// Why will there be more women in Hell than men?
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lucid
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« Reply #25 on: Oct 06, 2008 02:06 AM »


May Allah reward you Br. Khalid for your inspiring words.  You are right, a sick person needs to refer to a learned Doctor, to learn how to get better.  Sometimes, even an ordinary physician is not sufficient, so they need to go to a Specialist, a skilled surgeon, who has attained the relevent knowledge and skill, from teachers who are experts in the field. Would you go to have heart surgery, or brain surgery, with someone who knows nothing about the field?  Worse yet, would you do the surgery yourself?  Only a fool.  The wise person will look for those of knowledge, to attain the best healing.


Normal people practice islam; normal people do not people practice brain surgery.  There is a huge difference.  You want us to believe that we are too clueless to talk about something we have practiced since we were children and which has dominated every facet of our lives.  That is ridiculous.  Islam is not neuroscience -- it was meant for the masses; meant to be practiced by the masses; meant to be understood by the masses; and meant to be embraced by the masses.  This cannot happen if the masses are not entitled to even voice their opinion.  Specialized knowledge is important, and the role of scholars is extremely important. But they do not come at the exclusion of the common people.  Their role is complementary,  not exclusionary. Afterall, there is no priesthood in islam, no matter what many religious authorities would almost have us believe.

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Likewise, it is only an ignorant person who says, "I am smarter than all the ulema in the world.  I will interpret the religion according to my own whims and desires."  Actually, this type of arrogance is what caused the Shaitan to be cursed for eternity; he believed in Allah, but was arrogant against His command to humble himself to Adam.


This is a very extreme point of view.  No lay person would say they are smarter than the ulema.  What they are entitled to say is, "I do not understand why such and is such is asserted, I think this may instead be true, what do you think Sir?"  Such an attitude is utterly devoid of arrogance.  In fact it is arrogant when certain people come and slam people on this board and accuse them of idiocy, gross negligence, borderline kufr and irreligiousity, when all they have done is voice an opinion....

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Here is what one of the specialists in this field, who spent his life studying Shariah, the noble Shaikh Muhammad Salih Munajjid has stated:


The opinion you posted is just a pasting from Islamic Q&A.  It is just a pasting together of various hadith.  If this is the specialized islamic knowledge you are talking about,  I have to scratch my head and wonder....

Is there any subtlety in the posted argument?  How does the opinion below illuminate the subject matter any more a casual person would -- someone who just pasted together a bunch of hadith?

With all respect, I believe a a really detailed scholarly opinion would be much more thorough and nuanced.  The posted opinion in the previous message is just a kind of "fatwa for idiots."  I think we deserve better. I know for sure real Islamic scholarship is much, much more satisfying.

 assalamualaikum
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« Reply #26 on: Oct 06, 2008 05:39 AM »

salaam

Brother Khalid you have repeatedly reminded us of the hadith to say 'salaam' but for some reason Cheese does Not get it.


I stand by what I say as noone has refuted it. It would be interesting to hear Hamza Yusuf's take on the hadith. ..
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« Reply #27 on: Oct 06, 2008 07:43 AM »

Asalaamu Alaikum  bro


Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri radiahu


The Prophet saw said,

"On the day of Resurrection Allah will say, 'O Adam!'

Adam will reply, 'Labbaik our Lord, and Sa'daik '

Then there will be a loud call (saying), Allah orders you to take from among your offspring a mission for the (Hell) Fire.'

Adam will say, 'O Lord! Who are the mission for the (Hell) Fire?'

Allah will say, 'Out of each thousand, take out 999.'

At that time every pregnant female shall drop her load (have a miscarriage) and a child will have grey hair. And you shall see mankind as in a drunken state, yet not drunk, but severe will be the torment of Allah." (22.2)


(When the Prophet mentioned this), the people were so distressed (and afraid) that their faces got changed (in color) whereupon the Prophet said,

"From Gog and Magog nine-hundred ninety-nine will be taken out and one from you.

You Muslims (compared to the large number of other people) will be like a black hair on the side of a white ox, or a white hair on the side of a black ox, and I hope that you will be one-fourth of the people of Paradise.

