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|Amazing double life a growing trend among Muslim girls|
|04/18/05 at 22:38:50|
Amazing double life a growing trend among Muslim girls
By Claire Coleman
For the past four years, 24-year-old engineering student [...] has been leading a double life. During a typical week, she will study in her university library by day, then head to any one of Liverpool's many student bars at night.
There, she will party until the early hours: drinking, smoking and experimenting with the hedonistic lifestyle of a typical British undergraduate.
But at the weekend, [...] plays the role of a completely different person; a dutiful daughter of a well-to-do, traditional Muslim family who have raised their daughter to shun such Western temptations.
"Every Friday I get on a train home to Manchester to stay with my family," she says. "It isn't up for discussion; it is just expected. Before I leave, I tidy myself up, make sure I don't smell of drink or cigarettes, and head home to play the dutiful daughter, helping my mother in the kitchen, attending mosque and sitting with my parents' guests."
On Sunday night, [...] returns to Liverpool and the cycle begins again.
"Within half an hour, I will be slipping into a sexy dress and be on my way to a bar to meet friends."
For most teenagers, university life brings the first experience of freedom from parental control. It is a taste of a life to come.
But for many female Muslims like [...], this taste is bittersweet. When she graduates this year, she will return to her parents' home, where she'll revert back to the life of a "good girl", cocooned in a close-knit community where drinking, smoking and having boyfriends is considered sinful.
"In my time at university I have done everything that is forbidden by my religion. I didn't set out to rebel, nor did I feel peer pressure to do what I've been doing," she says.
"I was just genuinely curious about what all my friends were getting up to. You can't grow up in this country and ignore the culture around you."
And as more Muslim women than ever go into higher education, this double life is becoming something of a hidden social phenomenon.
Psychologist Irma Hussain has counselled many Muslim women who have experienced this culture clash.
"Muslim women have faced these conflicts for more than 20 years, but nowadays more women who come from very traditional families are going into higher education, which they never would have been allowed to before."
"It is a great temptation to break from tradition when they are away from their family and everyone around them is having a good time, but it is not without consequences."
"Some may look back and think it was fun, but others struggle with the double life and can never be happy leading such a conflicting existence."
But those thoughts are far from their minds when they set out.
"My first night at university was amazing," recalls [...]. "I'd never really gone out before, so I had no clothes to wear. That afternoon, I went out and bought a sparkly red top with a scoop neck and a cut-away back. I wore it that night with black trousers and heels so high they made my feet hurt. I was really excited."
"In the student bar, there was a promotion on alcopops. Never having drunk before, I was knocking them back. I hadn't gone out with the intention of getting drunk or of kissing a man, but I did both. That pretty much set the tone for the next four years."
Luckily for [...], her university years quenched her thirst for freedom, and she is now happy that those days are coming to an end.
"After four years of living it up, I feel as if I've got it out of my system. I've always known that my years at university would be a fixed time in which I would be able to live my life the way I wanted to, but after doing what I thought I wanted, I realise that what my parents have planned for my future is not so bad."
Unfortunately, not all young Muslims find it so easy to forgo their new life.
For [...] (23), a graduate of Bath University, her education, and all that has come with it, has been a major source of tension with her parents.
"The only reason my parents allowed me to go to university was because they hadn't found a suitable man for me, and an education was a respectable second best to marriage," she says.
"I was excited about university and getting away from home. It was my chance to escape."
Although her family moved from Iran to the UK when she was three, [...]'s parents have made sure she would never forget her roots.
"We speak Farsi and Iranian food is always on the table. Going home is like travelling from the UK to the Middle East."
"The religion goes hand in hand with the culture. I was brought up to fast during Ramadan, celebrate festivals and have an innate belief in the principles of Islam."
In a bid to break free, [...] applied to universities such as Birmingham and Leeds, where she believed she would be able to live independently from her parents.
"But they refused to let me live away from home and insisted I should go to the local university in Bath."
"I resented that - just as I resented the fact that I had no choice in what I studied. It had to be science as it was 'respectable'."
Despite having to live in the family home, [...] still managed to enjoy some of the student life on offer. And her parents' worst nightmare came true when she fell in love with a British boy.
"[...] and I dated for the whole time I was studying, but I knew there was no real future to our relationship. He wasn't a Muslim so my parents would never have accepted him."
"I kept him a secret. I would lie and say I was staying at a friend's house so I could spend the night with him in his student digs."
"He hated the lying and the fact he could never meet my family. It made our relationship seem wrong, bad, dirty even."
For devout Muslims, this really is the crux of the matter. How can a woman call herself a Muslim and behave in a way that contravenes the laws laid down by Islam?
But having been brought up in Britain, most of these girls find no contradiction in taking a couple of years off from tradition to enjoy what all their friends are doing.
And ironically, these women are only experiencing what their brothers have been doing for years.
"It's almost an accepted rite of passage that men go to university and live it up before returning home to settle down with a good Muslim girl," says [...](30) from London.
"One guy I know has had a succession of girlfriends throughout his time at university. He's living with one of them now but admits he'd never marry any of them."
[...] also knew her freedom and relationship had a shelf life. "I cried for a month when my university course ended," she confesses. "I was convinced I'd be married off within a year to a suitable Iranian man."
That day still hasn't arrived. Now, nearly three years after leaving university, she is still living with her parents, but is also working in public relations.
'They think I'm still a virgin but if they ever knew, they would either
ostracise me or marry me off to the first potential suitor, like they did with my sister, [...]."
"She married young. She knows about my life and has the same wishes as me. But she has to keep her views hidden from her husband. She's content because he is a good man. But I don't want to be content; I want to be happy."
Not surprisingly, many Muslim women students find it incredibly hard to lead this double life. In the case of Malaysian-born [...](21), a student at Sheffield University, her freedom came with overwhelming guilt.
"In my country, unmarried men and women are not allowed to be alone together. If caught, you can be jailed or fined," she says.
"But because I was on my own, I felt I could enjoy a Western life. I dated and eventually slept with a boy I met here."
For a while, she enjoyed her new-found openness. But soon, she was overcome by feelings of guilt and paranoia.
"I felt anxious throughout our relationship and had to lie to my parents and tell them I spent all my time studying."
"Then finally, last year, I had a nervous breakdown. I couldn't cope with my double life any more. I regret having a sexual relationship. I can't wait to finish my studies and go back to my country to make a fresh start."
"If anyone in Malaysia discovered the truth, my life wouldn't be worth living."
But though they have had very differing experiences there is one thing Sofia, [...] and [...] agree on: they all expect to have an arranged marriage and are insistent they will keep their wild-child days secret from their husbands.
As [...] says: "I know people will find it hard to understand that after living a free life I am willing to accept an arranged marriage, but ultimately, my family is all I have." - Daily Mail.
 Not so.
|04/19/05 at 23:20:22|
|04/19/05 at 05:35:41|
Muslim men have been doing it for years now and the second the girls do it, it raises eyebrows...
Not that i am saying that its ok for muslim girls to be doing it...
But u wont believe the number of muslim men (boys, rather) here in india, whose parents are aware of the fact that they have girlfriends (they may just b going out with them, not necessarily spending nights together), and are completely cool about it. They act as though its just a phase boys go through before they settle down.
But the same parents wont let their daughters step one toe out of the house without a male chaperone keeping vigil. They feel the second their daughter speaks to a non-mahram guy (for the most innocent of reasons), she's tainted for life and she'll never get proposals and be unmarried her whole life (which, to them, is apparently a fate worse than death).
So the daughters are supposed to grow up and marry men who have had girlfriends and sometimes are still in touch with their often hindu girlfriends (why hindu u ask, muslim girls r supposed 2 b high maintanance...).
And the double standards that the men have - they have this image of the ideal girlfriend - beautiful and clad in miniskirts and the like, and the image of the ideal wife - good cook, rich family but clad such that no other man looks at her. This is what is called the gharwali/baharwali syndrome in desiland.
The whole phenomenon of muslim youth going wild when they leave home for higher education seems to b worldwide. Its like a caged animal suddenly left loose going crazy. Reading sr. jannah's posts about having a platonic relationship made a whole lot of sense to me. I honestly think that muslim children need to be inculcated with the haya that goes into maintaining a relationship with a non-mahram. As ideal as it might sound, completely blocking them from the opposite sex is not a practical solution as muslims today r compelled 2 come into close proximity with non-mahrams, which earlier generations of muslims did not have 2 deal with for the most part. Times are indeed changing and Muslim parenting skills need to b revised especially to combat zina and the whole clubbing lifestyle...
|04/19/05 at 05:37:49|
|Re: They think that ...|
|04/19/05 at 09:50:38|
|[slm] This double-life existed even 25 years ago in Britain, although the airing of TV programs with explicit sex in the middle and 70s may have contributed to its phenomenal rise.|
Extra- and pre-marital sex has existed and is documented in all societies, but previously there were strong taboos, and tabs, so the incidence was low.
In the UK, most initial immigrants were in the low-paid working class and without much education, including the deen. As they brought their families and as more middle-class Muslim professionals settled in the UK, the "freedom" became more accessible to the younger generation. Some Muslim parents tried to stem this tide, and my late friend Dr. Kalim Siddiqui started some of the protests against this culture of unrestricted sexual permissiveness. The 70's were called the permissive 70s.
In North America, the Muslim immigrants were mostly middle-clas to start with, and were divided into two categories - those who wanted to maintain their deen, and those who wanted to enjoy "freedom".
