// Deperate for a miracle... [daughter losing islam]
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ume bilal
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« Reply #25 on: Sep 06, 2008 11:07 PM »

Assalam Ailkum.
I have tried my best to explain to my daughter why we object to this. I have given her as good an Islamic education as I could eg. Madrassa at weekends etc.....I always try to be a good Muslim as I believe it is important to be a good example of Islam as this is the best way to teach our children.

Her cousins who are encouraging her to marry this man have been allowed live quite differently.. they have been allowed to go and come as they please.....having lots of non Muslim boyfriends etc... Yet one has just got engaged to a Muslim boy and the other is looking for a Muslim. I am very happy for them  but upset that they are encouraging her.....
My daughter is a kind girl, and I know deep down that she knows we will be very sad if she goes ahead. Having said that I also know she has a stubborn streak, and that even if she was unhappy later on she would not admit it. This is an additional worry....She can be very determined.

I say MashAllah that she is still living with us, as at least I still have hope things will change....Everything is possible if Allah wills.
At the moment she is reading a book written by Karen Armstrong about the Prophet Mohamed (PB)...I pray she will read something in this book which will touch her heart.

She has gone out this evening and while I don't like it especially as it is Ramadan I have not said anything..

Sr. Fozia I thought of you  today, she asked me to go to "look around the shops" with her...I was feeling tired but I accepted and went...

The one thing I do know is that I will never turn my back on her, some may think I am weak and they may be right,however while I don't like what she is doing. I will always love her.....

I have said all that I can to her about this matter. Now all I can do is make Duah, and hope Allah accepts....

It has been such a help reading the relies and getting advice....knowing that others are  alos making Duah...You have all been so patient with me.....May Allah bless and protect you.....Sr. Fozia I pray that no one will ever come between you and your girls, indeed you seem to be a wonderful mother.....May Allah Protect all mothers from what I am going through..
Salaams.
JJ
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Make duaa for those less fortunate than us.


« Reply #26 on: Sep 07, 2008 01:09 PM »

Asalamaulikum,

I'm not a parent yet however feel for you and the situation you are in.

You must never give up hope as hope will then give up on you.

The fact your daughter is still at home and awknowledges you is a major card in your favour. She works and I'm guessing she could have moved out a while ago and purchased a home of her own but she hasn't. There must be something keeping her at home.

Have you tried purchasing books on parenthood and marriage for her? Maybe reading about the responsibilities we have as wives/parents will highlight how important it is for both partners to have a similar approach to religion.

It will be painful but have you asked about how she will bring up her children? Would they be Muslim? Does she value the Islamic teachings you gave her? Mixed race marriages prove difficult so a mixed religious marriage must be mind-boogling  Huh?

Have you considered taking her on holiday to maybe a Muslim country? Sometimes hearing the Azaan on a regular basis evokes something within people. What about an Umraah (did I spell that right?).

As for the family encouraging her to do as she pleases-sadly sister I have seen this happen to many families. Usually the ones encouraging others to rebel secretly wish to do it themselves but are too afraid. By hiding behind others who are rebelling they build their own courage thus will end up rebelling but their families will always accuse the person who rebelled first and label them as the bad one who took their child on a bad path. My suggestion is to try and keep your distance from these members of your family whilst you encourage your daughter to come back onto a path that will guide her to Jannah-inshallah!

Whatever you do sister please do not give up. Without going into too much detail a family friend of mine came across a similar situation and it ended very badly. My mums friend has mashallah 6 children from 14-30.  When she found out her son was in a relationship with a sikh girl she ignored it and didn't face it. Gradually her son started spending weekends with her but he would return home after bragging about what he had been up to at the weekend to his younger brothers. Again, she did nothing. Her younger son got married and soon took on a mistress-again she said nothing because she claimed she could do nothing. Her other son soon started copying his older brother. If this wasn't bad enough soon her daughters started copying their brothers but this time she wanted help. Sadly by this stage the daughters had enough courage to move out of their family home as their mother had behaved in an approving manner in regards to her sons behaviour. This lady how lives alone-her husband only visits her as he "needs to" and she has a male companion she goes out and about with. She says shes testing the water as she would like to divorce her husband and marry this man. This lady would never have done this 5 years ago but her vision of life and Islam has changed so dramatically when she basically lost hope. 
I bumped into one of her daughters a while ago and she said I was different towards her than before. When I asked her what she meant she said I'd turned into a boring Muslim homemaker. Indeed this is what she thinks of me but only Allah can judge. I maybe a boring person to her but I know the real me is someone I do not have to hide from other sisters. What you see is what you get  princesssis

You will be in our prayers.

