// question about the prayers
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Anonymous
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« on: Aug 22, 2008 03:41 AM »


salaam

what is the obligatory rakats in Isha prayer and does maghrib only last for half hour? how long does Asr prayer last?
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« Reply #1 on: Aug 22, 2008 08:42 AM »

Walaikum salam wrt wb,


All praise be to Allah,


Dear questioner,

Your question is a bit confusing.  It appears that you are not to familiar with the way prayers are made.  It depends on the Imam, and how much he decides to recite in each prayer.  He can make it short or long.  However, the Sunnah is to make all the prayers light for the people, and not a hardship.


In the masajid, the prayers usually last 10-15 minutes in total.  Maghrib is generally the lightest of the five prayers in terms of how much quran is recited.

Here is a basic summary:


1. Fajr: 2 Rakats units.

2. Dhuhr:  4 Rakats.

3. Asr:  4 Rakats.

4. Maghrib:  3 Rakats.

5.  Isha:  4 Rakats.


May Allah help us to make our prayers on time with concentration and humbleness.

And Allah knows best.

Be merciful to those on earth, and the One in the Heavens will be merciful to you.
Anonymous
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 28, 2008 08:09 PM »

Assalaam alaikum,

I believe the question is about the range of time for the maghrib prayer, from sunset until darkness, not how long the actual prayer takes.  Allah knows best.
Anonymous
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 30, 2008 12:40 AM »

salaam

jazakAllahu kairon Anon. That is exactly what I meant. I also didnt understand what rakats were fard. Like for example in Isha some people say you only have to pray 4, then 2 sunnah and three witr, but others say you have to pray longer 4,4, 2,2, 3,2
For the other prayers do you have to pray just the fard or is the sunnath obligatory too?

Also what about the prayers you have missed in the past and you are not sure about the number of missed prayers
Anonymous
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 30, 2008 09:58 PM »

Assalamu alaikum wrt wb,


All praise be to Allah.


Bismillah.  Let me try to answer you questions again inshaAllah:


1.)   what is the obligatory rakats in Isha prayer?

Isha has 4 obligatory rakats only.



2.)  and does maghrib only last for half hour?

Maghrib lasts from the time the sun sets below the horizon until the last part of the red leaves the sky.  The amount of time it lasts varies according to geographic location and time of year.



3.)   how long does Asr prayer last?


According to the majority of scholars, the time of Asr begins when the shadow of an object equals its actual height plus the height of its shadow at when the sun is at its zenith.  For example, if a stick is one meter long, and its shadow is 1/2 a meter at zenith, then Asr begins when the stick's shadow is 1 and 1/2 meters long.



4.)   I also didnt understand what rakats were fard. Like for example in Isha some people say you only have to pray 4, then 2 sunnah and three witr, but others say you have to pray longer 4,4, 2,2, 3,2


The numbers I mentioned in the previous post are what are required (Fard).  Anything in addition to that is Sunnah (recommended) according to the majority of the scholars.

The Hanifi school says that Witr is wajib, but the majority say that it is only an established Sunnah.


5.)  For the other prayers do you have to pray just the fard or is the sunnath obligatory too?

Praying the Sunnah is highly recommended, since it will makeup for shortcomings in the Fard on the Day of Judgment.  However, if someone leaves them out, he will not be punished.

According to some Hanifi teachers, abandoning the Sunnah prayers altogether amounts to something reproachable.  However, one should not go to extremes in this matter and claim that the Sunnah prayers are obligatory.  Allah knows best.


6.)  Also what about the prayers you have missed in the past and you are not sure about the number of missed prayers?

The scholars say you have to make ijtihaad (a reasonable estimate) as to how many you missed. 


May Allah reward you and accept from all of our repentance and give us the blessings of the blessed and great month of Ramadan. 

Oh Allah, let us reach Ramadan, and forgive us for all of our past sins.



And Allah knows best.
Anonymous
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 31, 2008 08:02 PM »

salamualaikum

JazakAllahu Kairon

Your answers helped although Im surprised because I thought you had to read witr. And also because we grew up learning you had to read the sunnath. So the sunah makes up for your prayers that you have missed?

After you  made an estimate of how many missed then what do you do?
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« Reply #6 on: Sep 01, 2008 06:14 PM »

Asalamualaikum wrt wb,


All praise be to Allah, who guides to the Straight Path.