I had both type of friends, or rather acquaintances, and from both genders. I was very lucky, that despite many temptations, Allah saved me from this sin. I might have fallen into it. I contemplated it and had opportunities enough number of times.
What counts is how deeply the concept of being answerable to Allah (swt) on Judgement Day is rooted in the individual.
How one escapes it is by an illustration of the fire that one can fall into, if one isn't careful. In my childood I used a swear word for my brother. My mother heard it, and took out an ember to burn my tongue. she insisted that she did not want to see me burn in Hell, so she was going to punish me by burning my tongue here. This left such an impression on my oung mind, that until I was 45, I wasn't able to use a swear word, no matter what the provocation.
My wife would have burnt my son's feet if I hadn't been there to save him.
I read a story once. A princess got lost while hunting, and came to a hut where this young attractive man was sitting, doing dhikr. As she was lost, the man gave her food to eat, and made a bed for her to sleep, while he spent the night in prayers.
In the morning, the king's soldiers found the princess, and took her back. When the king was reunited with his daughter, he asked if she had been well. She said yes, but she wnanted the young man to be brought in. The soldiers rode out, and grabbed the young man, tying hiim with ropes, and brought him to the king's court. The king called for his daughetr, and asked her the culprit is here, what punishment do you want to give him. The princess told the king the young man hadn't done anything wrong, but she wanted a question answered by that him.
The question was: why did he put his palm to the tip of the candle, three times during his night vigil of prayers.
The young man answered that to be truthful, the thought of taking advsntage of the two being alone had crossed his ind, but whenever Satan brought this thought to him, he said OK, for this I will burn in Hell. Let me test if I can stand the pain of this burning candle. Then he would put his palm to the flame.
This is the test we need to take at times.
Having said that, let me remind myself first, and then the others, that Allah is The Most Merciful, and has promised that if a person meets Him with sins that fill the space between the Earth and the Skies, He would be prepared to forgive that person, provided he hadn't died in shirk.
That is the bottom line.
Let us pray for our brothers and sisters in Islam and our near and dear ones, that they stay away from major sins, and are able to enetr Jannatul Firdaus with us.
And I am told this sin has risen to unprecented proportions in Africa, Asia.
Let us make dawah, while hiding their sins.
|04/19/05 at 10:00:39|
|04/19/05 at 11:20:25|
here here safa!! u bring up some good points...no doubt about the double standard for Muslim girls..it seems to be prevalent in other communities too unfortunately... it's sad to hear that this is going on in bigger muslim populations like in india... very sad.. i had hoped that at least they were protected... when u mentioned mini-skirts versus the good wife thing my first thought was of bollywood movies... how much influence do u think they have had on muslim boys there??
|what can be done|
|04/19/05 at 20:27:42|
I don't know why the issue of men bashing was thrown into this?
What are some obvious solutions?
|study abroad alone|
|04/19/05 at 21:56:00|
It is sad that anybody travels or lives alone. I think there is a hadeeth that people shouldn't live alone, for shatan whispers more to them. And of course women should not live far away alone unless it is necessary. If it is questionable for them just to temporiarily travel, what about to live there! To me I don't think there is such thing more important to travel to than the obligation of Hajj and if we shouldn't be going alone unless we have no mahrams and in that case in a group of pious women with a guide then I don't see any reason to go elsewhere. Alot of modern day families are not in NEED to do this, it is just to get more dunya. They send their little daughters who often don't even have a solid Islamic basis to a whole new world that is vile and full of sexual expolitation they did not experience often home. It is not worth it. They don't see the gift Allah gave them by having a family, the least they can do is protect them and keep their honor and dignity to the best of their ability.
|04/19/05 at 23:28:33|
I've taken out most of the names in the article... I know they probably made up those aliases anyway but I felt better removing them. I just came from a class on this issue. We should cover the sins of fellow believers in the hopes that Allah will cover our sins and inshaAllah one day these girls will regret their sins and making them openly and they can do a complete istighfar inshaAllah
If someone thinks girls shouldn't live away from home than neither should guys.
bhaloo we're not bashing guys we're saying its not just about girls...
i think what can be done/needs to be done is education... some real GOOD dawah and people change.. so far what those girls have lived is probably cultural they don't even seem to understand why what they are doing is wrong in meaning.
Plus I feel like the article is written in that "oh poor mozlim girls are oppressed because they can't go out and sleep around, but some smart one's have escaped during college" tone.. so it's obviously pretty biased
|04/19/05 at 23:29:28|
Mashallah well said sister Amatullah. Why on earth would some Muslim parent send their kids away to college and live alone in a place of fitnah and evil? It makes no sense at all. Sacrificing one's akhira for a few dollars in the dunya is the worst investment anyone could make.
|double life a growing trend among Muslim girls|
|04/20/05 at 09:32:47|
|[slm] why would parents send their children to live alone?|
with the dish, the VCR and the VCP, the cable, the net, one does not need to send anyone to live alone in order to have Satan whisper in one's ears. Wasn't zina being committed before Muslimahs started accepted places at Universities?
It is world-wide slide, and getting education is not necessarily for this dunya.
Wouldn't it be better for Muslimahs to become medical doctors, so they could treat other Muslimahs? Wouldn't it be better for them to be teachers?
Education is necessary for all.
I read stories of girls losing their way when traveling by train in pre-partition India, and falling into the hands of those who took advantage of them. Because of this, I was for a long time against the veil. I have studied in coed schools, and although there was perhaps one isolated case. A boy stabbed a girl to death, although I don't know the reason, I can only guess what it might have been.
And I saw how freedom, song, movies, gradually resulted in a degenerate society. But didn't society always have its degenerates?
Now this is the time of fitnah, and the fitnah has entered our homes. If you put too much restrictions on your children, they are likely to rebel, or just try to taste the forbidden fruit when they get the freedom to live alone.
If you demonstrate to them what it might mean, they would probably pause before doing such an act.
Do you remember the story I told of the two brothers, from a well-renowned scholar family of India?
Women should try to travel in at least twos, if possible. If you keep them away from the world, they may not be able to fend for themselves, or defend themselves in times of need.
And this increasingly monogamous world with a lower life expectancy for men, means a large number of women will have to fend for themselves.
|04/20+05 at 13:51:06|
|i agree with bro timbuktoo, staying alone is not the only reason 4 zina.|
The primary reason is lack of education; without that, the slightest temptation cannot b resisted, be it cable TV or cigarettes.
I dont think locking daughters up in their houses is the solution (not that their staying alone is always correct). They are going to have to come into contact with the outside world sometime. I mean, what if the hubby is to go out of town for a week or a month 4 some training or something, is he supposed 2 lock the wife in or take her along everywhere. I mean, common, women must b expected 2 fend 4 themselves 2 some extent... Women weren't babysat in the Prophet's (PBUH) time, they certainly can't b expected to now. I just don't get that mentality, keep them dumb and ignorant, so they'll b easier to tame???
As for women not being able 2 travel alone, that is about physical security and is besides the point. There are sons and daughters that are educated at local institutions while staying at their parents' and still manage to hide their "alternate lives" from their parents. And then if u deprive them of the local school, there's zina right at home with the TV and the Internet. What do u do, cut off all possible contacts with the outside world? Like i said, eduction is the ONLY solution.
And what about zina committed by Muslim men, should they b locked up too?
I am sorry if i come off as harsh, don't mean 2 offend anyone.
|04/20/05 at 18:55:05|
As terrible as this may sound, I think that more than half the blame lies with the
parents. I just don't believe that parents can assume they couldn't possibly have known about
something like this.
I had a friend, may Allah swt forgive her, who used to sneak her boyfriend into her room
in her own house while her parents were sleeping. I fought with her on many occasions
not understanding how her parents could possibly not be aware of this. One time she told
me that she was just waiting to be caught, she was waiting to be scolded, but her parents
turned a blind eye towards her actions, and denied the fact that their daughter could be
involved in something like this after the boy's parents called them to discuss this
behavior. He had no doubt been caught on his end.
That might be an extreme case, but I find it difficult to comprehend how parents do not
keep tabs on thier kids, especially in today's day and age. One of my friends has been
smoking since he was 14. Apparently, 10 years later, his parents are still clueless. When
I would come home after sitting next to someone who smokes, my parents could smell the
cigarettes on my clothes.
I think there is a lack of communication between parents and their children. I also
think that parents need to quit the attitude of "my kid could never do wrong"..
|How do i deal with it?|
|04/20/05 at 22:54:28|
Im sad to say but i see this type of stuff everyday first hand at university. its really hard, to be around all this and not be apart of it, my biggest dillema is how to avoid it, i guess im weak and cant stand up to it. Im often invited by muslims and non muslims to go clubbin Friday and Saturday nites, im curious and kinda want to go check it out, but im in 3rd year in uni, ive never gone clubbin or drinking and i guess i dont see why i need to go now. Its hard to always come up with excuses as why i cant go, At the same time its hard for me to explain to non muslim freinds why i cant go yet the other muslims kids are out clubbing and drinking. i guess i might be friends with the wrong crowd?
One of the things i keep hearing is "have fun while you can" i hear it from friends and cusins, tellin me i should go out and enjoy life do what ever i please cuz "i cant once im married". hearing it from family is kinda worst, cuz i some times chill with these cuzins who like to go out visit clubs, bars and strip clubs. there parents don't know ofcourse but other family memebers do and its kinda kept quiet or ignored. I mean one of my cuzins was at the casino and he walked in to one of his uncles and they just preteneded nothing was wrong. Ive got muslim freinds from childhood who i went to islamic skool with, who slept with there girl friends and now have kids and they havent bothered to get married to these girls and just live with them.
