Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
|where do we go from here ?|
|05/19/01 at 12:25:14|
|as salam o alaikum all,|
well i just heard a excellent khutba yesterday so wanted to hear what u all think about it..i'll summarise it from memory so bear with me in case i make some mistakes...(houston ppl it was obaid kazi who gave this excellent khutbah)
The basic premise of the khutba was 2 things
1. we need to move beyond fiqh differences (long history on it ..but the basic example that was used was shouting in the massajid over the moon sightings plus some internal houston problems)
2. this was the intersting point he made..he said that we in america at a stage where we have 3 options as a umma of where we can be..i'll summarise all 3 and lets see what you all have to say..Basically he used 3 examples of places where muslims have gone and result of muslim community there
a.) Spain --Muslims conquered it ..united Spain then split up into different kingdoms due to petty jealousy and greed..then muslims used christians (name mentioned was EL CID) ..to try and defeat other muslims..as a result off all the infighting it helped the non muslims to defeat the muslims and now we are left with no muslims in Spain rather empty masajids
b.) India---this was interesting story he proposed..that while the leaders may not have been the most practicing muslims the PEOPLE were because they adhered to the sunnah of the prophet.. and in the 17th and 18th century the foremost islamic thinkers came from this area.
c.) the final example was Malaysia --where islam came thru traders from Yemen as well as India..a peaceful conversion--the khateeb mentioned that whis is ideal community muslim leaders (i know i know president got some issues..) with strong muslims (i love malaysians so nice and humble ..)
What u all think ..where are we heading? there was more to this khutba but this is main relevent stuff
|Re: where do we go from here ?|
|05/19/01 at 14:39:18|
|salam zeyn "bhai"....|
i would add another option that was mentioned at our masjid about a year ago. we had a group of Bosnian ulema visiting and one of them gave out community some advice before he left. He said (paraphrase):
"I fear that the Muslim communities in America are making the same mistake that the Muslims of Bosnia made. We did not see any difference between ourselves and the serbs or the croats... we convinced ourselves and tried to convince them that we were the same people and that there weren;t any major differences between us. for many generations we did this... we married them, we adopted their habits, their customs, everything. And then you know what happened to us. our own neighbors, our own families turned against us because we were Muslims. no matter how much we tried to fit in, and no matter how much we looked, acted, and thought like them, we STILL were different - we were Muslim, and for that, millions of us were killed, our women raped, our houses looted, our masjids defiled. Do not delude yourselves. preserve your islam and do not compromise it for what they offer."
basically: we can not succumb to syncretism because no matter how much we delude ourselves into thinking that we are all the same and "it's all good," they will turn against us at some point - bosnia and kosova should serve as reminders for that. bosnia differs from spain because in spain you had a take-over from outside. bosnia was neighbor turning on neighbor.
at any rate, without getting into names, i see a few groups on the american muslim scene that are making this mistake that the imam mentioned. my hope is that they stop deluding themselves and the rest of the muslims. mind you though, i am not an isolationist by any means... i firmly believe in living in society and actively doing da`wah etc... i just do not think that syncretism and de-emphasizing our own unique islamic perspective is the way to go.
Wa Allahu `alim...
|Re: where do we go from here ?|
|05/19/01 at 20:03:28|
Nice point about Spain Zeyn, however, the muslims integrated themselves way too much with the Christians, and in the end the muslims themselves brought their own downfall. The muslims started to adopt the lifestyle of the Christians and that is how they fell, another problem was they became too weak to do JIHAD against the Christians and in the end what happened in Bosnia happened in Spain.
2) India, well acording to some history books, again we started to lick the boot of the Kufr, I've even read in a book that a certain muslim king said no to collecting zizyah from the Kufr, for further integration in the society. When muslims fall this low, then they deserve a kick in the teeth.
3) Malaysia, well thats another country gone belly up, many Malys are sound, however other evils are being committed openly in the coutry. The rulers have no real strength arnd are again bootlickers of the west. The people in power are slowly coming to the top like the the Kufr Chinese and Hindus. This is another country that will fall.
As brother Jawad rightly said about the situation in Bosnia, where neighbour turned on neighbour, people had friendship for years, and had marriges intermingled, however the verses of the koran can be NEVER wrong on saying about having strong friendship and having strong good ties with them, they are our enemies.
ALI IMRAN (3:28)
Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth
that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them,
taking (as it were) security. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the
AN NISAA' (4:89)
They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with
them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if
they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no
friend nor helper from among them,
AL MAA-IDAH (5:51)
O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to
another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not
AN NISAA' (4:144)
O ye who believe! Choose not disbelievers for (your) friends in place of believers. Would ye
give Allah a clear warrant against you ?
AL MAA-IDAH (5:80)
Thou seest many of them making friends with those who disbelieve. Surely ill for them is that
which they themselves send on before them: that Allah will be wroth with them and in the
doom they will abide.
AL MUMTAHANAH (60:1)
O ye who believe! Choose not My enemy and your enemy for allies. Do ye give them
friendship when they disbelieve in that truth which hath come unto you, driving out the
messenger and you because ye believe in Allah, your Lord ? If ye have come forth to strive in
My way and seeking My good pleasure, (show them not friendship). Do ye show friendship
unto them in secret, when I am Best Aware of what ye hide and what ye proclaim ? And
whosoever doeth it among you, he verily hath strayed from the right way.
AL MUMTAHANAH (60:9)
Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven
you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them.
Whosoever maketh friends of them - (All) such are wrong- doers.
The last one dosent that sound familiar.Bosnia, Kosovo etc etc
The evidence is there, in clear proof, that we can not have strong good ties with em, for example intermingling, telling our hearts secrets, not inviting them to Islam etc.. But we should have moderation it does not mean that we completly neglet them but what it does mean that whenever a good we muslims have they will get upset and whenever a tragedy befalls us muslims then they shall be happy.
|Re: where do we go from here ?|
|05/19/01 at 20:46:55|
|just a comment on the second point about india..the rulers were corrupt..the khateeb was refering to the common person..agree on your comments on india..as with malaysia yeah it was much better from the top a few years ago|
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