A R C H I V E S
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
|04/10/02 at 16:21:25|
What do you like about the fairy tale?
What do you dislike about it?
|04/10/02 at 20:32:22|
Fairy tales ---- they are all true ......like cinderella .... most girls clean cook and stuff and think their the maids and stuff but one day a HANDSOME prince will marry u and take u away ;D
|04/10/02 at 23:33:30|
|[slm] hmmm yeah most girls cook and clean and slave away as usual, along with taking up the role of islamic activism and then do their handsome princes recognize them....... nooooooooooooooooooooo... even when you bash them over the head with your glass slipper... hah!|
ok do i sound bitter... ;) it's ok have a  and don't let your little girls watch that stuff... let them read the story of nussaiba a real WARRIOR in islam...
|04/10/02 at 23:33:47|
|04/10/02 at 23:55:16|
|[quote]even when you bash them over the head with your glass slipper... hah! [/quote]|
I agree, no good comes out of these stories, and too much bad.
|04/11/02 at 01:13:19|
I grew up on fairy tales. Now I get to watch them every day and have a great chance to teach while doing it. With my own kid I was able to tell them that the cooking and cleaning are part of life. and a major part of your job if you choose to be a stay at home wife or wife and mother. (My choice)
And don't we all kind of think there is going to be a prince in our future. use fairy tales are a conversation starter. Like "wouldn't it be fun to always live happily everafter" Or more to the point " Wouldn't it be boring to live like that. Never any troubles problems or fights."
I missed the opportunity to tell my girls the real use of the glass slipper, ([color=Green][/color] where were you 20 years ago Jannah?
Anyway, I know there is a lot of bad things on TV and in the movies but they can also be ways to start talking with the kids.
Kathy, I guess you know how much I like the Rogers and Hammerstein version. And I kind of like the newest one . Cant remember any ones name except I think the Cinderella was played by Mandy and the cast is very diverse.
|04/11/02 at 05:42:52|
I used to like Cinderella because she finally "showed them" and got her revenge (but she was so sweet she forgave of course). I just like that she finally got the power to be in a position of revenge.
I used to like stories like that. The other one I liked was "Donkey Skin" and I'm sure it had other names as well, where the father kicks his youngest daughter out because she told him she loved him like fresh meat loves salt... anyone? and then the prince marries her and she has a feast with no salt and invites her father....
I used to HATE stories with scary parts: Sleeping Beauty, the Beauty and the beast, I really hated Snow white, there were so many stories that were really nasty and scary, I don't know why they thought they were suitable for kids.
|04/11/02 at 05:57:34|
Well i think fairy tales are exactly that, they dont exist, nothing like that ever does take place.
But in Cinderella i like the fact that good people will always get what they deserve at some point in their life.
Oh yes, and i like the little fat mouse, Gus. :-*
|04/11/02 at 06:48:56|
[quote]I used to HATE stories with scary parts: Sleeping Beauty, the Beauty and the beast, I really hated Snow white, there were so many stories that were really nasty and scary, I don't know why they thought they were suitable for kids. [/quote]
Beauty and the Beast? :o Beauty and the Beast? :o Scary? :o
That is one of the loveliest fairy tales around! Subhanallah :)
I mean... the girl with so much beauty within, managed to help a man, see who he really is... that his heart can be filled with love, and kindness, consciousness, thoughtfulness and peace... she managed to help him cool his rage, his anger, his hatredness ... cos, she has the strength of the spirit inside her... the spirit that moves so firm and strong, yet soft and gentle, who moved another soul to look within himself...
Then, the beast change... for the change of his physical state from an ugly beast to a handsome prince is symbolic to the change of a cold stone heart to a heart that welcomes light, purity and goodness... the heart who even changed his physical state... others see him as a beautiful person.. doesn't a person with a qalbun salim (good and sound heart) have light with them then those who do not?
