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« on: Nov 26, 2008 10:38 PM »

  • When will it end  Sad

    Mumbai rocked by deadly attacks

    Gunmen have opened fire at a number of sites in the Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay), killing at least 78 people and injuring about 200 more.

    Police said shooting was continuing and that the incidents were co-ordinated terrorist attacks. Gunmen have taken hostages at two luxury hotels.

    At least seven sites have been targeted across India's financial capital.

    A fire is sweeping through the Taj Palace, Mumbai's most famous hotel which is now surrounded by troops.

    The BBC's Andrew Whitehead says a claim of responsibility by a little-known group, Deccan Mujhaideen, may harden suspicions that Islamic radicals are involved.

    But there are other possible culprits, our correspondent says.

    The motive, far from clear - but the attacks come amid elections in several Indian states, including in disputed Kashmir.

    In the latest developments:

    • Commandos have surrounded two hotels, the Taj Mahal and the Oberoi, where gunmen are reported to be holding dozens of hostages, including foreigners

    • A fire appears to be spreading through the Taj Mahal hotel

    • A witness told local television that the gunmen were looking for people with British or US passports

    • The head of Mumbai's anti-terrorism unit is among those killed, according to local TV

    • At least two blasts, suspected to be grenade attacks, have been reported

    • The US and the UK have both condemned the attacks

    On Wednesday, gunmen opened fire at about 2300 local time at sites in southern Mumbai including a train station, two five-star hotels, a hospital and a restaurant popular with tourists.

    Police said the gunmen had fired indiscriminately.

    "The terrorists have used automatic weapons and in some places grenades have been lobbed," said AN Roy, police commissioner of Maharashtra state.

    Mumbai journalist: "Gunmen were looking for Westerners"

    At least 10 people were killed at the main station Chhatrapati Shivaji railway station, they said.

    Some gunmen were still holed up in buildings that had been targeted, officials said.

    Mr Roy said gunmen were holding people hostage at the Taj Mahal and Oberoi hotels.

    Local TV images showed blood-splattered streets, bodies being taken into ambulances and dramatic shots of what appeared to fresh blasts inside the Taj Mahal hotel.

    One eyewitness told the BBC he had seen a gunman opening fire in the Taj Mahal's lobby.

    He said he had seen people fall before he fled the lobby.
    30 October: Explosions kill at least 64 in north-eastern Assam
    30 September: Blasts in western India kill at least seven
    27 September: Bomb blasts kills one in Delhi
    13 September: Five bomb blasts kill 18 in Delhi
    26 July: At least 22 small bombs kill 49 in Ahmedabad
    25 July: Seven bombs go off in Bangalore killing two people
    13 May: Seven bomb hit markets and crowded streets in Jaipur killing 63

    "All I saw was one man on foot carrying a machine gun type of weapon - which I then saw him firing from and I saw people hitting the floor, people right next to me," he said.

    There has been a wave of bombings in Indian cities in recent months which has left scores of people dead.

    Most of the attacks have been blamed on Muslim militants, although police have also arrested suspected Hindu extremists.

    A series of attacks in Mumbai in July 2006 killed almost 190 people and injured more than 700.

    Bombs were detonated on commuter trains during rush hour.

    Police accused Pakistan's intelligence agency of planning the attacks, which they said were carried out by an Islamist militant group, Lashkar-e-Toiba.

    Pakistan rejected the allegation, saying there was no evidence that its intelligence staff were involved.

    The shootings come at a time when ties between India and Pakistan have improved, and days after Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari told a summit in Delhi that Pakistan would not be first to carry out a missile strike on India.

    The two countries have a joint anti-terror mechanism whereby they are supposed to share information on terrorist attacks.

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« Reply #1 on: Nov 26, 2008 11:19 PM »


WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE!!!  AT A HOSPITAL at a train station at hotels... what evil evil people. I hope they burn in hell.