I am happy to help dear brother.  The reason why most of the scholars do not consider Witr to be wajib is because the hadith that mention the Arkaan (pillars) of Islam only mention the Salawaat al Khams (five daily prayers) and do not mention witr.  Futhermore, some days the Prophet, may peace and Allah's blessings be upon him, would omit Witr and would pray it in the morning (however he would make it even).

On the Day of Judgment, the first thing to be taken to account for a believer will be his mandatory prayers (Faraid).  If there is any shortcoming in the Faraaid, Allah will look to the Nafl prayers if the person has any, to compensate for shortcomings in their fard.  These shortcomings could be a result of absentmindedness in Salat, improper Wudu, etc.

However, the Ulema state that this does not mean we do not have to make up missed prayers.  Rather, we still have to make them up, but the Nafl prayers serve as a type of safeguard and protection for us on the Day of Judgment.


Once you make a calculation as to approximately how many prayers you missed, you should begin making them up.  You do not have to do them all immediately.  Some scholars recommend you make up one missed prayer with each daily prayer.  So for example, when you prayer Zuhr, pray another 4 Rakats to make up for a Zuhr prayer you missed in the past.

So if you missed 2 years worth of prayers, after two years you will have atoned for your past. 

There is an opinion in the Hanbali school that if you spent a part of your life not praying at all, then during this period one was outside the fold of Islam, and if they return to prayer and become firm in it, make Tawbah for the past, and make up for what they missed with lots of good deeds and extra superogatory prayers, this will compensate for their period of heedlessness, and they do not have to repeat each and every prayer they missed since Islam erases what came before it.

Indeed Allah is Most Merciful, who loves to forgive and is joyed by the repentance of His slaves.  May Allah accept from you dear brother and make you firm on the deen, and all of us as well.



And Allah knows best.

Be merciful to those on earth, and the One in the Heavens will be merciful to you.
Anonymous
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 06, 2008 05:23 PM »

Walaikumsalaam wrt wb,

First I am not a brother

Second I appreciate your help. The answers really helped and cleared up alot of misunderstandings. JazakAllahu Kair.

Third if you dont mind I have another question to ask.

Is it better to pray Isha right before going to bed (I heard that it is good if it is the last thing u do) or is it better to pray right when it is time for Isha?

Thanks,

Your Sister
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« Reply #8 on: Sep 08, 2008 12:33 AM »

Asalamualaikum wrt wb,


All praise be to Allah,


Honorable sister, I am very happy that you are learning the Fiqh of the religion.  May Allah give us the beneficial knowledge.

It is known that praying the Salat in their earliest times is one of the most beloved deeds to Allah, and this ideal.  However, the Prophet, may peace and the blessings of Allah be upon him, use to sometimes delay Isha slightly, and this is considered to be from one of the actions from the Sunnah. 


Shaikh Ibn Baz was asked about the time for Isha.  He replied:

Praise be to Allaah.

‘Isha prayer must be performed before midnight, and it is not permissible to delay it until midnight, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The time of ‘Isha’ is until midnight” (narrated by Muslim, al-Masaajid wa Mawaadi’ al-Salaah, 964). So you have to pray it before midnight, based on the length of the night, because the night may be longer or shorter, so the guideline is how many hours the night lasts. If the night is ten hours long, then it is not permissible to delay it until the end of the fifth hour. The best way it to pray it in the first third of the night. If a person prays it at the beginning of the time for ‘Isha, that is OK, but if he delays it a little while, that is preferable, because the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to recommend delaying ‘Isha’ prayer for a little while. But if someone prays it at the beginning of its time, after the twilight – the reddish afterglow along the horizon – has vanished, there is nothing wrong with that. And Allaah knows best. 



Majmoo’ah Fataawa al-Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz


I hope this helps answer your question.

And Allah knows best.

Be merciful to those on earth, and the One in the Heavens will be merciful to you.
Anonymous
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« Reply #9 on: Sep 08, 2008 02:36 PM »

so it is best to pray right before you sleep?

