// accountability for apostacy, more research
    Peace be upon you,
    Welcome to Madinat Al-Muslimeen, the City of the Muslims. Please feel free to visit the different hot spots around the Madina and post any discussion, articles, suggestions, comments, art, poetry, events, recipes, etc etc. Basically anything you would like to share with your sisters and brothers!! Non-muslims are also of course quite welcome to share their comments. If this is your first time here, you need to register with the city council. Once you register you have 15 days to post your mandatory introduction and then you will be upgraded to a Madina Citizen, God Willing. Please note that our city does have regulations which are listed in the city constitution. Read them carefully before moving in. P.S. - You can also post anonymously if you wish. P.S.S. - Also be sure to check out our ARCHIVES from 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 & 2007. :)

Random Quote: Everything I do is for the pleasure of Allah. --Cat Stevens
Pages: [1]   Go Down
Author Topic: accountability for apostacy, more research  (Read 1756 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
« on: Oct 25, 2008 06:08 PM »

peace be upon you

Are we pushing Muslims to rebellion and Apostacy?

When researching for my novel, I got frightened.

Frightened of what is happening to humanity, and particularly to us Muslims, and what it is leading up to.

What is happening to us today?

We have seen poverty, and our major fear is that if we do not give our children a professional degree or an established business, they will lag behind. We want the best for them, and so we work extra hard, thinking that we have provided the latest gadgets, food on the table, bigger and bigger houses. Unfortunately, the world is not being run according to Islamic principles, so we have to live according to its economic rules. These in turn are flouted by those of who can - Muslim or non-Muslim. We cater to our children's whims, or we discipline them harshly. We look at the world, and think it is money that makes it go round, so we want our children to have money and status. We guide them to secure, well-paying professions, without checking if they are suited to these.

At the same time, we are afraid that the children, particularly afraid that the girls, will go astray, and have relationships or occupations or marriages that are not Islamic. We are not that worried much about our sons doing unIslamic things. Where it comes to our women, we are extra conservative. What we tolerate from our brothers and sons, we cannot see in our sisters or daughters. When they ask why can we not do what this person is doing, we say because he/she is a non-Muslim. And if a Muslim does it, we say he is a bad example. He will end up in Hell, and we want to go to Heaven.

Unfortunately we too sometimes, if not often, set bad examples. We tell lies. We cut corners. We engage in interest-bearing activities. Some of us take alcohol.

In the teen years, we notice a change in our children's behaviour that is bewildering to us. They are rebellious. They experiment with bad taste. At college they prefer to go away from home. Many start living a double life - drink, dance and sex at school, Salah and obedience at home. Those who cannot live a double life, feel miserable, rebel, and leave home to live the life they want.

This is in the West, where despite economic meltdowns, there is a safety net, and the jobs are still many orders of magnitude more than in the East.

But quite often we shut the doors on women who sin in our eyes. Deprived of community contact and support, they seek comfort among non-Muslims, and eventually become apostates.

Wouldn't we be held accountable for this?

I saw this when I reviewed The Spy Princess, and saw that the entire Universal Sufi Movement in the West had gone apostate, but there was no dialogue with it from Muslims.

Researching for my novel, I came across a model who did not say she was giving up Islam, but her actions were contrary to Islam, and she admitted it as such. She was shunned by the community, and pushed away, so that eventually she married a Jew, and lives a life with Jewish friends. What chance is there of her or her children coming back to Islam. Had her Muslim friends maintained a cordial relationship with her, she may have had a chance to come back to Islam.

There must be many more in society who had been similarly made outcast by our community, and they will, on the Day of Judgement, accuse us of abandoning them. They will be right.

In the Muslim countries too this apostacy has also existed. However, people eventually did come back to Islam, with time. Very few would die apostate. This is now changing, too.

There is a saying of the Prophet something to the effect that a time will come when a person will be momin in the morning, but kaafir in the evening; and momin in the evening, but kaafir in the morning. We see this happening today. Fitnahs are coming rapidly line drops of rain.