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« Reply #2 on: Nov 26, 2008 11:42 PM »

And the thing is it's SO difficult to find out who's behind it. The BBC's security correspondent Frank Gardner was just saying on TV how the group claiming responsibility for the attacks "Deccan Mujahedeen" was unknown till now and it could be anyone just using the name. He was saying how a single person (Muslim, Hindu, Christian, you name it) in a bedsit could "claim responsibility" simply by sending an email.

All the reports are so confusing as well, a couple of things don't make sense at all  idunno
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« Reply #3 on: Nov 27, 2008 07:47 PM »

Asalamualaikum wrt wb,

All praise be to Allah.

The scholars say:

Yet again, more innocents have been murdered by people claiming that their actions are in the name of Islam, people who in truth are far removed from the teachings of Islam and from the hearts of the Muslim people.

It is painful to hear about the death of innocents, whoever those innocents might be. It is repulsive to hear about senseless violence and bloodshed, regardless of who the perpetrators are and regardless of who the victims might be.

It cuts us even deeper when those who perpetrate such vile crimes have the audacity to publicly declare their acts to be in the name of Islam.

We condemn the killing of innocents because it is evil, because it is wrong. Our religion teaches us so. We as Muslims – who submit ourselves to Allah’s will in all of our affairs – cannot stand by and see our religion flagrantly violated and misrepresented by people committing the worst and most atrocious crimes in its name.

It is our duty as Muslim scholars to not only condemn these atrocities, but to teach the people to understand how evil they are and how contrary they are to the teachings of Islam

We must stand with a united voice in our condemnation and be perfectly clear and frank in what we say. There should be no room left in anyone’s mind for doubt. It must be known that Islam is the religion of truth, of justice, of tolerance, and of the loftiest and most noble values.

These vile acts must stop.

It is the duty of all Muslims throughout the world to add their voices to the condemnation of terrorism and murder, until no one in the world can doubt that Islam and the Muslims are free from any association with such vile acts.

It is twisted reasoning for anyone to try and justify these murders on the basis of what others are doing to Muslims around the world. Evil deeds cannot be justified by the conduct of others. Those others are not our example. Our example is the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). It is him we follow. It is his example we emulate.

He suffered the worst cruelties in Mecca. His followers were persecuted, tortured, and killed. The Muslims were expelled from their homes, boycotted economically, and starved. The Prophet (peace be upon him) lost his wife during the time of boycott and hunger that the Meccans subjected the Muslims to.

Ultimately, the Muslims were forced to flee from their homeland and seek refuge in Madinah.

During their time of weakness, the Muslims never perpetrated any injustice against their enemies. They endured in patience. Then, many years later, when the tables were turned, and the Muslims marched back into Mecca as a formidable and irresistible army, they declared a general amnesty and conquered Mecca without bloodshed.

During the intervening years between their expulsion from Mecca and their eventual return, the pagans of Mecca did not leave them in peace. They were constantly attacking the Muslims, building alliances against them, and doing everything in their power to wipe the nascent religion off the face of the Earth. On the eve of the Battle of Badr, where the Muslims were vastly outnumbered, the Prophet turned to his Lord and pleaded: “O Allah, if this small band of people is destroyed, you will not be worshipped upon the Earth after today.” [Sahîh Muslim]

The pagans of Mecca were united in their hatred of Islam. They were a tribe, a single, large family. Their menfolk went forth to fight. Their elders advised them and reminded them of their honor and their duty. Their womenfolk incited them to go forth.

During the battle of Uhud, the wives of the Meccan soldiers, led by Hind, went out to the battlefield, beat inspiringly upon tambourines, and sang:

If you go forth, we shall embrace you
And spread out the cushions.

But if you retreat we will abandon you
With total disaffection.

Historians describe to us how their singing stirred up the Meccan army and incited them to fight in what was their greatest victory against the Muslims. During this battle, the Meccans mutilated the corpses of the Muslim casualties and showed no mercy.

However, it is in precisely such a historical context that the Islamic rulings regarding warfare – rulings preventing the killing of innocents and civilians – were set forth.

