// Frightened Mcain will Win???
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blackrose
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« on: Sep 10, 2008 02:44 PM »



We're Gonna Frickin' Lose this Thing


"Stop saying that!" my wife says to me. But this is not a high school football game and I'm not a cheerleader with a bad attitude. This is an election and as things stand now, we're gonna frickin' lose this thing. Obama and McCain at best are even in the polls nationally and in a recent Gallup poll McCain is ahead by four points.

Something is not right. We have a terrific candidate and a terrific VP candidate. We're coming off the worst eight years in our country's history. Six of those eight years the Congress, White House and even the Supreme Court were controlled by the Republicans and the last two years the R's have filibustered like tantrum throwing 4-year-olds, yet we're going to elect a Republican who voted with that leadership 90% of the time and a former sportscaster who wants to teach Adam and Eve as science? That's not odd as a difference of opinion, that's logically and mathematically queer.

It reminds me of playing blackjack (a losers game). You make all the right moves, play the right hands but basically the House always wins. I know what you're going to say " But I won twelve hundred dollars last year in Atlantic City!" Of course there are victories. The odds aren't tilted crazy, but there is a 51%-49% advantage. And in the long run, the house has to win. The house will win.

So what is this house advantage the Republicans have? It's the press. There is no more fourth estate. Wait, hold on...I'm not going down some esoteric path with theories on the deregulation of the media and corporate bias and CNN versus Fox...I mean it: there is no more functioning press in this country. And without a real press the corporate and religious Republicans can lie all they want and get away with it. And that's the 51% advantage.

Think this is some opinion being wryly posited to titillate other bloggers and inspire dialogue with Tucker Carlson or Gore Vidal? Fuck that. Four corporations own all the TV channels. All of them. If they don't get ratings they get canceled or fired. All news is about sex, blame and anger, and fear. Exposing lies about amounts of money taken from lobbyists and votes cast for the agenda of the last eight years does not rate. The end.

So one side can lie and get away with it. Now let's throw in one more advantage. Voter caging and other corruption on the local level with voting. Check out the article here on HuffPost about Ohio messing with 600K voters. If only five thousand of those voters don't or can't vote that's a huge advantage in a contest that could be decided by literally dozens of votes. That takes us to about a 52 to 48% advantage.


I'm not even getting into the fact that the religious right teaches closed mindedness so it's almost impossible to gain new voters from their pool because people who disagree with them are agents of the devil. I just want to look at two inarguable realities: A) we have no more press and B) the Repubs are screwing with the voters on the local level.

I'm telling you, we're going to lose this thing. And afterwords we'll blame ourselves the same way we did with Gore and Kerry (two candidates a thousand times more qualified to lead than W Bush.) Just watch.. McCain wins by a point or two and we all walk around saying things like "Obama was too well spoken." "Biden wasn't lovable enough." "I shouldn't have split those eights." "Why did I hit on 16? Why?!"

So what do we do?

1) We give definitive clear speeches like Biden and Obama gave the other day about how no one talked about any issues at the Republican Convention and how they outright lied. But we do them over and over again. 2) We use the one place where it's still a 50-50 game -- the internet -- as much as we can. 3) But most importantly we should bring up re-regulating the media and who owns it and what that conflict of interest is a lot more. By pretending there's no conflict of interest we're failing to alert the public that they're being lied to or given a looking at a coin at the bottom of a pool slanted truth. Every time a pundit or elected official is on any TV news program it should be a polite formality to mention that GE has made such and such billions off the war in Iraq by selling arms or that Murdoch is a right-wing activist with a clear stake in who wins and who taxes his profits the least. Disney, GE, Viacom, and Murdoch -- all want profits and the candidate and agenda that will get in their way the least.

Obama and Biden should also create a "master sound bite sentence" and repeat it hundreds of times. It should be so true that even the corporations can't screw with it when it makes the airwaves. Here's my attempt: "Katrina, four dollar gas, a trillion dollar war, rising unemployment, deregulated housing market, global warming...no more."

