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Author Topic: Pakistan Lawmaker Defends Honor Killings!  (Read 2234 times)
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« on: Aug 30, 2008 06:56 PM »


Pakistani lawmaker defends honor killings
Tribesmen bury five women alive for wanting to choose their own husbands
 
 
 

updated 2 hours, 35 minutes ago
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - A Pakistani lawmaker defended a decision by southwestern tribesmen to bury five women alive because they wanted to choose their own husbands, telling stunned members of Parliament this week to spare him their outrage.

"These are centuries-old traditions and I will continue to defend them," Israr Ullah Zehri, who represents Baluchistan province, said Saturday. "Only those who indulge in immoral acts should be afraid."

The women, three of whom were teenagers, were first shot and then thrown into a ditch.

They were still breathing as their bodies were covered with rocks and mud, according media reports and human rights activists, who said their only "crime" was that they wished to marry men of their own choosing.

Zehri told a packed and flabbergasted Parliament on Friday that Baluch tribal traditions helped stop obscenity and then asked fellow lawmakers not to make a big fuss about it.

Many stood up in protest, saying the executions were "barbaric" and demanding that discussions continue Monday. But a handful said it was an internal matter of the deeply conservative province.

"I was shocked," said lawmaker Nilofar Bakhtiar, who pushed for legislation calling for perpetrators of so-called honor killings to be punished when she served as minister of women's affairs under the last government.

"I feel that we've gone back to the starting point again," she said. "It's really sad for me."

Accounts vary
The incident allegedly occurred one month ago in Baba Kot, a remote village in Jafferabad district, after the women decided to defy tribal elders and arrange marriages in a civil court, according to the Asian Human Rights Commission.

They were said to have been abducted at gunpoint by six men, forced into a vehicle and taken to a remote field, where they were beaten, shot and then buried alive, it said, accusing local authorities of trying to hush up the killings.

One of perpetrators was allegedly related to a top provincial official, it said.

Accounts about the killings have varied, largely because police in the tribal region have been uncooperative. Activists and lawmakers said a more thorough investigation needed to be carried out.

The Asian Human Rights Commission, however, said the two older women may have been related to some of the teenage girls and were apparently murdered because they were sympathetic to their wishes.

   


Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
LeylaNur
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« Reply #1 on: Aug 30, 2008 10:28 PM »

I hope this guy rots in hell..  Angry I hope when he is dead he lives an eternity of being shot and buried alive while people stand over him and judge him and defend sick actions.

I am sick of all these men without a shred of empathy committing HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE deeds in the names of tradition and Islam.

Honor killings, FGM, it all makes me SICK.

These mothers need to stop raising their sons to think they are king of the world and everything is due to them and that women are possessions.

What a sick, sad world we live in!  Sad

I try to remember to count my blessings each day because I have many:

To be thankful for my health, and that of my loved ones, the presence of my husband and the continuation of our marriage, that we can pay our bills and have food on the table..

So many blessings but often, so little thanks!
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 30, 2008 10:42 PM »

Asalamualaikum wrt wb,


All praise be to Allah.



I did not read anything that said these actions were done in the name of Islam.  Islam forbids killing innocent life.  Unless these women were married and committed adultery and were convicted in a court of Law with four male just eyewitnessess stating they saw penetration with identical accounts of what happened, or they confessed to the crime under no compulsion, there is no justification for such spilling of innocent blood.

In fact, if the strict conditions needed for the hadd are not met, in accordance to Islamic Law the perpetrators of such murder are to be killed in retaliation.


In short, this type of murder has nothing to do with Islam.  However, I must add that there must be proper verification of the actual events, as news agencies have been known to lie or exaggerate the truth.


And Allah knows best.

Be merciful to those on earth, and the One in the Heavens will be merciful to you.
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 30, 2008 10:51 PM »

I didn't say THIS particular act was done in the name of Islam..

He mentioned "tradition" and in Pakistan "tradition" is often confused and upheld (wrongly! astagfirullah!  Angry) under the banner of "Islam"..