Events are taking place that lead up to the Qiyyamah, and before that the coming of the Dajjal, and we are not equipped.

Let us save ourselves, and our families from Hell.

Ingrain in them the love of Allah (swt) and the Prophet (saw). Teach them to fear the growing of shirk and the loss of Eemaan. Equip them with duas and recitations for protection.

      § Surah Fateha
      § Ayatul Kursi
      § Surah Kahf, every Friday before the Jumma Salah
      § Surahs Ikhlas, Falaq and Naas
Teach them the masnoon dua:

Allahummak fena be halaleka un harameka wa aghnena be fadleka umman sewaak

and wird of:

Subhanallah, wal Hamdulillah, wa la ilaha illallah, walla Allahu Akbar, wa la hawla wa la quwwata illa billah

And don't push a sinner away. He/she is not najas, the action is.
Hero Member

Reputation Power: 277
jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!
Gender: Female
Posts: 7131

I heart the Madina

« Reply #1 on: Oct 25, 2008 06:18 PM »


jazakallah khair A good summary of many of our problems Sad and a good reminder. How much are we to blame for others' choices? We all make choices that affect others. They're responsible for their actions and we're responsible for ours. If each person lived up to their end of the bargain the system would work. unfortunately seems like neither side is.
« Reply #2 on: Oct 26, 2008 11:51 AM »

peace be upon you

The Minimalist Muslim

Thursday, October 02, 2008
8:10 AM

This is a term I first heard from Dr. Kalim Siddiqui.

In one of his articles he wrote about "The Minimalist Muslim". Whether it was his own concept, or borrowed from others, I do not know. His argument was that when the Imperialists invaded us, occupied our lands, toppled Muslim governments, killed many Ulema and leaders, and sent missionaries to convert us to Christianity, the Ulema decided to save what Islam was left in Muslims, by defining Muslim at a level of practice and knowledge that was barely sufficient - like saying the shahada, offering the Salah, attending the Jumma Khutba and prayers, keeping the fast in Ramadan, and performing Hajj when legally binding.

There is some truth in this thesis, although maybe not all the Muslim generations before Imperialism were so learned in Islam. it seems that after the so-called independence, the definition has been further downgraded, by the liberal Muslims. On the other hand, many groups have emerged which narrow the definition to apply to their own followers.

As I review the world of my times, I see that there has not been real independence. There is somewhat more freedom of choice. Unfortunately the choices are usually between Haram activities.

To link with the topic of the initial post here, look at the methods of making a living.

If a friend or brother lands a well-paying job with the IMF, or even a local bank, we are proud, although his work involves and benefits the haram interest system, and helps in subjugation of the Muslim people. But if a sister or daughter joins the film industry, or the modeling profession, we disown her.

We watch all types of movies, we see tennis - mixed or single gender, other mixed sports, etc., but wouldn't allow the females in our families to engage in these.

What I say is: Keep our people within the fold. Let us have the definition of a Minimalist Muslim. Let us be happy when someone passes that definition. He/she can be encouraged to become better later in life.

Which one of us can claim to be pious enough to cast the first stone?
Sr. Member

Reputation Power: 3
Faizah has no influence :(
Gender: Female
Posts: 365

« Reply #3 on: Oct 26, 2008 05:05 PM »

As salaamu alaikum

Indeed thank you for posting these.  What much of this points to is the classic "double standard" that has infected society and made acceptable the concept of "anything goes" and "boys will be boys".  Additionally that the pursuit of fitting into non-Muslim society is the only objective  especially when it is sometimes easier to go with the flow than go against it.   

Not every Muslim woman is blessed to have the men in her life - father; husband; son - nor the support of the community so she has no choice but to either do for herself or depend on non-Muslim society.  Either scenario can result in problems.  Do for self and the community may well cast her aside because she isn't living right or depend on non-Muslim society that doesn't respect her faith and thus strives to pull her astray.  And if she desires to actually have a man in her life she must further accept that such most likely won't be found among her Muslim brothers because they are often too focused on the non-Muslim women of the world who willingly dispaly their wares but they aren't shunned as a result of making that choice; rather they are often praised and admired even in the face of the suffering of their Muslim sisters.  How does that make a bit of sense?  It doesn't.  But again the double standard applies.

