// Advice on a situation
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Mais
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« on: Aug 12, 2008 04:26 AM »


Asalaamu Alaikum,

I was wondering if I could get some advice....When I married my husband he was still in school and was expecting to graduate with in a couple of months but because his advisor he ended up graduating 2 years into our marriage. While he was in school I didn't want him to have to work to support us on top of his school responsibilities so I persuaded him to allow me to work 25-30 hrs a week, thinking that he would graduate any month now but as I said, it took him much longer than expected.

Now he is done with school and is looking for a job. The semester is going to start soon and he got a job offer for a University that wants him to start right away but he doesn't like the money that's being offered (even though it's about 3 times what I'm making now with my job). Because of the semester starting soon I don't think he'll get an offer after this one (of course it's up to Allah). We are really struggling to make ends meet and I would love for him to take the job. I know it's up to him but I don't like my job. There is a gay guy at my work that walks around singing all day and I really want to quit but I can't until my husband finds a job.

He gets really angry if I seem to pressure him into doing something and I don't want to manipulate him but it's his responsibility to support me and it's not like he would be stuck at this university forever. It would help him build his resume, be better for us financially and he says that he really likes the university and it's curriculum. Is there anything you can advise me to do? Should I just keeping working and not say anything?

Thanks,
Nichole
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« Reply #1 on: Aug 12, 2008 09:06 AM »

wsalam,

You should tell him you're going to quit at the end of this month. Then it's up to him to decide whether or not it's worth it. It is easier to find a new job while you have one btw. Maybe once he realizes there's no money coming in he'll be more quick to accept job offers!!
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 12, 2008 10:15 AM »

salam

I don't know, he may negotiate the salary before signing in the contract.  If the university likes him, they will do any thing to keep him happy.  It sounds like he is applying for a teaching position.  Try to remind him that these positions are hard to come by and that it is great to have been able to secure an offer. 

Ask him to pray istikharah few times before he makes a final decision.  Refer to this on how to pray istikharah.

May Allah make things easy on you. 

take care
wassalam
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 12, 2008 10:22 AM »

It's really difficult to say anything to a person when they get angry!!  

I think there's no doubt that he should take the job (even if money was no issue, having gaps on a resume can be very bad for a future career).  He can always resign when he finds something better, and inshaAllah he will.

Don't pressure him -- but the message needs to come across somehow.  Maybe a friend of his can help? Or make a spreadsheet of the pros and cons of taking the job Smiley  I think you don't have to tell him that it's his responsibility to support you -- men are usually very painfully aware of this fact.  Concentrate on HIM, and why it would be good for HIM.

I understand that he might not want to get stuck in a certain job and then have to continue in the same direction, but it's still better than being unemployed even for another month.  Also he may not want to quit on them unexpectedly during the middle of the semester when something else arises, but I think university jobs can be flexible? (I don't know..)  if the need arises, when he gets a new job, he can negotiate a contract whereby he's wrapping up the university semester.  It NEVER hurts to ask.

Istikhara is the way to go.

I really hope that your husband doesn't go through any space of time where he's unemployed -- it's VERY hard for men (somehow women cope better in this situation).  My brother and dad have both been through it, and it really bums them out.  They become irritable and morose, and very pessimistic Sad
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 12, 2008 12:17 PM »

salam

He's been offered a job in the field he wants, at a university he likes, with a curriculum he approves of he should take it. He could possibly negotiate pay before signing the contract, do they let you do that there?

I'd do as Sr. Jannah advises, hand your notice in at work, and tell your husband you are 100% behind his decision to do whatever he chooses, and you appreciate his understanding the fact that you cannot continue to work where you currently do as it is not longer bearable.

He should support you exactly as he expects you to support him in his decisions.

Btw, nobody bar the very lucky are going to walk into their dream jobs, at their expected salary, some compromise should be expected when first entering ones chosen field.


Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 12, 2008 01:56 PM »

If she quits her job... then what are they to live on?
You can say it is the husbands responsibility- and Islamically it is.
But then there is reality of a dead beat job hunter.....

"Allah surely knows the warmth of every teardrop... " Jaihoon
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« Reply #6 on: Aug 12, 2008 04:42 PM »

The job market right now is such that VERY FEW if ANY people will get the job they want at the salary they want.. MANY, MANY, MANY people are struggling because they can't even find ANY job in their field, or ANY job that makes enough to pay the bills.

If he finds a job making 3x what you are making, it would be snobby not to accept it and have you slave away at work for 1/3 of what he could be making at a job he just throws away, and in his field, too! Without any experience, he should have leapt at the opportunity to gain experience in his field at a salary that many would probably cut off their right arm for at this point with the economy being so bad.