Princess

Our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) wasn't just sent to guide us Muslims, he is a unique, true example to EVERYONE.
This life is only a test-passing will equal Jannah, Inshallah!
Oh Muslim brothers and sisters-consider sponsoring an Orphan if Allah has blessed you with the finances to do so-Ameen.
timbuktu
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« Reply #27 on: Sep 09, 2008 06:27 AM »

[salam]

OK, here are some ideas, and an action plan. Please forgive me but any questions I ask are to understand your daughter's nature, mind and attitude. e.g. is she the type who needs a dominant force in her life, or one who makes up her own mind. If former, then the bf has won by default.

She is over thirty, and she must be wanting to get married and have children. One of my Qs was "Why hasn't she left so far?" I asked it because the answer may allow us to develop a strategy  for keeping her within the fold.  Is it that she had wanted to stay Muslim. That is a plus, isn't it? Or perhaps she wants an excuse to keep her conscience clear that any breakup with the parents was their fault. Or it maybe that she does not really want to break completely with you. You know your daughter, we do not, so only you can answer these questions.

It does seem to us that she is taking you for granted, and accepting more and more of the man's demands, albeit not immediately, but taking time.

I agree with sister Fozia on her many thoughtful points.

The present state does not give you any chance to protect her. What plans they make are known to you only to the  extent of what she chooses to tell you. So, sis Fozia is right that you need to be more pro-active, and more involved with your daughter, without giving her the excuse she wants. You say your daughter is giving in to him, but you have also had to do the same. As long as they are able to maintain their relationship while you pretend you do not know, they will continue to spring surprises on you, and you will have no choice but to accept the fait accompli, or ignore it plainly, which won't make it go away.

I am going to suggest a departure in approach. Let her know that you have become aware of her lying to you. You can say that it hurts, especially when you think of  the Hereafter, but you know you cannot stop her legally from seeing this man outside your home. However, as a mother you do have her interests at heart, and are entitled to be taken into confidence, consulted on major issues, and weight given to your view. You can get the mother's love factor in the discussion as well. When she accepts this, can you persuade her to promise the following. Whether she says the shahada before this or does not, is not important at the moment:
  •     to make this prayer: Surah Fateha together with ta`awwuz and bismillah, at least once a day. It is important. She is going to refuse at first but tell her it is only a prayer for guidance from God. If she refuses persistently, then ask her to make the following prayer
  •     "O God! Guide me to the right path" at least once, every day. There is no mention of Allah or His attributes here, so she should have no problem, if she hasn't become an atheist by now. If she has, she can still be persuaded to make this prayer::
  •     "If You exist, O God! Please Guide me to the right path"

Some day, Allah will bring her back, Insha`Allah. Authority: personal experience. I too, once, strayed outside the fold.

The real danger and an urgent one, is a possible conversion to Orthodox Christianity. The renunciation of faith (no longer saying the shahada) could be:
   a. the harbinger of conversion to OC
   b. a thoughtless and vengeful reaction to not getting her way, and without thinking of the implications
   c. to elicit a strong reaction from you for the final break to be pronounced

You are a better judge of that. I think a) or b) is the answer. Perhaps at some stage, probably not too far in the future, you have to get her to talk about her concept of God. That may reveal whether Trinity  is a concept she is considering or has considered. If you have any idea how long ago she gave up the salah and other milestones in her slide down this path, it would help figure out the time frame if she is planning the final break.

The change in her behaviour may also indicate the approach of a break with you, or she may be exasperated that you haven't shown any anger. I hope it is the latter. That would be c) above.

You have to do some praying yourself. I have already suggested some duas, but I am going to revise the prescription for you now:

1. Istaghfaar: lots of it. We do not know what sins we may have committed. I am not sure whether this is a Hadithe Qudsi or something, but If one does a lot of Istaghfaar, Allah solves the problem from an unforeseen angle. Personal Experience here as well.

2. Ta`awwudh

3. Ayatu Kursi : Surah Baqara, Ayahs 255-257.

You recite it (at least ayah 255), and blow a short breath gently towards her when she goes out. You can do the blowing when her back is towards you. You can also repeat this in her absence. Whenever you are worried about her, just think of her and blow on her image. Whenever I am worried about someone's welfare or whereabouts, I recite this with that person in mind, and it takes not more than 20 minutes when either the person has come back, or I have news from him/her, akHamdulillah.