Ibn `Umar said: “I saw the body of a slain woman during one of the battles of the Prophet (peace be upon him), so he forbade the killing of women and children.” [Sahîh al-Bûkhârî and Sahîh Muslim]

Rabâh b. Rabî` said: “We were with Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) during a battle and we saw people gathered together. He dispatched a man to find out why they were gathered. The man returned and said: ‘They are gathered around a slain woman.’ So Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: ‘She should not have been attacked!’ Khâlid b. al-Walîd was leading the forces, so he dispatched a man to him saying: “Tell Khâlid not to kill women or laborers’.” [Sunan Abî Dâwûd]

It is also related that Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: “Tell him not kill children or laborers.” [Sunan Ibn Mâjah]

Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) would say the following words to his troops before sending them to war: “Go forward in the name of Allah. Do not kill an elderly person, nor a small child, nor a woman, and do not exceed the bounds.” [Sunan Abî Dâwûd]

This is how we are to conduct ourselves with those who aggress against us in the heat of war. We are never to harm innocent people. It does not matter if those people belong to a nation that is transgressing against us and it does not matter what that nation might subject us to. We do not do such things. We are Muslims. We are the ones who meet falsehood with truth and repel evil with good.

This has always been our quality, and it still is the quality of the Muslims today. However, now we are being robbed of our history by a few people, an infinitely small minority, who are blackening the name of Islam with their crimes.

We as Muslims have gone through times of weakness before in our history. Our people were burned to death in their mosques during the Crusades. Whole cities were expunged of their human inhabitants. Genocide was carried out in many places. Then, when the tide of history turned and the Muslims retook the Holy Land, their clemency, forgiveness, justice, and mercy became the stuff of legend. Muslims to this day speak with pride about this.

When again, during the Mongol invasion, the streets of Baghdad ran red with blood and atrocities were committed against the Muslims the likes of which had never been witnessed in human history up to that time, the Muslims did not lose sight of their values. When victory was again theirs, they never conducted themselves in such a vicious manner.

For fourteen hundred years Muslims have gone through many periods of strength and weakness. In their moments of weakness, they suffered many a horrible defeat at the hands of some of history’s most vicious of enemies – in Spain, in Central Asia, in India, and elsewhere. Yet, for fourteen hundred years, the Muslims upheld their values and were an unparalleled example of humanity, justice, tolerance, and mercy.

That is, until now.

Our history is on the verge of being stolen from us by a small minority of people who do not and can never represent us. The history of the Muslim Ummah is being written right now. What is going on today is tomorrow’s history and it is not something that our children will be able to look back on with pride. However, it is not too late. We must stand up with a united voice as a single Muslim Ummah and condemn all acts of terror, all acts of injustice, and all acts of aggression against civilians, especially those acts that anyone would dare to perpetrate in Islam’s good name.

We can and we must salvage our history for our children and our posterity. They should be able to look back on our times with pride, and boast how the Muslims of our day and age, when faced with enormous challenges and injustices, upheld the values of Islam, maintained their honor and their ethics, and prevailed with justice, mercy, and dignity.

Taken from:

Be merciful to those on earth, and the One in the Heavens will be merciful to you.
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 27, 2008 08:26 PM »

salaam.. well this was just terrible terrible news. its hard to believe that 'real muslims' did this and even if they did it is even harder to  beleive they did it in the name of Islam. Allahu alim. prime minister is blaming pakistan and pakistan said dont accuse them of these evil acts by doing that they are ruining the good relations they started to have. wel lthat was in another news.
victims say attackers fired randomly

Mumbai victim: 'They just fired randomly'
Tourists hide under tables in hotels; commuters flee train station shootout

     Evacuee shares Mumbai terror tale
Nov. 26: MSNBC's David Shuster talks on the phone with Bob Carnell, a British citizen, who was evacuated from the Taj Hotel after a harrowing night inside his room in that hotel. MSNBC terrorism analyst Roger Cressey joins coverage with analysis.
  Obama speaks with Rice about Mumbai attacks
Some hostages freed from Mumbai's Taj hotel

 updated 2:41 a.m. CT, Thurs., Nov. 27, 2008
MUMBAI, India - Western visitors and Mumbai residents ducked under tables at luxury five-star hotels as staff members locked restaurant doors at the first rattle of gunfire and explosions in the lobby below.