And this is the first time Im hearing that you only have till midnight to pray it?Huh? Sometimes I would go to sleep realy late , around 3 am or sooo , and I would pray Isha also at that time. And I have known many members of my family pray very late also.. so are you sure about the 'midnight' . Is it in all schools of thought?

salaam
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« Reply #10 on: Sep 09, 2008 01:43 AM »

Asalamualaikum wrt wb,


All praise be to Allah.


According the the Ulema, it is ok to follow a school of thought for a common Muslim, as long as they do not cling to it stubbornly (Ta'assub).  As an example, the Hanafi school teaches that the woman's voice is awrah, and thus, she is not permitted to speak in front of non-Mahrams, except in special circumstances.

However, this opinion is extremely weak, and the majority of Islamic jurists reject it.  The Sahabiat often spoke in front of men, and in fact, the second most prolific narrator of Hadith is Aisha.

Also, a person should not reject hadith which have been authentically reported from the Messenger, may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, simply because it contradicts his or her madhab.

Likewise, they should not distort or twist a hadith to make it correspond to their madhab.  Rather, the opposite should be true.  They should follow the authentically narrated hadith.

The reason for this is that the Fiqh Madhaahab are not sources of Islamic law.  They are not a reference that can replace the Quran and the Sunnah.


At the same time, we must build on them, as they are the works of our righteous predecessors, and give them respect for the efforts they made in Fiqh.


This is what the Ulema state regarding the Madhaahab.


As for the time of Isha, the Shaykh mentioned the Hadith narrated in Muslim:
“The time of ‘Isha’ is until midnight” (narrated by Muslim, al-Masaajid wa Mawaadi’ al-Salaah, 964).


The hadith is both authentic in text and absolutely clear and unambigous in meaning.  Since the Shaykh is a mujtahid, you should listen to him.  You should not reject the knowledge, because this is akin to turning away from the Prophet, may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, if he were speaking to you.


I know some people think a person has to blindly cling to only one school of thought.  However, the Sahabah never said, I will only listen to my teacher, and ignore everyone else.


At the same time, one should not seek Rukhs, that is, shop around for the easiest opinion.


In summary, if you are convinced of the evidence for a certain Islamic ruling by an Islamic scholar, then you should follow him.




And Allah knows best.

Be merciful to those on earth, and the One in the Heavens will be merciful to you.
Anonymous
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 09, 2008 03:50 AM »

salaam

I agree with what you say brother, but you are misunderstanding me. I did not ask again so I can get a reason to reject this hadith.  The reason I asked is because since my family and extended family pray late I was trying to find a reason my elders have been doing this. Maybe they follow another opinion? I wanted to make sure they are not doing wrong.
I cannot tell them it is wrong unless Im aboslutely sure, so I want to make sure if there is any opinion allowing after midnight
Anonymous
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« Reply #12 on: Sep 09, 2008 05:19 AM »


Anonymous there are other opinions on this. No one on this board is a shaikh of shaikhs fatwa giver, let alone a scholar. We are all students of knowledge, so please take everything with a grain of salt and keep seeking knowledge inshaAllah.

Anonymous
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« Reply #13 on: Sep 09, 2008 09:20 AM »

Assalamu alaykum,

The following is intended to present the views of various scholars, including the the four schools of thought (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi`i and Hanbali), regarding the issue of when the time ends for the Isha prayer.

First, Shaykh Sayyid Sabiq says in Fiqh al-Sunnah (vol.1, p.86):

Quote
The Time of the Night Prayer ('Isha)
 
This prayer begins when the red twilight disappears and continues up to half of the night.  Reported 'Aishah, "They used to pray the night prayer between the disappearance of the twilight and the final third of the night's beginning." (Related by al-Bukhari.) Abu Hurairah reported that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "If it were not to be a hardship upon my nation, I would order them to delay the night prayer until a third or a half of the night had passed." (Related by Ahmad, Ibn Majah and at-Tirmizhi, who said it is sahih.) Reported Abu Sa'eed, "Once, we waited for the Messenger of Allah to lead the night prayer until half the night had passed, at which time he came and prayed with us. He said, 'Stay in your places of sitting while the people have gone to their places of lying down (for sleep), for you are in prayer as long as you are waiting for the prayer. If it were not for the weakness of the weak, the illness of the ill and the need of those who have needs, I would have delayed the time of this prayer to a half of the night."