This race should be about whether the Republican Party is going to be dismantled or not after the borderline treason of the past eight years. But instead it is about making the word "community organizer" a dirty word and a beauty queen who shoots foxes from a plane. Someone is not in any way doing their job and it's the press. Or more specifically, that job no longer exists.

Probably the worst offenders are the pundits who take the position that it's all just a game and say phrases like "getting a post-convention bump" or "playing to the soccer Moms." This isn't a game of Monopoly or Survivor. There are real truths that exist outside of the spin they are given and have an effect on lives. 250,000 Iraqi civilians are dead because we let our reality be distorted by the most effective propaganda machine in fifty years, the corporate American press. Money and jobs are flying out of this country as our currency becomes worthless and we're talking about the fact that McCain is a veteran. If someone busted into your house and robbed you would you then forgive them if you found out they were a veteran? Of course not. So why are we forgiving McCain for selling out his country by supporting the Bush agenda?

This is it folks. If McCain takes power we fade and become Australia in the seventies: a backwoods country with occasional flashes of relevance. Except we've got a way bigger military and we're angrier. People will get hurt and we'll pay the bill for the bullets. I'm telling you, unless we wake up, we're gonna lose this frickin' thing.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-mckay/were-gonna-frickin-lose-t_b_124772.html
lucid
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« Reply #1 on: Sep 11, 2008 11:06 AM »



Why do pious muslims swear so much?  I know "frickin" is not the same thing as "fuc&*g."  But it is a substitute, a cheap and a crude one at that.   How one speaks reflects how they think, and if their words are aromized filth, then so are their thoughts.  And finally, we all know the hadith where the prophet cried "may your mother be bereaved of you muadh! is there anything which topples peoples on their faces into hellfire than the harvests of their tongues?"  And finally, finally, we all know the hadith "whoever believes in Allah and the last day, let him say good things or keep quiet..."

I am sorry this criticism seems aimed at blackrose; it isn't.  Its a general (pointless) complaint of mine against the vast majority of muslims.

Finally, Obama has already lost...just accept it.  Its another 4 years of McPain, and then another 8 years of shotgun wielding Palin. Imagine: America is in love with a woman who wants to ban books, has fun shooting animals from a helicopter, believes she is on a personal mission from God, attended something like 6 colleges before graduating, and regularly attended a church where they speak in tongues and has rigid enough religious views that make even the Taliban look not so bad, and evn calls herself a pitbull  Shocked when trying to compliment herself.

To top it off, and perhaps this is why the republicans love her, she is a beauty pageant queen; the ultimate ditz, twirling her baton, or playing her flute to show off her SPECIAL!!! talent.   No wonder the republicans claim the democrats are elitist ond overly sophisticated.  Compared to the "bottom 5% of the class McCain" and "6 Uni Palin," almost anybody in America is smarter/more clever and more sophisticated than them.



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« Reply #2 on: Sep 11, 2008 07:33 PM »

salaam

I think the person who wrote it is NONMUSLIM!
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« Reply #3 on: Sep 11, 2008 07:58 PM »

 



Over the last couple of days I've received more calls and emails than I can count from people with fear in their voices. They want to know what to make of McCain's post- convention bounce in the polls. They want to know if Obama can still win. Most of all they want to know what they can do to help.

McCain's post-convention bounce resulted from two factors:

First, was three days of the Republican Convention, during which large numbers of viewers watched Republicans and fellow travelers like Joe Lieberman repeatedly deliver a carefully crafted message. They blasted Obama. They postured about change. Their kids looked adorable. Subject anyone to largely one-sided messaging for a week and some will be convinced. Some of that will stick; much will disappear as memories of that experience fades.

Second - and more importantly - McCain's pick of Sarah Palin moved a lot of white women. The Washington Post poll released today showed white women shifting from an eight-point pre-convention lead for Obama to a 12-point McCain advantage.