Not far away, army commandoes in battle-ready camouflage uniforms battled attackers in black shirts and jeans carrying shoulder bags filled with ammunition at Mumbai's main railway station, which was filled with commuters waiting to catch trains home.

Twelve hours after the first shots were fired at about 10 p.m. at a busy Mumbai cafe, the terror attacks continued Thursday inside two of the city's best-known and most opulent hotels where terrorists still held hostages.

"We were at dinner when we heard shots fired. There was gunfire and explosions. We stayed on the floor, many were lying under tables, under furniture, and the hotel staff told us to be quiet," said Cheryl Robinson, a British tourist who was trapped inside Mumbai's Taj Mahal hotel with two friends. "The hotel staff were stupendous. They locked the doors and warned us to sit tight."

She said restaurants and rooms were flooded with water after a pipe burst in the chaos of the gunshots and blasts. "We lay down in the water. We could hear the sound of people running outside. It was terrifying."

Seven long hours later, a barefoot Robinson shivered as she stood outside the burning but still majestic stone-columned hotel that belched out black smoke from shattered windows. Soldiers and firefighters helped her and several others to climb down ladders and escape the blazing edifice as the firing continued inside.

A clutch of weeping tourists from Spain, Italy and Britain, also barefoot, huddled together holding bottles of water and haversacks. They waved away journalists eager for news.

'Young boys'
At another Mumbai landmark, the Chattrapati Shivaji Terminus railway station, Nasim Inam's hands shook as he spoke of seeing commuters mowed down while walking to catch the late trains home.

Four young men carrying big guns and wearing black T-shirts and blue jeans rushed in, Inam said. "They just fired randomly at people and then ran away. In seconds, people fell to the ground."

Sobbing and shaking his head, he said the attackers were 25 years old at the most.

"They were so young. They were young boys," said Inam. "I was standing behind. I was just behind. If they had turned around, it would have been me."

Just a few miles away, eyewitnesses said gunmen hijacked a police van then opened fire on crowds that had collected near two hospitals close to the police headquarters.

"We felt the ground shake and heard the explosions," said Manish Tripathi, at a police cordon near one of the hospitals. "We heard a car speed up behind us, it was a police van, but the men inside were firing at us."

He said in seconds people around him were shot at. "Men were screaming that they had lost their fingers. There was blood all over," said Tripathi who escaped unhurt. "Some were shot in the leg, some on the shoulder or hand. I feel they are still screaming."

Inside the two Mumbai hotels and the railway station, green uniformed soldiers in helmets took over from the khaki-uniformed police who moved out to patrol the streets and warned residents to stay indoors.

The state government has ordered schools and colleges closed Thursday.

Opposite the multistory Oberoi hotel, a tense college student Preet Desai paced on a deserted promenade as dawn broke. He said a friend's father was inside the hotel at a business meeting when shots were fired.

"My friend is shattered. His dad is not answering his cell. What do we do?" said Desai. "Do you know anyone in the hotel who can give us information, any information?"

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« Reply #5 on: Nov 27, 2008 08:46 PM »

From the New York Times:

Sophisticated Attacks, but by Whom?

Published: November 27, 2008

PARIS — A day after the terror attacks in Mumbai that killed over 100 people, one question remained as impenetrable as the smoke that still billowed from two of the city’s landmark hotels: who carried out the attacks?

At Least 100 Dead in India Terror Attacks (November 27, 2008)
The Lede: Latest on the Attacks (November 27, 2008)
The Lede: Call for Eyewitnesses (November 26, 2008)
Times Topics: Terrorism in IndiaThe Indian authorities say they captured some of the attackers, so some answers may emerge soon. But for now, their identities remain a mystery. Surviving witnesses recalled the gunmen as masked young men in unremarkable T-shirts and jeans, some heavily armed, wearing backpacks filled with weapons. The only claim of responsibility came from a group that may not even exist.

The assaults represented a marked departure in scope and ambition from other recent terrorist attacks in India, which have singled out local people rather than foreigners and hit single rather than multiple targets.