So of course there are choices to be made.  Live for today and present time happiness and prosperity or live on the hope of a promise of better to come; the ease that follows hardship.  Someone recently reminded me of the latter - that ease follows hardship - but I countered with the fact that it would seem to only apply to hardship that is beyond our control and not that which we willfully subject ourselves to.  Amazingly I got no response to that; perhaps I struck a nerve.

Exhaustion and frustration often make decisions for us; while we would all rather live right we also know that in order to survive we have to modify our thinking and pursue things we might have otherwise dismissed.  Are we to be held accountable for the actions of others if we ourselves are pursuing the same?   I doubt it.  Indeed until we ourselves are so far removed from wrong choices we cannot speak to the wrong choices of others.  We can only begin with ourselves in making wise choices and in doing so set a better example that hopefully others will follow.

« Reply #4 on: Nov 03, 2008 02:32 PM »

peace be upon you

I did some more research on apostates, and I was surprised to see there have been some prominent ones. In most cases it was the love of dunya that made people made the choice of leaving Islam. One of the Presidents of Argentina (Carlos Saúl Menem Akil) was a Muslim who converted to Roman Catholicism in order to satisfy his political ambitions. It wasn't until the mid nineties that Argentina abolished the requirement of her President being a Roman Catholic. Ibne Hafsun in Spain, The Khans of Kazan and Qasim in Russia, all became Christians to retain or to get lands to rule from the dominant Christian Emperors.

Some apostates are reverts from Christianity, who went back to Christianity. How genuine was their intial reversion to Islam, is open to doubt.

Queen Nazli of Egypt and one of her daughters also converted to Roman Catholicism, the latter to marry her Copt lover. They dies and are buried in the US.

The other daughters of Nazli remained Sunnis to the end. They too had been in exile in Europe, but refused to join Nazli, even when their stipends were cut off. They worked like us commoners for a living, and upon their death were brought to Cairo, where they are buried.

The Shah of Iran's elder sister Shams also converted to Roman Catholicism. Princess Soraya Bakhtiari, the Shah's first wife,  who was divorced for being infertile, tried her hand at being an actress in Hollywood before becoming a director's companion. She probably converted as well, for the American Consulate held a service for her upon her death. Since the Iranian elite had been Westernised, it is not surpeising.

Such conversions from ordinary Shia to Christianity, or from wahdatul wujud Sufis is also understandable. When they have already accepted divinity in humans, it is a smaller step to transfer their belief of the incarnate god from their previous one to Jesus.

I was more surprised at apostacies from so-called wahabism, but it seems that here some display strictness and ex-communication. This causes people to lose faith. And here we need to understand how to get such extremists to listen to us.

Others who left Islam, did have questions to which their pre-conceived/determined answers were not forthcoming.

Some have started campaigns against Islam, while most have left it quietly.

The viciousness with which non-Muslim Imperialism attacks Islam, is fed by such campaigns.

Under the circumstances, perhaps the Jurists were right in turning the apostate away from the community,  and in prescribing the death penalty for those apostates who vilify Islam. But the experience of Afghanistan, Chechnya, Iraq and kashmir shows that Imprerialism will not leave us alone.

I have to think more about what would be the correct response to apostates. Even better, what is the way to prevent Muslims from becoming apostate and going to Hell as a result. As the prophesies of our beloved last Prophet Muhammad (saws) regarding the end times, come true, and people give up Eemaan for dunya, perhaps instead of engaging with apostates, may be it would be better to turn to individual salvation.

