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couchrose
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« on: Oct 18, 2008 04:15 PM »


Salam,
    I frequent a pregnancy message board, because I'm expecting my first baby in March (insha Allah  Kiss).  One of the latest on going discussions stems from racism, some one posted a picture, about Finding Terrorists in the Airport.  Basically it was a picture of a camel in the parking lot.  I understand this isn't politically correct, and I also understand how one could take offense to it.
    However I felt that the picture was more political than racist, I fly infrequently (maybe 1-2 times/year) and I do find myself/my family singled out in airports and subject to extra security (we're Indian, but my mother and I practice hijab).  I interpreted the camel to be a caricature of how security is conducted in airports with personnel sometimes using superfical things to find the "terroists" (name, looks, dress). 
   This picture generated a huge discussion on the forum about how people who thought it was funny must be racist, I thought I would post it here and see what people felt... is this Racist or Political?

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« Reply #1 on: Oct 19, 2008 01:25 AM »

Salaam

I guess I'm among the first to comment on this.  First I question what or rather why someone posted this on a board about pregnancy when it has nothing to do with the subject.  Second it is in poor taste but does reflect the moronic reasons that are used to target individuals for "random" stops at airports.  It certainly reflects the continued ignorance that abounds that suggest that it is only Arabs who are the "terrorists" and that they are so backward that they still exclusively ride camels; so on that I laugh at their idiocy.  I'm sure however the not so random stops will cease once all Israelis are stopped as well since it is forgotten that the term Middle Eastern applies to them as well.

You wonder if the picture is racist or just political; to me it's both bigotted and political but these days it is "acceptable" to be openly bigotted in words and actions as long as the targets are Arabs or Muslims first and all others second.

As you said you are subject to stops because of your head covering so one can only conclude that there is nothing random about them.

Fa'izah

cheese
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« Reply #2 on: Oct 19, 2008 10:15 AM »

There is a way to see if it is just humour, politics or racism.
What you do is replace Arab/Muslim with another nationality/religion if it is offensive and racist that means what was written about Muslims/Arabs is offensive and racist.

Ok I’ll edit the joke and let’s see if it is offensive?






[Edited by Admin: Please do not disparage other religious groups.]
Faizah
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« Reply #3 on: Oct 19, 2008 02:40 PM »

Cheese you might have had me with your logic of substituting another group however your offered substitution wasn't funny; if anything it left me saying "Uh....... what?"  Might I make a suggestion; don't quit your day job because comedy/humor is not in your future.

What is offensive to one group is not necessarily understood by others.    Case in point a friend of my daughter's works for an insurance company and so they are out in the field a lot.  Well they were going to one house and my daughter's friend refused to go into the house because there was a Confederate flag prominently displayed.  As such the other member of the team decided to go to the house instead because he didn't understand what the problem was.  That team member was/is Jewish and let's just say the residents of the house weren't exactly hospitable.

The company execs didn't quite get it either so she (my daughter's friend) had to explain it to them.  As soon as she said "would you go into a house where a swaztika was on display?"  everybody understood what the issue was.  So whenever making a substitution it has to be relevant in order to understand the offensive nature of the original issue and your attempt didn't quite make it.  I'm trying to get the address of that particular house because some action needs to be taken.  I don't care if the residents display that flag inside of their home but outside is not a good thing.  It reflects poorly on the community and serves only to incite hatred and bigotry as well as fear and possibly violence.

I rememer getting someone into a lot of trouble - if not fired - immediately after 9/11 when Bush made his comment about "Dead or Alive" and all the newspapers had one of those "Old West-style photos".  Someone put it up and I simply said "I find that offensive" and walked away.  Well it started a snowball effect and if the person that had it up hadn't then tried to confront and threaten me while I was working alone in my office he might have avoided additional problems (of course how stupid was he anyway - he knew I worked in Affirmative Action and it's my job to do environmental scans for offensive material of any kind and I have the authority to remove such if I so choose - like oh man!  a Muslimah with authority..... now that's scary!).  Now many found that picture to be humorous but I didn't and all it takes is one person to be offended for something to be deemed offensive.   

Fa'izah

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« Reply #4 on: Oct 19, 2008 10:59 PM »

One of the things I found funny about this picture is how absurd it is.  I don't think very many "terrorists" are adept at riding camels, I think its ridiculous to accuse someone of being a terrorist on that basis.  It's one of the many reasons I thought the picture was more political.  I felt like the picture was drawing to light how ridiculous it is to accuse people of being terrorists on appearence. 

Again I refer to my experience in airports.  Sometimes I see people giving my family dirty looks when we are travelling, and I wonder why.  How often do terrorists travel with their families? I really think that if people took the time to understand this picture or others like it they'd realize how crazy they are being.  Afterall,  people like Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kazcynski would not fit this stereotype, but we all know how much damage people like them are capable of causing.