The Mumbai assault, by contrast, was seemed directed at foreigners, involved hostage taking and was aimed at multiple and highly symbolic targets.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of India said the attacks probably had “external linkages,” reflecting calculations among Indian officials that the level of planning, preparation and coordination could not have been achieved without help from experienced terrorists. But some security experts insisted the style of the attacks and the targets in Mumbai suggested the militants were likely to be Indian Muslims, with a domestic agenda.

The e-mail message taking responsibility that was sent to Indian media outlets on Wednesday night said the attackers were from a group called Deccan Mujahedeen. Deccan is a neighborhood of the Indian city of Hyderabad. The word also describes the middle and south of India, which is dominated by the Deccan Plateau. Mujahedeen is the commonly used Arabic word for holy fighters.

But security experts drew a blank on any such organization. Sajjan Gohel, a security expert in London, called it a “front name” and said the group was “nonexistent.”

An Indian security official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to be identified said the name suggested ties to a group called Indian Mujahedeen, which has been implicated in a string of bombing attacks in India killing about 200 people this year alone.

On Sept. 15, an e-mail message published in Indian newspapers and said to have been sent by representatives of Indian Mujahedeen threatened potential “deadly attacks” in Mumbai. The message warned counterterrorism officials in the city that “you are already on our hit-list and this time very, very seriously.”

Several high-ranking law enforcement officials, including the chief of the antiterrorism squad and a commissioner of police, were, indeed, reported killed in the attacks in Mumbai.

With relations long strained between India and Pakistan, particularly over the disputed territory of Kashmir, suspicions turned toward Al Qauda, or Pakistani militant backing. The Indian security official said the attackers likely had ties to Lashkar-e-Taiba, a guerrilla group run by Pakistani intelligence in the conflict with India in the disputed territory of Kashmir. On Thursday, the group denied involved in the Mumbai attacks. India also blamed Lashkar-e-Taiba for a suicide assault on its Parliament by gunmen in December 2001 that led to a perilous military standoff with Pakistan.

The Indian official also suggested the foot-soldiers in the attack might have emerged from an outlawed militant group of Islamic students. Photographs from security cameras showed some youthful attackers carrying assault rifles and smiling as they began the operation.

Christine Fair, senior political scientist and a South Asia expert at the RAND Corporation, was careful to say that the identity of the terrorists could not yet be known. But she pointed to India’s domestic problems, and long tensions between Hindus, who make up about 80 percent of India’s population of 1.13 billion, and Muslims, who make up 13.4 percent.

“There are a lot of very, very angry Muslims in India,” Ms. Fair said. “The economic disparities are startling and India has been very slow to publicly embrace its rising Muslim problem. You cannot put lipstick on this pig. This is a major domestic political challenge for India.

“The public political face of India says, ‘Our Muslims have not been radicalized,’ she said. “But the Indian intelligence apparatus knows that’s not true. India’s Muslim communities are being sucked into the global landscape of Islamist jihad.”

“Indians will have a strong incentive to link this to Al Qaeda,” she said. “But this is a domestic issue. This is not India’s 9/11.”

Alan Cowell reported from Paris, and Souad Mekhennet from Frankfurt. Mark McDonald contributed reporting from Hong Kong, and Salman Masood from Islamabad, Pakistan.

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« Reply #6 on: Nov 28, 2008 08:20 AM »

Mumbai attacks show method amid madness

By Sumantra Bose
London School of Economics

India's cities are no strangers to indiscriminate terror attacks. Such attacks have occurred regularly, and with steadily increasing frequency, in recent years.

Mumbai, India's financial capital, has been targeted before.

In March 1993, a series of car bombs were detonated at public landmarks across the city, including the stock exchange, killing 257 people.

Those attacks, in which the city's underworld played a key role, followed Hindu-Muslim violence in the city during December 1992 and January 1993. Working-class Muslims were the principal victims, often shot at point-blank range by members of the city's police force.

In July 2006, a series of bombs planted on Mumbai's commuter train network killed 183 people.

Other Indian cities have been regularly targeted as well, particularly Delhi, the capital.