I don't know.. It's like the other thread on parents demanding only doctors and lawyers for their daughters.. Maybe some will find what they want but he will be a jerk.. Others will miss the opportunity of good men because they don't fit the specific criteria of income the parents want. It's the same with job searching..

Right now, can't afford to be too picky, and don't employers know it? Even one offer is a blessing in these times. It's not the 80's or even a few years back when it was a job-hunters market. Now, the bosses have the upper hand and everything, I tell you, everything is a gift!

Honestly, my first job I was making 35K/yr at 18 years old.. Now, I am lucky to find anything that pays in the 30's and I have 8yrs experience and a degree. I got laid off at my last two jobs because of the economy.. I need to go back to school and get a specific career path like nursing or the like because even people like my husband with two MBA's are struggling to find anything.. Add to that difficulty if you are foreign looking, with a foreign name, or have an accent or if you are a woman who wears hijab and modest dress..

God, people don't count their blessings! There is not always a better opportunity around the corner!

Insha'allah your husband will see a good opportunity and take it. Like another poster said, he can look for something else while he has a job and is supporting his family. That would be the logical thing to do!

I try to remember to count my blessings each day because I have many:

To be thankful for my health, and that of my loved ones, the presence of my husband and the continuation of our marriage, that we can pay our bills and have food on the table..

So many blessings but often, so little thanks!
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« Reply #7 on: Aug 12, 2008 06:45 PM »

salaam

I agree, just say this job is becoming unbearable and you are not able to work anymore and by the end of the month your job ends.  Be strong and firm about it and make it looks as if it is out of your hands and you cannot do anything about it

whats going to happen if money is not coming in?  Let him worry about it.  He will do something.

One thing I learned is dont pressure or worry, just let him deal with it and you do your part my praying and putting your trust in Allah swt.
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« Reply #8 on: Aug 12, 2008 07:26 PM »

May Allah reward all of you for your advice. The situation just got worse it seems.

He got the offer but told them that he wanted 7k more than what they offered (it's a publicly funded university so they have a cap on the pay). Then, he started thinking that this was still too little and he emailed his professor who told him to ask for ever more. My husband then emailed the dean of the university and asked for 60k instead of the 48k offered.

When he told me what he did this morning I was disappointed but I didn't say anything and just started doing my cleaning that I do before work. I then sat down with him and did the math of the offer minus the insurance and showed him that their offer would still be a much better situation then what we're in right now. He yelled at me saying not to compare it to our present situation and then stormed out of the apartment saying that it's his decision, he doesn't have to consult with me only with people who know better and that if I don't like it, too bad, that's just how it is.

I really don't know what I did wrong. I was calm and just voiced my opinion when he asked for it. Maybe I just should have agreed with whatever he said.

Thanks,
Nichole
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« Reply #9 on: Aug 12, 2008 08:04 PM »

salam

Let me get this straight, he got offered a first time job at 48k, sans experience, so he threw a tizz and demanded 60k???


Tell him you've been laid off, and after three weeks you will have no job to go to!!! If that does not spur him on to accept the job, then consider yourself the permanent breadwinner, he wont ever find a good enough job, because he doesn't want to work for a living.





Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #10 on: Aug 12, 2008 09:35 PM »

What kind of teaching job even offers 48k with NO EXPERIENCE?  Shocked

Looking for more is kind of ridiculous! 

I feel bad for you sister Nichole! Undecided

I try to remember to count my blessings each day because I have many:

To be thankful for my health, and that of my loved ones, the presence of my husband and the continuation of our marriage, that we can pay our bills and have food on the table..

So many blessings but often, so little thanks!
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« Reply #11 on: Aug 12, 2008 09:52 PM »

ws,

dudes let him be the man. if ur always criticizing and saying this and that no wonder he left in anger. he knows what he wants and if he doesn't get the job it's ok he'll get another inshaAllah. sometimes coming out of grad school you really have high expectations and you have to adjust and everything. it's ok. the sister should do what she needs to do and let her husband do what he needs to.
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« Reply #12 on: Aug 12, 2008 10:09 PM »

Actually I didn't criticize him at all. I took about 10 mins to collect my thoughts before I talked to him about it and I actullay waited until he asked my opinion rather than just offering it. I wanted to make sure that I didn't approach the situation in a negative way and that it didn't seem that I was telling him what to do, merely asking if he considered the downturn in the economy, the cap on the salary offered in publicly funded unversities, the benefit of experience, that he loved the material, books and syllabus and that the semester is starting in 2 weeks and that this would likely be the last offer from the US.

I know that he was expecting more and I don't blame him. I will utlimately respect whatever he decides but it was horrible to be told that my opinion doesn't matter because I have no idea how these things work and also because I no choice in the matter, even though he asked me what I thought.

