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Author Topic: Remembrance Day  (Read 1208 times)
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nuh
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« on: Nov 11, 2008 11:44 AM »


As salaam alaikum.

Citizens of Canada today have a day off for Remembrance Day. A day when citizens are expected to reflect on the historical sacrifices of soldiers during times of war.

As a result of our involvement in Afghanistan this year I am having a hard time getting behind the idea.

Anyway, here is something on which to reflect from the Islamic point of view:

http://ccmt.jucanada.org/days_celebrations.aspx/days__celebrations/remembrance_day_islamic_viewpoint

Ma'as salaama,
nuh
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lucid
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« Reply #1 on: Nov 12, 2008 12:13 AM »

nuh,

if you are having trouble understanding the significance of it, try imagining yourself with the Nazi prime minister and SS soldiers on every corner.

for better or for worse, europeans have tried to make a mess of the world twice in the past century, i mean a real mess.  and if wasn't for america, canada and some other far away countries cleaning up their mess, we'd all be ruled by nazis and fascist japanese today.

as it turned out -- the germans and japanese are now among the kindest and most peaceful people....
timbuktu
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« Reply #2 on: Nov 13, 2008 09:38 AM »

peace be upon you

While I agree that Nazis and fascists were an abhorent lot, and there is no harm in observing Remembrance Day, the altruistic motives being assigned to Canada and the US aren't true.

Canada joined the war because it was a white Dominion of the British Empire.

The US had military capacity, was an Industrial giant, and wanted to expand its markets to the colonies of the established empires.

If you think it was altruistic, why did the US support the Dutch in their hold on Indonesia, why did it first support the French in Indo-China and then take over the Imperial agenda itself?
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« Reply #3 on: Nov 13, 2008 11:32 AM »

assalamualaikum

that is a very cynical point of view. 

nobody knows the exact intentions of the leaders at that time.  but what is crystal clear is that thousands and thousands and thousands of american soldiers went to europe ready to give their lives for an ideal -- european freedom.  they weren't thinking about complicated geopolitics, about indo-China, about empires, and the shadows and mirrors of international politics etc.. 

And many of them died.  More than 100 million people died in WWII, many of them American, Canadian, Australian, etc... Everybody in the whole world owes them a great deal, even Asians.  My grandmother heard the Japanese bombing near her home, and I shudder to think what would have happened to us had the Japanese won the war in Asia.
timbuktu
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 13, 2008 11:48 AM »

peace be upon you

I am tempted to let you have the last word Smiley , but just this once I will make a reply.

There is enough historical record and analysis available to support what I have said.

Most soldiers and citizens are fed altruistic non-sense, so as to garner support for the war. It isn't easy to ask people to come and kill other humans, however low in humanity the common man may feel.

In our own times, the justification for the Iraq war was to bring democracy to Iraq and the Middle East.

Oil, and US bases, and Israel were dismissed as red herrings.

The Vietnamese who died in their struggle against US Imperialism, had fought against the Japanese, too.

One may remember the foot-soldiers of Imperialism, but it is better to remember those who were the real victims, then and after.
nuh
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 13, 2008 08:15 PM »

As salaam alaikum.


if you are having trouble understanding the significance of it, try imagining yourself with the Nazi prime minister and SS soldiers on every corner.


I just want to close out my original post with a couple quick notes on me...

I am a Canadian, a revert and have personally served in the Canadian Forces. My parents were both in the military, grandparents on both sides served in the military during the second world war -- a history lesson is not needed for me to understand the selflessness of previous generations regarding service to "Queen (or King) and Country".

My issue is with the tying of the historic campaigns of the past to the current campaign in Afghanistan.

Ma'as salaama,
nuh
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lucid
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« Reply #6 on: Nov 14, 2008 12:49 AM »

assalamualaikum

congratulations then.  your parents are then partly why my mother isn't a Japanese Geisha girl today...and why instead she is utterly cool and a hero for all women. (yes, my siblings and I love our mother too much; us kids think she is like wonder woman and supergirl put together Smiley )
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