In October 2005 bombs exploded in crowded Delhi markets on the eve of the festive day Diwali, the festival of lights. More than 60 people were killed.

Most recently, in July 2008, bombs exploded at a number of congested public locations in Ahmedabad, the capital of the western state of Gujarat.

India's Parliament was attacked in 2001, leaving nine people dead.

Gujarat, one of India's most prosperous states, saw large-scale killings of Muslims in 2002 after an arson attack on a train in the state killed 59 Hindu nationalist activists.

More than 50 people were killed in the Ahmedabad bombings.

A previously unknown group, the Indian Mujahideen, claimed responsibility.

The Ahmedabad attacks were particularly vicious in that bombs were detonated outside the emergency facilities of city hospitals just as people injured in other explosions were being brought in by ambulances.

Frontal assault

So what is new about Mumbai, November 2008?

The obvious novelty is the use of frontal assault tactics instead of timed explosive devices.

This is new in the urban Indian context. There was one notable exception - an attack by a five-man squad armed with rifles and grenades on India's Parliament in New Delhi in December 2001.

The attackers were narrowly prevented by alert staff from gaining access to the building, where hundreds of parliamentarians and ministers were attending a session.

They were gunned down near the entrance by security personnel after an hour-long battle.
Nine guards and parliament stewards also died.

This attack led to the crisis of 2002 between India and Pakistan.

The Indian government blamed Pakistani religious radicals, and embarked on a major military build-up on the border with Pakistan, to which Pakistan responded with its own mobilisation.

The stand-off eventually wound down later in 2002 after months of tension and brinkmanship.

But frontal assaults, usually carried out by two-man teams firing semi-automatic rifles and lobbing grenades, were the favoured tactic of the insurgency in Indian-administered Kashmir between 1999 and 2003.

Fidayeen technique

Scores of such attacks were carried out by "fidayeen" (literally "death-defying") squads in Indian-administered Kashmir during that period.

Ahmedabad saw rioting after the Gujarat killings in 2002

In many instances, these attacks led to confrontations lasting anywhere between 24 and 72 hours between the raiders and security forces, who were often constrained by the presence of trapped civilians.

Most of the locations targeted were Indian military and police installations in the Kashmir Valley, particularly in the regional capital Srinagar.

But some attacks targeted civilians, especially in and around the Hindu-majority city of Jammu, in the southern part of Indian-administered Kashmir.

The perpetrators were not members of the main homegrown Kashmiri insurgent group, the Hizb-ul Mujahideen ("Warriors of the Faith").

The fidayeen technique - a rudimentary form of "shock and awe" warfare - was introduced into Kashmir by Pakistani radical organisations that entered the Kashmir insurgency from the mid-1990s onwards.

The large majority of fidayeen attacks in Kashmir were perpetrated by one such organisation, the Lashkar-e-Toiba, headquartered in Pakistan and founded and led by Pakistani religious radicals.

The Lashkar-e Toiba did over time recruit a handful of local Kashmiris as fidayeen cadre, but most of the attackers were Pakistani nationals who had crossed into Indian-administered Kashmir.

Fidayeen attacks have died down in Kashmir since India-Pakistan relations thawed from 2004 onward.

But the deployment of exactly the same tactic in central Mumbai shows that this technique has now found a new and even more dangerous theatre in which to operate.


The tactic is thus not without precedent, but the mayhem in Mumbai may nonetheless mark a new chapter in the evolution of urban terrorism in India.

Bombs planted in markets and on commuter trains kill and maim working-class and middle-class Indians.

The gunmen who attacked two luxury hotels, and a fashionable cafe frequented by visiting Westerners, have brought the "war" - as they see it - to India's elite class, and to affluent Westerners living in or visiting India's most cosmopolitan city.

If reports that the gunmen specifically looked for American and British citizens to take hostage are true, it would suggest that this terrorist spectacular had little to do with the prejudice and discrimination many Muslims do encounter in India.
It is tempting to label the attackers as "crazies". But such a dismissive appellation may be misplaced.

It is more than likely that the masterminds are seasoned operatives and that the foot-soldiers, young as they may have been, had undergone rigorous training for months, perhaps years.

