Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
|Israel and Barak|
|08/19/00 at 01:02:57|
|Israel, Palestinians Dismissive of New Summit|
By Mohammed Assadi
JERUSALEM (Aug. 18 ) - Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and a senior Palestinian negotiator Friday dismissed the chances of holding another Middle East peace summit soon because of continuing differences.
But Barak's office said President Clinton would meet the Israeli prime minister and Palestinian President Yasser Arafat separately when all three attend a U.N. Millennium Summit early next month.
Barak and Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat signaled the sides remained far apart after holding separate talks with U.S. envoy Dennis Ross, who is trying to revive peace talks after the failure of last month's U.S.-sponsored Camp David summit.
''The prime minister stressed that as long as Israel does not see signs of positive changes in Arafat's position, there will be no point in holding another summit,'' an official at Barak's office said.
Erekat told Reuters after meeting Ross at an undisclosed location in Jerusalem: ''The gaps between the sides are still there and it is still premature to talk about a summit.''
Asked whether they had discussed holding a new summit, he said: ''No such proposals were discussed.''
Later Friday in an interview on Israel's Channel Two Television, Barak blamed the Palestinians for the impasse.
''Until now I have not seen the flexibility. If there will be such flexibility and openness, there will be negotiations, and if not, we will know and every citizen will know ... that their government did everything in order to check whether it is possible to reach an agreement,'' Barak said.
The way to an agreement remains blocked by disputes over issues such as the fate of Jerusalem and the rights of Palestinian refugees.
Israel regards all of Jerusalem as its ''united and eternal capital'' while the Palestinians want East Jerusalem as the capital of a future independent state.
Ross, who arrived in the region Thursday, said little to the media during a busy day of talks which also included a meeting with Israeli President Moshe Katzav.
''Camp David was significant but there obviously are differences that have to be overcome,'' Ross said.
''My focus right now is meeting with each side ... to see what kind of conclusions they have drawn about the insights that developed at Camp David and then we'll see if there are ways to overcome the differences.''
Ross gave no details of Clinton's proposed separate talks with Barak and Arafat at the Millennium Summit.
ROSS TO MEET ARAFAT AFTER WORLD TOUR
Erekat said Ross would meet Arafat Sunday after the Palestinian leader returns from a world tour intended to win international support for his stance at peace talks, including plans to declare a Palestinian state as early as Sept. 13 -- the target date for Israel and the Palestinians to forge a final peace.
Arafat, who arrived in Bangladesh from Japan, received little encouragement in Tokyo. Japanese Prime Minister Yoshiro Mori urged him to delay a declaration until a peace deal is forged, a position Arafat has encountered in some other capitals.
Barak also says the Palestinians should declare a state only if the two sides agree to end their 52-year-old conflict. Clinton has also urged Arafat not to make a unilateral declaration.
Barak said Thursday the sides must do their best to forge a deal now because the ''window of opportunity is narrowing.''
''The conditions have never been better and it is doubtful they will be better in the future,'' he told graduates of the National Defense College in a speech Thursday night.
''If the Palestinian leadership is really willing to deal with the goal of establishing a state and solving the problems of its people, it must understand that the condition for doing so is to end the conflict with Israel.''
|Re: Israel and Barak|
|08/19/00 at 04:55:16|
|I got this via email...|
In Our Hands
by Joseph Sobran
ONE ISN'T SUPPOSED TO SAY THIS, but many people believe that
Israel now holds the White House, the Senate, and much of the
American media in its hands. This is what is known as an
anti-Semitic conspiracy theory.
The odd thing is that it is held by many Israelis. In an essay
reprinted in the May 27th issue of The New York Times, Ari
Shavit, an Israeli columnist, reflected sorrowfully on the wanton
Israeli killing of more than 100 Lebanese civilians in April: "We
killed them out of a certain naive hubris. Believing with
absolute certitude that now, with the White House, the Senate,
and much of the American media in our hands, the lives of others
do not count as much as our own..."
In a single phrase -- "in our hands" -- Shavit has lighted up the
American political landscape like a flash of lightning.
Notice that Shavit assumes as an obvious fact what we Americans
can say publicly only at our own risk. It's surprising, and
refreshing, to find such candor in an American newspaper (though
his essay was reprinted from the Israeli paper Haaretz).
