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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
|04/23/04 at 17:52:58|
Top 10 Things NOT to do at Salaatul Jum'ah:
10. Put money in the donation box and expect change to pop out.
9. Run out of the Masjid shouting "DAJJAAL" at the top of your lungs.
8. For brothers: Come into the brothers' main prayer hall holding a sister's hand.
7. For brothers (again): Come into the brothers' main prayer hall holding a BROTHER's hand.
6. Have "halaal" and "non-halaal" sections in the Masjid's fund-raising food sale.
5. Make Wudu' at the water fountain.
4. Suggest that the Khutbah title be changed from "Etiquette of Khutbah", to "Modesty in Pop Stars: A Tribute to Madonna".
3. Break your Wudu' right bang in front of the Imam, and then look around non-chalantly as he starts to choke on the fumes.
2. Distribute flyers for your new restaurant, with LLBO written at the bottom of each flyer in BIG BOLD LETTERS.
AND THE NUMBER ONE THING NOT TO DO AT SALAATUL-JUM'AH IS...
1. Applaud the Imam for his Qirat, and DEMAND an encore!!!!!!!
|04/23/04 at 21:03:10|
I think doing number 7 is ok! :P :P :P :P :P
In many Muslims societies men kiss each others hands to show respect (e.g. north africa), and not drawing your hand away after shaking another mans hand is a sign of love and respect for that person. It is common to shake-and-hold hands for a while when you meet someone dear to you after a longgggggggggg time.
This increases love and brotherhood amongst Muslims. The love and respect fi sabillilah that comes in ones heart when meeting pious Muslims is very distant from shahwaat.
|04/24/04 at 20:36:12|
About point 7, I remember this one place I went for jumah (the bowling alley), and these 2 guys kissed after the prayers. :o On the cheeks. I believe the proper term for it, is the Arab tri-kiss. I wonder if there is a desi version? ???
|04/25/04 at 10:39:32|
|04/25/04 at 17:06:55|
for non-canadians, non-ontarians:
LLBO is liquor licensing board of onatrio. if a restaurant serves alcohol, it has to have a certificate from LLBO.
who wrote that list anyway? very disturbing and not funny. sorry JO.
|04/25/04 at 17:31:26|
LLBO is the liquor licensing board of onatrio, who give permission to restaurents to serve liquor to customers. BUT the sad thing is that too often you see ads with HALAAL written on top and at the bottom they also have LLBO writen next to the restaurents name.
|04/25/04 at 17:50:10|
ahhh i'm sorry guys...no seriously, I am.
I didn't write it, I thought it was funny, that's all.
As for the whole LLBO thing...Some of those businesses that sell halaal food are not owned by muslims. So if they have a liquor license, there's nothing wrong with it. You don't have to eat there if you choose not to. There are countless restaurants like that, and I find people complain all the time...think about the limited range of choice we have in the first place. It's not so bad that someone wants to make a buck by catering to a muslim clientele, without having to lose their original client base. Especially if these people aren't muslim. Now if they're muslim, that's a whole other situation entirely. But one more thing, don't be fooled by the Muslim waiters/waitresses...sometimes they just wkrk there, and the place is owned by a non-muslim. There are so many times that we head out to eat, and we agree on some place, and there's always one person who says "but they sell alcohol!!!" Okay, they sell it, doesn't mean we have to consume it. At the same time these people are okay with buying sundaes at McDonalds...the logic doesn't flow for me.
Now I'm going to get shot down, and it's cool...because I'd like to hear the other side of it.
|04/25/04 at 18:11:49|
|04/25/04 at 21:03:23|
i see your point sis JO. but it is not this simple. we, as muslims, are not to associate with alcohol from near or from afar. it is not enough just not to drink it. we are to stay physically away from it, if we can help it.
there is a hadeeth that specifically mentions that wine and everyone who deals with it are cursed- those who drink,serve, make, sell, buy, carry it or profit from it are included. this does not explicity mentions the ones who are sitting in a place where it is served, but would you want to be around so many people who are cursed? if a coffee house sells marijuana to its customers (not that it is legal yet in canada) , would you still go there saying that you don't have to buy the marijuana?
there are many people who are not muslim who don't go to places where alcohol would be served. it is a personal choice, and if we can respect that we sure should be able to respect muslims who choose to adhere to their religion.
