so they look liek her husbands ideal women! if any sisters actually do that i do feel sorry for them. but i do know it happens especially in the middle east, sigh!
men are sooo shallow!!!!!!


my parents are not successul professionals? lol far from it, tehy both work in factories, doign crazy hours and slaving away, my parents dont expect anythign from me, they havnt set me life goals, they say what i choose to do with my life is fine and that they would be proud of me if i become an assistant in a shop or a doctor. one thing i love about my parents they are humble and not focused on the dounia there are more important things for us to worry about.

see us arabs dotn have that problem, with mahr and dowri rubbish. i mean from what i haev seen in morocco its only what the groom can afford no ridiculus demands from the fatehr of the bride, so in  a way im thankful to grown up in that culture, all my parents care about is that he has some sort of job and that he will treat me well and look after me, more so lok after my heart and help me grow as an individual and that is more important then money which you can burn. dont you agree?
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Eemo

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Re: Share your experiences
« Reply #18 on: Feb. 17, 2009, 03:47 PM »

I was just making the pretty girl comment in response to Jannah's thoughts. That if the man felt he had to slave all day to meet the wife's demands, then he would want to come home to someone especially pretty.

And, yes, i agree whole-heartedly that beauty is only temporary. People grow old, accidents can happen, which is exactly why im not fixated on it.
That doesnt negate what other men are thinking, however.

All i was trying to do was put forward what the men out their are thinking, to try and resolve disconnects.
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halfmydeen

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Re: Share your experiences
« Reply #19 on: Feb. 18, 2009, 03:11 AM »

salam,

i deleted the last 3 responses. let's try to be civil to each other inshaAllah. we are learning from each other and it is always helpful to hear the other point of view even if you don't agree with it.

jazakallah khair brother eemo and everyone else who partcipated in the discussion.
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jannah

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Re: Share your experiences
« Reply #20 on: Feb. 18, 2009, 03:14 AM »

I'm sorry if you were offended bro. It is just my opinion. I'm sure you will find someone with more compatible views to you inshaAllah. Wish you the best of luck. wsalam
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Eemo

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Re: Share your experiences
« Reply #21 on: Feb. 18, 2009, 11:25 AM »

Its OK, i wasnt offended, but i appreciate the gesture nonetheless.
I do have a habit of getting too much into debates i suppose, which may give the impression that i was offended.

I should be more mindful of that in the future.

Wsalaam
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Muslimah21

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Re: Share your experiences
« Reply #22 on: Feb. 18, 2009, 03:42 PM »

ops sorry if i offened with my comment, sometimes im a little saracstic but nothign is meant of it, and i can tell you i wasnt being rude or mean. just soemtiems that is the way i come across in messages obviously becuase you cant see me or my expressions at which im usually laughing and smiling lol.
umm sorries again :D
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jannah

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Re: Share your experiences
« Reply #23 on: Feb. 27, 2009, 07:41 PM »

salam y'all,

I finally wrote that post on 'what muslim girls find attractive'. have a look when u have some time  ;D

http://jannah.org/blog/2009/02/27/what-do-muslim-girls-find-attractive/

ws
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Jeremy

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Re: Share your experiences
« Reply #24 on: Feb. 28, 2009, 03:57 AM »

hahaha... that was fun to read  :D
educational? I don't think so... it basically says that whatever you are or whatever you look like there is a woman who will like you the way you are, and if that's the case, I better not change a thing..lol
To answer your question about what men are looking for in women. In my experience I haven't seen it as diverse as that. Most guys want the same things in a woman, they just arrange their priorities differently. I can say that unlike most girls think, guys usually don't have looks at the top of the list. It's always there, but things like compatibility and brains may come before looks.
To summarize, I think most guys look for someone who can create a "home", and just like the prophet (pbuh) said "he feels happiness when he looks at her". I am not sure though how you can measure that in the material world!
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jannah

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Re: Share your experiences
« Reply #25 on: Mar. 01, 2009, 12:35 AM »

wsalam,

that's a nice way of saying it ma'shallah. i might post that over there as "anonymous bro" if you don't mind.
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Lavender

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Re: Share your experiences
« Reply #26 on: Mar. 05, 2009, 02:51 AM »

My experience was strange. I met a brother online, and we talked a lot, like 3 months before i told my dad. At the time, I was in "I do what I want" mode, so I couldn't be bothered to include my family. When i finally DID tell my dad, the brother and I stopped talking. After like a month, we ended the whole thing. not because of my dad. In fact, my dad was just commenting last night about how I let such a good brother slip away. No, it was because we just weren't compatible. I was a jokester, he was serious. I liked hanging with my friends and being stupid, he didn't. So it probably wouldn't work.
What I thought was funny though was that whenever we discussed money, I would say I didn't know what kinda dowry I wanted. I mean, I knew he wasn't all that rich, but he said he would do what he could to get what I wanted. It was like, I seriously had no idea. I asked my friends who recommended thousands of dollars or gold, but none of that felt right.
Even today, I have no idea what kinda dowry I would want. It's really weird.
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Muslimah21

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Re: Share your experiences
« Reply #27 on: Mar. 06, 2009, 01:38 PM »

lavender i understand where you are comign from.
i was thinking about the dowery the otrher day, i dont ahev a clue what i want. i mean what i do think of is perhaps the brother teachign me quran and helping me to learn it also helping me learn arabic, too things i want to do before i am 30. learn classical arabic and quran.
i think that is lovely but i know i will be pressured into askign for money and gold :( i dont have no need for gold, i dont wear jewlery even when i go to a sister party... i have one necklace and one ring thats it. i do need money i mean im a poor student but i just think its sort of selfish.. :S i dont know.
im confused too sis :S
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Jeremy

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Re: Share your experiences
« Reply #28 on: Mar. 07, 2009, 03:59 AM »

Regarding the dowery, it's common to have it split as "immediate" and "postponed". In middle class religious circles, the immediate dowery is usually symbolic, something like a golden coin. It's more for the memory and following the sunna than anything else. I think this custom is similar to the idea of the diamond ring they use in western cultures. The postponed dowery on the other hand varies more, and usually there isn't much debate over it. I've seen it mostly around $20K.
However, it's also customary in Middle Eastern cultures for the guy's family to bear all wedding expenses, and give the bride an extra "gift" during the wedding, usually some sort of gold neckless that costs few thousand dollars.
I hear it's different in India, that it's usually the bride's family that has to pay everything... Indian brothers are sooo lucky  ;D
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jannah

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Re: Share your experiences
« Reply #29 on: Mar. 09, 2009, 08:44 AM »

hmm i don't know of any indian muslim families where the bride's side pays for everything!! traditions seem to vary quite a bit across india. i do know that hindu tradition requires a dowry called jahaiz to be paid to the guy's family...things like a car, fridge, motorcycle, furniture all kinds of things are demanded. and sometimes the girl can be abused if they don't get the things they want. WACK! it does go on in muslim families too unfortunately. but for those who are normal...there are various traditions of who pays for what... like the guys side pays for her dresses and some jewelry... her side pays for a reception type think at the nikah which is at her place...and etc etc...
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