So I pose another question, Do you think this picture (or one similar) perpetuates the problem of Muslims being targeted at airports?
cheese
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« Reply #5 on: Oct 20, 2008 12:34 AM »

“your offered substitution wasn't funny; if anything it left me saying "Uh....... what?"

That was the point.
It is only funny when Muslims are the target, anyone else is a "Uh....... what?".
The same applies to any other excuse they use. Free speech for example, they only use it as an excuse to attack Muslims and Islam. If anyone else is attacked, then the attack is labelled hate speech and people are arrested.

I made that joke up by substitution in that joke picture that was placed here. Replace Muslim/Arab with Jew. Replace terrorist with paedophile and replace backwardness with usury, and my joke is created.
But it isn’t funny is it?
It isn’t politics is it?
It isn’t free speech is it? People who said such a joke would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law in most western (Jew controlled) countries.

If the poster wants to see hypocrisy in action, place a similar joke about Jews on that same website and see what happens?
Do the people who defend attacks on us defend what you place?
Free speech just means, people have the right to say what ever the owners of the government allow them to say. And the owners of the government allow people to attack us, and don’t allow people to attack the Jews. The owners are Jewish. Dejjal is a one eyed Jew. And George Bush as well as both his possible replacements are Zionist Christians who admittedly serve Dejjal anyway they can because they believe the quicker Dejjal rules the Earth the quicker Jesus the Son of Mary will arrive.

couchrose
What you have to understand is humour and racism have always been used in politics to pass a message. Examples of this can be found in Court jesters. They were often used to attack powerful figures including the king himself, and action wasn’t taken against the jester because the king would want to show he had a sense of humour.
Today racism is a no go area, so people spread racism while claiming they are doing something else such as joking.
There are two messages in the picture. One is the joke, the second is the political message. The joke is haha Arabs are primitive they ride camels. The political message is Arabs/Muslims are terrorists; the way you spot terrorists is spotting Arabs and Muslims. Harass Arabs and Muslims, you harass terrorists, exterminate all Arabs and Muslims then you exterminate all Terrorists.

After Communism took hold in Russia it was feared that it will take control over the rest of Europe maybe the world starting with Germany.
Here is a Joke from that period:
http://www.danwymanbooks.com/Ewige1.jpg
Do you see the similarity?
rahma
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« Reply #6 on: Oct 20, 2008 02:12 AM »

Ah...

Sorry.  Maybe I'm just warped or something, but I just thought it was funny..
I just can't get upset at things like this anymore.  Maybe at one point I could, but now it's just gone over the line into absurd...

I don't travel much, but the last time I was in an airport (flying within the US), I didn't notice any hostilities.  Of course, I might just be clueless...  I just walk along with a smile on my face and smile at people and they seem to be friendly and smile back.  I guess if someone was hostile towards me, I'd just smile at them and move on and not give it another thought.  Life is too short and too precious to waste time on ignorant people.

cheese
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« Reply #7 on: Oct 20, 2008 02:42 AM »

Rahma
That is actually the reason behind it. If you say a lie enough times people will start seeing it as the truth.
So they kill a whole bunch of us, and say Muslims are terrorists. They kill more of us, and say Muslims are terrorists twice. They continue doing so, and keep repeating until people start ignoring the facts and start following the slogans.
Because racism against Muslims/Arabs is acceptable, the joke is seen as funny, because the political message is seen as an undeniable fact.


Arabs/Muslims are terrorists. You identify terrorists by identifying Arabs/Muslims.
(This bit is the political message, and needs to be seen as a fact for the joke to make sense)

How do you identify Arabs/Muslims? They ride Camels.
(This bit is the joke)

Why is this an attack on Arabs/Muslims and not on terrorism? Are they implying the IRA, Tamel Tigers or Jewish defence league of ride camels?
No.
They state that Arabs ride camels instead of cars which is a racist joke, which may or may not be funny.
But together with terrorism and identification, it has a nasty political message. It is calling for our extermination. And this is what is happening. A million dead in Iraq and no one notices. How many more before people start noticing?


What I am about to list below aren’t lies, they aren’t jokes but facts:

Well here is a load more:

And there are countless more examples, to many to list.

But even though this is known as fact, saying a joke implying they behave like this is racist and tasteless, why?
I didn’t expect anyone to find that joke I made by rewarding the joke in the Photo. I expected you to understand we have been brainwashed not to recognise hate being propagated against ourselves while recognising hate being propagated against our enemies.
We have been brainwashed in to accepting all the racism against us but rejecting racism against our enemies.
It is time to free our minds from this Zionist programming and start thinking for ourselves.
jannah
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« Reply #8 on: Oct 20, 2008 05:12 AM »

It's racist, islamophobic and offensive. The spin you have on it (extremely positive and optimistic) is not the message it is making to the people. The message it is sending is that terrorists/mozlims/middle easterners (all synonymous btw) are backwards/ignorant/idiots/not intelligent enough to get a car or hide/ and/or ride camels.  If I were you I would report it to the admins of the pregnancy forum and tell them it's offensive and ask them to delete it.
timbuktu
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« Reply #9 on: Oct 20, 2008 05:14 AM »

AoA

I think the picture is funny.