Nichole

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« Reply #13 on: Aug 12, 2008 11:02 PM »

salam

Sweetie, have you considered what you would do if he spends a significant amount of time looking for employment???

Have you considered finding a job better suited to you?

I personally do not think you did anything at all wrong in your approach to this, sounds to me like he knows he's being unreasonable, but it's better for him to paint you as the nag instead to asuage his own feelings of guilt at his ridiculous primadonna behaviour!


Try working this situation without considering his earning potential, try making the best of what is available to you (I wanna say a whole lot more but think it best if I dont). Start considering a change in career for yourself, if your current working position is becoming untenable.

Also (and I may get jumped on for this), as your husband is no longer studying, see if you can split household chores in half (if you dont already), as you're working and its insane to expect you to be doing all household stuff too, whilst he probably now has more time than you do.
I'd try and work this in very diplomatically, but quite honestly if he aint bringing home the (turkey) bacon, you cannot be expected to be doing everything.

Or maybe, does he have any sensible family members who could talk sense to him? What kind of jobs have his close friends got?

Out of curiosity where in the world are you, if he is being offered a 48K job and he's not even from the states, he is really crazy to turn the oppurtunity down!


Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #14 on: Aug 12, 2008 11:25 PM »

We're in the US. He's from Jordan but he went to school here. I wouldn't want him to do the chores, it's not the amount of work that's hard since we have a small one bedroom it's not hard at all. Thanks for the suggestion though!

I really can't find another job than this since I only have a GED and no college. Also, I don't have to mix with men, which is nice. My husband told me that if I don't like it here I can quit but we already have a lot of debt (no interest Alhumdulilah) from him going to school and I don't want us to be in a worse financial situation.

I'll just be patient. It was only painful to be asked my opinion and then told that it didn't matter. I really appreciate all of your input sisters.

Nichole
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« Reply #15 on: Aug 13, 2008 01:00 AM »

Okay... honestly.... men and job problems = very sensitive situation.

If he's blowing up and getting angry, the solution cannot be that Nichole quits her job, splits the chores and asks him to take responsibility of her.  That might be terrible advice for a marriage under any sort of external strain (I think this qualifies as an external strain). 

One of you needs to be positive right now, and unfair as it might be, it might have to be you.       

What's the worst that could happen with his 60K request?  The Dean could refuse to raise his salary to that level.  This sort of negotiation is very normal during a hiring process, and it's completely ok to ask for a higher salary (even if at the end they refuse).  If they approve .... great!  If they don't, oh well.   

You have a right to be concerned about the choices he's making - it's your life and future.  But don't let it affect your relationship negatively.   

flowers4u smiles help.

Best of luck, inshaAllah... 
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« Reply #16 on: Aug 13, 2008 01:34 AM »

Alerdalakie.

Nichole
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« Reply #17 on: Aug 13, 2008 01:40 AM »

If you look at it from an Islamic perspective then well you are right, it is his responsiblity to support you so basically its really not his 'choice' whether he should accept the job or not, since he doesnt have it would be obligatory on him to accept it or some other job.

your intention was just to help while he was in college and now you want him to do the work.  That is absolutely not unreasonable.

maybe you can just say that plain to him.

If there are debts let him worry about it, you do not need to. If you let him worry about it maybe he will decide to take this job. But you see you are not letting him be responsible and worry about it because he knows that if he wont take the job you will still take over his responsibility.  That is not exactly helping him in anyway.

salaam
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« Reply #18 on: Aug 13, 2008 09:03 AM »

salam

Actually going by your last post, you seem to like your job enough to hang on in there for a while. And your life at home is fine too apart from your husbands job thing.

Is your husbands target 60k? Will he accept any teaching position offered him if its at that salary? So long as he has a set amount in mind and doesnt keep changing goal posts.

I've got to say we've hired all our lecturers by now, and settled their salaries, no idea how it works in America, but you may have to hang on in there possibly till the begining of the next acamdemic year.

I'd just let him get on with it to be honest, but how long do you find acceptable for your husband to be job hunting for? You may decide on a time limit to yourself before handing over the responsibility of his debts to him and quitting your job (if thats what you ultimately want).

Who is this professor of his who has so much influence over him? If he is goading your husband on to turn down jobs, is he in any positions to pull strings to get your husband a job for 60K??



Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #19 on: Aug 13, 2008 06:50 PM »


Yeah, I'll just keep working. I don't want to stress him anymore than he already must be and Insha'Allah we'll just hope to get something in UAE since they start late this year.