As to the authenticity of this report, it is recorded by Ahmad, Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah, an-Nasa'i and Ibn Khuzaimah. Its chain is sahih). The hadith describes the best time to pray. As for the allowable time and the time due to need, it lasts until dawn. Abu Qatadah reported that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "There is no negligence in sleeping, but the negligence lies in not praying a prayer until the time of the next prayer has come." (Related by Muslim.) This hadith shows that the time of every prayer continues until the beginning of the time for the next prayer, except for the morning prayer, as all scholars agree that its time lasts only until sunrise.


Second, the authors of al-Mawsu`a al-Kuwaytiyya (The Kuwaiti Compendium of Fiqh), arguably the most thorough work to date in the field of Comparative Fiqh, say (vol.7, p.175-176):

Quote
As for the end of the time for Isha, it occurs with the break of dawn without any disagreement between Abu Hanifa and his companions (Abu Yusuf, Muhammad and Zufar).  This is also the official opinion of the Shafi`i school, and a minority opinion within the Maliki school … The official opinion of the Maliki school is that its time ends with the passing of the first third of the night … The Hanbali school maintains that its preferred time ends with the passing of the first third of the night, while the time after that until the break of dawn is the time of necessity.


I verified the above for the Hanafi, Shafi`i and Hanbali schools as follows.  Unfortunately, I do not have access to Maliki texts at this time --


I. The Hanafi school

al-Musili says in al-Ikhtiyar (vol.1, p.3):

Quote
The end of Isha is right before the break of dawn.


II. The Shafi`i School

al-Nawawi says in al-Minhaj (Mughni al-Muhtaj, vol. 2, p.91):

Quote
Isha begins when the twilight disappears, and lasts until dawn.  It is preferred not to delay it beyond the first third of the night, or the first half of the night according to a weaker opinion.


III. The Hanbali School

Ibn Qudama al-Maqdisi says in al-Mughni (vol. 2, p.170):

Quote
God willing, it is preferable not to delay the Isha prayer beyond the first third of the night.  However, it is lawful to delay it until half of the night has elapsed.  After that is the time of necessity … which lasts until the break of dawn.


There are several pieces of evidence for the majority opinion that the time for `Isha lasts until dawn.  The most authentic of these is a hadith related by Imam Muslim in his Sahih on the authority of Abu Qatada that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said, " ... What amounts to transgressing the bounds is for one to delay his prayer until the time for the next prayer enters." (Qada' al-Salah al-Fa'itah, 1099). 

Imam al-Nawawi says regarding the above hadith in his commentary of Sahih Muslim (vol.2, p.489):

Quote
This report contains evidence that the time for every one of the five obligatory prayers extends until the beginning of the next one.  The general scope [`umum] of this report encompasses all the prayers except Fajr, which does not last until Dhuhr but rather ends with sunrise, because of implication [mafhum al-mukhalafa] of the statement of the Prophet (peace be upon him), "Whoever catches a single rak`ah of Fajr before sunrise has caught the Fajr prayer."

[…]

Our companion Abu Sa`id al-Istakhri said, "`Asr ends when the shadow of an object becomes twice the length of the object itself, `Isha ends when the first third of the night has elapsed, or half of it has elapsed, and Fajr ends when the horizon becomes yellow." 

This opinion is weak!  The correct and official opinion (of the Shafi`i school) is as we have mentioned, that the time (for `Asr and `Isha also) lasts until the next prayer (in addition to Dhuhr and Maghrib). 


As for the hadith related by Sahih Muslim on the authority of `Abdullah b. `Amr that the Prohet (peace be upon him) said, "The time of `Isha lasts until the middle of the night," it is interpreted by the majority of the scholars to be referring to the preferred time of `Isha. 

al-Nawawi comments on this report in his Sharh Sahih Muslim saying (vol.2, p.394):

Quote
It means it is its preferred time.  As for its permissible time, it extends until the break of dawn because of the report of Abu Qatada, " ... What amounts to transgressing the bounds is for one to delay his prayer until the time for the next prayer enters."