ANd the one thing that stops me from getting involved in anything like this is one of my good muslimah friend told me that if i wanted to marry a good muslimah, id have to be a good muslim my self.
I guess my dillema is how do i continue to avoid this as i feel im kinda weak and im going to get sucked in and end up going to a club to check it out or something.
|04/20/05 at 23:34:21|
I am sooooooo a fan of early marriage these days... why not looking into getting married or at least engaged.. It seems if a guy is married/engaged his whole outlook changes and his priorities as well and it keeps him out of trouble ;) I know some bros who are married that are here their wives elsewhere and ma'shallah they are so good. So I mean some ppl are not financially ready yet to get married but you can get engaged right?
|04/21/05 at 01:06:52|
Early marriage is definitely a solution.
But long periods of engagement - where the parties wait until they're done with their education - is not. I have seen engaged couples go out together, talk hours on the phone for years together - a relationship like that for months or years is just not right.
|04/21/05 at 07:25:56|
Keep it up brother! Its great to hear that there are Muslims out there who resist temptation when people all around are succumbing to it.
Jannah & Safa i agree with you. Long engagements are a bummer. And what is scary about them is that a heart can change during these times.
|Re: Amazing double life a growing trend among Musl|
|04/21/05 at 10:58:11|
|alsalamu alaykum wa rhmat Ullahi wa barakatuh,|
This is a huge problem...and its true...education and a sense of being responsible for one's own actions (to Allah ta'ala) are important. There are so many factors..laying blame and what not isn't the solution. Whatever the parents have done, etc. is past, the community has to deal with the situation as it is and educate parents as well. A lot of community outreach needs to be done..Are we up to the challenge?
Bro Mohammad....yah, i've experienced those situations. The answer that always works is saying 'Its not my thing'..and say it with a smile. I know of non-Muslims who don't go clubbing/drink/gamble..And their friends respect them for it. Keep it simple and let them know you're not comfortable with it. When they are aware of this, insha'Allah your attitude might start rubbing off on them. It may seem hard not to succomb to peer pressure, but turn the table around on them and make it like your the one that's setting the standard.
And what will keep you strong is always being aware of Allah ta'ala. What i meant about saying it with a smile.....whenever they ask you to join them, just imagine being in jannah in the akhirah, smile, and let them know you have better things to do.
|Why not Get educated at 40? and get married at 13?|
|04/24/05 at 05:48:00|
|People who do Harram often blame others for the Harram.|
The girls blame the fact that they are in the wrong time and the wrong place.
They claim that this makes the Harram acceptable, or at least less unacceptable than it would have been had times been better. Others claim they have no choice in doing it as they have to do it to be accepted, or every one does it.
Others claim they are feminists by doing it as many men do it so it is sexist to prevent them from doing it.
It is not allowed for Muslim Women to travel a distance that Allah has set for us without a Mohram. This is known and ignored, the consequences are clear.
Women are deficient in the religion and intelligence. And our lord has placed men as guardians of women. This is fact and known and is hidden, because if the Kaffer find out about it, moderate Muslims will find it real hard to twist it to comply with 21st century white European attitudes of feminism.
A lot of people claim that sending our sisters and daughters to university is a must as the chance that they will learn something useful there outweighs the risk that they may turn in to sluts there.
But the fact is these women are most likely going to get married and have babies after they finish. The knowledge they learn in university doesn’t help them change nappies, cook chapattis and most importantly, it does not help them to be obedient to their Husbands!
Some people make the excuse that the Muslim nation needs female doctors and teachers. This may be an excuse for the few who study medicine and teaching, but not an excuse for the many who study anything else.
And out of the few that study medicine and teaching, most work for a year or less after they graduation then get married and become housewives.
The desire to have sexual intercourse is intrinsic within us. We can not deny it. No amount of sheltering will protect us from it and no amount of education will remove it from us. These desires start when children become adults. If the young adults are married when they reach puberty, they will have a Hallal way to channel it. If they are not married they will find Harram ways to channel it.
The desire to have sex is like the desire to eat. Denying it, does not work. Catholics have tried it, and their nuns become pregnant and their priests become paedophiles.
We can ask our children to follow the bidah of the Christians or the Sunnah of the Prophets favourite wife Ayesha, who was married to him at nine and engaged a lot earlier.
If the Kaffirs education,
In the Kaffirs universities,
In the Kaffirs countries,
Is so important,
And so useful,
As well as being so vital to the Ummah.
Young Muslim women should still stop delaying marriage for university because they can always delay university for a time after they have got married and had their children!
Why do we have to be like the Kaffir who delay having children till they are 40 and most probably can’t have children any more?
Instead why don’t we delay university for a time when we can no longer have children?
|04/24/05 at 15:02:22|
|bro there is so much wrong with your post i don't even know where to begin!!! let me just say come on and get real and PLEASE don't even try to write as if what you are saying is islamic, it's just wack...|
|04/24/05 at 17:08:00|
I think it should be mandatory for Muslims to take a course on logic when they become old enough to use the internet.
"Women are deficient in religion and intelligence" ... Just curious? .. Which women are you comparing? And to whom?
Islam elevated our status from chapati making to realize the full potential that we do indeed have...and in about 3 minutes you have made it very clear that you missed the whole point of gender equity in Islam.
|04/24/05 at 20:45:00|
[quote author=abdullahcohn link=board=ummah;num=1113878330;start=10#16 date=04/24/05 at 05:48:00]Women are deficient in the religion and intelligence. And our lord has placed men as guardians of women.
The knowledge they learn in university doesn’t help them change nappies, cook chapattis and most importantly, it does not help them to be obedient to their Husbands
Change nappies? Cook chappatis? Do you seriously believe that these acts are the only things women are capable of? Are you out of your mind?
I am extremely saddened, disappointed, and angered by your post, brother AbdullaCohn! I don't want to start an argument but why has Allah placed paradise at the feet of mothers? Why has Allah have an entire chapter in the Quran about women?
It is not the fact that women shouldn't do housework or anything, it is the fact that YOU think that women aren't capable of being 'intelligent"
Prophet's Hadiths repeatedly emphasizes the acquirement of education and knowledge for every Muslim male and female. For example, one Hadith states that, " Seeking knowledge is a duty of every Muslim, man or woman. Another Hadith states, " Seek knowledge from the cradle to grave." (1978:25). Another Hadith states that, " The Father, if he educates his daughter well, will enter Paradise." (The World Bank Report July 9, 1993: 25). Yet another Hadith states that, " A mother is a school. If she is educated, then a whole people are educated" (1993: 25).
In early of Islamic history there were many women scholars who had very significant roles in the Islamic world. For example Ayisha, the Prophet's wife was one of the most famous Muslim scholars. Not only was she very intelligent, she had an exceptional memory. That is why she was considered one of the most important sources of Hadith. It has been stated in some Islamic reports that the Prophet told the Muslims to go to Ayisha for guidance and learning of religious duties. The Prophet also told the Muslims to trust Ayisha's teaching and guidance
In the Islamic world, at the beginning of Islam, there were no restrictions or prohibitions toward women to seek knowledge and education. There were many women scholars in the fields of religion, literature, music, education, and medicine. For example, a woman named Nafisa who was related to Ali, the fourth Khalif, had a vast knowledge of and was an expert on the Hadiths of the Prophet. Many famous Muslim scholars of the time, such as Imam Shafi-ai would participate in Nafisa's scholarly discourse and learn from her.
Ok before I get carried away perhaps I should just end this now so I needn't waste breath on foolish conclusions such as this.
I suggest you rethink what you are saying, brother Abdullacohn.
|04/25/05 at 15:03:09|
|double lives and double standards|
|04/28/05 at 19:54:50|
ok, some of these posts dont even dignify a response, ...but, i did want to give you a real example that may shed some light on this subject:
there were two sisters in a family. one stayed home for college, and one went away to school. the one who left home was exposed to a lot of fitna: guys would hit on her, and ask her out; her roomates brought her guy friends over to chill, or watch rated-R movies; she gradually ended up at parties where alcohol was served. the sister who stayed home was under the watch of her parents; she went to school, and she went home; she went out with her friends every now and then, but came back home by curfew.
the girl who went away for school never drank, never dated, never comitted zina.
the girl who stayed home did.
the parents were shocked and apalled, and didnt understand what happened.
it's not about the place it's about the people. I remember watching a video by Imam Siraj Wahhaj about the dynamics of the Muslim Family. you cant *just* put them in a certain environment and expect them to "turn out" ok. you have to actively instill in them Islamic values - to both the boys and the girls - and really make your self available to answer their questions *honestly*. And if you dont know, ask somebody who does.
too many times i have seen parents constrict the girl and release the boy, somehow thinking that if the boy begins to date then it's not that big of a deal. the double standards are ridiculous! i mean these boys are dating girls, why is it ok for the boy but not the girl?
I heard a statment a sheikh made once that i thought was really amazing. Some man in the audience was trying to bring to point that the woman's place is in the home - that there wouldnt be so much conflict for the men if the women would stay at home. the sheikh asked: ok, if the woman's place is at home then where is the man's place? ......(silence)....why are the men spending so much time outside of the home? the only reason for the men to be out is for work/business...even the sunnah prayers are encouraged for men to do at home. so if you venture to say that the woman's place is in the home, then you must say the man's is too.