4. Wallahu khairan Haafizanwwa huwa arhamur Rahimeen (I think it is in Surah Yusuf)
Same as for Ayatul Kursi. You can recite both before the blowing. My mother recites both Ayatul Kursi and this before any of us leave her house.

5. Surah Ahqaf Ayah 15 as I have said in a previous post: at least three times after fard prayers, and as many times during waking hours as you can - I have used it, and advised others, and children's behaviour has improved a lot.

6. Then one masnoon dua: It is on my blog, too

http://islam-timbuktu.blogspot.com/2007/08/for-mutual-love.html

I tried to post the Arabic here, but it came out all funny, so please visit the above link.

Allahumma allif baena quloobena
wa asleh dhata baenena
wa ahdena subulassalaame
wa najjena minaz zulumaate elanNoor

O Allah! create mutual love in our hearts
and make peace between us (or set us straight)
and guide us along the path of peace, safety and harmony
and bring us from darkness to light

at least 3 times after every fard prayer, and when going to bed.

This dua is for creating and restoring affection and love. That applies to mother-daughter love as well. Recite this dua as for Ahqaf:15. I have used it too and again things have gone much better.

I hope I have been clear.

What do others think about the change in approach?
Fozia
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« Reply #28 on: Sep 09, 2008 04:48 PM »

salam

I agree whole heartedly, it's not going to get her back against the wall which is good. It will show UmmBilal's daughter that her mother is not a walkover at the same time, also very good.

Hopefully it will open up the channels of communication. However from what I've read thus far it really does seem that the daughter is a person who needs a dominant force in her life, but the dominant force this boyfriend provides is a very negative one, I can see shades of x in his demands (or perhaps I've just turned ito a man hater Shocked ) of her ie 'give up your job to suit my lifestyle', I hope and pray she runs for the hills as soon as she sees her mama is someone to talk to and confide in and really does love her, and deserves respect!

Boyfriend sounds like a waste of space and I'm sure he will go on to make some other woman very unhappy.

This situation is going to take time to right, if your daughter has been attached to this man since her teens (about a decade or a little over?), then she will also be very scared to try and break up, you know the better the devil you know angle, the fear that she will now be left on the shelf and this man is her only chance.... On the other hand I so hope she breaks from him before the end of ramadan, and I hope she meets and marries some wonderful muslim brother and I hope she is able to forgive herself and I hope she is very happy with wonderful children of her own and she realises what exactly it is for a mother to love her children.

I have heard of times where the girl has turned her life around and married a really lovely human being, and in the instance I know her husband knew about her past and didnt mind and he was a catch too alhumdulillah.



Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #29 on: Sep 12, 2008 11:06 PM »

Assalamo Ailkum.
Thank you Br. Timbuktu.. I will recite the Ayah recommended. Thanks Sr. Fozia, I know that life is not easy for you at this present time...but you still take the time for others.
Part of the reason I have not confronted her is that I have found out what is happening  only because  I have resorted to spying and she will know this if I say anything to her. I do not want to give her an excuse to leave...I have to admit that I am scared as I don't want this to happen.
I need to think carefully and pray hard.

I feel she does not want to break with her family, but at the same time she thinks we will eventually give in.I know she wants to get married and have children...She has not had any other boyfriends.

I did  confront her some years ago when I discovered what was going on.( she was still a student) I overheard her quarrelling  and crying  with him  about religion on her mobile phone in the early hours of the morning. She was saying she would not marry in the OC church and that they would have to have a civil ceremony only. (I had woken up to go to the bathroom)
As she had exams the next day I asked her to come off the phone and go to sleep. I thought he was being really selfish as he would have known she had exams.