What does this mean for the outcome of the race?

The race today is about even, with McCain having a slight advantage in the popular vote, and Obama having an advantage in electoral votes. The effect of exposure to the convention itself will likely diminish over the next several weeks. In 2004, Bush moved to a nine-point lead after his convention and most of that gap disappeared within a few weeks.


The long-term effect of the Palin factor is less certain. Much depends on what all of us choose to do now.

There are about ten likely electoral vote scenarios that could develop in this race. In eight of them, Obama is the winner. The underlying desire for change, and the overall disgust with the Bush-Republican administration of the last eight years, is just as real as ever. The website www.Fivethirtyeight.com employs a sophisticated projection model to predict electoral outcomes, and it still gives 61.2% odds that Obama will win in November.

But this week's polling numbers have certainly given a wakeup call to lots of Progressives who might have become complacent in their views that Obama's victory was a lock.

What did we think - that the gang who has run this country for the last eight years would simply roll over and surrender without a fight? These guys are very good at running elections and they will bite and claw and gouge eyes to win.

Luckily, we don't have to just sit by and watch from the sidelines, and hope that someone else makes the right call or runs the right TV spots.

There are three steps that every one of us can take that will actually impact directly the ultimate outcome of this race.

1). Remember that you are Obama's best campaign commercial. Obama made a good deal of progress at his own convention in convincing swing voters he is not just an agent for change, but a "safe" choice. But there are still a lot of voters who worry about Obama. They aren't really too worried if he is "experienced" enough (though they may say so). The movement of white women to Sarah Palin should put an end to any thought that "experience" is the main issue. They are worried if he will "safely be on their side."

The message that is most persuasive at convincing someone that Obama is "safely on their side" is having someone who is like them talk to them about why they support Obama - and why they are against McCain-Palin. "If Mary or Sarah likes Obama I guess he must be OK."

If you want to help win this election, it means you might have to break the "taboo's" about not talking about politics with your neighbor or your co-worker. It means you have to bring up the campaign over the lunch table or the backyard fence. It means you can't just go along when someone says something like "Palin is such a breath of fresh air." No, you must tell them, actually she's never been for "reform" and she embraces all of the economic policies that allow big companies to make tons of money while incomes of people like us fall.

Want to make calls to swing voters like you in swing states? The Obama campaign can hook you up with lists to call and get a report from you on the outcome through their website, www.MyBarackObama.com. And don't feel like the conversations you have are just a drop in the bucket. There will be hundreds of thousands of other volunteers around America who will be doing the same thing.

2). Don't unwittingly contribute to their narrative. Most swing voters aren't excessively focused on "experience." They think the gang with lots of experience has done a pretty crummy job, at least for them. They want someone who is "on their side." One reason that many white women like and identify with Palin - at least at first blush - is because they think she identifies with them.

When Progressives make "elitist" attacks on Palin, they just reinforce the right wing narrative that the "Elitist Eastern Establishment" is the problem. Don't patronize the very people we are trying to convince.

From most people's points of view, the problem with the McCain-Palin ticket isn't so much that Palin is from a small town in rural Alaska and hasn't got the experience to run the country. The arguement that is convincing to normal people is that neither McCain nor Palin are what they claim to be - reformers or agents of change. Their campaign is being run by lobbyists for the biggest corporate interests in America--the same people who ran the Bush campaign. And they are committed to the economic policies that make average people's incomes drop and reward the very rich.

McCain and Palin act as though they identify with the interests of the guys in the NASCAR grandstand and the women at the PTA - but they are doing the bidding of the guys from Wall Street and the women wearing $4,500 outfits like the one Cindy McCain donned for the Republican Convention.

Our assault on McCain and Palin must never be done from an elitist perspective, but from a populist perspective.

3). Take personal responsibility to win this election. More than any election in modern political history, this election will be decided by the work of millions of people who talk to their neighbors, make small donations on the internet and - most importantly - demand that every voter go out to vote.

And I mean demand that every voter go to the polls. To win, we need to change the electorate. In this election, friends don't let friends not vote. There is too much at stake. The damage of another four years of Bush-McCain economic and foreign policy would be catastrophic for the future of our children, and children all over the world.

The key point is this: don't just whine to your friends about what the campaign should do, or the party should do, or the candidate should do. Take personal responsibility to do the two things that will win: persuade swing voters, and mobilize voters who won't vote unless they are motivated to do so.

The Obama campaign has the best field operation in the history of presidential politics. Join it. Take an assignment. Make contributions on the Internet. Hold a fundraiser. Write a letter to the editor. Most important: don't sit on the sidelines.

The recent polls should provide a call to arms to everyone who wants change in America or believes in progressive values.

Don't think what you do is inconsequential or can't affect the outcome. My firm, the Strategic Consulting Group, ran the field operation for a wonderful congressional candidate in south Florida in 2000. We did a great job. We knocked on every door. We pulled out lots of votes. But we lost by 550 votes. It was the same 550 votes that beat Al Gore and gave us George Bush.

If we had just dragged out one more Democrat per precinct in the closing hours of that Election Day, America would have been spared the nightmare of the last eight years. Each of us could decide the outcome of this election, too.

In 2008, Progressives in America are presented with an unprecedented opportunity to fundamentally change the direction of American politics. As I argued in my book, Stand Up Straight: How Progressives Can Win, we could be on the verge of a new progressive era in America. If we win, progressives will be able to take the offensive and reshape the political and economic structures of our society for the first time in four decades. We can come out of our defensive crouch and help shape a democratic society infused with progressive values, with the fundamental principle that "we're all in this together" not "all in this alone."

But to have that opportunity we have to win - and winning requires that we all stand up now and take the future into our own hands. The game is on. Get out of the stands and onto the field, into the arena. The work we do over the next 56 days could be the most important that any of us will do in our lives. Let's not miss this precious opportunity to make history.

Robert Creamer is a long-time political organizer and strategist, and author of the recent book Stand Up Straight: How Progressives Can Win, available on Amazon.com.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-creamer/frightened-by-mccains-pos_b_125111.html
blackrose
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« Reply #4 on: Sep 11, 2008 08:00 PM »

salaam

Anyhow 'chill' the point is that its not a curse word!

Anhow you repeating what the man is saying. lol don t say that!
still have some hope, YOU can make a difference!

check out  the other article I postd here:

http://jannah.org/madina/index.php?topic=1405.msg6831;topicseen#new
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« Reply #5 on: Sep 12, 2008 12:41 AM »

sorry,

i am an idiot.  but everyone already knew that...  Smiley
cheese
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« Reply #6 on: Sep 12, 2008 06:27 AM »

Frankly I couldn’t careless who wins. They are both Kaffir who love Israel more than they love their Mothers.
They clear state their love for Zionism at each and every opportunity. No one other than a Zionist would be allowed to take part in the electoral process.
Why chose who kills your brothers?
That’s the choice, do you want Obama to send soldiers to kill your brothers and rape your sisters or the other guy.
I couldn’t care less; who ever wins will be an enemy to Islam Muslims.
Are you all too young to remember what happened just before Bush was elected?
Who did Muslims support?
What did they say would happen if Bush wan?

Listen, Democracy is a farce, a lie, it is the opium of the masses, it if worked it would be illegal and you are just electing a front man, a poster boy for Dejal. You are choosing between two people who are equal in everyway other than the colour of their skin.
All you can gain from an electoral victory of your chosen candidate is a few pleasing slogans, and that is all that is on offer.
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 12, 2008 03:14 PM »

salaam

no they are not equal in every way. 'love israel more than their mothers' that is not for you to say. you have no idea what is in their hearts in minds. if you really care about islam so much than fear Allah swt and quit assuming how everyone thinks because only God has a right to do that.

I remember hamza yusuf in a speech said the reason muslims won over so many people is when they gave dawah they assumed the nonmuslim was better than him. we dont know where Allah swt ranks us. A nonmuslim could be better  than us in the eyes of Allah swt
cheese
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« Reply #8 on: Sep 12, 2008 06:39 PM »

Today is Jummah, please read the ten verses of Surah al-kalf.
cheese
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« Reply #9 on: Sep 19, 2008 03:28 PM »

Sorry your quote doesn’t mean much to me because I follow Hazrat Mohammad (Sal-Allaho-Alay-hay-wasallam) instead of Hamza Yusuf.

Did our Prophet Sal-Allaho-Alay-hay-wasallam consider the Idol worshipers as being better than himself?
If he did I will consider idol worshipers as better than me. How about the Sahaba? Did they consider the Quraysh were better than them during the persecution in Makkah?
That last thing you wrote makes absolutely no sense. If you think someone is better than you, you follow them and become like them. If you think you are better, you ask others to follow your example.
People convert to Islam because they believe Islam is better than kufr. No one, absolutely no one converts to Islam because they believe Muslims believe Kaffirs are better than believers.

Non-Muslims are only better than believers if they become believers. Muslims are only worse than Kaffir, if they lose their Iman. But if that was the case the non Muslim would be a Muslim and the man who was once a Muslim would be a disbeliever. So it is still a case of believers being better than disbelievers.
I used to be a follower of Hamza Yusuf. I still have a lot of his tapes and books. I bought them before September 11th. When he changed I was about to destroy them, but then I thought I still believe in what he previously believed in. And the fact that he changed didn’t mean his previous books and tapes have changed, so I still have them as they are still very good books and tapes, even if he doesn’t think so any more.

Even if your quote made sense it would still be irrelevant. This thread is about electing one of the two Zionist kaffirs as leader, not about asking the two disbelievers to convert to Islam.
I don’t have a problem with asking them to convert to Islam. Go ahead do it. I really hope they convert to Islam. Tell them to believe in Allah’s unity instead of the trinity. Tell them after they convert they should rule by the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of his Prophet Sal-Allaho-Alay-hay-wasallam. That’s dawa. But putting a little cross or crucifix next to their names isn’t dawa. It is choosing a leader. And the leader Muslims are meant to choose is a Khalif, but unfortunately too many Muslims are too busy choosing presidents to choose a Khalif. So this world is full of presidents while it hasn’t had a single Khalif for a very long time.

“you have no idea what is in their hearts in minds.”
No, but I do have an idea about what comes out of their mouths. They have stated their love of Zionism and Israel over and over again. But that doesn’t seem to be enough for you. Should I assume they are lying every time they state how much they love Israel, how much they support Israel and how much Muslims they will gladly kill for the benefit of Israel.
What more do you want?

It is Jummah again, please read Surah Kalf.


(Note to the moderator, I didn’t attack Hamza Yusuf, I just stated I believe in what he used to believe, and I don’t believe in what he currently believes, in relation to Dejjal and who controls America)
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« Reply #10 on: Sep 19, 2008 04:24 PM »

Quote
Note to the moderator, I didn’t attack Hamza Yusuf, I just stated I believe in what he used to believe, and I don’t believe in what he currently believes, in relation to Dejjal and who controls America)
you did to attack him by accusing him of changing his 'beliefs' after 9/11 which he absolutely did not!
He is a sheikh mind you! Who knows a lot more than you do so becareful in what you say!
And you are completely out of subject, I said they are not both 'equal' in evil and you have no right to say that bc only God knows that.
At the moment a promcain group is passing out hate videos so I would encourage all to vote for Obama and if mcain becomes pres then none can complain
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 19, 2008 05:41 PM »

cheese,

you are a CIA stooge trying to bait muslims.  i used to think you were someone real.  but you know too much about current events.

your only job on this board is to bait muslims.  you know quite well nobody agrees with you here so there is no point for you to be here.  but still you're always going on and on...

