// The Democratic National Convention
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blackrose
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« on: Aug 30, 2008 01:07 AM »


Asalamualaikum!

Did anyone get to watch? I didnt watch on tv bc I just dont have the habit of turning on tv so I caught up on most speeches online.  I watched Michell Obama (love her!) , Hillary Clinton (gr8 speaker, gr8 speech but wished she said something personal like how she learned from him from her campaign or some experienc e with him which proves his character but other than that all good. she did what was expected , no reason to expect more. I like how Bill Clinton touched on Obamas personal qualities specially bout the example bout how they used the age thing on him also. Biden made some good points also. Last but not least I got to see Obamas speech on tv. The speech was not  splendid (all the others got me almost crying and emotional but not his)  but it was still gr8 and covered everything that needed to be covered. He proved that he was ready and tough and made a good point that it wasnt bout him but 'us' . He was neutral, meaning his speech shouldnt hurt neone which is sensitive to a certain issue. He proved that his aim was to help everyone and that we should still be treated equal no matter if our issues are different.
May he win inshAllah and bring 'change' which is desparately needed!
I love all the speeches, they were so interesting, I wouldnt mind listening to them again but
 that requires time and time should not be wasted!

I heard Ingrid Mattson (isnas pres) also spoke but I cant find her speech? 

what did all of you think?

salaam
LeylaNur
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Remembrance of Allah is the true source of peace..


« Reply #1 on: Aug 30, 2008 10:12 PM »

I have a very negative view on both Obama AND McCain.. I cringed at Obama's speech the other night when he started talking about:

- losing dependency on MidEast oil
- energy efficient cars
- paying teachers more
- "terrorists"

Really, I just turned it off after that because I got so annoyed!

1. The U.S. is never going to lose dependency on MidEast oil. For one reason, there are lobbyists as well as diplomatic this and diplomatic that.. MidEast oil is lining a lot of political pockets! This is also a "gateway" for them to get in there and rip up Alaska making the U.S. into a hell hole. No one seems to wonder what effect all this terrible stuff we are doing to the planet is going to have on our kids, and their kids, and their kids.. What kind of world are we leaving them? Even the stupid water bottles where most people go through six a day just end up in landfills.. But I'm going off my point. The only thing I could think here was "bull!"

2. Energy efficient cars.. Yeah right. How much do "energy efficient cars" cost? A lot more than the gas guzzlers.. Now you may say long term they end up costing less with the gas charges.. Maybe and maybe not. Also, not many people have the up front money to pay for the more expensive cars or even to finance them monthly. I am driving an old car from 2000 which is admittedly, a gas guzzler, but the highway mileage isn't too different from what they've got going out there unless they are hybrids. I figure that with the cost of buying a new car, the down-payment, monthly payments, interest, etc, PLUS the gas, I'm better off paying for a gallon or so more of gas and not having any additional payments. I think one of the reasons the hybrids and "energy efficient" cars are so expensive, and why they weren't developed sooner and still aren't being utilized to their full capacity is that the oil companies wouldn't like that.. I was never big on conspiracy theories, and I'm still not.. But I know a lot of money changes hands and sometimes I feel that the car companies get a payoff for not making simple changes where we wouldn't rely on petrol or where the technology would be faster coming out and more affordable.

3. Paying teachers more? How about paying EVERYONE more.. Teachers usually have bachelor's degrees and get paid better than many other employed people out there. It is arguable that the job they do is noble, but many people DO see it as just a job. There are plenty of jaded teachers out there and the idealistic ones are usually the newbies. In any case, teachers have it pretty good even if their job is tough.. The hours are good, they have off summers and holidays, get home early, have EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT benefits for medical and dental. I'm not devaluing teachers, but this is as cliched for politicians to say as Miss America wishing for world peace.

4. Terrorists.. Grr! Whenever I hear that word out of a politician's mouth I just cringe. It's like when people mention the crusades or "holy war". I just can't help thinking "BS!" I don't think there was really EVER a war fought for the primary reason of religion. Religion is just a tool that the people in charge use to get the average joe worked up and willing to fight. It's fuel for the propaganda machine. The crusades were about claiming land and Eastern riches, and I feel the same way about today's branding of "terrorists". "Terrorists" are a rather convenient excuse to butt in and take what we want in the name of national security. It's killing our sons, brothers, husbands, so the rich can line their pockets with their oil stakes and so we have a national villain. Before it was the communists, now it's the Muslims! (Notice TV from before 9-11 and the "bad guy" was always a communist, now the bad guy is always a "terrorist".