Folowing this we had a discussion in which she said he was willing to convert. Because of what I had overheard I was not convinced of this....I explained to her that OC are strong in what they believe and tend not to change...However if he was willing to convert I told her he must do that first and then we can talk....I asked her what were his conditions for the marriage and she said he had only stipulated one and it was that any children from the marriage would be taught his language...This is taught in the church so  he knows that this is all he needs to do in order for the children to be OC. When I mentioned this she said  that is not the reason, it is only for the children to be able to speak to members of his family...As they all speak English this is just a ruse...to make sure they are in the OC community...Naturally if children go to after school classes at the church where everyone is OC they will follow that way....I explained that we could not accept these, terms, however if he were to genuinely convert we would definitely consider things. As it would not be possible for them to get married  now as she was still a student, we said there is plenty of time for him to learn about Islam and to convert...
She burst into tears and said "Does that mean you would not give me your blessing to marry the person I love".....I said NO if it meant I had to be party to a conversion  that is not sincere...We reiterated that if he were to genuinely convert we would be happy to consider him...On that day I had to put a stone on my heart as I could see how torn she was...Some years have passed and this man has continued as he always has done drinking alchohol etc. it is a normal part of his culture. There has been  no approach to Islam,Sorry to be so long winded but I am trying to give as clear picture as possible.
This last few days I have tried to be close to her. It pains me when I hear her refer to herself as muslim and then see the life she leads. Alhumdolilah she has not gone away with him in Ramadaan, but she still stays out very late. I am so greatful to Allah that she still comes home...(he has his own apartment} She is now planning a weeks holiday with her Muslim friend next month...I know this girl provides cover for my daughter.....Now I have told a very long story...Insha Allah there will be a parting of this relationship. Deep down all we want is her happiness but not at the cost of losing her deen. His lifestyle leaves a lot to be desired even if there were no religious differences..
Thanks for listening to all of this and also for the duahs and care shown to me.
Salaams.
JJ
timbuktu
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« Reply #30 on: Sep 16, 2008 09:49 AM »

peace be upon you

OK, I too will think over this after I have had time to read your post properly, and to form my thoughts.


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« Reply #31 on: Sep 16, 2008 11:34 AM »

salam


What if you asked her about getting married, about looking for potentials???

would she then tell you about the man friend then allowing you to have the conversation as suggested by Br. Timbuktu?


I actually do not liek the sound of this boyfriend at all, he sounds manipulative and controlling, andregardless of religion and his relationship with your daughter, I would tell any friend to head for the hills.

Is she still talking about leaving her job, the job market is not at a good place right now?

What does he do?


Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #32 on: Sep 19, 2008 09:33 PM »

Assalam Ailkum.

My daughter has received a few proposals/suggestions of young men who were interested in  marriage, but whenever I have approached her she dismisses it immediately....
The last one was some years ago and  when the boy and his father came with the "go between " she said she was going out as she had a previous engagement. I think that by now the word has got round and no one seems interested. She makes it clear she is not interested.

This last couple of weeks she had been a little more communicative, we were having quite a few conversations about Islam, she commented a lot on it from the political viewpoint only. When I tried to touch on the practice of it and how certain matters are not negotiable that  these are fard. She responds by saying it is what is in the heart that counts and how you must not harm others....

This evening after finishing work I went to the shops to look for an Eid present for her in particular, I called my husband to let him know where I was and he told me that she had come home early from work and soon after she just announced she was going to stay with her friend  for the weekend and left.
We know we can't stop her, and if we ask any questions she only tells more lies.

I do not like this boy partly because he seems to be calling the shots and rather than he be the one that is changing  she is. I do recognise he is not forcing her and she is also to blame....

She has not said anymore about changing her job, but I don't know what she could be planning.....It is hard, it is only Allah that can make her see that what she is doing is wrong... InshaAllha this will come to pass.

I feel so bad taking up everyones time, it helps so much to have advice from others.... I have a lot to be grateful for and must count my blessings....my heart aches to see my daughter lying and commiting such sins....This is not a family that will adapt to her, they will totally consume her into their culture and way of life.

Sr. Fozia thank you for your response.......hugs to you and your girls. May Allah bless you.
Bro. Timbuktu. Thank you so much for the ayat you have suggested....May Allah accept....
Salaams.
JJ
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« Reply #33 on: Sep 19, 2008 11:28 PM »

this is reallllly off topic but when i see things like this my first reaction is

1) gee, this is a really good reason not to have kids.  i have seen mothers devote their whole lives to their children, invested all their emotions in them, and still be treated like dirt once the kids get independence.  my mother forbade her kids from marrying a british muslim because the son of her best friend married a british muslim and the son ended up dumping his doting mother.  tragic!  nowadays kids growup and there is often more than a 50-50 chance that they will ditch their parents or horribly break their hearts...

but i wonder is this also a good reason to MANY children?  you see if you have only 1 child, all your parental hopes live and die with that 1 kid.  if the kid turns out to be a gem, you win the lottery. if the kid turns out to a dud, or DOA spiritually, etc, well....you feel like flushing yourself down the toilet.  however, if you have like 5 kids the probability that at least 2 kids being  as right as rain is high.  Let's say there is a 75% failure probability per kid.  then the probability that at least 2 will be cool is

Probability =  1- (3/4)^5  - (3/4)^4 * (1/4) *5 = 0.36

which means there is a 36% chance of at least 2 kids being fine even in the most challenging circumstances where 75% of all kids grow up to idiots. 

if we do this with assuming there is only 50% chance that the kid grows up to be rasputin then the probability of having at least 2 sane kids is

Probability = 1 - (1/2)^5 - (1/2)^5 *5 =  0.81

which means that there is a 81% chance of having at least 2 conscientious kids.  Not bad eh?