Regarding Yasmeen Ghauri, I now have no doubt in my mind that she has deliberately left Islam to enjoy life. She had an unhappy childhood, with constant bickering at home - something then to avoid in your home. In one of her interviews she is implying that her father said "I (Yasmeen Ghauri) am Muslim, and in Islam we are not allowed to drink, dance, show skin, etc. all that I am doing now". Clearly snubbing her father and those who question her choice of a career. She makes fun of her father when he says "You are putting me in jeopardy. You are going to Hell". all very dramatic, she says with a condescending smile. At the end of her catwalk, she puts her heel fown, as if she is making a statement. What statement is she making? Obviously that "I am doing what is forbidden in Islam. What can you do"?

All we can do is to try to prevent our own from being tainted with her outlook on life.

It is ourselves and our own relatives we must first try to save from hellfire.
Sr. Member

Reputation Power: 4
Abdurahman has no influence :(
Gender: Male
Posts: 390

Oh Allah, Guide us to the Straight Path.

« Reply #5 on: Nov 05, 2008 08:12 PM »

Asalamualaikum wrt wb,

All praise be to Allah.

Firstly, I ask Allah to protect us from the Fitn.  No one can be saved except by His Help.  Oh Allah, we are weak, Help us with your Might and Power.

According to the scholars, Imaan increases and decreases.  Our Imaan increases by remembrance of the greatness of Allah, reflecting on His Signs and Attributes, and foremost, by knowledge.  Allah says:  "Indeed only those fear Allah from His servants who have Knowledge."  Thus, a Muslim should equip himself with knowledge of the deen, which will lead to fear of Allah in his heart, and this fear is the fountainhead of all true knowledge, in fact it is the goal of the knowledge-seeker.

In terms of those who turn away from Allah, this can be for one of a number of reasons:

1.)  Out of ignorance of the truth, and they have been misguided by the specious arguments of the enemies of faith.  For such people, a dose of knowledge, sound proofs, and refutations of the falsehoods can be a source of light for them.  For example, someone might be fooled by the false claim of Christians that God is Trinity, like ice, water, and steam are three, but one at the same time.

The truth, however, is that ice, water, and steam are all essentialy H-2-O, ie. their essence is one.  God, and Jesus, and Jibreel, on the other hand, and fundmentally different, Allah is infinite, and Jesus is flesh and bones, and Jibreel is made from light.  Allah is One.

These types of doubtful matters are very dangerous.  Shaykh ul Islam Ibn Taymiyyah gave this advice to one of his students:  "Don't make your heart open to all doubtful matters, swallowing them in like soil absorbs water.  Rather, make your heart like glass, let the light in, but keep the harmful things out."

The solution for such people is to spend time with the Ulema, in the Masajid, and learn the truth.  They should aquire beneficial knowledge from the learned scholars, listen to mp3s and online lectures, and attain the fiqh of the religion.

2.)  They may stray away from Islam because of the harsh treatments of others.  It could be people at the masjid, parents, a bad spouse, etc.  Such people should be treated with kindness.  We should not treat them harshly since they have a wrong image of Islam in their minds, and harshness will push them further away.  Rather we should show them the true picture of Islam through our good character.  Perhaps our humbleness towards them will ward off their false impressions.

The Prophet, peace be upon him, told the Sahabah not to curse a Muslim who was frequently drunk , since that would help the Shaitan against him.

So we should keep our ties with them, and be gentle, compassionate, and helpful to them, as long as they do not call us to misguidance, and there is hope for their rectification.

3.)  There are those who know the truth of Islam, but reject it to follow their vain passions and desires.  They sell the signs of Allah for a small worldly gain.  Such people are deluded and living in a false reality. The only thing that will wake them up is when their soul reaches their throats, at the moment of death, when they suddenly wake up to the reality of this dunya, and wish they could turn back the clocks and repent.  Alas, it will be too late. 

But if they repent before that, Allah will Run to them.  Allah is Most Merciful, and Forgiving.

Finally, we have to turn to Allah and seek refuge in Him from the Fitn.  Oh Allah, do not leave us to rely upon ourselves, even for the blink of an eye.  Oh Allah, return the Muslims to Your religion in a beautiful way.  Ameen!

And Allah knows best.

Be merciful to those on earth, and the One in the Heavens will be merciful to you.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
Jump to: