Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
|Riba Q Taking bank interest?|
|08/29/01 at 22:00:43|
A sister posed the following question to me
She has a savings account. The interest is given away to charity to keep her earnings halal. However she is going to buy a house via a mortgage soon. A mortgage involves paying interest, so could she save the interest she gets on her savings account to pay the interest that she will be charged on her mortgage???
My initial response was that riba is haraam so any dealings in riba must also be haraam. I was told that not many people today can afford to buy a house without the help of a mortgage.
What do y'all think?
|Re: Riba Q|
|06/09/01 at 09:48:35|
|Most people can't even afford a martgage. if you cant afford some thing you can't have it. khLASS.|
Any how taking riba, is a sin, giving it is a sin.
sin + sin =two sins.
they don't cancle each other out.
the riba contract of a saving account is a sin, no matter what you do with the money.
if you want to give charity, earn the money you give by hallal means.
Allah does not need your money.
A lot of people talk about mortgage like people can't live with out it, but it is a fact that its the richer people who have them.
most people in this country earn so little that no bank will even think about giving them one. do they live on the streets? NO!!!
they rent. so when some one gets a nice stable job, and earns enough for banks to except them, why do they think they need mortgage?
wisperings of shatan.... ... .. . .
|Re: Riba Q|
|06/09/01 at 10:21:37|
This is what Sheikh Munajidd from www.islam-qa.com said:
Can we give the interest from banks to the needy one?
Praise be to Allaah.
If there is a person who deals in riba (interest/usury), then repents and wants to get rid of the money he gained from riba, it is permissible for him to give it to the poor in order to get rid of it. A person can also do likewise if an amount of riba is put into his account by the bank, but this is not counted as sadaqah (charity), because Allaah is Good and only accepts that which is good and pure. As for continuing to deal in riba, this is not permissible, because it is one of the major sins (kabaa’ir), and taking it is tantamount to challenging Allaah and His Messenger, even if one is dealing in riba in order to give it to the poor.
|Re: Riba Q|
|06/09/01 at 10:24:32|
Regarding the mortgage issue, there was one Muslim company in the UK that gives out money through Islamic means (Kashif has the website address), and in the US there is lariba.com. I'm not sure if there are any other Muslim agencies in the US doing this.
|Re: Riba Q|
|06/09/01 at 13:30:41|
|assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah|
I think your friend should move her money from a savings account to a current account to avoid the headache of having interest paid in there. Some banks will have a problem with that. If her particular bank is one of those, she tells them either do as she requests or she will move her money to another bank that caters for what she wants. An acquaintance of mine did that just some weeks ago. Its a bit of an inconvenience for you, but hey, you're untangling yourself a little more from the riba web we're all prone to get/are caught in.
As regards buying a house, there are some schemes in the UK which you may like to consider.
The first of these is the Islamic Investment Banking Unit. Their website is at: http://www.iibu.com
It is owned by The United Bank of Kuwait and has two different schemes to 'help' you buy a house: Manzil Ijara & Manzil Murabaha, (both are briefly described on the website). However the IIBU does request a substantial deposit on the house in the region of 20% of the house price.
If she lives in the Manchester area she may want to contact an organisation called "The Ansar Foundation." Unfortunately, i don't have any of their contact details and don't know much about the way they run.
Two comments in closing:
1> The greater the number of people who decide to pursue a non-interest scheme in buying a house, the more the market will open up for us insha'llah. If banks see many potential customers out there, trust me, they will bend over backwards to offer us better products so that our money lines their pockets, instead of their rivals'.
2> I don't think we should sit happy relying heavily on banks to offer us these schemes to help us buy our houses. Its time that professional Muslims got their heads together and came up with an alternate scheme to help Muslims buy a house. What that is, I don't know.
At the end of the day we will only receive help from Allah, His Messenger and the BELIEVERS, that is, *us* helping each other out, not some riba institution.
Using the Manzil plans that are available should only be an intermediate solution for us - a starting step to get us out of the difficulties we are in at the moment. We should broaden our vision and think long term, and think of the community as a whole.
Unfortunately, too often as soon as a brother/sister gets married and settles down, they forgat about the struggle of other Muslims. They forget that there are people out there who need their expertise to make a way out for them.