Ok, Ok.. so I'm getting a bit too melodramatic ;D
ANywho... I think I've said this before.. but between Sleeping Beauty, Snow White and Beauty... I think Beauty's got the better Prince.. and prolly, a more enduring, lasting and fulfilling marriage.
I mean.. Beauty sacrificed a lot... but Snow White and Sleeping Beauty? Well, they just slept on it... then voila!
Too good to be true.. too good to be true. :P Easy come, easy go....
I mean.. a man suddenly falls "in love" with a woman in a coffin?
A man who who crossed the seas, went through a jungle of thorns to marry a 118 year old lady?
Puh leessssss! ;) :P
"The Critic" Barr
P.S. Jannah.. I think your bitterness caught on me ;)
|04/11/02 at 07:12:11|
|04/11/02 at 08:14:23|
I remember a while back on the old board Attia put up a great article on the psychological effects of these "fairy tales", romance novels, etc on the minds of women, and especially Muslim women. It was really an eye opener. The whole premise of these stories are non Islamic to begin with. The Prince is the solver of all the girl's problems..."Living happily ever after" is the dream. If this is the kind of stuff we feed into the minds of 3,4,5,6,7 year olds, then no wonder by the time they are 15 or so they are more than ready to meet their "Prince charming", and in some cases would develop crushes, that lead to pre marital relationships and the devastating after effects.
I think we need to cultivate an awareness in the younger generations that is apart from these Western concepts of love, beauty (have you noticed how "undiverse" all these characters are?), and true happiness (it lies not in finally finding "prince charming"!) .
Mary I have to respectfully disagree with you, I don't think we should use them as learning tools either, there's plenty of examples as Jannah pointed out that we could focus them on...It is at that young age that we need to plant the fertile seeds of Islam.
Having said that:) Barr I love your analysis of beauty and the beast ;)
|04/11/02 at 08:41:20|
| [slm] I have been mulling this over for some time now, not only the Cinderella story but most others too and have decided that they need to be modified (somtimes subtly and sometimes drastically) in order to conform with how kids think today.|
1. Case in point being "Hansel and Gretel". No sooner do I get into the story when my kids pipe up with questions such as "why did the father accept the step mother's cruelty toward the children, etc., etc." I had to leave out certain parts and modify other areas of the story to make it more appealing to the children. What's the point of a "Bed Time" story when it petrifies the kids???
2. The very idea that you have to be "beautiful" in order to be seen as someone with a good heart is also disconcerting. In most stories the cruel step sisters are "ugly" and the "good" character's physical appearance is dwelt upon significanlty. This does absolutely nothing for young girls confidence in themselves. They use these descriptions as a yard stick for themselves, leading to the idealogy that if you are not "slim, blonde and blue-eyed" you do not "qualify" for the attentions of a prince (??).
3. Which leads me to my 3rd point. The idea that your life is only fullfilled, or that you can only attain happiness if your prince rides in on his white horse and "saves" you. Are we teaching our children (girls especially) to be independant (Like Khadija RA) or to be spine-less like the "heroines" depicted in these stories???
I know these stories are not meant to be taken "oh so seriuosly"...but young minds are shaped by these (and other) stories and we should seriuosly review whether we actually WANT to continue reading them to kids.
There are Alahumdulillah a lot of children's stories with a lean toward the Islamic morals and ethics and we should consider choosing these above the "CLASSICS".
The second alternative would be "Islamic Stories", such as "Pious Women in Islam", The Prophet's (SAW) Life, Stories of the Prophets, etc etc.
Just an opinion :)
|04/11/02 at 09:07:28|
Well said Maliha & Bismilla! :)
|04/11/02 at 21:17:35|
I know this article is not specific to fairy tales but the point of getting ideas from such outlets is obvious.LOVE OR DESIRE
>In Bahrain, a teenage princess ran away from her family, her home and country forever, putting her life in jeopardy in order to marry an American marine she hardly knew. She made a decision, that she can never take back, to live a life of exile and sin. If asked why she did this, she would naturally say she did it for "love".