Same with FGM and many other SICK practices. I really don't know where these guys get in their minds that they are the dealers of justice. I think some of them are just psychopaths that in other countries would become serial killers or sociopaths who have no sense of empathy for other human beings and their suffering.

God, I feel sick just thinking about it. It must be the way these men are raised because I have seen MANY, MANY men from these countries (and many, many more who are not that way at all) who have such coldness in their eyes when it comes to the suffering of others.

If anything should be cleansed from this earth, it's these cold-hearted, "justice"-dealing sociopaths who use Islam as an excuse (under false usage) to do TERRIBLE things in this earth.  Angry

However, all final justice belongs to Allah (swt) and I have confidence these horrible men will get what they deserve as well as these poor women getting some kind of benefit in their favor for the horrible way they were forced to live out their last moments and die.

God, I know I am rambling.. But I can't help thinking these girls were probably going to be forced by their parents to marry men much older or men they did not like at all and being forced into a life of servitude and misery. This horrible man who said this is probably a grandfather aged old man who took their refusal personally because he likes to think that his 11 year old brides that are forced on him are compliant.

Grr, grr and more grr!  Angry

I try to remember to count my blessings each day because I have many:

To be thankful for my health, and that of my loved ones, the presence of my husband and the continuation of our marriage, that we can pay our bills and have food on the table..

So many blessings but often, so little thanks!
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 31, 2008 01:40 AM »

salaam

Quote
did not read anything that said these actions were done in the name of Islam.  Islam forbids killing innocent life.  Unless these women were married and committed adultery and were convicted in a court of Law with four male just eyewitnessess stating they saw penetration with identical accounts of what happened, or they confessed to the crime under no compulsion, there is no justification for such spilling of innocent blood.

even if they did committ adultery which im sure they didnt, Islamically this punishment would still be wrong, right?!
we are talking about burying people Alive
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 31, 2008 02:49 AM »

As salaamu alaikum

I too agree that this is disgusting as well as frightening.  Not just because it is something that is not from Islam but from what is often referred to as "Hislam" but also because acts such as this further fuel the fire of the opponents of Islam along with the super-progressive muslims to force major changes in Islam. 

Where was the outrage before these women were pulled from their homes?  Where were their fathers the ones that were supposed to protect them?  Where were the men they chose to marry and what was done to them?  If there was some belief that these women were acting immoral for making a choice then should not the men they chose to marry also be deemed as acting immoral for even making contact with the women for them to make such a choice?

What is going on with the ummah?  Far too many people seem out of control.  Cultural tradition has been interwined with Islamic tradition yet Islam was supposed to make life better; make people better; do away with cultural traditions that served to oppress rather than liberate - particularly women.  How is this tolerated?  Or more to the point how can we fix this mess?

I agree that changes in parenting styles need to change.  Parents need to stop raising sons to believe that they are the "be all and end all" and stop raising daughters to be submissive subservient and unable to think for themselves.  There also needs to be a change in thinking - period.  Men and women have equal rights and responsibilities and those rights and responsibilities are supposed to be complimentary and thus provide balance.  What we have is lack of balance with the scales tipped in favor of men.

I echo the "grrr  grrr and more grrr".

Fa'izah
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« Reply #6 on: Sep 02, 2008 02:35 PM »


even if they did committ adultery which im sure they didnt, Islamically this punishment would still be wrong, right?!
we are talking about burying people Alive
[/quote]

OF COURSE, if they did committ adultry they would have had to be seen byt four diffrent pepole and not just 4 ppl that were suspisose or caught them in an odd postion no 4 pepole who pardon my llanguge saw them haveing sex!!
the whole 'honor killing' thing is so screwed up its just ick. its basiclly the barbrics of man and there want for control. No offense to any brothers out there i speak purly of the sexiest spinless idiots who committ such inhumane acts.