and oh...you said the problem was that people don't follow the sunnah....well the problem is that people really don't know what the sunnah is.  Baiters like you want to argue that the sunnah is being

1) being mean and nasty
2) marrying N wives, where N is large
3) harrasing nonmuslims and abusing them, and perhaps even blowing them up because you think they are worthless...

but god-fearing muslims know that it is exactly the opposite

why don't you just leave us alone or just go out with your CIA minders or salafi and al muhijiroon imposters and get plastered and stoned like they do all the time.  maybe it will at least take away the edge of your aggression..

cheese
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« Reply #12 on: Sep 20, 2008 12:13 AM »

blackrose
“he absolutely did not!”
Next time you see Hamza Yusuf ask him.

“He is a sheikh mind you!”
So is Imam Aly Hindy, did you realise that fact when you were posting on the “lets bash Imam Aly Hindy thread”?

“promcain group is passing out hate videos”
I’m more concerned about the bombs both candidates have promised to handout to the believers.

lucid
This “you are a CIA stooge” plus this “why don't you just leave us alone” means you should agree with what I said here:
http://jannah.org/madina/index.php?topic=1457.0
100% and pray for the financial collapse of America.
If you are correct and I work for the CIA, if America collapses they won’t have any money to pay me to “always going on and on” so I will “just leave us alone”.

“Baiters like you want to argue that the sunnah is being”
“1) being mean and nasty”

Are you sure about that, read what you wrote, have a good read, and then think about it.

“2) marrying N wives, where N is large”
How many wives did our Prophet pbh have?
This is something Christian missionaries say to Muslims, and Muslim reply “how many wives did the Prophets in the bible have?”
I never thought I’d have to use that on a Muslim?

“3) harrasing nonmuslims and abusing them, and perhaps even blowing them up because you think they are worthless”

Which non-Muslims are you talking about?
This thread is about two people who want to be elected to the leadership of a country that is currently slaughtering Muslims on a scale that hasn’t been seen since the Mongol invasion of Baghdad. Both have promised to continue this slaughter, both have indicated that they want to expand this slaughter in to Iran, Pakistan and maybe many other nations. So other then a few pleasing slogans from one, and a few irritating quotes from the other one there is no difference.
And if you call that “harrasing nonmuslims and abusing them”, then I call everyone to “harrasing nonmuslims and abusing them”, but when it comes to blowing people up, the two candidates are the ones who have promised to do that, not me.
But that doesn’t seem to be significant to you, as you have said:

the main problem of muslims is not that they are bombed are being killed”

“salafi and al muhijiroon imposters and get plastered and stoned like they do all the time.”

Please enlighten me, which Salafi books state that it is Hallal to drink and take drugs? How many people who call themselves Salafi and how many members of muhajiroon have you seen drunk or on drugs?
I have my own differences with those two Jamats, but I love them as they are Muslims. It amazes me that my post on Qadyanis was edited because of the rule on insulting groups, but this post against two Muslim groups is completely within the constitution.
I attack Kaffir who slaughter Muslims harshly, while correct Muslims groups I disagree with genially. So many people here do things the other way around using the excuses of dawa. To them I say, don’t insult dawa with this lie.
Nothing is worse for Dawa than siding with Kaffar against believers.
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« Reply #13 on: Sep 20, 2008 01:28 AM »


Nothing is worse for Dawa than siding with Kaffar against believers.


i think this summarizes exactly who you are and what you espouse -- a bigot, and a bigotted worldview.

muslims and nonmuslims were both created by the same God, they both belong to the same God, and as such you cannot abuse any of God's creation without strong consequences.

if you really appreciated islam as a gift, and not something taken for granted, you really would not have this jaundiced false sense of superiority.  real dawa is love for all of Allah's creation and kind encouragement to accept Allah and his messengers.  your dawa is cursing those not endowed with the gift that you have been given and and treating them like garbage.  And you have no right to do that.

cheese
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« Reply #14 on: Sep 20, 2008 05:10 AM »

005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
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« Reply #15 on: Sep 20, 2008 05:57 PM »

Quote
o is Imam Aly Hindy, did you realise that fact when you were posting on the “lets bash Imam Aly Hindy thread”?
Yes I realize he is an Imam and I was posting on the thread but I DID NOT bash him so WHAT IS YOUR POINT?Huh??