>Where in the world, are the Muslim youth getting their ideals about love, marriage and family? Are we turning to the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet, sallallahu alaihi wa sallam? Unfortunately, we do not?
>In the Indian subcontinent, we're turning to Indian films; in America and possibly the rest of the world, we're turning to Hollywood.
>Bombay, a famous mainstream Indian film, features a Muslim girl who falls in love and ultimately marries a Hindu boy. At the beginning of the film, she is shown in niqab. By the end, she is dressing like a Hindu. After her family refuses to allow their marriage, the girl runs away and does not speak to them for six years. At the end her parents come to her and all are happy.
>Hollywood, one of the largest influences in the world, plays a huge role in the formation of concepts about love, marriage, and family. These films portray men and women who are "in love". And yet, often times the individual they "love" will be someone they only just saw or spoke to briefly. Suddenly, however, they are willing to lose their spouse, their family, their job, their life, even their Lord. It is, therefore, more correct to say that they make these sacrifices because their desires has become their God.
>Allah speaks of these people when He says: [interpretation of the meaning]
>Then do you see such a one as takes as his god his own vain desire? Allah has knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart (and understanding), and put a cover on his sight. Who, then, will guide him after Allah (has withdrawn guidance)? Will you not then receive admonition? (Surah 45, verse 23)
>But yet these very same people that Allah has described in His book as most astray have become our example and ideal. In 1998, Titanic, grossing more than 1 billion dollars I sales worldwide, became the most popular movie across the globe. The story features a young girl of age 17 who is engaged to be married. After meeting and ultimately falling in love with another man, the young girl cheats on her fiancé and disobeys her mother. Both the mother and the fiancé are shown as superficial in order to make her disloyalty more acceptable.
>The messages of these films are very penetrating. The most powerful message is: if you sacrifice for "love", all will be well in the end. In other words, if you disregard your religion, your family, your God, following only your desires, you will be rewarded in the end.
>If we look to America, we can see the clear effects of these misshapen concepts. Why has divorce reached the unprecedented rated of 40-60%? I believe the answer lies in the misconstrued definition of what true love and marriage actually is. The movies feature the wedding as the end of the movie, and thus marriage is seen as the end of a love story, rather than the beginning.
>What effect does this have on our society, on our youth, in particular? Who are the victims of these misconstrued ideals? What is the basis of the "love" portrayed in these movies? What criterion will young Muslims affected by these images use when choosing a spouse? Will they follow the Sunnah of the Prophet, sallallahu alaihi wa sallam, who says the one who marries for deen is blessed? Or, will they base their choice on an empty, fleeting attraction disguised as "love"?
>If the youth began to choose their spouses based on this ephemeral emotion rather than on deen, what effect will that have on the Ummah as a whole? Will not more youth be forced to cut ties with their families (assuming they do not agree)? Will not more children be raised far from Islam?
>Thus, we should be aware and guard ourselves and our children from this deceptive tool of Satan. Allah describes those people who only follow their desires numerous times throughout the Qur'an. Let us not be among those who Allah describes as most astray and let those not become our ideals. [interpretation of the meaning]
>Who is more astray than one who follows his own lusts, devoid of guidance from Allah? For Allah guides not people given to wrongdoing? (Surah 28, verse 50)
>By Yasmin Mogahed, College student
>Courtesy 'Al-Jumuah' magazine
|04/12/02 at 00:48:24|
The elusive but perfectly fitting shoe :-/
|04/12/02 at 01:38:42|
|as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah,|
When I was younger Jannah bought me this book called [url=http://www.nait.net/childrn1.html]The Princess who Wanted to be Poor[/url] - a story that I lovvvvvvvved then, and that I still love to this day. It is *definitely* what I call a Muslim fairy tale :)
Here's a bit from the story just to tempt you to buy it.....
[In the royal stables]
"I never thought that a princess would think so highly of me as to agree to marriage," he continued, his brown face turning pink with embarassment. "Be sure that your suffering can be equalled only by my own, for I never have seen a woman like you, and your actions today, which have brought on this grief, have also secured my love for you."