We should not allow ourselves to fall prey to the trap of Iblis if Allah has blessed us with wealth & comfort. When you are in such a state, Iblis makes you forget who the true owner of your wealth is, and who the true controller of your affairs is.
|Re: Riba Q|
|06/09/01 at 15:51:20|
I had attended a workshop few months back on Islamic banking and Business. The shaikh basically ruled out all means of financing as Riba, including our very own Lariba.com. And he had evidence from the writings of early scholars on this. Allahu Alam. Nowadays even the mainstream banks are coming up with such systems, following these examples. They basically see no difference between their system and the system of Lariba.com and others. Citibank, HongKong Bank all have Islamic wings now.
He even told us not to keep ,much of our money in banks even in the checking account. Cuz if its substantial the bank is going to use it for its business. Of course there weren't many happy faces in the audience. We can't have credit cards as well, even if we pay our bills on time, cuz while getting the card we are basically signing a contract agreeing to pay interest. How can we sign a contract to do haram. Will you ever sign a contract that if you are not going to be able to pay your bills in time you will commit fornication 36 times(inna audhubillah)?
Of course there are need based situations as well. But when buying a house on Riba in case of a "necessisity" it is a necessary that, people must contend with the minimum which is required. Necessity doesn't mean convenient. So if your needs can be basically taken care of by a one bedroom , one bathroom house then you cant buy a two bedroom house. Remember that many of our muslim brothers live as refugess in tents and abandoned train compartments. Many, even though they are not refugees, live in a one living room cum bedroom cum dining room cum kitchen.
But the point he made more strongly was that muslim community is a very rich and prosperous community in the USA. And they are complete nuts in not getting their heads together and start their own businesses and corporations while they have the talent and the money to do so (Pakistani doctors are one example). Muslims can be richer and more the muslims prosper, the better for them and the Ummah. Of course there will always be muslims on whom Allah apportions lesser rizq then some of others. But since we are muslims we should be able to come up with systems in our communities to deal with that effectively.
|Re: Riba Q|
|06/09/01 at 16:17:54|
|Bismillah hir Rahaman nir Rahim|
Brother Kashif mentioned the Ansar Foundation. Although based in Manchester the Foundation has members from all over the UK. What happens is, an individual subscribes to the oraganisation by paying £10 a month. After one year, this entitles person to applying for a loan from the Foundation.
They have also recently started up an initiative enabling individuals to buy houses without a mortgage. They will buy the house and then the person will pay the Ansar gradually to buy the house back from them. But there is a deposit to pay initially.
I'll look up their contact details insha Allah.
|Re: Riba Q|
|06/10/01 at 01:20:50|
With regards to credit cards, Sheikh Uthaimeen (may Allah (SWT) preseve him) answered the following questions:
In my area one of the requirements for renting a car is to have a credit card. You don't have to charge anything on the card, you just must present it for safety precautions. When the car is returned you can pay cash and nothing is ever charge to the card. So, I would like to know, is it halal to get a credit card for this purpose.
Praise be to Allaah.
The basic principle is that interest-based transactions are haraam and it is not permissible to engage in them. This includes the conditions mentioned in the contracts for credit cards. In some countries they rely a great deal on these credit cards, and you can hardly find anyone who does not use them. We put the following question to Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen:
Credit cards include conditions based on riba (interest/usury) – if you delay payments, they charge an extra penalty. But in the place where I live in America, I cannot rent a car or a shop or use many other services unless I have a credit card. If I do not use a credit card, I will suffer unbearable hardship. If I commit myself to make the payments within a certain time limit, so that I do not have to pay the interest charges, will this allow me to have a credit card and thus relieve some of the hardship I am facing?
The shaykh, may Allaah preserve him, answered as follows:
If the hardship he is facing is certain, and the likelihood that he will delay payments is remote, then I hope there is nothing wrong with him having the credit card.
Do the conditions relating to interest make a transaction invalid or not?
If a contract contains an invalid condition, this does not invalidate the entire contract, for a number of reasons: (1) necessity, (2) because it does not really affect anything. The man thinks that he is going to make the payments before interest is due. Because this is more likely than the condition of having to pay interest, and because it is necessary – which is the main point – I hope that there is nothing wrong with it. We have a definite matter – necessity – and a matter which is not necessarily going to happen – which is delay in payment – and the matter that is definite takes precedence over something which may not even happen. And Allaah knows best.
Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen
|Re: Riba Q|
|08/29/01 at 21:40:21|
| Assalmualikum, |
I have much confusion in my bank dealings,
But I have no other way to keep my money, So I used to deposit in bank. Every
year bank is transferring interest on my deposit to my account.
What should I do with this interst, Is it permissible to take the interest from
bank or should I leave the interest in Bank.
I am sure if i leave the interest in Bank, they wil use it for anti-islamic
purposes, such as using for spreading Christianity.
So pls advice me what to do in this matter.
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