To conclude:The majority of scholars assert that the time for `Isha lasts until Fajr, and therefore it is lawful to delay praying Isha until then.  However, one should avoid deaying `Isha beyond the first third of the night or the middle of the night unless there is an excuse.  The reason for this is two-fold.  First, because a group of scholars (including the Maliki school) maintain that it is unlawful to delay `Isha beyond the first third or middle of the night, and even if one follows a different opinion, it is good to be cautionary with respect to one's prayers.  Second, although it is permissible to delay `Isha beyond the middle of the night according to most scholars, it is preferable not to do so. 

And Allah knows best.
Anonymous
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« Reply #14 on: Sep 10, 2008 12:00 AM »

Asalamualaikum wrt wb,


All praise be to Allah.


1.)  It is extremely hated to be argumentative in matters of religion.  I am here to convey knowledge, not engage in debates.


2.)  Shaikh Ibn Baz is a well known Mujtahid scholar.  He was a Jurist and official Mufti of the land of the two holy mosques, for over 70 years, and memorized the entire Quran and tens of thousands of hadith.  I don't think even Jannah can claim that type of knowledge.


3.)  To the previous anonymous poster, thank you for your references.  It appears there is some confusion here regarding what is considered the "time of Isha."  By "time for Isha" I mean the time within which it is totally permissible to either pray it or delay it.  It does not refer to the time within which praying it is Makrooh (detestable). 

This is the summary of the positions of the Ulema of the four schools regarding delaying Isha beyond midnight as I understand it:


1.) Maliki school:  Haram
2.) Shafii and Hanbali:  Makrooh
3.) Hanafi: Permissible


Shaikh Ibn Baz stated that it was not permissible to delay Isha beyond midnight.  This agrees with 3 of the 4 schools, who say it is either makrooh or haram.  The only ones who say it is permissible (mubah) is the Hanafi school.

The Shaikh said its time ends at midnight, which as you mentioned, means its preferable time, after which it becomes either hated or haram.


So in summary, Shaikh Ibn Baz, as well as the other three Madhabs, disagree with the Hanafi school, based on the authentic hadith "The time of `Isha lasts until the middle of the night," narrated by Muslim.


Whether one chooses to cling to the Hanifi opinion, or follow the evidence as understood by the majority, including Sh. Ibn Baz, is a personal decision.


But as the scholars say, Ta'assub (extremism) in clinging stubbornly to one's madhab is very much hated by the Ulema.


And Allah knows best.

Anonymous
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« Reply #15 on: Sep 10, 2008 03:42 AM »

JazakAllah I will take heed to what you say. Now I know that it is preffered if not obligatory to pray before midnight but atleast I dont have to go tell the others they are wrong bc they are probably just following hanafi school.
Anonymous
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« Reply #16 on: Sep 10, 2008 04:11 AM »

Asalamualaikum wrt wb,



Honorable sister,

Sorry, looks like we missed your question.  But you are very wise in your understanding, may Allah make you a Faqiha. 

Please do not hesitate to write in the future, I hope we can relay the knowledge.



And Allah knows best.
Anonymous
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« Reply #17 on: Sep 10, 2008 06:41 AM »

salams,

This is the summary of the positions of the Ulema of the four schools regarding delaying Isha beyond midnight as I understand it:


1.) Maliki school:  Haram
2.) Shafii and Hanbali:  Makrooh
3.) Hanafi: Permissible


Shaikh Ibn Baz stated that it was not permissible to delay Isha beyond midnight.  This agrees with 3 of the 4 schools, who say it is either makrooh or haram.

hang on a second there ... if ibn baz said it was not permissible, then he only agrees with 1 of the 4 schools right?  isn't makrooh still considered permissible?  i mean, it's not a sin to do something makrooh, right?

confused  Huh?
Anonymous
Guest
« Reply #18 on: Sep 10, 2008 07:22 AM »

salaam

I just wanted to point out that in the Shafi`i school, it is preferable to offer the Isha prayer before the first third of the night has passed (as Reply #13 said above).  However, that does not mean that it becomes offensive (makruh) to perform it any time after that.  In the Shafi`i school, it is permissible without detestability (karaha) to perform the Isha prayer until the appearance of false dawn (al-fajr al-kadhib).  It only becomes offensive (makruh) after that. 

P.S.  "False dawn" is when there is a ray of light that runs across the sky vertically from east to west for a few moments and then disappears approximately 15 minutes before "true dawn," which occurs when brightness appears horizontally across the eastern horizon in the dark sky.
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