Peace out.
Nusaiba hijabisis
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 03, 2008 01:07 PM »

Asalamualaikum wrt wb,


All praise be to Allah.


As I said before, this act of murder has nothing to do with Islam.  Furthermore, even the non-Muslims who wrote the article had enough sense not to mention Islam.  Why are Muslims then claiming this has anything to do with Islam?


Islam is what is based on the Quran and Sunnah.  Anything that goes against that is ignorance, Bid'aah, innovation, falsehood, evil, etc.  This act has nothing to do with Islam.  In fact, as I said, these murderers should be apprehended by the Imam (Islamic leader) of the Muslims, tried, and executed. 


Furthermore, even if we suppose they made an unlawful marriage contract, they would not be liable to Hadd, since this is known in Fiqh as "dukhool bi Ashubha", consummation in doubtful circumstances.  The fact that there was a contract, even if it turns out later to to an invalid one, negates the enforciblity of the Hudud.



Anyone who claims this murder had anything to do with Islam is mistaken.  Islam is free from such ignorance, rather Islam teaches the Qisaas, which if applied would put an end to such barbarism.

And Allah knows best.

Be merciful to those on earth, and the One in the Heavens will be merciful to you.
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« Reply #8 on: Sep 12, 2008 09:30 PM »

HONOR KILLINGS PERSIST IN 'MAN'S WORLD'

By NBC News’ Shahid Qazi and Carol Grisanti

BABAKOT, Pakistan – In a tangle of bushes and trees outside a remote village in southwest Pakistan, six close male relatives of three teenage girls dug a 4-foot wide by 6-foot deep ditch, on a sweltering night in mid-July, and allegedly buried the girls alive.

The girls' crime: they dared to defy the will of their fathers and the customs of their tribe and choose their own husbands. The mother of one of the girls and the aunt of another were shot and killed while begging for the girls’ lives, according to local media reports.

 
NBC News 
A busy street in the village of Babakot, Pakistan. 


The incident has touched off widespread condemnation from human rights groups, but also a sturdy defense from local officials. "This action was carried out according to tribal traditions," said Israrullah Zehri, a senator representing Balochistan in the upper house of Pakistan’s parliament in the capital Islamabad. "These are centuries-old traditions and I will continue to defend them," he said. 

We visited the scene and interviewed locals to try and learn more about this gruesome crime.

Daring to defy tradition
Saarang Mastoi is the local journalist who broke the story. He told us that on July 14, Fatima, Fauzia and Jannat Bibi, aged 16 to 18, got into a taxi in Babakot, a small village of farmers and sheepherders in Pakistan’s Balochistan province, and drove about one hour to the village of Usta Mohammed to meet their boyfriends. The girls were chatting in the back of the taxi about their plans to meet the boys at the local restaurant and then go to a civil court to marry them.

The taxi driver dropped the girls off and then drove straight back to Babakot to inform their families about the secret plans he had overheard in the back of his taxi, according to Mastoi.

The girls’ decision to elope came after their male relatives and tribal elders had refused them permission to marry the boys of their choice because they were from another tribe.

The families of the girls belong to the wealthy feudal Umrani tribe in Balochistan. The uncle of one of the girls is a minister in the Balochistan provincial government and a deputy leader of the ruling Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP), according to an investigation into the incident by Human Rights Watch. 

 
NBC News 
Ali Baksh, a shepherd in Babakot, who defended the punishment given to the girls. 


Traditional justice
Almost immediately after the taxi driver’s return, a posse of male relatives, including fathers, uncles and brothers, set out from Babakot for the village of Usta Mohammed to bring the girls home. The men arrived in land cruiser jeeps bearing Balochistan government license plates – one belonging to the district mayor, according to Human Rights Watch.

The girls were kicked, punched and then pushed into the vehicles at gunpoint, Mastoi, the journalist, said. Once back at home in Babakot, the girls were beaten again and interrogated by their fathers and uncles for almost one hour before their "verdict" was announced.

They would be killed – buried alive.