(of course the sheikh expounded more than i have time to write, but that was the jist of it)
in light of that i would say that parents should stop locking their girls up, while pushing their boys outside. it is time to take real responsibility and *educate them.* and in order to do that you must be educated yourself. changing the community starts with your house.
|04/29/05 at 12:11:13|
as salaamu alaykum,
[quote]I heard a statment a sheikh made once that i thought was really amazing. Some man in the audience was trying to bring to point that the woman's place is in the home - that there wouldnt be so much conflict for the men if the women would stay at home. the sheikh asked: ok, if the woman's place is at home then where is the man's place? ......(silence)....why are the men spending so much time outside of the home? the only reason for the men to be out is for work/business...even the sunnah prayers are encouraged for men to do at home. so if you venture to say that the woman's place is in the home, then you must say the man's is too.
(of course the sheikh expounded more than i have time to write, but that was the jist of it)
subhan'Allah, you know I've heard some very similar things from a teacher as well.. they also mentioned a hadeeth in which Rasulullah [saw] came across some young men basically just chillin' in the market place, watching people go by, and he told them to go home and make better use of their time!
|04/29/05 at 13:41:48|
|Volume 2, Book 24, Number 541: |
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
On 'Id ul Fitr or 'Id ul Adha Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, "O people! Give alms." Then he went towards the women and said. "O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women)." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He replied, "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray." Then he left. And when he reached his house, Zainab, the wife of Ibn Masud, came and asked permission to enter It was said, "O Allah's Apostle! It is Zainab." He asked, 'Which Zainab?" The reply was that she was the wife of Ibn Mas'ub. He said, "Yes, allow her to enter." And she was admitted. Then she said, "O Prophet of Allah! Today you ordered people to give alms and I had an ornament and intended to give it as alms, but Ibn Masud said that he and his children deserved it more than anybody else." The Prophet replied, "Ibn Masud had spoken the truth. Your husband and your children had more right to it than anybody else."
Those were the women of the best of times and now we live in the worst of times.
Allah has placed Paradise under the feet of mothers, and women choose education and carriers ahead of motherhood! If that isn’t lack of intelligence what is?
A mother is a school, but instead of learning Islam, cooking, motherhood and most importantly, how to please your husbands from your mothers, a lot of women choose to waste their time learning useless knowledge in bad environments.
Feminists are the most anti-women people on the face of the earth. They see being a woman as so lowly they want all women to become men. Paradise is at the feet of the mother, so women should look forward to becoming mothers instead of preparing to be fathers.
It is farad for the father to provide, not for the mother. So why do these women chase carriers? Why don’t they get married and have babies first?
Be like Ayesha ra, get married as soon as you reach puberty. And once married, instead of wasting your spare time watching soup operas, Indian films and doing gossiping(geebat), memorise Hadith!
Delete the website link you have pasted, its pro-occupation, pro-invasion, anti-mujahideen website.
It was your post that made me reply.
ys would hit on her, and ask her out; her roomates brought her guy friends over to chill, or watch rated-R movies; she gradually ended up at parties where alcohol was served.”
This is an example I should be using! These are the reasons why I say women should not go away to study! Parties! Parties? Are the any hallal activities in Parties where alcohol is served?
In your example, both sisters indulged in Harram activity. If they had been married earlier, they would have had a Hallal means to fulfil their natural desires. But they/their parents chose ‘education’ instead.
Marriage does not cure Zina, some people do it even when married. Huded cures them!
|04/29/05 at 13:46:16|
|04/29/05 at 14:57:40|
bro ur taking hadiths out of context and making up your own interpretation of what women's roles are in islam. please see what the scholars say and do not limit what are our rights. we have the right to be educated. we have the right to go to school. we have the right to work. we have and always have had the right to be "more" than maids and baby making machines. This has NEVER been the tradition of women in Islam ever. You are not allowed to take away those rights given by Allah from anyone.
as for your concerns about environment for school and work, do not specify that for muslim women. if you are so "concerned" for women then you should be just so concerned if not so for the muslim men.
|In my opinion...|
|05/01/05 at 15:37:56|
Bro abdullahcohn, i would like to differ in opinion with what you said.
This being the first topic i read, and (more importanly) my first post, i don't think i can give a honest opinion of your mindset, but from what i see posted here, i think brother, you should try to be a bit more 'informed' about the problems at hand and their viable 'solutions'.
Locking away our girls and women in the house is NOT a solution to this problem of double standards. We will be only limiting their education and freedom, and as safa had said, "I honestly think that muslim children need to be inculcated with the haya that goes into maintaining a relationship with a non-mahram".
The point i too would like to stress upon here is 'education', as most bros n sis have done.
The parents of the child (both genders, i mean), should tell him/her about what's right and what's not. Teach him/her that doing something just to appear 'cool' to his/her peers is not the right thing.
However tempting it may seem at first, and however 'green', the 'grass' may look at the 'other' side, he/she should refrain from it.
The concept of banning one's kids from living/traveling alone, does not and will not serve the purpose. Our generations need to be independent, and hence must realise their strengths and weaknesses. If we teach them about the rights and the wrongs, and make them realise that everything they do is being watched by Almighty Allah, then they will themselves take care of their actions. As bro timbuktu noted, they should be taught to remember the Hell-fire whenever they feel tempted to indulge into any sinful action.
Women in Islam are entitled to their own development and education, and it is a right that we cannot and should not try to take away. I mean, what is the use of rearing up one's kids, if one decides to restrict their freedom to educate themselves and acquire knowledge. One of the characteristics of a well brought-up child is that he/she has the best of education of both the worlds.
It is my sincere prayer to Almighty Allah, to help the muslim parents cope up with the changing times and environments, in which they are bringing up their kids, and thus give them the best of teachings and guidance.
|05/02/05 at 18:27:00|
br. abdullahcohn you are completely missing the point! you can't use this example as support for forbidding girls from going away to school, because the girl who stayed home was involved in much worse haraam. so obviously, it is not the location of the school that is the problem, but the rearing of the children.
i presented that example because it contradicts the stereotype that girls who go away to school are doomed for fitna, while girls who stay home are magically protected from fitna. fitna can be found wherever you are, it is up to the parents to equip their children with the tools for dealing with this fitna, without jeopardizing their right to education. this responsibility applies for both daughters and sons. i can think of plenty of examples where young men have gone away to school and succomb to the fitna by falling into zina. and i seriously doubt that when the tables are turned you would advocate the same regulations for men.
the double lives the muslim youth lead are part of a psychological and social trend that point to the disease that has crept into the homes of the muslims, and has manifested itself in the muslim family and, subsequently, the muslim society. the solution is not to enforce some superficial modification by sealing girls up in their houses and limiting their resources, since they are destined to be "baby-producing machines and servants to their husbands" anyway.
this type of attitude is extremely harmful for the muslim society. Women are not only mothers to their children, but they are the mothers of society. if they are left ignorant and uninformed then what do they teach the next generation? women at the time of the Prophet ( [saw] ) also held high academic statuses. they were extremely educated in secular as well as religious fileds. many of our esteemed scholars were *taught* by women! these were righteous women that were educated and dedicated to the deen. so to limit our role to a pre-islamic vision of our gender is a disservice to islam and to muslims, male and female; and it robs our society of the important contributions that we have to offer.
|05/03/05 at 02:11:23|
While religious upbringing is important, the environment one lives in is EXTREMELY important. Putting good Muslims in a bad environment all in the name of education makes no sense at all.
Consider this question asked at Islam online about men/women in a mixed environment school.
What does Islam say about co-education? I need enlightenment on this issue.
Content of Reply
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
Dear brother in Islam, let’s firstly voice our deep appreciation to this confidence you have in us and your important question. In fact, it is a great thing that you show keenness on understanding the teachings of Islam that enlightens the mind and save the person from the abyss of ignorance.
First of all, it should be noted that Islam cares much for the perseverance of morals and the maintenance of modesty and chastity in the Muslim society. To achieve this goal, Islam requires the highest degree of cautiousness when dealing with the members of the opposite sex. A Muslim is always asked to keep very remote from any thing that stimulates him or stirs his sexual urge. This includes looks, gestures, or free mixing.
The laws of Islam are from Allah, our Creator, who knows our weaknesses as well as our strengths better than we do. Women, by nature, desire to be looked at, adored and cherished, while man is inclined to look at women. Allah therefore warns us against our own nature, which may lead us astray if we do not exercise caution and take the necessary safeguards.
In the meantime, Islam has guaranteed the right of education for both men and women regarding it as an obligation upon every Muslim, male or female. The woman’s right to education is well established from the early days of Islam.
Undoubtedly, the free mixing of young boys and girls, close to the period of adolescence, in the relaxed environment of a school is very serious. It is a duty of Muslims to unite their efforts to eliminate this system in their countries and to set up schools, colleges and universities for both genders. Parents should search for separate schools to enroll their children. However, if a Muslim, male or female, is pressed to study at a mixed school, then he should exert his utmost to observe the Islamic standards of morality and keep away from all unlawful things.
Addressing the issue of co-education, we’d like to cite the following fatwa:
“There is a well-known principle in Islamic law, which may be rendered in translation as "blocking the means (of evils)." This applies to any situation or condition which may be permissible in the first instance, but is calculated to lead to something forbidden. If it is generally deemed that there is a direct relationship between the original, permissible situation and the resulting forbidden one, then the original situation is pronounced as forbidden.