Jannah has been extremely lenient with you because I know you have broken the rules way too many times, I know she was not THIS lenient before!

Quote
Next time you see Hamza Yusuf ask him.

I do not need to ask him, I have listened to his speeches. You have STILL NOT apologised for accusing a sheikh of changing and saying somethning bout djal. You are the one who continues to do so much unislamic stuff but then preaches everyone else on board. What you need to do is learn what Islam REALLY IS ABOUT. lUCID IS RIGHT YOU HAVE A WRONG VIEW OF SUNNAH. Why dont you take a break and go overseas and study Islam. Then you can come bak andpreach to us
It is because people like you who pick out a verse and use it is why now everyone has to go to a scholar to interpret itand find out the context. although i think if you read the whole qur'an translation with an open mind you would not have to but bc of people like you is why now everyone has to say go to a scholar to understand. when you pick and choose a verse you are no better than the islamophobics
cheese
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« Reply #16 on: Sep 22, 2008 12:40 AM »


“Jannah has been extremely lenient”

She probably remembers interviews just after September 11th when he was questioned about those statements he made prier and he distanced himself from them.

“You have STILL NOT apologised for accusing a sheikh of changing and saying somethning bout djal.”

That is because:
1   I stick by them. From his books I used to read, his speeches I used to listen to, in person and on tape: that is what I believe. And believing such a thing is in no way an insult.
2   Stating that someone has changed his views on a particular subject is in no way an insult.
3   Disagreeing with someone is no way an insult.
4   Not following someone is in no way an insult.
5   To stop following someone is in no way an insult.
6   Accusing someone of changing his views is in no way an insult.
7   There is nothing wrong in changing views.

I really can’t comprehend why that statement is of such relevance to you. If low and behold, the unthinkable was true and Hamza Yusuf has changed his views, what difference would it make? Would you stop following him if his current view wasn’t his first view on a particular subject? Would I stop disagreeing with his current view if somehow you proved to me that the TV interviews I saw were somehow forgeries and he has always held his current views on each and every subject?
If that was the case, at best all it would achieve is making me regret being one of his followers before September 11th.

005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

That verse has been quoted many times by some of the world’s biggest scholars.
If you have another meaning for that verse, please enlighten me.
blackrose
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« Reply #17 on: Sep 22, 2008 03:23 AM »

the point is that you have been accusing someone of something which is NOT TRUE.

i dont understand why my post got locked instead of you being banned for spewing the hate. I think that post was something that needed to be discussed.
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« Reply #18 on: Sep 22, 2008 05:18 AM »

assalaam alaikum,

when one person has given their opinion and the other has given their opinion there is nowhere else to go.

it is ramadan and it's the last ten nights. let's take this time to reflect and connect with Allah instead of fighting with each other.

jazakallahukhairan
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« Reply #19 on: Sep 22, 2008 05:42 AM »

Asalaamu Alaikum  bro

Quote
it is ramadan and it's the last ten nights. let's take this time to reflect and connect with Allah instead of fighting with each other.

You took the words right away from me, I was going so say exactly the same thing.


Just a note on the verse of Surah Al Ma'idah which was quoted.


I would recommend anyone to really investigate what this verse actually means, especially in respect of what the definition of 'friend' is in this verse and its applicablility.


This is particularly important if you live in a non Muslim country.


Wasalaam
Br Khalid







Say: "O ye my servants who believe! Fear your Lord, good is (the reward) for those who do good in this world. Spacious is God's earth! those who patiently persevere will truly receive a reward without measure!" [39:10]
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