Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
|12/22/01 at 02:30:46|
|Can someone please enlighten me on the stance I have read |
that so many of you all are taking reguarding the Islamic governments? I
don't understand how you can believe that governments like Afganistan
are true Islamic governments. I am an open minded person and am willing
to listen to anything you have to say. I want to be able to at least
see your point of view, even if I cannot agree.
|Re: Enlighten Me|
|12/22/01 at 08:28:10|
|As Salamu Alayka,|
I do not know which government of Afghanistan you are speaking to, the Taliban, or the Interim Karzai?
Aside from all the rhetoric and guessing anyone can do from the sidelines, the inauguration of Karzai seemed to define for me the real issue and momentum of the current 'leadership' in the recently occupied territories of Afghanistan. In the background, overshadowing the whole of the new 'leadership' and the audience, was a cinema-screen sized photo of the past Northern Alliance leader Masood. I am pretty sure that was him, and that is his name. If that is not his name, then it looked identical to the photographs of the man who was leading the NA, that was killed by the people disguised as video interviewers, weeks before the Sept.11 incidents.
Really, regardless of who the photo was of, I just do not see the sanctimoniousness that belongs in the inducting of Islamic leadership there. From articles I have read on Uzbekistan, the government enforces the same kind of policy country-wide, of having to have photographs of their President in every public space. This is so un-Islamic that this act alone casts doubt, for me, about the authenticity and sincerity of some nations efforts alone, to practice an Islamic governance.
As far as other governments, who claim to be Islamic, one would be forced to go by a case by case discussion, as there is a great danger in lumping together Islamic countries and making blanket claims about their being Muslim-led or not.
Although I may not stick to this all the time, I believe that Muslims dirty laundry, aught naught to be hung out to dry uncleaned for kafr to see, whether it is individual Muslims, or whole groups of Muslims. This is not about image, or about ammunition, but rather about protecting the rights granted to us on account of taking shahada, and in keeping with the sunnah, where the Rasulullah, SAWS, did not like to hear of others faults, aside from having to make proper judgements in the case of deciding between parties with grievances, or in perscribing means of rectifying certain acts.
|Re: Enlighten Me|
|12/22/01 at 10:43:25|
Well, I'm not very well-informed on this issue, but as far as I know there *is* no proper Islamic government in existence. Some of the more knowledgeable members on the board should be able to explain this better, but take Pakistan for instance..
It's supposed to be "The Islamic Republic of Pakistan". So from this, one would suppose that this is a country which adheres to the Sharia (the Islamic government system). Nothing could be further from the truth. As a matter of fact, just yesterday I saw footage on the television of the Pakistani government's visit to China. They were all drinking champagne together. Very cosy. And Gen. Musharraf *always* shakes hands with foreign female guests. Now, for a so-called Islamic government, they're not setting a very good example, are they?
As I said, I'm not sure on this issue, and I'm open to correction, but I think first of all Islamic government should be defined before the question can be properly answered. Do you mean the government of a country that has a majority of Muslims or do you mean a government which trys to, or claims to rule by the Sharia? (more or less like the Taliban were).
|Re: Enlighten Me|
|12/22/01 at 11:00:58|
|Bismillah and salam,|
I think if you mean taliban we did have many discussions about whether they are islamic or not.
Yes most muslim goverenments is not islamic at all. Musharraf shakes hands with everyone, Arafat kisses them, who knows what those corrupt leaders do.
But I think it is important to understand in Islam a ruler does not rule over the people but between them.
Many felt that Taliban's mistake was that even though they were implementing sharee3a which is the islamic rule. FOr example, we are ordered to pray our five times for different reasons (see Cara's thread of questions) and when the call for prayer happens the Taliban order everything shut and would use a stick to make people go to prayer. Now many would say that makes no sense before doing proper da3wa to the people, a call to what is right by the right methods. That they have to help people understand sharee3a to love it and accept it, not to force it. But who are we to judge that the methods were wrong when there was a certain stricktness in Islam about things that we are obligated to do. It is different for different cases, like people who are new to islam, or the sick or elders or wahtever. But generally, they also didn't rule over the people they had a shura, which is a consesus form of goverenment compromising of respect people in the community for differnt reasons (scholars, elders,etc)
I find it disheartening that when we have those leaders that are not even trying to rule islamically do something good everyone is so thankful and saying they are finally stp up and doing a good thing, and when people are trying to implemnt something good but make mistakes, all we can see are the mistakes.
We have many scholars from other countries who went to see what the real issues were there and they came back to say that it was a country torn after war and it is hard to have a proper safe building for anyone to study not just the women. Regardless, he did see a woman's medicine college. So is everything we hear on the news true? No. We just have to accept that although I am muslim i have to abide by this countries rules for like say paying taxes when I don't believe in them, and as such we must let other counties try to establish a proper islamic governemet in their own time and trials and errors not criticized and forced to change by someone who doens't even know the full truth of living there.
I read today 70 journalist came back empty handed after going to a village trying to get dirt on taliban from the villagers. They all had missed taliban and the old people said it was the most peaceful tiem and security for their possesions they ever had. Could it have possibly been the start of a good thing?
|Re: Enlighten Me|
|12/26/01 at 17:03:12|
There is no doubt that Afghanistan Government under Taliban was a true Islamic country. This was and is almost unanimious opinion of the Islamic scholars. Unfortunately it was not given respite to settle down to tackle various problems facing the country.
At least they removed lawlessness from the country.
What will be the situation under the new imposed system of Government no one can say or predict. But I am sure that day is not very far when the Afghanis will remember the Taliban rule in kind words for I am equally sure the warlords will revert and show their true colour of infighting and savageness.
As for the picture, yes it is of Masood. It is not uncommon of seeing pictures hanging on the wall of leaders of Islamic countries in each country event though it is forbidden. But then who cares?
|Re: Enlighten Me|
|12/28/01 at 15:03:02|
|as salaamu alaykum,|
There is no doubt that Afghanistan Government under Taliban was a true Islamic country. This was and is almost unanimious opinion of the Islamic scholars. [/quote]
Unfortunately we are unable to get a clear picture of the Taliban and their practices here in the United States because of the way media outlets cover the subject. There are certain things often times associated with the Taliban -- depriving women of education, capital punishment without fair trial, things like that - which have *nothing* to do with Islam.
I think we need to be very careful about statements like this when there is just so much misinformation out there about the Taliban. People may get the wrong idea about what a 'true Islamic government' really is.
For more info on this, check out the Taliban discussion list: [url]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taliban_info/[/url]
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