This is the prohibition of something which is acknowledged to be permissible in the first instance, because of the results it produces. In other words, should the circumstances change and the situation in question is deemed not to lead to the forbidden act, then it can no longer be pronounced as forbidden.
Co-education is one of such things. In the first instance, there is no harm in a group of people, men and women, boys and girls, to be present in a classroom, listening to a lecture, provided that everyone behaves properly, abiding by Islamic teachings and codes of conduct. But when we put together a group of young boys and girls, close to the period of adolescence, in the relaxed environment of a school where they meet and play, then it is asking too much of such young people to observe Islamic standards of morality. The results may be very serious indeed.
Therefore, we say that co-education is Islamically unacceptable, because of what it leads to, not because of the process of teaching or of the meeting of the two sexes in a classroom.”
Excerpted, with slight modifications, from: www.islamicity.com
Shedding more light on the issue, we’d like to state that "co-education is not an issue that has specifically been addressed by the Shari`ah. In other words, what we should keep in mind is the fact that co-education has not categorically been proscribed by the Almighty. However, there is no question about the view that it should be avoided, keeping in view the essence of the Islamic teachings regarding gender interaction and also the dictates of our intuition.
As far as the arguments in favor of co-education are concerned, the strongest argument put forth by its proponents, is the exhortation that Islam has extended to Muslims to allow their women into mosques and let them offer prayer in congregation if they want to. Why on earth should it not be allowed in schools and colleges then? This seems to be the strongest of all arguments offered by them since, through this, they manipulate a religious directive in their own favor.
A little deliberation here will reveal that there is a world of difference between the environment of a mosque and that of a school. In mosques, we indeed have an overwhelming feeling of the presence of the Almighty. Moreover, our intentions to visit and our concept regarding the sanctity of the mosque make a real difference in this respect. In spite of all this, Islam further enjoins certain etiquette to be observed by both Muslim men and women while they are in their Lord’s House. They are never allowed to intermingle freely or sit side by side. Ladies are directed to cover themselves properly and men have been directed to lower their gaze of which they become profoundly aware when they enter the sacred house. Is the situation with schools the same? Of course not. It is for this reason that co-education in schools and colleges must not be extrapolated on the basis of the permission given to women to attend mosques.
In fact, the tremendous loss caused by co-education is moral degeneration. The students are completely exposed to the opposite sex. Curiosity plays its role well in this regard. The wrong ideals set by the media and the awful bombardment of immoral images and characters fill the space left out by the germs of curiosity implanted by Satan. This reality coupled with the fact that they are mostly devoid of the supervision of any true and sincere mentor at school in that their teachers themselves do not present their students with a role model of morality, cause the innocent students to fall prey to the deadly predator of sexual impurity.
(MY COMMENT: one can only imagine the horrors that await young Muslims living alone in that environment)
Thus, the ideal situation that springs to mind when one takes into consideration the spirit of Islamic teachings and dictates of common sense is that provision of separate class rooms for male and female students is imperative. Therefore, it is incumbent upon the (Muslim) governments to make necessary arrangements in order to realize this end."
Excerpted, with slight modifications, from:
as well as islam online.
|05/03/05 at 02:13:10|
|05/03/05 at 19:15:06|
[quote author=bhaloo link=board=ummah;num=1113878330;start=20#26 date=05/03/05 at 02:11:23]
While religious upbringing is important, the environment one lives in is EXTREMELY important. Putting good Muslims in a bad environment all in the name of education makes no sense at all.
I certainly don't advocate selecting bad environments for Muslims just for the sake of education. I mean only that we should not place blame primarily on our environment. No matter where we are, we have to conduct ourselves as Muslims should. But not everyone has the same opportunities or circumstances.
I know plenty of girls who live in very dysfunctional Islamic communities (you know the ones that are nick-named 'masjid-al-fitna'), but have the opportunity to study at a university where the Muslim community there is more educated and provides more opportunities to improve their deen (with respect to knowledge, akhlaq, role models, etc).
And i have seen first hand, in one of these dysfunctional communities, where the divorce rate is extremely high - mostly among the converts and american muslims. They marry young, they havent been educated very much (or very well) in the deen or secularly, and they just dont understand what marriage is supposed to be. The same men that go to the masjid for salah, call the adhan even, are the ones that beat their wives. In this community the women have to support the kids post-divorce, but in order to get a job good enough to pay the bills they have to go back to school. This is [i]real[/i].
In that community, would it not be advisable and strongly recommended that the young women be educated before marriage, so they are not left destitute when their husbands decide to leave them for a younger/prettier/richer/or whatever wife? Even staying in a community like that to go to school would be psychologically overwhelming and draining. Would it really be harmful for the young women in that community to seek out a university that has a better muslim community - a better atmosphere to learn a trade and to learn the deen? Would you sincerely discourage the young sisters from going to a university that is co-ed, in favor of staying in and studying in such a destructive community?...
Certainly our present situation in this dunya is not ideal, however, in cases like this perhaps attending these universities, even with the problems they pose, can be a step up.
|education at all costs? who is educating and what?|
|05/06/05 at 14:15:04|
I formulated this reply with the help and excerpts of various articles.
"If someone thinks girls shouldn't live away from home than neither should guys."
I think Islamicaly guys don’t need a mehram to travel and to live away from home. Women do and for a good reason. Whether we understand it or not is irrelevant, but the statement you made is not based on Islam.
Neither should unless they have to, agreed.
But Islamically, women are not allowed unless there are certain conditions present, men are.
And there is no denying that the role of the woman in the home is bigger than that of the man and the role of the man in the outside environment is bigger than that of a woman and that is based on what is obligated of us biologically and in terms of spousal obligations. This isn’t to say a woman should never be outside and man should never be inside or the roles don’t interconnect with each other, or that women should not learn/teach/work, etc which usually ends up being put in my mouth, but my opinion is that it is not right to portray it as though in Islam it is all the same, because it isn’t.
The mothers of believers and what they are commanded in the Quran is our best guidance as women. The hadeeths that encourage us to stay at home for something so important as the prayers gives a clue as to other things are not as important. Also that we are encouraged to walk at edges of the roads why do you think that is? Why did the sahabiyat have to leave as fast as the prayer was done before the men move? Why did they walk so that their clothes would get stuck to the walls of the buildings? Why were they so clad in black head to toe the one who sees them says like the crows from a distance? There is a difference, it does not mean unequality but why try to make all that applies to men apply to us or all that apply to us must apply to them? No I don’t believe it.
And I don’t see the point of always comparing the talk of women to that of men, we are halves to each other, but the truth is mostly people focus on the chastity of women more than men because it is harder to hide if something happends.
How many girls are doing surgeries to repair or saying that were raped or or just to save themselves the humiliation of a past they regret? Men don’t have to worry about it being so obvious, if Allah gave the tawba and sitr they just continue with it. A girl on the other hand has to figure something out. It is harder to fix the past for a girl. We hope that Muslim men are knowledgable and kind enough to know that all people make mistakes, but I think when it comes to chastity it is really hard for both men and women to accept that the other was not. It creates many natural bad feelings.
I think you have my words and giving them other meanings than intended. I do not like that.
"with the dish, the VCR and the VCP, the cable, the net, one does not need to send anyone to live alone in order to have Satan whisper in one's ears."
This concept is not my own, I took it from a hadeeth. And it does not refer to SENDING to live alone, but also as to where you are do not live alone. The fiqh of which that yes, when you live alone you are more open to lonliness, being more easily temptated, and you don’t have the same protection and support as when there is people around. This hadeeth is narrated by Ahmad if you want to read more about it. (I think it is 92/2)
The prophet peace be upon him tells the truth, regardless of the variables you mention. Moreover, why not advice people to get rid of the bad things or to use them properly, instead of just having two wrongs in an attempt to make a right? Why not spead the advice to have Islamic environments at home instead of saying that? I don’t see a logic there. So because there are temptations at home, might as well let them get exposed to more outside? Why not just say let’s cut back on the bad things at home and avoid more?
"Wasn't zina being committed before Muslimahs started accepted places at Universities?"
I don’t understand what this has to do with it? No body said zina started because Muslimas are going to universities, but the number of muslimas that are committing zina is higher when they are away from home and have no one to account to and are exposed to different temptations and environments and no good friends. You cannot deny that zina is becoming more widespread in Muslims both boys and girls. In fact it is just as prophet Muhammad peace be upon him prphesized as a major sign of the last day. And you can argue that this sending them to non-muslim countries to study on their own has nothing to do with it, but I think it is more valid to relate them as these changes occurred in our Muslim societies at the same time. Both the focus on getting a western education and the zina and western style of living became popular and prevelant at once. Not long ago maybe even just 60 years ago, it wasn’t as widespread and acceptable even in western countries to go all the way and to have babies outside of marriage. And now it is, and they are invading our lands and minds with these values as well. And we are still giving our own children to trust in their hands to “educate”.
"Because of this, I was for a long time against the veil."
I would have expected this to make someone to become more conservative in the matter of women traveling alone, not to go the opposite way of what Allah commands on both counts, traveling and hijab?! Two wrongs don’t make a right and Allah promised in the Quran that it is a protection to muslim women. Alhemdulilah it sounds you are not thinking that way anymore anyway.
"Wouldn't it be better for Muslimahs to become medical doctors, so they could treat other Muslimahs? Wouldn't it be better for them to be teachers? Education is necessary for all."