" On that, we said, "Allahu-Akbar!"

Then he said, "I hope that you will be one-third of the people of Paradise.

" We again said, "Allahu-Akbar!"

Then he said, "(I hope that you will be) one-half of the people of Paradise." So we said, Allahu Akbar."

[Bukhari]


Say: "O ye my servants who believe! Fear your Lord, good is (the reward) for those who do good in this world. Spacious is God's earth! those who patiently persevere will truly receive a reward without measure!" [39:10]
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« Reply #28 on: Oct 07, 2008 10:47 AM »

Salam Br Khalid

Thank you for posting that. I too have had problems with certain ayahs or hadiths when I first came across them  Undecided
However, my rule of the thumb is simple. Allah SWT is ar-Rahman and ar-Raheem. That is His sifahs. He cannot be other than gracious and merciful. This goes for His other attributes, some of which, it is argued, is His dzat. One of which is 'Adl.

So with all these sifahs and dzats, how can Allah SWT create laws or pre-destined anything that would serve as an injustice to anyone, big or small ? Therefore ayahs like the one you clarified must have a holistic explanation behind it that when we understand more about them, we will be amazed by their beauty and justness. I guess the practice of husnu dzan must be a way of life, towards mankind, prophets and Allah SWT.

Just my ramble.

Wassalam
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« Reply #29 on: Oct 08, 2008 07:26 AM »

Lucid i remind the recommendation ---you have a great Job opportunity in Turney they have a project in hand wherein they are "Pick and Choose"-ing Hadith to suit their wishes and wishes of their western and jewish masters they will whole heartedly embrace you in there.


This cannot happen if the masses are not entitled to even voice their opinion. 

[Holy Quran 33:36]
"It is not fitting for the believing man nor for the believing woman, that whenever Allah and His Messenger have decided any matter, that they should have any other opinion."

What they are entitled to say is, "I do not understand why such and is such is asserted, I think this may instead be true, what do you think Sir?" 

For that you your self should have indepth scholarly understanding of Shariah. You should not forget "Little knowledge is dangerous thing" theres a saying where i live which may roughly be translated as "Half-baked Doctor is dangerous to health and Half-Baked Mullah is dangerous to Iman"

Assignment for you: Islam also speaks about Inheritance- Consider a person having all possible relations and consider all possible scenarios. Now if this person has 123456/- amount worth belongings and he makes a will of 21.3% and he dies what will all his relations get in different scenarios. Now you are not taking help of any scholar . You are using only your skull (i didnt used the word brains for obvious reason).
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« Reply #30 on: Oct 08, 2008 07:39 AM »

salam

quote from UN
Quote
It seems you werenot able to understand the simple english translation of the Hadith. Do a favour get enrolled in some primary english teaching institute where kids are taught.

No one will be in hell but they deserve that. Donot consider yourself to be more Just, more Merciful, more Logical than Allah (nouzbillah) watch your deeds lets in thought about others you fall in ditch of hell.

well brother i have understood whatever i have written here.
and watch your words.
i don't consider myself to be all dat u have written.
My intention here was just to make people aware of the hadiths.

jazakALLAH

Narrated AbuHurayrah:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to say: "O Allah, I seek refuge in Thee from four things: Knowledge which does not profit, a heart which is not submissive, a soul which has an insatiable appetite, and a supplication which is not heard."
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« Reply #31 on: Oct 08, 2008 09:00 AM »

I Apologise... For all the mean things I might have said.

I Apologise... For all the things I did or didn't do.

I Apologise... If I ever made you feel bad or put you down.

I Apologise... If I ever thought I was better than you.

I Apologise... For everything wrong I've ever done.

Sorry Sister, if you felt hurt or offended. My intention was not to do so, neither will i achieve anything from that. I apologize.
cheese
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« Reply #32 on: Oct 08, 2008 03:27 PM »

Lucid do you decide what the Prophet saw says, or does what he (saw) say determines what you decide?

That is the key point.
Do humans make God, or did God make humans.
Atheists believe Humans make the gods they worship.

For every religion other then Islam and for every god other than Allah they are right.