Now suppose that your kids grow up in a supppppper wonderful and homely and out of this world type environment where everybody are angels, such that the probability of a dud is only 25%.  Then the probability of two angelic kids is

1 - (1/4)^5 - (1/4)^4 * (3/4) *5 =   0.98

So there is a 98% chance of having at least 2 angels.

So the message is either have NO kids or have MANY kids. 

and i guess the message from most of you to me is...mahbub....you obviously have too much time on your hands...and mahbub...shut up! stop being such a dimwitted bore.

in case you are wondering, my parents have 5 kids, and although it is too early to tell who turned out to be rasputin...you can guess all bets are on me Smiley   
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« Reply #34 on: Sep 20, 2008 04:14 AM »

salam

The desire to have children is never based on cool calm calculation. If one sat and did the math before venturing into the unknown ie parenthood in this case, well one would never do anything, that is my lay(wo)mans analysis.

I don't suppose if you sent your child a terse text saying 'It is the last ten days of ramadan, return home' she would listen?

May the Merciful have mercy on us all, I really don't think this man will make her happy, from what you say, this relationship is not a two way thing at all, at some point she will see this and bitterly regret it.

Btw the next time she tells you it's what is in the heart rubbish, tell her the christian view is the path to hell is paved with good intentions. And what excactly does the good heart thing mean anyway. I have an angelic heart but if I puprposefully walk over someone dying on the road in order not to be late for work, it may not send me to hell, but it certainly will not win me the pleasure of my creator!

As a general rule a good heart will tell you when you are wrong, and it becomes us to follow it, otherwise ones heart hardens and stops being so susceptible to good.

I am so annoyed with her, she is being like this because she knows she has you over a barrel. She has already wasted so much time over this person. And if she considers you unfair for not accepting a person outside of your religion for her, where exactly does she think his parents will expect the marriage to take place in order for them to accept the union....Huh?



Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
timbuktu
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« Reply #35 on: Sep 22, 2008 09:06 AM »

salaam

This is a very serious attack by shayateen and jinns, and since love is a form of magic, I have some more for you

After recitation of folloeing, blow on water to be drunk by the affectee. Others can drink from that, too.

Preferably recite this, when she is sleeping, and then blow on her when she is asleep. This is only for otherwise she may object.

First the ta`wwuz. Then:

Surah Fatiha (1: 1-7), complete with Bismillah. Here the Bismillah is counted as the first ayah; not counted in the rest

al-Baqarah
------ (2: 1-5), recite with Bismillah
------ (2: 163)
------ (2: 255-257)
------ (2: 284-286)

aale Imraan------ (3: 18)
al-A`araaf ------ (7: 54-56)
al-Israa(Bani Israel)------ (17: 110-111)
al-Muminoon------ (23: 115-118)
as-Saf------ (37: 1-10), recite with Bismillah
ar-Rehman------ (55: 33-35)
al-Hashr------ (59: 21-24)
al-Jinn------ (72: 1-4)
al-Kafiroon------ (109: 1-6), complete with Bismillah.
al-Ikhlaas------ (112: 1-4), complete with Bismillah.
al-Falaq------ (113: 1-5), complete with Bismillah.
an-Naas------ (114: 1-6), complete with Bismillah.

----------

do it every night. When she is away, imagine her and blow on that.

These are avaiable in separate compilations as 'Manzil' or 'Hirze Azam'
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« Reply #36 on: Sep 22, 2008 04:29 PM »

Asalamualaikum

May Allah swt help you during this difficulty and guide your daughter to do what is best.

I hope you dont mind me saying this but it seems she may have a self confidence issue considering she still wants him although he is not giving much thought to her feelings. I suggest you try to work on her self confidence, she should know that she deserves better. She is in love so she may not be thinking str8.
I strongly suggest that the whole family see a councelor so she can help you understand and deal with each other.  Since your situation is a muslim with a nonmulsim guy, it is best if you find a councelor who is a practicing muslim. You can interview on phone , ask around.
I remember when my friends engagment broke (the whole family was attatched to the guy and she had known him over 2 yrs but they realized that is the right thing to do but it was hard on them) so they all went to a councelor to help deal wth the issue and now they are better communicating with each other and have learned how to deal with it.
Do constant dua and zikr. I got this in the mail and hope it helps inshAllah. my duas are with you.  Plz keep me in yours also.