You said it! It is NOT necessary for all, yet there is hardly any Muslim family that hesitates to send them off in the name of education. They don’t even give them an Islamic education first or a good root in memorizing and study of quran before they go in order to learn to serve the deen. I doubt every Muslima who has gone to get an education became something that necessates a fard kifaya. (meaning if a few do it, it is not obligatory on everybody else to try to as well) Mostly it just degrees that opens up the doors to worldly gains and not the service of the Muslim world. And the point is why don’t’ they study anything online or at home country living with their parents? It is just becoming trendy and our own values have become that it is a better education in the west. Why don’t they study Arabic and teach it? It is the language of the Quran and becoming a lost language when Muslims all over the world knew it at one point. And even non-muslims who come to muslim universities to learn.
"Now this is the time of fitnah, and the fitnah has entered our homes. If you put too much restrictions on your children, they are likely to rebel, or just try to taste the forbidden fruit when they get the freedom to live alone. If you demonstrate to them what it might mean, they would probably pause before doing such an act"
I don’t understand. Are you saying explain to them what it might mean but let them go? Why not “demonstrate to them what it might mean” to go off to a kafir land to study alone? There is a way to do this. I suspect the problem is that people don’t raise their kids in an Islamic upbringing and so it becomes difficult or not an issue to bring it up when they are at that age. But had they started at an early age it. There is a middle ground. You don’t need to either put too many restrictions on them so that they rebel. I think if you explain since they are children why and what is the wisdom behind how we live as Muslims, you won’t face that problem as teens. Besides this world is a prison to the believers and a garden for the kafir because of how we do restrict ourselves, it is not in rain and pointless though, it makes for a happiness in the heart that cannot be gotten any other way. If you make sure they live and feel this, they won’t inshaAllah care to try something else. A joy that lasts a few hours and can cause pain and heartache and disease and whatnot other than guilty feelings is just not worth it.
And in fact in times of fitna it is better to stay at home. It is the place of refuge in fitnas. The hadeeth says it:
æÞÇá Õáì Çááå Úáíå æ Óáã : " ÓáÇãÉ ÇáÑÌá ãä ÇáÝÊäÉ Ãä íáÒã ÈíÊå " .
You can protect yourself, create a certain environment, and stop others from harming you and you to harm them.
"Women should try to travel in at least twos, if possible. If you keep them away from the world, they may not be able to fend for themselves, or defend themselves in times of need. "
That is your opinion brother. The hadeeth states that a woman should not take up a journey of over three nights alone, without the company of a mehram relation. While other narratives simply state that a woman should not take up any journey without the company of a mehram relation. A close look at these narratives, in the perspective of the social directives of the Qur’an and those ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh), it actually seems that the regardless whether the hadeeth constitutes a part of the Shari`ah or an advice; it is crucial to Muslim women to be very careful in all such matters that may, in any way, effect her reputation.
In my opinion, the Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have directed women to avoid traveling alone so that no one gets an opportunity to spread a negative word about her and thereby defame a chaste woman. It should also be noted that these narratives actually relate to taking up long journeys, not to staying away from one’s home. Taking up journeys, especially in the times of the Prophet (pbuh) was not an easy task. It had its inherent dangers and hazards. It seems that the Prophet (pbuh) actually advised Muslim women to avoid taking up these inherent dangers of a long journey alone. And since it is much safer and easier nowadays it maybe concluded that under certain conditions it is permissible. This does not negate that what is better is to have a mehram. Moreover, this particular aspect does not change the ruling on her staying away from her home, which only changes under certain conditions of its own.
"And this increasingly monogamous world with a lower life expectancy for men, means a large number of women will have to fend for themselves."
This reply applies to a lot of other posts who simply emphasize “education” as an Islamic concept but ignore other factors, like chocolat, yes we are encouraged to learn but at what cost?:
Economic prosperity is related to "taqwa" fear of God and "tawakkal" trust in Allah. "And he who fears Allah-He will make for him a way out. And will provide for him from where he expects not. And he who puts his trust in Allah-He is sufficient for him. Verily, Allah will accomplish His purpose. For every thing has Allah appointed a measure." (65:2-3)
In another translation:
Such is the admonition given to him who believes in Allah and the Last Day. And for those who fear Allah, He (ever) prepares a way out
And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if anyone puts his trust in Allah, sufficient is (Allah) for him. For Allah will surely accomplish His purpose: verily, for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion.
Acquisition of knowledge is enjoined on every Muslim, man and woman, as a child and even when grown up. The Quran directs every one to also pray, "O my Lord, increase me in knowledge." (20:115). The State has to provide compulsory free educational up to a functional level to every one. This is true for most Muslim countries. They have at least till high school provided for free.
In the Quran, Allah has repeatedly used the word "provision of Allah" instead of earnings of man, and this is the "bounty of Allah" which can be attracted only by observing His commandments, in letter and spirit. There is a very strong concept of permissible means of livelihood for which detailed guidance has been provided in Islam. There is absolutely no room for devious ways of business, malpractice and corruption of any kind and these have to be curbed effectively.
There is a hadeeth that means: “if only” starts the work of shaytan. And I cannot help but feel this is what you guys are doing. If only this person had an education than she would have a job, etc. I am married and my husband is 10 years older than I and we have no children. I do not carry the burden of who will provide fro me if he dies before me, and I ask Allah that both are ends be good and glad tidings, since he is NOT the provider. It is Allah alone. Yes, I do my part and first I have tawakkul, in this case, I am teaching myself hard things to make. I save them and will sell them if I ever have to. And like most muslim ladies I have family and can always alhemdulilah rely on them for support even if temporary until I figure out the next step. I don’t understand why people pretend as though these girls will be on the street without an education.
Many people act as though education is the only answer, yet often people graduate and flip burgers because their degrees are useless to them. I know some kid who graduated 8 years ago and still not getting a career. And why is it such a stigma to work non-career jobs anyway? By Allah, I would rather keep my daughter safe from these environments and if we alllllll died she get a job that is enough to help her survive than to expose her to all unnecessary evil “just in case on day…”. Also, why not stay with your family and get a degree in the country you are in? If you have tawakkul and just need to do your part then a degree at home is enough “taking the reasons” (al-akhth bil asbab) or to get an online degree. Why jeopardize your faith for fears that are not even solidified. Maybe if you fear Allah, he will send you someone to take care of you that is better than the marriage you were in before?
"And there is no creature that moves in the earth but it is for Allah to provide it with sustenance. And He knows its lodging and its home. All this is recorded in a clear Book." (11:7)
If you fully internalize this and make sure your most important goal and the top of your worries is deen, then you have nothing to worry about. It is not by your strength, knowledge or education that you get as much as you do or you even get to survive. It is by Allah alone. Otherwise little birds would not have been able to eat a worm with the presence of falcons.
This is an authentic (saheeh) hadeeths that is often neglected:
"ãä ßÇäÊ ÇáÏäíÇ åãå ÝÑÞ Çááå Úáíå ÃãÑå æÌÚá ÝÞÑå Èíä Úíäíå æáã íÃÊå ãä ÇáÏäíÇ ÅáÇ ãÇ ßÊÈ áå æãä ßÇäÊ ÇáÂÎÑÉ äíÊå ÌãÚ Çááå áå ÃãÑå æÌÚá ÛäÇå Ýí ÞáÈå æÃÊÊå ÇáÏäíÇ æåí ÑÇÛãÉ"
It means something like: whoever makes this worldly concerns the top of his worries, Allah will divide his energies and make him always see that he is in want and in the end will not take more from this life than what Allah has ordeained. And whoever keeps his intention on the akhira Allah will focus him his issues and will leave his heart in a state of richness and this dunya will come to him forced by Allah!
And I think this is a hadeeth qudsi:
"íÇÈä ÇÏã ÎáÞÊß áÚÈÇÏÊí ÝáÇ ÊáÚÈ æÞÓãÊ áß ÑÒÞß ÝáÇ ÊÊÚÈ
ÝÇä ÇäÊ ÑÖíÊ ÈãÇ ÞÓãÊå áß ÇÑÍÊ ÞáÈß æÈÏäß æÚÞáß æßäÊ ÚäÏí ãÍãæÏÇ¡
æÇä áã ÊÑÖó ÈãÇ ÞÓãÊå áß ÇÊÚÈÊ ÞáÈß æÈÏäß æÚÞáß æßäÊ ÚäÏí ãÐãæãÇ .....
ÝæÚÒÊí æÌáÇáí áÃÓáØä Úáíß ÇáÏäíÇ ÊÑßÖ ÝíåÇ ÑßÖ ÇáæÍæÔ Ýí ÇáÈÑíå Ëã áÇ íßæä áß ãäåÇ ÇáÇ ãÇÞÓãÊå áß "
Oh my servants I have created you to worship so do not waste your time
And I have ordained to you your provision already so do not exhaust your selves
If you become disasstisfied with what I have measured for you, I will make your heart, body and mind tired and you will be lowly with me
And I swear by my majesty that I will make you run in this world like the running of beasts after what you want and in the end you do not gain a thing more than what I have ordained and measured for you.
I realize we all have opinions on these issues, and they are afterall opinions. But whatever happened to Allah’s command to believing men and womem: “stay away from questionable as much as you can” (ittaqoo ilshubuhat masta6a3tom) or the fiqh ruling that in any situation keeping away what is harmful to one’s religion is preceeded to bringing a benefit. (Dar’il mafasid yoqaddam 3ala jalb ilmasali7) What is the point to call ourselves believers and then we favor opinions and culture and worldy gains and whatever else more than trying to come as close as we can to the ideal. I realize we cannot live it fully, but why spread opinions that encourage something far away from the it either? Why not encourage people to be do better in deen to fear Allah?