I think we take offense far too easily.

One very effective way to counter bigotry is to laugh with the person making a joke at your expense. It works. Every group has been a target of ridicule and stereotyping, but most have got around it by joining in the fun.

Of course, some things are not acceptable, like making fun of the Almighty or any of the Prophets (as).

The Irish drink a lot and are Roman Catholics, the Jews are supposedly miserly, the Sikhs go bonkers precisely at noon, the British aren't all that clever or hard-working, they just muddle through, etc. etc.

All these groups have overcome the stereotyping by joining in making fun. The Sikhs tell the best Sardarji jokes. There was an Irish comedian David something whose show was hilarious.

On one board Muslims and Islam were being bashed about. Sister Fozia couldn't stand it and left the board awhile. I went in, and after a feel, I posted this:

We are the Borg!

The West asks: Why were there protests and boycotts and burning of Embassies and threats over things so innocuous as cartoons. Surely cartoons are for laughing. Don’t Muslims have a sense of humor?

There is an answer that will satisfy the religious, another that will satisfy those who think in terms of politics, yet another other that involves a clash of civilizations, and then there is the truth. I weighed it very carefully, because as some of my readers may have discovered I do a lot of self-censoring, and by the look of things, the West at least does not want talk that is restrained. It is more comfortable with free speech.

OK then, I will take the plunge and tell you the truth about us Muslims; it will be free from self-censor.

There is a big secret about us that is known only to a few, but perhaps some of the truth has got out, hence this constant hammering of the violent minority although an overwhelming majority of Muslims have condemned the slogans calling for death or holocaust.

Research on Islam has been going on for a very long time - centuries. Some of this has resulted in good, and some of this has exposed such dark secrets about us that these secrets have to be kept under wraps.

The CIA thought it knew all about us, but then something happened, and the CIA had to commission this research. Some time ago in the last century it happened so that the Shah of Iran fell, and Iran became an Islamic Republic, and gave up all the goodies and the civilized behaviour like nudity and nightclubs and wine and gambling (all things that enhance the GDP and make one civilized), that it had learnt from the West, and the women went back to wearing the oppressive veil (or at least the hijab) and the like; and horror of horrors, they even voted in the dreaded backward Shariah (the Shia version).

The Director of CIA was grilled on German TV about not being able to foresee it even while the CIA for Asia was centered in Tehran. He said in his defence something to the effect that "we thought we understood the Muslims, but obviously they (the Muslims) have some trait that is unpredictable."

The CIA then set about to remove this unpredictability by commissioning the research. That research yielded what I am going to tell you:

You see we Muslims are violent.

No big deal here as any sensible non-Muslim has seen by now, because although all the Muslims here have condemned the slogans, they haven't condemned the protest over the questioning of "free speech" about the prophet (Peace Be Upon Him). Hence we Muslims must, by definition, be violent.

However, the CIA research goes further, and tells you why:

We Muslims have a "terrorism" gene, and a "terrorism" meme.

If we are born Muslim, we are violent by virtue of this gene, and if we are converts, then alas the meme thing comes into play, because just saying the shahada puts the meme in there.

There really is no hope for us, but as we multiply faster than rabbits and we are immigrating into other cultures, we will take over the world.

At one time Europe understood us better, and the truth about us is told in the frightening stories of yore. The Inquisition understood us best.

We are the Borg; be warned that the world's inhabitants are being Borged.

That’s the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
cheese
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« Reply #10 on: Oct 20, 2008 08:34 AM »

timbuktu
Did you find the one I made up funny?




[Edited by Admin: Please do not disparage other religious groups.]
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« Reply #11 on: Oct 20, 2008 12:17 PM »

assalamu alaikum,
I think these jokes are just overly offensive, and there's absolutely no point to them. I feel ashamed to see them on our board.
cheese
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« Reply #12 on: Oct 20, 2008 12:45 PM »

That was the point I was making.

Take the jokes they say about us.
The ones they say are not racist, are funny, aren’t offensive. Replace Muslim with Jew, and see if they still agree?
Do they still think Muslims are too sensitive, when the same Jokes is said about Jews?
Do they still believe in free speech, when someone other then Muslims is being attacked?