I just feel that they spout all this bunk and get people riled up for things that SOUND good.. But really, none of this stuff is ever delivered, and if it is, it's usually in a way that just gets the people in charge what they want. If every politician made good on "paying teachers more" like they have every election since God knows when.. Teachers would be making a million dollars an hour. What about receptionists, gas station attendants, retail workers, factory workers?

Why can't people make GENUINE promises? Why can't they have GENUINE plans? Instead, it's all just spouting what they need to spout to get people elected and then serving themselves to a big fat helping. It's funny how presidents don't receive a large salary, but they all retire rich.

Don't even get me started on Obama's anti-Muslim issues.. The other candidates aren't infected with "Muslims have cooties" syndrome. Obama keeps denying and denying like we are lepers. At least Hillary traveled to Islamic countries and wore a scarf and tried to be diplomatic.

I just hate it, hate it, hate it. I really can't see any good in the US political system at all. That doesn't make me a traitor to my country, I love AMERICA i just hate American politics!

I try to remember to count my blessings each day because I have many:

To be thankful for my health, and that of my loved ones, the presence of my husband and the continuation of our marriage, that we can pay our bills and have food on the table..

So many blessings but often, so little thanks!
Blessedgrandma
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 31, 2008 06:49 AM »

I'll be quite honest, this election coming up scared the beegeebers out of me.
Enough to wish there was somewhere else to move to (another country)
I love my country but hate what's happened to it over the years.
I fear neither man is what this country needs. As a mom and grandma, I truly
fear where this country is heading.
I don't even feel good voting for the 'lesser or two evils'
Faizah
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 31, 2008 05:52 PM »

Politics isn't perfect because it's operated by people.  The two major political parties have hidden agendas and they aren't for the benefit of all people; just the select few - the wealthy and connected.  The US may have once been a democracy run by the people but it no longer is; its a republic run by supposedly elected representatives. 

Obama is labeled the "black" candidate yet he's bi-racial.  It is also said that he made history by being the first African-American nominated by a major party yet from a historical context he's not the first; just the first in modern history.  His opposition and the media brought up his Muslim upbringing and family connection only because we life in this post-9/11 era of Islamophobia and it is for this reason that he needs to keep denying it although I think he protests too much.

McCain is yet another old white guy who wants to be president.  We've had enough of that already and look where it is had gotten us. 

If Obama were to lose it would prove that the US is still filled with bigotry and racial hatred and if he were to win I'd fear for his safety which again proves that the US is still filled with bigotry and racial hatred (as if we didn't know that already).  If McCain were to win it would prove that the US is run by the wealthy (as if we didn't know that already).

I'm not sure if any of the minor party candidates are any better of an option.  This nation is still very much racist and sexist and religiously divided.  There is increasingly more immorality; a increasingly widenig gap between the "haves" and "have nots"; take your pick.

I agree that there is no way that everyone can afford to "upgrade" as the candidates and existing government officials and corporate heads say we should. I couldn't afford to buy a new car - not on my income while raising children.  The change to digital tv signals; not everyone can afford to buy new sets or for that matter afford the converter boxes even with the coupons (2 per household when many households have more than 2 sets).  All these upgrades are for the benefit of increasing corporate profits and not to benefit the masses. 

Yes everyone (well the majority) need pay raises although everyone needs to re-evaluate their priorities and learn to downgrade their lifestyles. I think teachers were singled out because they have been given the obligation to educate the next generation. 

What a mess; but no place is perfect - because society is run by people.

Fa'izah

blackrose
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 31, 2008 07:25 PM »

salaam

Im not sure why my post was erased? (the small two liner written after Leyla Nurs?)

I was just saying that I dont think he said anything that could stir up controversary or scare us. he only mentioned 'terrorist' like once. I dont think he said anything that he shouldnt have.

Also If someone kept repeatedly claiming that I was Christian then I would repeatedly also have to deny it.

He is not Muslim so we can not expect him to think like one.

Well I think that its our Islamic duty to vote in this election. And if we feel one is less 'evil ' than the other then we need to pick that person because if the more evil gets picked and we didnt vote then it could be on us.

The main mission with obama is that he want s to end the war in Iraq.  and if Mcain wins how much more longer is the war going to go on? How many more lives lost? 

Obama also proclaims change and we really need that, we need to get the economy back up. HOw many more lay offs? With the republican as president for eight yrs the economy has only gotten worse.

No matter what his stance on in Israel /Palestine issue atleast he went to Palestine also unlike Mcain who only spoke with Israel.

Atleast Obama has first hand dealt wth Muslims, lived in a Muslim country, He is also biracial so he can relate to us.  yes sis Faizah I always wonder why he s labeled as the 'black' candidate when he s actually biracial. Meaning he is just as much 'white' as he is black.