I am not sure if you reply was to my post.
Again no one said it is THE ONLY reason for zina, but it is not encouraged in Islam for people to stay alone even in their home town, never mind to have women living alone in a bad environment with no support or family.
"I dont think locking daughters up in their houses is the solution (not that their staying alone is always correct). They are going to have to come into contact with the outside world sometime. I mean, what if the hubby is to go out of town for a week or a month 4 some training or something, is he supposed 2 lock the wife in or take her along everywhere."
This is what bothers me sometimes in replies. I don’t think anybody said lock them up. And staying alone is never correct, but is sometimes necessary. Who is to say that a Muslim girl who stays living with her parents and get an education where she is will be so isolated? Who is to say that she is not the one who drives and get the groceries to help her mother and father? Why can’t she take care of herself if her husband is away? It is not so black and white. Either lock them up or you have to put them in a situation to fend for themselves all on their own to prepare them in case something happens.
"As for women not being able 2 travel alone, that is about physical security and is besides the point"
It is not besides the point, it is a great issue. It is not just security physically that they are putting on the line but spiritually as well in danger. And it is not about security alone, the good reputation and chastity of a Muslim sister is worth the world and whatever is in it in the eyes of Allah.
We have a group in the university here that is part of the MSA who is trying to cut back on all this adultery and alcohol drinking that is widespread in the university. I guess if it isn’t happening so much, there wouldn’t be a need for this group, so no point denying that they are related. Living abroad in an environment that is new to you completely with such different values, having no Muslim support, no family to be accountable to, no strong roots in religion is big trouble. We need to take a stand against this as it is really becoming too crazy. The prophet peace be upon him said that Allah will ask every person who is responsible on that which s/he was responsible for did s/he protect or lose/waste it, even a man is asked about his own family members.
ÞÇá Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã : " Åä Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÓÇÆá ßá ÑÇÚ ÚãÇ ÇÓÊÑÚÇå ÃÍÝÙ Ðáß Ãã ÖíÚå ¡ ÍÊì íÓÃá ÇáÑÌá Úä Ãåá ÈíÊå " .
Anyway, there is more to reply to like the abullahcohn post that is way off the polar wrong in my mind. But enough people have said something about it, and not enough to other posts. So I ask Allah to accept this discussion from all of us as a means to educate ourselves and others. I just really wish instead of spreading advice to support the education of muslim women in the west, is for people to spend that energy advising muslims to create education that is available in muslim countries for them. Like working with the ikhwan almuslimeen like amro khaled in creating better education, mentality and options, and manufacturing in our own lands. It is closer to what is right. Why encourage others to something that, by Allah, is harmful to them, there are boys here asking my husband what is the difference between our God and their god? And why is Islam violent?!!!! They don’t just teach them information but also values. Education is a means to an end, and it is not a goal at all costs.
And Tooba is for the one who can control his tongue, his home was enough for him and cried for his own mistakes.
ÞÇá Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã : " ØæÈì áãä ãáß áÓÇäå æ æÓÚå ÈíÊå æ Èßì Úáì ÎØíÆÊå " ÊÎÑíÌ ÇáÓíæØí (ØÕ Íá) Úä ËæÈÇä. ÊÍÞíÞ ÇáÃáÈÇäí (ÍÓä) ÇäÙÑ ÍÏíË ÑÞã: 3929 Ýí ÕÍíÍ ÇáÌÇãÚ .
|amazing double life ...|
|05/06/05 at 20:05:58|
first of all brother bhaloo and sister amatullah, I value your posts greatly because of the authentic AHadeeth that you quote. This is not to say that the others' posts are of less value to me. They give me insights, too.
I have learnt that the world is constantly in a flux, changes and exposure to uncertain and unknown courses will occur. Taking the case of veiled women in prepartition Indo-Pak subcontinent, the Muslim woman was unaware of her rights, was exploited, and was very frightened. She was thus vulnerable. She could not always be in a house. Natural calamities like famine and epidemics occur, the male breadwinner in the house may die, she may be divorced and turned out of her house, riots may break out, etc.
For this reason alone the female must have knowledge of the outside world, and the confidence to deal with it.
When the ideal Khilafa comes, things will be different, but what of today?
There are women and young girls on the streets begging. And they do get propositioned for a temporary liasion, and they do accept these. Why do they beg? Why doesn't the Ummah look after them? Until the Ummah does that, what will become of them? Was there a time when it was taken care of? Why and how has that time changed?
I am not saying that Muslim women should be parcelled off to the West for education. There are Muslim women already in the West. Don't they need to be educated, and with the means to support them? There are some very fine young (and not so young) women, yet they grow old, without a reasonable offer of marriage. I said reasonable, because an offer of marriage from an old person would be unreasonable, as he would be a burden, not source of strength.
Correct me if I am wrong but did not the prophet [saw] say that a woman would travel from Madinah to Yemen with gold, and wouldn't fear anyone. That shows to me that we should aspire to and work for such a society, rather than restrict women to the home.
My sisters all went through University education, even staying in hostels, and the clan wasn't at all supportive. Yet where were they when my father died, and his widow and young children needed support? Two of my cousin sisters lived out all their lives under our mutual uncle's house, and they contracted TB before they died young. That is the reality of life. Within the house many are suppressed.
It isn't only for the economics that women should get education. Education opens the mind. They must know the world, so that when they are exposed to its evil on their own, they are able to defend themselves. If they are ignorant of it, when they fall on difficult times, they will not know what to do and where to go.
A the kutcheri (courts), I see young women in full hijab, and in lawyers robes, arguing the case of their clients. Many of these clients are female, who wouldn't be able to relate their problems to a male.
Yet I will look at your arguments and the AHadith you have quoted again carefully.
|05/06/05 at 20:24:56|
|I miss this place….|
|05/13/05 at 12:37:57|
This issue ALWAYS makes my blood boil for some reason I can’t comprehend. Really, I don’t know why it just makes me want to scream and y’all know I can’t scream even if my life depended on it so it’s really frustrating. But the subject line caught my eye and I had to read everyone’s post and respond. I agree with all the Sister’s posts and most of the Bros (thank you for your support).
But to the Bro who don’t think so? You will soon learn that the sisters on this board do not take this issue so lightly. I feel sorry for you cause I am one of those sisters.
Marry our daughters as soon as they reach puberty….follow the footsteps of Aisha (RA). You know what? If our Prophet (SAW) came up to me and asked for my daughter’s hand in marriage, I’d be so honored and not hesitate for even a millisecond to let it be.
But tell me this, can you? Where in the whole freakin’ messed up world would you find a man suitable to take the Prophet’s (SAW) place? Where? Cause if you know one, I’ll advertise my daughter right now. You know….it’s strange really. When we tell our husbands or brothers or sons to go and pray at the Masjid that is a few feet away (literally), they reply, I can’t go to the Masjid all the time. I am not the Prophet (SAW) and don’t expect me to be. All I can say is….”So? What’s your point? We don’t expect you to be the Prophet (SAW), but we do expect you to follow in his footsteps.
What I’m trying to say is that….when Aisha (RA) was married to the Prophet (SAW) at an early age, it wasn’t because she was fooling around or anything of the sort, it was a decree from Allah (SWT). You can’t compare her early marriage to our day and age. I have nothing against young marriages. Mom married at 14 and she is happy. We can follow in her footsteps but her reason for marriage has nothing to do with this article and it’s NEVER going to be a reason for any girl to marry early. To marry early is from a hadith for both men and women if they are found to be active in…..you know….and that’s it. Nothing else. And the marriage between Aisha (RA) and the Prophet (SAW) was to let us know that age does not matter between the couple.
I think I’m going way off the subject…..so to the subject:
I always felt that I did not need a mahram because I could take care of myself. My faith is strong. This is true at most times growing up, but believe you me, if I had a strong mahram, I’d be named a Saint. I do admit that there were times when temptation got the better of me because of my curiosity, but it really does depend on the person “We are alone accounted for our actions.” because no mahram could’ve stopped me being the stubborn woman that I am. I WILL DO WHAT I WANT TO DO. The only thing that stopped me was the fear of Allah (SWT) and His (SWT) wrath upon me. I’d rather be punished on this Earth then in Hellfire. And I’ve had my shares of deserved punishment.
It really does depend on the person. Parents are not to blame. Society is. Actually it isn’t. It’s ourselves. Scientifically, us humans are born aggressive with primitive behavior, it is our growing up that molds us to the person we are today. If no one was there to nurture our growth, we’d end up like barbaric cavemen and commit crime without guilt. Our parents, guardians, teachers, television, especially education imbedded in our minds helps us to understand the difference between right and wrong.
“What they don’t know won’t hurt them.” That was me growing up. I knew what Mom expected of me and I did what she expected of me. Education and a good husband was her goal for me as it is mine as it is what I expect for my girls and boys vice versa, insha-Allah. When I speak of education, I don’t just mean academically now, I mean in Islam as well. Actually education in Islamic knowledge is the most important goal. With this education, we have the means to make the right choices. Choices that will lead us to Jannah, insha-Allah. I also went to co-ed public schooling. But because I knew my religion from my religious upbringing, I didn’t do anything that was haram (insha-Allah).