[quote]At the same time these people are okay with buying sundaes at McDonalds...the logic doesn't flow for me.[/quote]
sorry, you lost me there. is there some alcohol in those sundaes???
|04/25/04 at 22:53:03|
[quote author=JustOne link=board=bebzi;num=1082757179;start=0#6 date=04/25/04 at 17:50:10]As for the whole LLBO thing...Some of those businesses that sell halaal food are not owned by muslims. So if they have a liquor license, there's nothing wrong with it. You don't have to eat there if you choose not to. There are countless restaurants like that, and I find people complain all the time...think about the limited range of choice we have in the first place. It's not so bad that someone wants to make a buck by catering to a muslim clientele, without having to lose their original client base. Especially if these people aren't muslim. Now if they're muslim, that's a whole other situation entirely. But one more thing, don't be fooled by the Muslim waiters/waitresses...sometimes they just work there, and the place is owned by a non-muslim. There are so many times that we head out to eat, and we agree on some place, and there's always one person who says "but they sell alcohol!!!" Okay, they sell it, doesn't mean we have to consume it. At the same time these people are okay with buying sundaes at McDonalds...the logic doesn't flow for me.
Now I'm going to get shot down, and it's cool...because I'd like to hear the other side of it.
If a place is not owned by muslims, I would have serious doubts about their niyah. Now if a joint is run by muslims and is selling alcohol, thats entirely another story. You see, selling alcohol is WORSE than selling haram meat because of the curse of Allah on people dealing in alcohol. So if a muslim can sell alcohol, which is uncontrovertibly HARAM, why would they care about the source of the meat they are selling? I guess a little amusing incident recounting is in order.
So this persian place we went to eat and they had a little bar on the side. I had a bad feeling but still ate 'cause a friend had insisted that the place was 'clean'. Anyways, turned out the place was not all that clean after all and the meat was suspect. Regardless, a muslim friend later took his newly wed (the wife was as FOB as they come) to the place without realizing that it was the belly dancing night. So this belly dancer comes to the table showing her skills and stuff, lol. You can imagine the scene that was created (yeh kartay rahain hain aap shaadee say pahlay). Anyways, the point is, if someone is selling alcohol, you can't trust them with your food, you just can't trust them in anything. That goes for airlines too, like emirates, which serve liquor inflight.
As far as going to macdonalds is concerned, well, they don't serve alcohol I presume, and a section of muslims regard meat over there as ok.
Nevertheless, before invoking the curse of Allah on muslims selling alcohol, we should realize that many people can't find work anywhere else and are basically stuck there. I'd take alcohol serving muslims anyday over pork selling mushrikeen. Besides, do we ever invoke Allah's curse on insurance agents, or on bankers for that matter? May Allah save us from that state when we have to trade in alcohol. I have a couple of stories on that as well, but lets save them for another day.
|04/25/04 at 22:54:48|
|04/25/04 at 23:43:52|
Nice discussion going on here, alhamdulillah.
But did no one find no. 9 hilarious? I was on the floor! :D
Back to the alcohol thing, in the UK, "Indian food" is probably become *the* national dish. The majority of Indian restaurants are owned and run by Bangaldeshis (Muslims). Almost all sell alcohol to drink with their food. In fact, it is quite the "tradition" to have a lager(a type of beer) with your vindaloo(very hot type of curry).
I have often thought that why would Muslims sell alcohol. The answer seems to be, that "Muslims are not consuming the alcohol" and "in any case, most of the cutomers are English and they demand it (its better for business). Is this permissable?
|04/26/04 at 00:35:25|
[quote] "Muslims are not consuming the alcohol" and "in any case, most of the cutomers are English and they demand it (its better for business). Is this permissable? [/quote]
The Prophet SAW said: "If Allaah makes haraam the consumption of something, He also makes haraam its transaction" [Musnaad Ahmad hadith no.2546]
|04/26/04 at 13:49:21|
I wasn't really sure how to take the original post, but since it's veered off a little I feel compelled to jump in.