We know from the above Hadith that Allah has placed more women in hell than men.
Some people have decided they don’t believe in this, the god they believe in has put more men in hell than women or has placed exactly the same amount of men in hell as women.
They have made this god, because they have rejected the one in our scripture.

To claim you do not reject Allah but reject the scripture of Allah just moves the question on to the next level.
Do you believe in what the Prophet revealed or does what he reveal determine what you believe?
Do you understand what this question means?
Let me explain. Our Prophet (saw) lived 14 hundred years ago, is he going to use Lucid who is born about fourteen hundred years later as his criterion for what our Prophet reveals or is it lucid’s job to follow and believe in what was revealed 1400 years ago?
OK if you say you reject that Hadith but accept the Prophethood of Allah’s final messenger SAW it just moves the question to the next level.
Do we believe recorded revelation that has been witnessed by prominent Sahaba, was transmitted on a strong trustworthy chain of narration to the most diligent and trustworthy Hadith collectors, or do the Hadith collectors  hear, witness and record what we believe?

The Brothers have missed this point. They attacked lucid for checking the trustworthiness of Hadith known to be trustworthy. But he didn’t do that. Not once. He didn’t talk about the Isnad, he didn’t go in to the science of ilm ul Rijal to state whether the transmitters were liars. He didn’t do any of it. He just rejected it on the bases that HE didn’t agree with it. The hadith didn’t agree with HIS logic.
So the question to him and anyone else who wants to reject Islamic text about Allah on the bases that they do not agree with their week, limited and needy minds is, did you make Allah, or did Allah make you?

The reason why he didn’t do that is it is impossible to get the desired result like that. The Hadith is clearly true. Any look at it from any angle clearly shows that our Prophet really did say it. It was heard by the companions of the Prophet saw themselves, and recorded in both Bukahri and Muslim and has a complete chain of transmission. Sometimes you need to be a scholar to determine whether something is true, but this is not one of those times, these Hadith can clearly be seen to be true even to the most ignorant.

I was going to accuse him of using Logic above Hadith like the deviants of before like the Mutazilla and the Jubriyah. But come to think of it, they used real logic as determined by great civilisations and not the ramblings of discontented feminists.

And this is a new trend that is being imposed on the Muslims by deviant rulers and their Zionists masters. This is being used to get us to reject trustworthy Hadith and even verses of the Quran on the bases that those texts disagree with western enlightenment. So this is why we are told to reject Polygamy, reject chopping the hands of the thieves, reject Khilafah and reject the rest of our religion including beliefs if we are told to do so by the Americans masters(who Knowingly serve Dejjal).
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« Reply #33 on: Oct 08, 2008 03:37 PM »

FYI-

These types of insipid islam-qa e-fatwas are not worth the pixels that its printed on.

More Women than Men in Hell?

"Do not treat people with contempt, nor walk insolently on the earth. Allah does not love the arrogant or the self-conceited boaster. Be modest in your bearing and subdue your voice, for the most unpleasant of voices is the braying of the ass." [The Holy Qur'an, Surah Luqman - 31:18-19]
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« Reply #34 on: Oct 08, 2008 05:49 PM »

salaam

more women in hell?
http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1173364216036

A critical look at Hadiths about Women
http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1177156116051

an article
http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w-hell.html
hajra
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« Reply #35 on: Oct 08, 2008 06:00 PM »

Assalamlaikum everybody
i appologize for creating such strife here..My intention was only to make people aware of these hadiths..


Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 33 Surah Ahzaab verse 35:

35      For muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise; for them has Allah prepared Forgiveness and a Great Reward.

 

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 33 Surah Ahzaab verse 72:

72      Allah hath promised to believers, men and women,  Gardens under which rivers flow to dwell therein and beautiful mansions in gardens of everlasting bliss.  But the greatest bliss is the Good Pleasure of Allah: that is the supreme felicity.

 

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 48 Surah Al-Fath verse 5:

5        That He may admit the men and women who believe to Gardens beneath which rivers flow to dwell therein for aye and remove their ills from them; and that is in the Sight of Allah the Highest Achievement



Now to answer specific question regarding the quoted hadith, whereby the Messenger of Allah (saws) warned that he (saws) was shown Hell Fire and he (saws) saw that the majority of its inhabitants were women.