However, as I got older, and Mom no longer had responsibility over my actions and religion teaching in a classroom was at a stop, my curiosity of “I know it’s wrong, but….” I blame it on Satan and my weak judgment when Satan whispers to do it anyways. I never had a boyfriend or drank alcohol or anything like that and I did not lead a double life either but if I did not get married at 18, I might’ve if I hadn’t found religion at an early age.
However, to tell you the truth….why I did the things I regretfully did….it was because growing up…no matter how many times people would tell me otherwise….I did it because I was jealous of the boys. Us girls grow up watching boys play outside, wear shorts, flirt with girls, go off on their own with their guy friends and sometimes girlfriends, go off to school to become successful men….basically have fun and why do they get away with this? Why do parents allow it? Because every answer a mother or father will tell you is….so they can get it out of their system before they get married. Like marriage was a horrible prison cause that’s what parents do to us girls growing up. Raise us to be perfect housewives….prison housewives….that’s all they see and most Muslim men see it that way as well like abdullahcohn. Marriage to me was a bad thing and being a boy was the greatest thing. I did it because I wanted to have the same freedom as the boys and get away with it. BUT THEN…I found out how stupid I was and just looked for the answers from Allah (SWT) and went back to being a girl because “Jannah lies under your mother’s feet.” Now how great is that?
But yeah….I believe that the girls lead double lives because they see that the boys do not and get away with it. Might as well too right? Not because they want to be a boy, but because they want to have the same kind of fun. Mahram or no mahram, they’ll find a way because we have a system that needs to come out as well. Only the strong willed can control it which al-Hamdulillah most Muslimahs have and very few men do.
Until the girls truly understand Islam, they’ll keep at this life and then it might be too late. You’ll have your fun in do time. Just be patient and Allah (SWT) will grant you everything you desire whether it’s here or the afterlife. And if it’s in the afterlife then it’s OK because we all know there is one. It’s not like you’re going to live forever. Now why can’t men understand that or do they and they just don’t care or think that Allah (SWT) is going to forgive them no matter what? Really guys…..I blame it on you after I blame it on Satan and before I blame it on myself (girls).
Heh heh heh….seriously. You are to blame. >:(
Allah (SWT) bless…..
|subjects used to fill automatically.....|
|05/13/05 at 16:25:02|
It’s not like you’re going to live forever. Now why can’t men understand that or do they and they just don’t care or think that Allah (SWT) is going to forgive them no matter what? Really guys…..I blame it on you after I blame it on Satan and before I blame it on myself (girls).
Heh heh heh….seriously. You are to blame. >:(
You can't blame guys for what girls are doing. Honestly, they (girls) are not stupid. They know they shouldnt go clubbing or be drinking or commit zina. Whatever someone does, they should blame it on no one but themselves. Maybe someone had influence on them, but in the end you walk the path that you choose. People are smart enough to make their own decisions.
I'm not saying that the guys who do all that are justified or innocent, but come on you can't be telling me that it's their fault that these girls are doing haram things.
|05/13/05 at 16:25:50|
|05/13/05 at 18:03:29|
I hate this article with a passion, it's a gem of the daily mail. I bought the paper during a moment of utter stupidity and spent the rest of the afternoon wishing I hadn't, that's how I know (mind you, I did line the bin with it, so some good came of it in the end).
The Daily Mail; being a right wing, bigoted piece of rubbish. Is always, but always printing crappy pieces like this article. Pieces that undermine Islam, it appears to delight in showing up the Muslimah's especially.
Personally I do not think the article is representative of the norm. I'm university educated and in my time at uni, I never met even one girl who went so completely off the rails as these girls claim to have done.
Imho I do not think locking up anyone male or female is going to do the slightest bit of good. It merely makes the outside world, the duniya more enticing.
I think the main problem, lies in the fact that these girls have obviously not been properly educated Islamically. They probably had the same madrassa experience as I did (if at all), we learnt everything parrot fashion. I can recite quite a good part of the Quran, but up till I took the initiative (well after I left madrassa), I couldn't have told you what it was I was reciting.
[quote author=bhaloo link=board=ummah;num=1113878330;start=0#0 date=04/18/05 at 22:38:50]"Every Friday I get on a train home to Manchester to stay with my family," she says. "It isn't up for discussion; it is just expected. Before I leave, I tidy myself up, make sure I don't smell of drink or cigarettes, and head home to play the dutiful daughter, helping my mother in the kitchen, attending mosque and sitting with my parents' guests." [/quote]
Can anyone on this board seriously even consider saying the above in one sentance, if I were doing any of the above I'd curl up and die before setting foot in a mosque, just because it's a place where one is more aware of the presence of Allah [swt]!!!
Which is why I think the paper is exagerating more than a little.
Education is very important both Islamic and the university kind, I'm neither a teacher nor a doctor, but I do command a high salary. My education and earning potential is there just in case. This isn't to say I do not have faith in the Almighty, but as the saying goes, 'Tie your camel and trust in Allah'.
Despite the potential for meeting with fitnah we have to live in this world, and in my experience it completely shocks non-muslim people to meet an educated Hijaab wearing Muslimah.
The above article imho is just to try and provoke outrage, lock up your girls they are obviously not fit to be let out into the wide world, then it's easier for the daily mail readers of the world to express outrage at the oppression of women that those muslims endulge in. The fact of the matter is the editor of the paper (who also owns several porn titles) would like for these girls to be a representative proportion of Muslimah's, put simply they are not.
Whoever it was who said girls should learn to make chapatti's instead, ought to do the same himself, anyone who wishes to eat, should learn to cook. It is a misconception that a Muslimah has to cook and clean, the husband has to provide his wife with a home, he should also provide food too, most women do the home making because some are better at it (certainly in this household we'd have died of food poisoning long ago if my husband had done the cooking). It also makes for a pleasant life to do the role one is expected, but to try and say that ones wife is an unpaid skivvy is not on.
I have a right to an education as much as my brother, we both have to live in this world.
Besides which, I challenge any educated man to marry and remain happy with an uneducated woman. I bet you at some point you will find your wife an embarrassment......
Personally, I would not send my child male or female to learn overseas alone. All my children are getting university education Inshallah, but they are also going to the local Islamic school, where they will do the Aalim(a) course alongside the mainstream subjects Inshallah.
Despite trying ones hardest, all a parent can really do is provide their child with a good education and pray to Allah that their child will stay on the right path, it is very easy to stray, and no amount of mollycoddling is going to stop someone who is set on going down that route. A supportive home environment is also essential, these girls obviously, don't think much of their family either to be endulging in this kind of behaviour. Both boys and girls should be treated the same when being instructed about their Islamic duty. I believe Zina is difficult to prove either of a male or a female, unless the girl gets pregnant (perhaps hence the four witness clause(?)). Either way, the parent who turns a blind eye to their sons misdemeanours is going to be answering for their actions to Allah the same as the parent of a girl.
|05/13/05 at 18:07:13|
|05/14/05 at 02:48:38|
Well said Sis Fozia. Have a bebzi. 
As to Bro Ahmad…
I know very well that we (girls) are not stupid. Well, most of us anyways. I’ve known some really stupid girls who’ve made stupid decisions. Stupid is as stupid does. Cause then you have those girls who are blinded by love and deceitful men.
I still blame Muslim guys for the troubles us Muslim girls have to go through. It’s just not fair DANG it!!! *sarcasm*
(BUT if you noticed, in my earlier statement, I said “We are alone accountable for our actions.”) The last statement was just a bit of bad sarcasm. Forgive me if you took it to heart. You should know me by now. If I meant it, I would’ve said so. Then again, I forgot to mention that I was being sarcastic too.
Allah (SWT) bless….
|05/14/05 at 11:01:18|
Oh lol sry... I have a friend who talks like that, only she's actually serious, so I'm used to arguing with her about it ::) my bad
|Root Cause of the Problem .....|
|05/18/05 at 06:09:17|
Well I don't know why everybody likes firing at each other on this board just wondering if everybody had his/her own Kalashankov (Russian made gun) how would be the expected picture of so called Madina City?
Anyway comming back to the original topic I think we are missing the root cause of the problem. Some are saying that's due to the double standards what usually parents follow while bringing their kids up, there is another point of view that we are having this problem due to lack of good education, others are saying it's due to bad environment what they are in and some members even made it problem of gender inequality or male Vs female problem.
The main point what we are missing or maybe don't want to talk about is that basic responsibility of teaching ethics and morals rest with parents. I think there is a hadith that if a young man or woman commit adultory before getting married then their parents share the responsibility of their actions. If father and mother are busy in making money and collecting dunia and kids are left in day care centres, boarding-schools and hostels to get EDUCATION then the EDUCATION what they learn from those institutions is very much evident from the article. The basic university, Madrassa and learning institute is MOTHER herself and if anyone fails to learn from that institution then I doubt he/she can be enlighntened by anyone else.
Once Hazrat Ali (RAU) said, "Give me good mothers, I'll return you good nation".
There is another example when a person came to Hazrat Umar (RAU) he complained about his son who was not obidient to him. Hazrat Umar (RAU) called him and his son togather and explained the rights what parents have over their children. The son asked, "Do I have any right over my father?" Hazrat Umar (RAU) replied, "Offcourse Yes, your first right on your father is that he must find a pious mother for you. Your second right is he must provide you halal living. And your third right is he must get you good brought up and education".
I am just wondering if any father fullfills his obligations then is there any room for so called double life or other problems what muslims have been facing today .....
|05/18/05 at 06:10:42|
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