The attacks also show every sign of having been designed to maximise media attention on a global scale.
In other words, there is a method to the madness.

Sumantra Bose is Professor of International and Comparative Politics at the London School of Economics. He is the author of Contested Lands: Israel-Palestine, Kashmir, Bosnia, Cyprus, and Sri Lanka, published by Harvard University Press.
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 29, 2008 08:14 AM »

Part of me hopes they decide the attacks had Pakistani links because I know how bad it could get for Muslims in India if they decide it was militants based in India..I say 'they decide' because India is so messed up, the authorities will only prove what they want to prove and use it to fulfil their own ends.




Indian officials have said the siege at Mumbai's Taj Mahal hotel is over, after the last few militants were killed.

Police commissioner Hassan Gafoor said the hotel was now under their control. "All combat operations are over. All the terrorists have been killed."

Commandos began a new assault early on Saturday as fighting that has claimed at least 195 lives entered a third day.

Commando chief JK Dutt told media three militants had been killed but his men still had to check all the hotel rooms.

Mr Dutt, head of the elite National Security Guards commando force, said a body seen thrown out of a window of the landmark hotel was that of one of the militants, Reuters reports.

Speaking to media outside the hotel, he appealed for any guests still hiding in the building to make their presence known and warned that small explosions might be heard as the clearing operation continued.

On Friday, almost 100 people were rescued from a second hotel, and six bodies were found at a Jewish centre.

India's foreign minister has said "elements with links to Pakistan" were involved in the attacks on Mumbai.

However, his Pakistani counterpart has urged India not to bring politics into the issue, saying "we should join hands to defeat the enemy".

'Ultimate sacrifice'

Extremely heavy and sustained gunfire was heard inside the Taj Mahal Palace hotel shortly before 0730 (0200 GMT) on Saturday, as soldiers rushed into the lobby in a bid to flush out the remaining few gunmen.

Firefighters then worked to contain fierce flames and thick smoke that billowed from the building's lower floors.
The BBC's Mark Dummett at the scene says the search is now on for any surviving militants who may be hiding in the hotel's 560-odd rooms, but security officials say they think the operation is now over.

All eyes will now be on India's investigation of the attacks, our correspondent says, with questions already being asked about the failure of its intelligence agencies to uncover the plans.

The commandos suspect that the militants knew the hotel well because they were very mobile during the course of the siege, he says, making it extremely difficult for security forces to secure an area in order to evacuate guests.

Indian media have reported that one of the militants worked as a chef for 10 months at the hotel.

Some have described this as India's 9/11, our correspondent adds, and people in India now want answers as to who is responsible.

Blasts had rung out for most of Friday after truckloads of commandos entered the premises.

A journalist and bystander outside the hotel were taken to hospital after being hit by shrapnel.

Indian commandos who managed to enter other parts of the Taj say they found at least 30 bodies in one hall.

Fighting appears to have ended at the other key flashpoints in Mumbai, chief among them the Oberoi-Trident hotel - where nearly 100 people were rescued and 24 bodies were found earlier on Friday.

But at Nariman House, the Mumbai base of Chabad-Lubavitch, a New York-based orthodox Jewish organisation, the news was grim.

The organisation confirmed that Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg, 29, had been killed alongside his wife, Rivka. Their two-year-old son survived.

The Holtzbergs had moved to India in 2003 from New York to run the Mumbai branch of the outreach organisation, which offers services and hospitality to Jewish travellers.

The bodies were removed from the building early on Saturday.

The stand-offs began late on Wednesday when gunmen armed with automatic weapons and grenades opened fire indiscriminately on crowds at a major railway station, the two hotels, the Jewish centre, a hospital and a cafe frequented by foreigners.

Indian media have reported that at least 154 people have been killed since Wednesday, with around 370 injured, the vast majority Indian citizens.

An Indian official said the toll could rise much higher.

At least 18 foreigners are known to have died, including victims from Germany, Japan, Canada, Australia, Italy and Singapore. One Briton, Andreas Liveras, has been killed.