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 1.28 Narrated by Ibn Abbas

The Prophet (saws) said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?)  He (saws) replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you!"

 

Although most people have taken this authentic quotation of the Messenger of Allah (saws) and used it against the womenfolk, the truth is that most of them have not truly understood the wisdom behind the wise counsel of the Messenger of Allah (saws) and the depth and reality of the wisdom behind the statement.

 

One can only imagine the importance the Prophet (saws) and Islam lays on the development of peace, tranquility, and harmony in a marriage in Islam.  The above statements of the Messenger of Allah (saws) were said when he was addressing the womenfolk, and he (saws) guided them how detestable is their act of constantly complaining and being ungrateful to their husbands in the Sight of Allah, and how this constant complaining and nagging effects the very core of the relationship between a husband and his wife in marriage!

 

There are several ahadeeths of the Messenger of Allah (saws) whereby he warned the men, when his audience were men, regarding the severity and importance of being merciful, kind, charitable, and forgiving towards their wives, and keeping good harmonious relations with their wives in marriage.


 

Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 278         Narrated by Abu Hurayrah

The Prophet (saws) said: ‘The most perfect Muslim in the matter of faith is one who has excellent behaviour; and the best among you are those who behave best towards their wives.’

Sahih Muslim Hadith 3465     Narrated by Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As

Allah's Messenger (saws) said: ‘The whole world is a provision, and the best object of benefit of the world is the pious woman.’

 

Sahih Muslim Hadith 3469     Narrated by Abu Hurayrah


Allah's Messenger (saws) said: ‘a believing man should not hate a believing woman (his wife); if he dislikes one of her characteristics, he will be pleased with another.



The wisdom behind the statement of the Messenger of Allah (saws) warning the believing woman was not to belittle or demean the role of women, but rather a warning and a guidance to make sure they fulfill their part in developing peace, harmony and tranquility in their marriage; and Allah is our witness sister, nothing is more hurtful to men than to hear these words from their wives after a lifetime of sacrifices that ‘'I have never received any good from you!"

 


Although most people who do not fully and truly understand the wisdom behind the statement of the Messenger of Allah (saws) and have taken the words ‘I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful’  literally, assume that the Hell Fire mentioned in the above hadith refers to the complete expanse and all the inhabitants of the Hell-Fire!  The Truth is that just as Paradise has many levels and ranks, the Hell Fire too has many levels and ranks…each reserved for its inhabitants according to the level and severity of their deeds!

 

When the Messenger of Allah (saws) relates in truth that the inhabitants of the Hell-Fire he was shown had a majority of women as its inhabitants, it is very probable that he (saws) was warning about only a particular section and level of Hell where those who were constantly ungrateful were held.  There are many authentic narrations whereby the Messenger of Allah (saws) was shown and talks about particular sections and levels of the Hell Fire and its inhabitants…..


In light of the above absolutely clear guidance of the Quran and Sunnah, it is absolutely evident that the Lord Most High does not base His Justice, His Rewards, and His Sentences of Punishments based on one’s gender or race or color, etc.; but every soul shall reap the results of only what one had sown in their test period of one life on this earth; and Allah is our witness sister, no one will be wronged in the least in that Majestic and Supreme Presence of their Lord Most High.

 

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 36 Surah Yaseen verses 53-54:

53     It will be no more than a Single Blast when lo! They will all be brought up before Us!

54      Then on that Day not a soul will be wronged in the least, and ye shall but be repaid (in full) the meeds of your past deeds.


jazakALLAH...
WHATEVER GOOD IS FROM ALLAH...errors are from me...
ALLAH KNOWZ BEST