No, I think he'll accept less if it comes down to it but it's just hard to know when the offer you got will be the last since he was offered a position in At Taybah university in Medina last month and he didn't like the pay there either (they were offering 2k less than Saudi law allows  Angry).

I really can't see myself simply quitting and letting him deal with this all. I just don't think that would be good for him (or us in general since stress in a marriage isn't limited to just one person or aspect of home-life).

The professor that advised him on the pay was his professor for his Masters degree and is one of the most well known in the CS field so he really trusts his opinion. He asked his PhD advisor but she didn't help much.

We were supposed to hear back today from the univ but we haven't heard anything. Oh well, Alhumdulilah.

Thanks for all of your responses though!
Nichole
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« Reply #20 on: Aug 13, 2008 08:03 PM »

as salaamu alaykum,

hmm it may be that he's trying to get a lock on a good salary etc to be the 'man' now that he's graduated and to take good care of you... and telling him that he should accept less makes him feel that he is inadequate in some way, unable to provide for you in the luxurious way he has in mind....

could be ... you never know with men... shaykh sometimes they want to do something nice for you, but they don't do it in the way *you* like but the way they think is best/good... go figure  Smiley
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« Reply #21 on: Aug 13, 2008 08:59 PM »

Wa'alaikum salaam se7en,

very true lol

Nichole
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« Reply #22 on: Aug 14, 2008 03:41 AM »

salaam

I think what seven saying could be very true. But I think Mais in her first post was saying that she only worked because she thought he would finish in a couple of months..then it went to 2 yrs. And now when he is finally done he doesnt accept a job offer.
So I think that if  it is bothering you as you said it was in your first post...maybe he doesnt realize that.  He might have really good intentions (altho i think nowadays he is asking way over the limit in the US even if he has high expectations) (it does seem unreasonable) He may think that you are enjoying your job since you continued for a long time and may not realize that you werent trying to insult him but were tired of working.

you have to spell it out because nobody can no your intention or what you are thinking. As I was saying he might have thought that you were comeng to enjoy working ect.
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« Reply #23 on: Aug 15, 2008 12:55 PM »

As salaamu alaikum

This is one of those cases of "enabling" and "being taken advantage of".  The kind gesture of willingness to work while the husband is in school has now resulted in something totally unexpected and for many unacceptable.  It's not even a matter of it being a husband's responsibility to provide so he should take the job because women should always have their own money (in my opinion) but rather he has become both lazy and I dare say arrogant to make salary demands.  Speaking from the foundation of experience I ask "are you sure your husband is being truthful with you?"  The very first thing that prompts this question is how did a few months (I'm guessing a semester) turn into 2 years?  The advisor isn't at fault because if s/he were then that person shouldn't continue being an academic advisor.  So there is something not right in that scenario.   In my own past experience once I found out the truth I hit the roof; made sure it was known I knew the truth and ultimately tossed the lazy lying bum out of my house.  And have no idea if he's living or dead and don't rightly care.  My philosophy is "I can do bad all by myself; I don't need anyone else bringing me down" and life has proven that right.

If you aren't happy in the job you have then seek another one but the money should be treated as your own moving forward with the current job and with a different one.  The one thing I can say is that if the only thing that is troubling you is the "gay guy and his singing" that is something you won't ever get away from.   People from all walks of life can be found in any workplace but that doesn't mean you have to interact with them beyond the professional interaction.

No doubt things will work out but must remain steadfast in what is right and what is unacceptable and not continue to enable your husband by indulging his whim of not wanting to work unless he dictates and gets some excessive salary right out of the starting gate.

Fa'izah
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« Reply #24 on: Aug 16, 2008 12:22 AM »

Asalamualaikum wrt wb,


All praise be to Allah.


May Allah guide us to follow the Sunnah, as it is the road to success and all happiness, in this world and in the hereafter.


From the point of view of Islam, it is not permissible for a husband to force his wife to work outside of the home.  Furthermore, if this work entails working in a mixed environment, or being in contact with those who openly commit evil, such as homosexuality, this work is not permissible, even if the husband permits it.

Although it is good for a wife to seek to please her husband, this should not involve her displeasing her Lord, Allah Most High.  There is no obedience to the created if it involves disobedience to the Creator. 

The Islamic ruling for a woman whose husband asks her to work in a haram environment or in work that is not allowed in Islam, is that she should not obey her husband.  She should ask him to fear Allah, and be content with whatever Allah provides for them.  Whoever gives up something for Allah, Allah will replace it with something better.


If, however, your job does not involve the haram things mentioned, and you are content with supporting your husband until he finds a job, you are entitled to do that.


May Allah guide you and all the Muslims to success in this world and the next.


And Allah knows best.

Be merciful to those on earth, and the One in the Heavens will be merciful to you.
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