As salamu alaykum,
> The last ten nights of Ramadan are almost upon us, and I
> wanted to take this moment to remind you about a cool Dua
> technique that I do during the last ten nights.
>
> When I was 12 years old, I used this technique, and 2 years
> later I had memorized the ENTIRE Quran!
>
> Here's what you do:
> Step 1: Ask yourself: If Allah said he would give me
> ANYTHING, what would I ask for? Brainstorm at least for one
> page.
>
> Step 2: Choose 6 of the most precious things on your list.
>
> Step 3: Make dua for these 6 specifically every night for
> the entire last ten nights of Ramadan.
>
> ONE of those nights HAS to be Laylatul Qadr, so your dua
> will correspond to LaylatulQadr if you make the same dua
> every night. How cool is that?
>
>
> With best wishes to see you succeed at the highest level!
> - Muhammad Alshareef
>
> PS: Please remember to make dua for my family and I during
> your prayers in the last ten nights. I'll do the same for
> you.
>

> AlMaghrib
timbuktu
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« Reply #37 on: Sep 23, 2008 06:52 AM »

AoA

Counselling would be good but she dismisses everything. Why would she agree to see a counsellor?

I rather think she demonstrates a very stubborn streak, and simehow stubbornness seems to be in far greater supply than is healthy. Her chances of getting married to a Muslim aren't very bright now, and she might think this guy is the only one for her, plus she is deluded in thinking she is in love.

But why she hasn't left shows an attachment to the family rather than Islam.

The fact that she has been better behaved for the last two weeks may mean the duas are working.

She needs a shakeup in life to awaken to the reality.

I suggest make duas, keep trying to open communication and broaden the window of opportunity.

The previous post of mine suggesting Manzil or Hirze Azam is actually for every one. Most of the Ayahs are those commonly recited in Salah, but if they are too uch, Ramadan already ahs a bigger schedule of recitation, the other Ayahs and duas I have suggested earlier, will be enough, Insha`Allah.

I rermember how long it took for my duas to work. Had I said I wanted t now, Allah may not have accepted the duas. And the way they worked is amazin, too. Some day, when I think my story won't embarass me may more, I will show how and on so many occcasions Allah listened to me.

There are relapses and these are due to one's own sins, which one does not even realise. So Istaf\ghhfaar is important.

Get her to ask God for guidance.
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« Reply #38 on: Sep 23, 2008 07:02 PM »

Assalamo Ailkum.
Thank you all for your responses. I will make the duahs as suggested.

Sr. Fozia you are absolutely right when you say she is behaving this way because she has me over a barrel. I agree with you a good heart will tell you when you are going wrong...she knows this is hurting us but her heart still does not soften...You and your girls are in my duah.

Bro. Timbuktu you are correct that the reason she has not left, is her attachment to the family rather than to Islam..She has a very stubborn streak. I do not know your story, but what I sense is that you Iman is strong and Allah brought you through whatever it was.
Sr, Blackrose she would never agree to see a counsellor.... thanks for your guidance, I will follow it and make duah for you and your family.

When this whole thing erupted some years ago, I asked her why had she not told me about this boy,. she said she was waiting until she had negotiated with him and that she would have "something to bring to the table"..I feel it is quite straightforward either he converts genuinely  otherwise there is nothing to discuss....had he been genuine in his intention to convert there was no need for discussion and he has had plenty of time to do it in. While one should not generalise OC will never convert to Islam.He would be shunned by his community and I know his identity is important to him. She is fooling herself if she thinks her children have any chance of being Muslim.

She often says you will be judged on your honesty and how you have treated others not on if you have missed parayers or fasts.....What about her dishonesty to us and the pain she is causing by her behaviour. Is that permissable in the name of love. I have yet to find a religion that does not have rules and rituals and obligatory matters.
I see this man as not respecting her at all, everyone knows it is Ramadan, but the main blame is hers...May Allah guide her and forgive her for the way she is living..I feel he must have a sense of triumph as she still meets him, regardless of it being a holy month.. She once said to me It is not forbiden to go out in Ramadan.

It does not help that those whose daughters are marrying Muslims tell me my main concern should be my daughters happiness, and that if the boy and her love each other I should let go and give her my blessing. I say nothing to them incase they may think I am jealous. I am not I would not wish this on anyone. As I understand it what she is doing is clearly forbidden, and is not negotiable.. Only Allah can guide and save her now..