The girls were dragged into vehicles and taken to the end of a back road in Babakot accompanied by two female relatives, according to media reports. The men dug ditches and ordered the girls to be thrown in. When the female relatives saw the ditches, they tried to intervene and begged for the girls’ lives, according to local media reports.

There was "pandemonium at the site," according to the findings of the Asian Human Rights Commission, and a tribal elder gave orders to shoot the two older women. They died immediately and were thrown into the wide ditch. The three girls, who were wounded in the gunfire but still alive, were then thrown in and covered with sand and mud.

In Pakistan’s rural areas, male tribal councils decide the fate of women who bring dishonor to their family. In 2004, President Pervez Musharraf outlawed the practice, known as "honor killings" – violations of the law carry the death penalty. But the law is impossible to enforce because this centuries old custom for dealing with women is protected by powerful feudal landlords and tribal elders.

Mastoi, the local reporter, told NBC News that "powerful people" from the Umrani tribe had threatened him and warned him of consequences if he continued to report the story. He said that everyone in the village knew what happened and shortly after the murders, a couple of shepherds in the area had taken him to see the actual burial site. "Now everyone is too afraid to talk," he said.

‘It’s a man’s world’
Only about 7,000 people live in Babakot, a run down and dusty place about 200 miles south of the provincial capital, Quetta. Donkey carts carrying women, children and poor farmers give way on the road to the shiny 4X4 Land Cruisers of the wealthy landowners and tribal chiefs.

Ali Baksh, a frail shepherd with a thin scruffy white beard, has been tending his sheep in the neighboring district of Naseerabad since he was seven years old.  When asked what he thought about the murders in Babakot, he stared blankly for a few seconds and then he said, "I am proud of our Balouch traditions and it was the right punishment for those girls who defied the will of their fathers."

Public outcry by human rights groups and lawmakers has forced the federal government in Islamabad to open an investigation into what happened in Babakot six weeks ago. 

 
NBC News 
An elderly woman in Babakot who said, “It’s a man’s world and these things will never stop."


But the Asian Human Rights Commission believes a full accounting of the events may be impossible: "The Balochistan police have removed three of the five bodies and started destroying any evidence that might prove useful to an eventual investigation."

Back in Babakot, the reaction of an elderly woman to questions about the story seemed to confirm the human rights groups' fears. When asked about the story, she refused to give her name, sighed and waved off any hope for justice in this case. "It’s a man’s world and these things will never stop," she said.

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« Reply #9 on: Sep 13, 2008 08:11 AM »

This is disgusting. All those men should be tried for murder. How dare they take an innocent life, let alone three into their own hands, and even that of 2 more, their aunts trying to protect them! Astaghfirullah. This is the problem when people turn into vigilantes trying to enforce what they believe to be 'right' and 'islamic'. They need stronger laws for honor killings and they need more widespread teachings from real scholars so people know this is WRONG and HARAM.

sick.

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« Reply #10 on: Sep 13, 2008 10:17 PM »

They should kill or cut off body parts of the "honor killers".. (cutting off their noses or "male parts" should be good motivation for these "honor fueled" MONSTERS. I think they deserve a little less "honor" after depriving others of their lives so they can keep their "honor". There should be no "honor" derived from killing ANYONE.

Seriously, these SICK individuals need to be wiped out in some way before they pollute the next generations. Maybe a little 'Clockwork Orange'esque re-programming?

 Angry

I try to remember to count my blessings each day because I have many:

To be thankful for my health, and that of my loved ones, the presence of my husband and the continuation of our marriage, that we can pay our bills and have food on the table..

So many blessings but often, so little thanks!
ume bilal
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 14, 2008 01:27 AM »

Assalm Ailkum.
What a sad story....this is murder, there is no honour in taking life... How frightened these girls must have been in their last moments of life. These men are not human. Kiyamah comes to all as they have judged they will be judged.
Even where sin has been committed let Allah be the judge...
Salaams.
JJ
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