At once he bit his lip and seemed near crying. "Even as I tell you this, I know I must try to forget you and you must forget me. Forgive me for speaking."
Now Amar looked the more miserable of the two, angry at himself for having said things that were no doubt improper since marriage for the two young people appeared impossible. He found that every moment brought increased torture to his love-stricken heart.
Mayeda had stood quite speechless as he talked, her left hand poised forgotten on her horse's neck, all her soul in her eyes. The breeze freshened through the window and caused the ends of the lavender scarf she wore about her face to ruffle about in the air. The picture she made was so utterly captivating that Amar felt compelled by his belief in Allah to drag his eyes away and stare at the haystrewn ground.
"Can't you try?" whispered she.
"Try what?" demanded Amar, in frustration.
"Try to convince my father!"
Amar's face twisted in pain and pleasure at the charming creature who still grasped at hopes for their marriage. He felt that in her eyes he must be greater than any prince alive, and yet here he stood with holes in his shoes! He filled his lungs with a deep breath and mentioned the name of Allah with reverence.
"I heard you say that you wished your mother were here," he said to her. "I take it that she was a pious woman. Well then, I will tell you what she would have probably advised us: to seek help in patience and in prayer, and truly it is hard save for the humble minded."
Mayeda gasped, for truly her mother always quoted from the Qur'an when advising her.
"Dearest lady," said Amir, "I cannot tell you what is in the future, but we must both be patient and pray for what is best for our souls. Be patient and good to your father, make all your endeavors for Islam, and may Allah Most Gracious grant us both the kind of happiness that comes with belief."
Mayeda nodded rapidly in agreement, all the while her face wet with tears. Even the little slave boy's lips were quivering with all the sadness about him, even though he didn't really understand what was going on.
Two donkeys were put into Amar's possession, and he, with trembling fingers, prepared them for the journey.
Mayeda fled back, broken hearted, to her bedroom.
Amar led the donkeys into the afternoon sunlight where he met his father, and together they rode out of the twinkling marble palace gates.
Is that the end of the story? Will Amar and Mayeda ever be together ???
I know you want to read it now ;D
|04/12/02 at 01:42:11|
|04/12/02 at 03:08:35|
|wow that almost sounded like those syrian soap operas i used to watch back in dimashq ;) |
uhh can i just say that the book is soooooooooooooo much better and not really that uh dramafied...
back to syrian soap operas:
there was this great episode where these husbands were outside playing cards next to the pool and the wives were inside hanging out in the living room. one of them accidentally left the baby monitor outside on the husbands table. all of a sudden the husbands in their bravado started relating how they met their wives and how their wives so fell all over themselves for them.. like one guy was a cashier in a store and the girl kept coming in returning things and batting her eyes...another time the husband was on a bus and the girl came and sat next to him and then begged him to carry her suitcases later etc...
and the wives kept getting madder and madder and then they showed it from the wives side... really hysterical... then all the wives go out and start yelling at their husbands and then they all collectively push all the husbands into the pool!!!
now that's what i call entertainment... and all in arabic too :)
|04/12/02 at 06:36:18|
|That reminds me of a McDonald's advert jannah. This guy's parents-in-law have come over with dinner, and he goes upstairs to say hello to his baby kid. His wife shouts at him "John come down for dinner..." and he says to the kid "yuck, granny's bought over dinner. But clever Daddy went to McDonalds first." |
And the baby monitor is on all the time! hehe.