I sometimes feel exhausted but I must be strong and put my trust in Allah..... If it his will ,this situation will change within the blink of an eye.. The advice has helped me and  also your support.. If anyone thinks I am wrong in anything I have said , please please correct me.May you all have a blessed last few days of Ramadan. Keep me in you duah and you are in mine.
Salaams.
JJ
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« Reply #39 on: Sep 25, 2008 06:55 AM »

peace be upon you

The reason others tell you to concern yourself only with tha daughter's happiness, do so becaoz this is the major way Shaytan has deluded us.

happiness, if they find it in drugs
or anything

What you write, gives us a better understanding of your daughter and you, and the better for us to make suggestions suited to the occasion. Your last post made a lot of things clearer. In fact I wrote out a question, but you have already answered in the previous post, so I deleted that Q.

I, on the other hand, write too much, but it is to explain my reasoning, so others can refute it if they find is faulty. I also want to explore alternatives when the information leads to more than one possibility.

You have been doing you best in the society you live in, and even the best of people are to be tested. This particular test is being faced by many, and as I said earlier, not only in the West but in Muslim countries as well. The only thing you could do additionally (if you are not doing it already) is to do istekhara for every step you take.

As sister Fozia wrote, you must re-establish communication between mother and daughter without giving up the central prohibition. You bring her to the state when she starts asking God to guide her.

Allah guides those who seek guidance.

Stop worrying about negative outcomes. Quite often we imagine the worst, and the worst happens. We have brought it upon ourselves.

Use positive thinking.

Our deen says you make dua, consider your options to the best of your ability, decide on a course of action based ideally on istekhara, and work consistently towards it. You should have the conviction that Allah is all powerful and WILL make this happen. If one makes astaghfaar in abundance, Allah (swt) solves the problem through an hitherto unthought-of route, and I have experience of that.
____________

1. You said the last time you had a talk with your daughter about this guy was when she was at college (and a teenager), and that you and your husband forbade her from continuing to see this man until he converts genuinely... Now she is in her thirties, and you have discovered that she is seeing him.

2.
Quote
I feel she does not want to break with her family, but at the same time she thinks we will eventually give in.

These two above do not add up,

Q1: How can she feel no. 2 when for more than a decade you two haven't talked of this bf? as far as she is concerned you are not aware of the continuing liaison.

Q2: When did she give up saying Salah and Fasting? A mother would notice living in the same house.

Q3: Does she ever smell of alcohol when she comes back? If so, you can use this as a reason for your suspicion that she has been lying.

Q4: How long ago after your forbidding her, did you discover that she has again been seeing him? Was it last year, five years ago, or what? Did you not get suspicious when she refused the offers of marriage,

One way the points 1 and 2 can add up is if your daughter has been leaving hints for you so that you talk about the topic you two have been avoiding. Thus the leaving the computer on with the email open, could be that sort of hint to you.

___________

Most people (although not all) need and respond to physical demonstration of love, especially when they are confused. A child is comforted when a mother kisses a hurt knee. When we get older, the children get self-conscious and the parents get afraid that the child will mind.  If you daughter does not have a revulsion to this, give her a mother's physical touch. Kiss her, hug her, do whatever mothers do when they express their love to their children. Male children may feel awkward when they get older, females often respond positively.

Quote
I know she wants to get married and have children … She has not had any other boyfriends.

This implies (I hope I am wrong) that having other boyfriends would have been accetable in your circle.
___________

When you bring up the subject of her lying, do not be afraid. Before that show ample love to her. You can say that she is lying because mothers always know. You can say that you cannot explain it, it may be a mother's instinct, but there are subtle hints that tell you she is lying. Just do not be specific, i.e. do not say that you know she spent such and such time with him, or did such and such with him. Just say you know from a mother's intuition that she is still seeing him.

Will you be willing to let her burn in Hell while you hold your peace here for the fear that she will go away?

If you are still in two minds, do Istekhara. And Istekhara is by saying two nawafil and making the dua for one of the options. The method is given in Jannah's pages. You will find it on my blog, too. Be firm in whatever your mind settles on, and believe that Allah (swt) WILL bring your daughter back to Islam and give her a good Muslim husband.

She has already accepted that any children would be taught Greek in the OC. That conversation took place more than ten years ago. A lot has happened between then and now.  So, the possibility of a church wedding may also have become acceptable to her, particularly now that she has even given up the shahada.

This is why the questions I ask about the timings are important. The answers will establish a trend, a rate of acceptance/giving in to the bf's demands, and by extrapolation we may judge how far gone she already is and how much time we have before she goes for the final break. I do ot know what is holding her back, as the biological clock is ticj=king fast. I suspect it is coming to a head soon. That one week's holiday could be the one where they go for a marriage, unless there have been other holidays of such a long duration where the cover has been provided by that so-called Muslim friend.