If not, why not.
That is the question I’m trying to get you lot to think about.
Why do people find the joke on that picture funny when it is applied to Muslims, overtly offensive when applied to anyone else especially Jews
Why?
Can anyone answer?
Does anyone want to answer?
I think this goes beyond the joke. It is to do with how every one has been conditioned to implicitly believe in an international caste system with Jews at the top, Muslims at the bottom and every other race/religion in between dependent on level of Zionism, wealth and skin colour.
This caste system states, attacks on Jews is always hate speech, attacks on Muslim is always free speech, and all other communities are a grey area.
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« Reply #13 on: Oct 20, 2008 04:38 PM »

wsalam,

(I removed the jokes. The point cheese was making is that they are offensive replace the name with whatever group, but I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea. I left the original "muslim" one up so we can discuss it.)


The only time I will *ever* agree with Cheese. Finding something offensive doesn't mean you go out and riot and burn down banks. (Unfortunately agreed Muslims have been known to have this reaction but that doesn't mean we sit back and do nothing.) We have a right to find something offensive and if you find something offensive you go to the authorities and you ask them to remove it. You boycott the item. You make it so unpleasant in various legal ways that no one would ever think of doing something like that again. You make it part of the culture that it is wrong to make fun of that group. A good example is the strides Jews have made with anti-semitism. No author, newspaper or layperson in this country ever says anything disparaging because they are quick to protest, boycott and move against them. That is smart. And that is what we need to be doing. Instead of sitting back and "pretending to laugh" over cartoons which were NOT made to be funny. If they were 'funny' they'd be in the funnies section, not the political commentary section.

I'm kind of scared of what the Muslim reaction will be to this book "The Jewel of Medina" where the author makes up trashy stories about our Aisha radiAllahu anha, also makes up a story about an affair of hers while married to the prophet saw. SubhanAllah the more time goes on the more it is the same. This is the exact same thing some "poets" of the time slandered her with. What we should be doing is organizing articles and civilized protests and boycotting. And then someone should actually write a GOOD book about Aisha ra refuting this other book.

 
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« Reply #14 on: Oct 20, 2008 05:11 PM »

The thing is though, and perhaps I am in the minority here, I find "Jew" jokes funny as well.  I have had many Jewish friends that find those jokes funny as well, and they are comfortable sharing them with me.  Ethinc jokes don't make me think down upon any cultures, and I don't think very many people take them to heart, forming their opinions of people based entirely on stereotypes.

Jannah, the original poster removed the picture after others complained that it was offensive, which is what prompted me to post the picture here.  Please don't take that the wrong way, I don't mean to offend people here, but rather I wanted to see how other Muslims felt about this picture.  However, I don't think my interpretation of the picture is overly positive or extremely optimistic; I do believe that most people are smart enough to recognize when their fears or their suspicions have no basis in truth or reason. It's the reason random people in airports just give Muslims "dirty looks" and don't try to start physical/verbal altercations, they have control over their actions, and they excercise a certain degree of restraint because they know their thoughts are unfair.  

I'm truely sorry if anyone is offended by this picture, and I wouldn't mind deleting this posting if anyone isn't comfortable with it.  However, I do feel that this a very intelligent discussion and I'm taking alot away from reading everyone's thoughts and opinions.  
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« Reply #15 on: Oct 20, 2008 09:54 PM »

First of all Islamically we are not allowed to do jokes that make fun of neone or ne group and its not allowed to make a joke that is false

and when it comes to jokes about us we should have a calm manner and use it as an opportunity to correct people.

so yes there is a diff when the jokes about and its about someone else. As muslims we are the role models. we should not take offense easily but when it comes to making jokes about other people or groups we should not allow it, we should be the first to condemn it.
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« Reply #16 on: Oct 22, 2008 06:12 AM »

Remember this dear sisters and brothers:
Sticks and Stones may break my bones
But names (and pictures) can never hurt me.

I'm with Bro Timbuktu, I found it amusing.
cheese
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« Reply #17 on: Oct 22, 2008 12:13 PM »

I don’t have a problem with people finding it funny, unless they find the similar jokes that I put up about Jews funny too.
The thing is they have been removed by the moderator so you can’t really make a judgement can you?
People only say sticks and stones, when people insult Muslims. Do they ever say it when others are insulted?
No, they say gratuitously offensive.
If that picture was about Jews, the poster would have been placed in prison for a very long time; Moderate Muslims would support the imprisonment.

Either jokes against everyone should be allowed, or jokes against no one.
But when you have what we have now. Where jokes against Muslims are tolerated so discussions can take place, and jokes against others especially Jews aren’t, even for the purposes of discussion. What does that say?
nuh
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« Reply #18 on: Oct 22, 2008 04:57 PM »

As salaam alaikum.

Funny --

From my point of view the camel rider is likely the victim of economic, social and cultural terrorism by whoever is driving the cars.

Allah knows best.

nuh
 bro
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