A short story:
A few years ago I was out with a few friends and we decided to try a new restaurant because we had heard that they had really good seafood dishes. After we were seated, we realized that the establishment sold alcohol. This did not bother me but it really bothered one of the people accompanying me. She thought it best to leave and although I didn't want to and even felt that she was blowing the situation out of proportion, I respected her feelings and we left. It dining there made her feel as though she was compromising her din, then how could I insist on staying? Today however, I understand her stance whole-heartedly and fully agree.
If a Muslim decides that he wants to "support" other Muslims committing haraam acts, then that's between them and Allah (SWTA), but be warned. I agree with Mona on this one, why put yourself in the company of cursed individuals? It just isn't conducive to one trying to improve their din. And the marijuana question was a good way of looking at the situation from a different, but similar angle.
And I was kind of lost on the sundae thing too ???
|04/26/04 at 17:47:50|
Not to take bro superFOBs words out of context, but this is basically how I would support the sundae thing:
[quote author=superFOB link=board=bebzi;num=1082757179;start=0#8 date=04/25/04 at 22:53:03] I'd take alcohol serving muslims anyday over pork selling mushrikeen. [/quote]
Plus, I remember reading an e-mail a few years back on how every fry you eat from Mickey D's is another bullet fired at a Palestinian. I know that's a gross exaggerration, but isn't this a compromise on your deen, too?
Okay so maybe the logic didn't flow, but if you don't want to eat at a muslim joint serving alcohol, because you're encouraging haraam behavior, then how can you eat at a non-muslim, israel supporting joint, which is encouraging something that is beyond haraam. I'll take it back, if my logic doesn't flow, I don't have a problem with it.
Seriously guys, I know I'm very moderate (I'm not liberal, please note the distinction) in most of my 'opinions', but this is not meant as an attack at anybody. I'm just curious.
|04/26/04 at 17:49:58|
|04/26/04 at 21:16:15|
"If a Muslim decides that he wants to "support" other Muslims committing haraam acts, then that's between them and Allah (SubHana Wa Ta`alaA), but be warned"
What do you mean by this??? If a muslim eats at an establishment that serves alcohol, that is the choice of the owner and the owner is responsible to Allah alone as we are responsbile for the acts we commit. This is like comparing it to renting an apartment, your helping "supporting" your landlord pay the mortgage which includes interest. maybe you guys can explain it more.
|04/27/04 at 10:54:43|
Subhaan`allah akhi. It was an exaggerated point but one that I felt the need to make all the same. Perhaps "be aware/beware" it what I should have typed instead of "be warned" (didn't mean to sound prophetic ::)). All I'm saying is that if I have a choice between eating in a restaurant that sells haraam things and one that doesn't, I'd much rather eat in the latter. It's similar to a problem that I face just about everyday. Where I live, almost every corner store is owned by Muslims; of all of these stores, I've only been in two that didn't sell alcoholic beverages, pork products, or blunt wraps. I'm sure there are more than just these two, but I haven't seen any others. Unfortunately these two are located quite far from my house, because I'm really uncomfortable with the clientele of the majority of them. Insuch an establish, the kufar doesn't just buy there, but they hang out harrassing other customers; if this store didn't sell "40's", then those degenerates (or "corner store thugs" as my sister calls them) wouldn't hang outside the store because they certainly don't hang outside the others where it's obvious by so many things that that type of element isn't welcomed.
I really don't think that you can compare "supporting" these establishments to "supporting" a landlord to pay his mortgage and the interest. We do live the US/West and it's virtually impossible to get around that. However, it is a lot easier to avoid eating/shopping in a place. That's a very conscious decision.
|04/27/04 at 14:51:14|
|Thanks Rabia, im sorry but i didnt mean to like go against what you had said.|
But ya i do agree if you got a choice between 2 locations one dats serves alcohol and one dat dosent. The one that dosent is the better choice but its sad when there are times where we dont have a real choice to make.
Like with your example of convenience stores dont you think maybe if more muslims maybe supported the locations that did serve alcohol and tried to let the owner kno that its not alright to sell it then maybe he would change his mind and stop selling it. Its a good thing over here in ontario they dont sell alcohol at convenience stores but they sell blunt wraps which i guess have more then 1 purpose.
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