Im really surprised as some Muslims are not even willing to vote, and not even take the chance. Even when they know we will be better off with Obama then Mcain. If still stay as they are , who knows what new creepy laws can be made against us. what will happen to us , atleast think of the safety of your children.

thats all I have to say for now. Please think long and hard before you decide that you dont want to vote.
AbdulBasir
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 31, 2008 08:46 PM »

salam

Both candidates aren't great, but who would be worse? Allahu A'lam. Choose the lesser of two evils and participate in the surrounding society; for the Muslim community, the participation is *more* important than the choice. If someone doesn't understand why examine both the history of other minorities in the US as well as the history of Muslim minorities in other lands and other times.

The most important thing the Muslims in the US politically did was overwhelmingly vote for GW in 2000. Yes, you heard me right. A disastrous choice, but a choice nevertheless that elicited an awareness from both parties to start looking at Muslim concerns (look at the 2000 election process closely). GW was terrible; honestly I couldn't bare to vote for such a fool in 2000 and voted for Gore, but I regret NOT voting for GW in the sense that I did not participate in a fledgling Muslim political movement at that time.

Boycotting elections, no matter how flawed the process, will not help your community in either the short or long term. It's just a way of marginalizing yourself even more, and not in the long-term interests for both Muslims or the general American society. Morever, we should not just perceive elections in our Muslim-issues only lens because the general welfare of all people can also be considerably affected by other issues. Yusuf AS was oppressed, abused and thrown in jail by the people; yet when he was in jail when he had a solution to a social problem, he didn't remain silent, he didn't say why should I participate and help these people who have put me in jail. He participated because as a caller to Allah he genuinely cared for the greater society.

I personally don't like either candidate for various reasons, but if given the opportunity I would still choose the lesser of two evils.

Please read an excerpt from one of the great scholars of our time, Shaykh Abdullah bin Biyyah. The full link is included below (the emphasis in the text is mine):

Ahlu l-'aahad are Muslim people in minority status in non-Muslim lands. Each of these groups has different rules that apply to it. In relation to the people of 'aahad, there are things that we have to understand. [The shaykh explained that he is giving you his personal opinion, and it is the amaanah (trust) of the translator to relate that.] I feel it is important that people are concerned with political candidates in this country. If we support the candidates who are known to have positive attitudes towards the Muslims and who are supportive of Muslim causes and even those who are just better people than the opposing candidates, in the usooli knowledge, this would be considered taking the lesser of two evils. In a non-Muslim situation, voting and not voting are both not good situations, but as a community that does not engage themselves and yet is affected by the political instruments, the lack of participation can end up being a greater evil than the participation itself. This is something that has to be looked at and balanced. In my opinion, it is probably a greater evil not to be participating at all and to simply be disengaged from the process. So, as Muslims, people should come together as one hand and create blocks to where they can try to have some influence to the best of their ability.


http://www.themodernreligion.com/world/muslims-living.html

salam
LeylaNur
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Remembrance of Allah is the true source of peace..


« Reply #6 on: Aug 31, 2008 10:24 PM »

Eek! I totally FORGOT about the Jerusalem thing.. Didn't he go to Israel for like two days and then only spend like, two hours in Palestine?

I have fears that he seeks to align with the zionists in this movement as many evangelical (and even non-evangelical) Christians tend to..

:: Starts banging head on wall ::  Angry

I try to remember to count my blessings each day because I have many:

To be thankful for my health, and that of my loved ones, the presence of my husband and the continuation of our marriage, that we can pay our bills and have food on the table..

So many blessings but often, so little thanks!
Hayfa
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 01, 2008 08:06 PM »

Yes I agree there is the "lesser of two evils" in these elections.

And really.. Obama opposed the war in Iraq from the start. When it was not politically a good idea. yes he wants to get elected as president. So you have to come to middle positions. The positions we hold and others hold are a minority in the United States. Most people haven't a clue or have been brainwashed where Israel is concerned. And really it was mentioned only once in his speech.

And franly he was right in the war in Iraq. The US has spent over 700 trillion dollarsa there. Now with the downturn in the economy there is no surplus, only debt. And little in sight.

And really, considering the climate in the US, if I were him I would not be associating with too many Muslims. Not in the game of politics. If he does asociate himself then we will not get elected. Period.

I don't think either one would have an easy job of it.. The Bush machine has really destroyed many aspects of this society.

Iwas reading a Muslim lecture and the speaker was saying that in the time of the Shahaba when deciding who would lead they often would choose the person who DID not want to lead. THose who did not want the "power" for they knew the dangers. Its the same. Most of us would act far more morally, and we would know the stakes and would know the consequences of our actions. That is why I respect Nelson Mandela so much. He could have had 100% power in South Africa but he walked away. 
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