Narrated AbuHurayrah:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to say: "O Allah, I seek refuge in Thee from four things: Knowledge which does not profit, a heart which is not submissive, a soul which has an insatiable appetite, and a supplication which is not heard."
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« Reply #36 on: Nov 09, 2008 02:34 AM »

as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,

It's true that we should be able accept reminders, advice, criticism etc from others, but as human beings the *approach* used often effects whether we are willing to accept what is being said or reject it and become defensive.  The Prophet saw was a master at dispensing advice in the best way depending on the audience and the context of the situation.  I'm sure we all know some of the beautiful stories from the seerah in which that is evident ... one of my favorites is about the man who didn't know that it's not allowed to talk during the prayer, and so when he heard someone sneeze during the prayer he said 'YarhamukAllah!'.  The people started staring at him, trying to let him know that he did something wrong, so he looked at them and said 'Why are you looking at me like that?!' (also during the prayer Smiley).  Then the people started to slap their thighs to indicate to him to keep quiet, so he realized he was doing something wrong and stopped talking.

Afterwards, the Prophet saw corrected him and he said about it:   "I have never seen a better teacher than him before or since.  He did not scold me or hit me or put me to shame. He just said, ‘This prayer should contain nothing of the speech of men; it is only tasbeeh and takbeer and recitation of the Quran.’” (Sahih Muslim).

Who can say that about us?  How many times have people walked away from our posts, emails, conversations, etc where we are trying to correct others and felt that they were dealt with in such a kind and respectful way?  Or is our approach only distancing people from accepting the truth? 

There is a duaa from the sunnah that I have always found interesting, 'O Allah, do not make us a fitna for the disbelievers.' We can be a fitna for them by making the truth unpalatable through our own behavior and actions, and thus making them even more obstinant and further from the truth.  That is really a scary thing, and can you imagine being held accountable for doing that to other people, and what about if we are doing that to other Muslims?  Are your efforts bringing about the results you want (bringing people closer to Allah swt) or are they actually backfiring and causing people to dislike or have a distaste for it?  May Allah protect us.

There is a famous quote of a sahabi I think who lived to an old age and saw the next generation emerge after the sahaba and he basically said "There was a time when we were told to fear Allah and we loved that, while if you are told to fear Allah it is something you dislike."  Meaning that people have changed, their level of iman, knowledge and understanding of the deen and their own personal struggles and issues.  I can totally imagine telling someone "Fear Allah!" today and the response being 1. 'Why should I fear Allah?  Isn't He a loving Creator?' = lack of knowledge OR 2. 'Who are you to tell me something like that?  How do you know that I'm not already fearing Him??' = defensiveness/guilt because one is doing something wrong.  In both cases, the approach fails to bring about the results that you want (getting the person to respond!) and I feel that most people we are trying to give dawah to falls into one (or both) of these categories.  So I think we should think about a different way of doing things.  If the person falls into the first category (they have a lack of knowledge) then the most important thing is to lay the right foundation in terms of the persons understanding of the deen, Allah (swt), etc in the first place before talking about specific commandments.  (Remember what A'isha (ra) said about the companions, that if alcohol was prohibited right away in Makkah then everyone would have refused to leave it, and that Allah (swt) started His revelation with the aqa'id and with emphasis on beliefs and changing peoples' understanding before the ahkaam/ rulings people had to follow).  If a person falls into the second category, they know what they are doing is wrong but are stubborn about it, different approaches can be tried, but the main idea would be '*gentle* reminding' like Allah (swt) asks Musa alayhis salaam to do with Fir'aun.  Usually being angry or having a 'you are such a moron' tone doesn't really work.

Example, there are particular actions mentioned in this hadeeth that should be avoided, perhaps the sister/brother who started the post could have begun by talking about the good qualities we as women should cultivate in ourselves and things we can do to better ourselves, and then brought in these texts to show what should be avoided.

Also the hadith should be put into context in order to be understood correctly.  I've heard someone liken a hadith to a snapshot -- something said or done at a specific time in a specific place, while the Sunnah is a more comprehensive, holistic understanding of what Rasulullah saw taught and His message.  So we have to put the hadith that we are discussing in that framework.  Another example is like taking a 400 page novel and randomly ripping out one page and reading it, trying to understand the novel as a whole from it.  Obviously, it won't make sense or you will come to the wrong conclusions without looking at the book as a whole.  (Note that that one page having the ability to be misinterpreted or having content we dislike does not necessarily mean that it was not part of the original novel... a pt. I am coming to insha'Allah).