|04/12/02 at 07:05:36|
| [slm] Kashif that is TOO funny. Typical in-law story. :) Barr - as much as I adore ur analysis of Beauty of the Beast.... I beg to differ. :) It used to be my one and only favorite disney movie that I would watch almost daily!.....Until one day, my law prof. at school went on this nasty tangent about the realities of disney.... and subhanna'Allah after looking into it some more - I have come to the conclusion that they are a sick bunch of people who enjoy planting distorted seeds into the vulnerable minds of children - who later grow up, only to act on those perverted ideals that are instilled within them. Beauty and the Beast is your perfect example of the fairytale that supports battered wife syndrome for instance ;)..... What better message does it send across than, regardless of how much bigger, uglier, meaner, etc your prince charming is... just put up with him regardless of how bad it gets and eventually he'll turn into a handsome prince and u'll live happily ever after. :) THEN....ironically you have people like dr.phil psychoanalyzing children and others on oprah..... little do they know how, if the root of the problem isnt severed, it'll never go away..... |
*sigh*...anyway, i'll stop now, but ideally i'd love the story - however when u look behind the scenes...and the small messages being sent out to kids - its nauseating. thats my two cents on the bitter realities of this dunya... :)
Take care folks, Fi aman Illah,
|04/12/02 at 07:57:14|
okay true that's a really weird excerpt.. but this part *always* cracks me up:
[quote]Mayeda had stood quite speechless as he talked, her left hand poised forgotten on her horse's neck, all her soul in her eyes. The breeze freshened through the window and caused the ends of the lavender scarf she wore about her face to ruffle about in the air. The picture she made was so utterly captivating that Amar felt compelled by his belief in Allah to drag his eyes away and stare at the haystrewn ground. [/quote]
|04/12/02 at 08:08:30|
Okay maybe i'm the only one who is charmed easily but I loved that excerpt Se7en :P Inshaallah I'll buy the book "for my li'l sister" and read the rest of the story with her :)
|04/12/02 at 09:20:36|
:o[quote]..... What better message does it send across than, regardless of how much bigger, uglier, meaner, etc your prince charming is... just put up with him regardless of how bad it gets and eventually he'll turn into a handsome prince and u'll live happily ever after. [/quote]
ha ha... sadly this can be true!- or at least many of us are still hoping..... ;)
[quote]The picture she made was so utterly captivating that Amar felt compelled by his belief in Allah to drag his eyes away and stare at the haystrewn ground. [/quote]
Whew.... [i] says Kathy holding on to the seat of her chair, wondering if she is having a hotflash[/i]... I gotta know! Did they marry? :'(
Anyone ever read the Paper Bag Princess?
I do think Mary is right about using the fairy tales as teaching tools. I believe she meant that she is pointing out the negatives and the positives of the stories.
There are many postives of the Cinderella Story. Despite all pressures of her step mom she contines to obey and respect her and do her bidding. So many a scholor has told us to patiently persevere in trials. Hey she is an unmarried virgin- not like she could run away from home and set up her own apartment- its not the late 21 century! Instead she patiently persevers.
Cinderella is never described as a beauty- in fact just the opposite- a dirty, ragged, lower class kid! the Prince must have seen something in her character- because every beautiful maiden from the land and beyond is at his feet!
They do not date!- except for the one dance! They get their look and decide to marry!
I like the story as a whole. A poor girl- who has been told that she is ugly and worthless- knows in her heart that this is not true, yet she remains kind and patient. She is not validated by the Prince- her father had told her this, and she had to know this because only a very secure girl would have the guts to attend that ball!- and it's not the clothes that make her confident- it is her inner sence of confidence.
;-)On the flip side- there is the Prince- who few talk about. - hmm.... I'm going to post this in the Guys sectiona and see what they have to say.
|04/14/02 at 01:17:14|
so u all decided to post right after my post huh :P joking
|04/14/02 at 09:49:35|
So, will we ever find out what happens to mayeda or amar? please tell us sister seven!!!!
or better yet, please tell us where we can get the book so we can pass it on to other little girls who will then benefit from an islamic fairy tale, oh and so we can find out the ending too. ;)
|04/17/02 at 17:51:24|
|as salaamu alaykum,|
hehe.. I knew people would get hooked ;D
You can buy the book here:
[url]http://www.nait.net/childrn1.html[/url] [it's the fourth book down on the page]
Let us know what you think once you read it! ;)
wasalaamu alaykum :-)
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board