Is there anything that can be used to persuade that friend to desist from supporting your daughter? Many people are themselves afraid, particularly if their spouses are brought in the picture. All it takes is a warning that if they continue, they themselves will be exposed. I have used such a threat to get rid of undesirable interference in my lifre that had almost destroyed my marriage.

She refers to herself as Muslim, that is a good sign, but does not say the shahada? This is illogical. Shahada is what separates a Muslim from a non-Muslim. She is either on the brink of giving up Islam in order to marry her bf, or she still has an attachment to Islam, or she is confused.

The reference to herself as a Muslim is a good sign. Some day she will come back, insha`Allah.

To summarize:
   ? Believe strongly that Allah WILL bring her back, and everything will be all right
   
   ? Show your love for her physically and emotionally, and in  whatever way you think she will respond positively.
   
   ? Try sister Fozia's suggestion.
   
   ? Do istekhara for the change in approach I suggested in my previous post
   
   ? Stop being afraid
   
   ? Consider the option of telling the cousins/friends that you will expose them if they persist in calling your daughter to Hell.

_________

If this does not work, I may ask you to let go of her, but not in the way she would like. On your terms. and they will be that as you have discovered her lying. she can do whatever she likes. She will find your doors open, but only when she repents and comes back, for she will come back. Sometimes the poison is the medicine.

With that, again you will ask her to keep seeking guidance from God.

But this medicime is not for now.
ume bilal
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« Reply #40 on: Sep 26, 2008 09:19 PM »

Assalamo Ailkum.
Thank you so much for the response. Bro  Timbuktu please do not think that you write to much.  It actually helps me put some structure in my mind......

You are absoloutely right I must stop thinking about "negative outcomes". I must keep my Iman strong and trust in Allah.

I will reply in more detail soon, aplease excuse me, as I have an eye problem and cannot stay on the  computer for too long.
Salaams to all.
Hugs fro Sr. Fozia's girls.
JJ



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« Reply #41 on: Oct 03, 2008 09:12 AM »

Assalamu alaikum,

what a terrible predicament you find yourself in. To be honest i dont think theres much you can do at the moment. I hate to say this but you need to ask yourself question on how you raised your children.
Did they have a tradtional/liberal upbringing
did you allow free mixing
did you give her far too much freedom to do what she likes
i have no idea.....but has parents we have responsiblity to protect our children from things that may disturb them while they are growing up.
i dont feel your daugther can be blamed for saying islam does not not give women and men the same rights.....its just shows her basic knowledge of islam is not there.
the best thing you can do for her is make dua, at the moment nothing else will help not even words. this poor girl is lost only Allah can guide her.

wassalam

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« Reply #42 on: Jan 05, 2009 10:55 PM »

ws I know how you feel my sister went out of islam  for awhile but now she is back mashallah we just had to let her be Allah guides who he wills
whoever Allah guides there is no one who can lead him astray and whoever Allah leads astray there is no one who can save him.
But I will keep her in my prayer

My Allah guide my son to the righteous path
Mohammed AbdulMaged Elsayed 10/19/08 2months and three weeks
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« Reply #43 on: Feb 04, 2009 08:30 AM »

Salam alaikum wrb,

Honorable sister,

     Your daughter is deluded in thinking that this man is the only one for her. Verily women have a choice
on who they get married to, and they can accept or reject any proposals made to them.

      You did the right thing in having other muslim men meet with her, though she did not seem interested
in them. You should continue to have muslim men meet with her (in an Islamic way), and make marriage
proposals to her, until she realizes that she has a choice on who to accept as a husband. When she comes
to that realization, she will also realize that she has to obey Allah's commands, and only get married to a
muslim, and rid herself of any evil whispers given by the shaitan to be in any forbidden relationships, and stop
committing this grave sin.

       Illicit marriages and having illegal sexual relationships are not by the stars and horoscopes, rather it is
whisper of the shaitaan to lead people to the hell fire; rather all the destiny is by Allah, and Allah commands the people obey Him, and not commit sins. All people should stop immediately any forbidden relationships, and learn
and follow the ordainments of Allah and His final messenger  saw .


And Allah knows 

May Allah increase you in knowledge.
Take a look at my site:  http://www.tajwid.info

Also a good site with several mp3 durus of beneficial knowledge from our ulema, fiqh explaining the book "bulgh Maram" , Q&A, http://www.imamfaisal.com
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