The other point I want to make is on the idea that if we don't like something or understand something, does that mean that it is not authentic/valid/ part of Islam?  We are all influenced by our own experiences, personalities and limitations, and have our own unique way of viewing things and are influenced by the culture and time in which we live, so wouldn't using such an approach mean that each person would only be practicing their religion based on something which by its nature is subjective, and then taking only *selected parts* of the Quran, Sunnah and what has been established by Ijmaa? And doesn't doing so undermind their significance and validity?  Allah asks us in the Quran 'do you believe in part of the book and reject part of it?' and He asks us to enter into Islam wholeheartedly.

Also, while Allah swt tells us many times in the Quran to use our intelligence and to reflect, think, ponder, observe, etc, He also asks us 'to ask the people of dhikr [His remembrance] if we don't know'.  Saying that anyone can derive and make religious rulings, even those who are uninitiated and unqualified, opens the doors for misinterpretations, distortions, or misreadings of the texts.  (Check out the interview with Dalia Mujahid and Irshad Manji for more on this point of making ijtihaad open to the masses).  There is a fine balance that has always existed among Muslims between the ulema (those who are educated in religious law) and the people.  While the ulema are not infallible they are the key to understanding the legal texts correctly, just as you would need a lawyer to understand a country's legal code correctly and could make serious blunders if you have not taken the effort or time to study things.  Again, that doesn't mean you should shut your mind 'off' when you hear the words of a scholar, and it is always good to think and be inquisitive and learn about the wisdoms and reasonings behind ahkaam, but we should all be aware of our limitations and give deference where it is due.

I have to say as a final point that I completely disagree with the idea of the possible latent misogynism in Bukhari and Muslim.  If you look the the field of hadith criticism women played a critical role from the very beginning.  (You can check out the first volume of the multivolume encyclopedia on the Muhadithaat - women scholars of hadith by Dr. Akram Nadwi recently published in English).  So I would argue that even if it did exist it would have not been able to penetrate into the authentication process of the hadith since it was such a nuanced and carefully crafted science, and also because women played such a significant role in it! I definitely agree that a misogynistic attitude entered into the Muslim world but I would argue that it came *later* with the influence of Christianity and other cultures, and that if you look to the scholarly tradition of Islam especially in its early stages you will find many women playing a pivotal role as teachers, hadith narrators, and even deriving rulings and issuing judgments etc.

Allahu 'alam, may Allah forgive us and grant us proper understanding of His deen, 'If Allah wants good for a person He grants them tafaqquh [deep and good understanding] of His religion'

wasalaam,

7 Smiley
 bebzi's on the house to anyone who made it to the end of my long post Smiley
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« Reply #37 on: Nov 09, 2008 04:41 AM »

salaam

Quote
When the Messenger of Allah (saws) relates in truth that the inhabitants of the Hell-Fire he was shown had a majority of women as its inhabitants, it is very probable that he (saws) was warning about only a particular section and level of Hell where those who were constantly ungrateful were held.  There are many authentic narrations whereby the Messenger of Allah (saws) was shown and talks about particular sections and levels of the Hell Fire and its inhabitants…..


If this is true then it makes alot more sense.  What do you think seven?

JazakAllahu Kairon sister hajra and seven for the additional knowlege
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« Reply #38 on: Nov 10, 2008 04:51 AM »

Asalaamu Alaikum  bro


Alhamdulillah, very well summarised Sr se7en.


Quote
In both cases, the approach fails to bring about the results that you want (getting the person to respond!)


Indeed, we sometimes seem to forget in our eagerness to give dawah, that it's the end result that counts and a bit of hikma and a different approach may get you to that end result whereas the straightforward approach may fail.


Of course all this depends on the will of Allah.


Say: "O ye my servants who believe! Fear your Lord, good is (the reward) for those who do good in this world. Spacious is God's earth! those who patiently persevere will truly receive a reward without measure!" [39:10]
timbuktu
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« Reply #39 on: Nov 10, 2008 06:14 AM »

peace be upon you

I second that. I was trying to figure our how to say some of what sis se7en has written, and then I read her post, and it says that and much more and in the way of hikma.

Thanks se7en.
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