The prescribed cant on the subject holds that Israel is a
"reliable ally" of the United States, despite Israel's long
record of double-dealing against this country, ranging from the
killing of American sailors to constant espionage and technology
theft. The word "ally" implies that the relationship exists
because it's in the interests of this country, though Israel's
lobby is clearly devoted to the interests of Israel itself, and
it's childish to suggest otherwise.
You expect that from the Israeli lobby; lobbies are lobbies,
after all. But it's unnerving that the White House, the Senate,
and much of the American media should be "in our hands," as
Shavit puts it. Bill Clinton, a lover of peace since his college
days, raised no protest when the Israelis drove 400,000 innocent
Lebanese out of their homes in "retaliation" for rockets launched
into Israel (wounding one Israeli) by a faction over whom those
400,000 had no control.
Congress, of course, was supine as usual at this latest
extravagance of Israeli "defense." Congress too is "in our
A recent article in The Washington Post likened the Israel
lobby's power to that of the gun and tobacco lobbies. But there
is one enormous difference. Newspapers like the Post aren't
afraid to criticize the gun and tobacco lobbies. They will say
forthrightly that those lobbies seek goals that are dangerous for
this country. They don't dare say as much of the Israeli lobby.
But much of the press and electronic media are "in our hands" in
a more active sense: They supply misleading pro-Israel propaganda
in the guise of news and commentary, constantly praising Israeli
"democracy" and ignoring Israel's mistreatment of its non-Jewish
minorities -- mistreatment which, if any government inflicted it
on a Jewish minority, would earn it the fierce opprobrium of our
No decent American would think of reducing American Jews to the
status of Palestinians in Israel. The idea is almost absurd. Yet
Americans are taxed to subsidize the oppression of Palestinians,
on the flimsy pretext that they are helping an "ally" in
America's own self-interest to be hated and despised by the whole
All this is interesting less for what it tells us about Israel
than for what it tells us about America. Frank discussion of
Israel is permitted in Israel, as Shavit's article illustrates.
It's rarely permitted here. Charges of anti-Semitism and a quiet
but very effective boycott will be the reward of any journalist
who calls attention to his own government's -- and his own
profession's -- servitude to Israeli interests.
Very few in America are doing anything to change this sorry state
of affairs. Shavit wrote his article in the desperate hope of
turning back his countrymen and his government from a morally and
politically perilous course. At least he can hope. It's harder
for us, when our own government isn't in our hands.
|Re: Israel and Barak|
|08/19/00 at 06:30:44|
[quote]The prescribed cant on the subject holds that Israel is a "reliable ally" of the United States, despite Israel's long record of double-dealing against this country[/quote]
Why does the US maintain such strong ties to Israel despite this above reality? It actually goes back to the promise of Allah to Ibrahim alaihis-salaam regarding who would inherit the Earth after him. There is a four tape series discussing this - which is awesome - called "The Islamic World - Where is it heading?" by Ali Timimi. You can order it from 'The Society for Adherence to Sunnah' in the US [email@example.com] or JIMAS in the UK [firstname.lastname@example.org]
|Re: Israel and Barak|
|08/19/00 at 16:47:14|
One time we were discussing the justified reasons for the Jews to occupy Muslim land in class. Our teacher was a Christian and her husband is a Jew. We all knew that but one brave kid in our class, (an agnostic, mind you), spoke out against them.
Our teacher got really mad but the kid just laughed and said, 'Look, I don't care. I know that I will be accused to being a racist. But the truth is the truth."
We all had to bear her wrath for the next two days. The average American doesn't even know what is going on with Israel and Palestine. Only the people in the intellectual circles know about it and those who are with the government. They don't speak out against them because they are too afraid or have vested interests in them. Even some of the Muslims don't know the truth and buy the garbage that the TV and the News feeds them.
I have been accused of being anti Jewish by Muslims whenever the discussion of Israel and Palestine comes up. "We are all humans and they have suffered." That's their response more or less. Even if you present them with historical facts of how Muslims have suffered and are suffering under the Israelis they change the subject or still hold on stubbornly to their views because they have been brain washed. This Israeli occupation of Muslim land is justified by the Holocaust. But no one remembers the millions of Muslim who were killed under Lenin. No one remembers their Holocaust.
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