A claim of responsibility for this week's attacks - the worst in India's commercial capital since nearly 200 people were killed in a series of bombings in 2006 - has been made by a previously unknown group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen.

However, most intelligence officials are keeping an open mind as the attacks have thrown up conflicting clues, BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner says.


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« Reply #8 on: Nov 29, 2008 07:03 PM »


I totally do not hope that desertrose. They basically are already deciding that and if you go the facebook group the indians are already talking about bombing pakistan, bombing mosques ect ect
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« Reply #9 on: Nov 29, 2008 11:04 PM »

India ends Mumbai rampage after 60 hours, 195 dead

By RAMOLA TALWAR BADAM, Associated Press Writers Ramola Talwar Badam, Associated Press Writers   – 37 mins ago

MUMBAI, India – It took just 10 young men armed with rifles and grenades to terrorize this city of 18 million and turn its postcard-perfect icons into battlefields until security forces ended one of the deadliest attacks in India's history early Saturday.

After the final siege at the luxury Taj Mahal hotel, adoring crowds surrounded six buses carrying weary, unshaven commandos dressed in black fatigues, shaking their hands and giving them flowers. One of the commandos said he had been awake for nearly 60 hours since the assault began Wednesday. Another sat sipping a bottle of water and holding a pink rose.

"What happened is disgusting," said Suresh Thakkar, 59, who reopened his clothing store behind the hotel Saturday for the first time since the attacks. "It will be harder to recover, but we will recover. Bombay people have a lot of spirit and courage."

The bloody rampage carried out by suspected Muslim militants at 10 sites across Mumbai, the nation's financial capital formerly known as Bombay, killed at least 195 people and wounded 295. Among the dead were 18 foreigners, including six Americans.

Orange flames and dark smoke engulfed the Taj Mahal after dawn Saturday as Indian forces killed the last three militants with grenades and gunfire. Hours after the fire fight, parts of the landmark hotel were in shambles, its corner facade charred black and a red carpet leading to double doors littered with broken glass.

"Suddenly no one feels safe or secure," said Joe Sequeira, the manager of a popular restaurant near the Oberoi hotel, another site targeted in the attacks. "It will take time. People are scared but they will realize it's no use being scared and sitting at home."

While soldiers scoured the massive 565-room Taj Mahal for any remaining captives and defused booby traps, a city known for its resilience in the face of tragedy began mourning and cremating its dead. At least 20 killed in the fighting were members of security forces.

A previously unknown Muslim group called Deccan Mujahideen — a name suggesting origins inside India — has claimed responsibility. But Indian officials said the sole surviving gunman, now in custody, was from Pakistan and voiced suspicions of their volatile neighbor. Nine other attackers were killed, they said.

Each new detail about the attackers raised more questions. Who trained the militants, who were so well prepared they carried bags of almonds to keep their energy up? What role, if any, did archrival Pakistan play in the attack? And how did so few assailants, who looked like college students, wreak so much damage?

Pakistan denied it was involved and demanded evidence for Indian charges. Islamabad has pledged to share intelligence with its rival neighbor but went back on its initial promise to send its spy chief to aid the probe, saying it would send a lower ranking official instead.

As officials pointed the finger at neighboring Pakistan, some Indians looked inward and expressed anger at their own government.

"People are worried, but the key difference is anger," said Rajesh Jain, chief executive officer at a brokerage firm, Pranav Securities. "People are worked up about the ineffectiveness of the administration. Does the government have the will, the ability to tackle the dangers we face?"

On Saturday, officials said they believed that just 10 gunmen had taken part in the attacks. The sole survivor, identified a Pakistani national, Mohammad Ajmal Qasam, was being interrogated, officials said.

The gunmen were as brazen as they were well trained, using sophisticated weapons, GPS technology and mobile and satellite phones to communicate, authorities said.

"They were constantly in touch with a foreign country," said R.R. Patil, deputy to the chief of Maharashtra state's chief, without giving further details.

"Whenever they were under a little bit of pressure they would hurl a grenade. They freely used grenades," said Dutt.

Suspicions in Indian media quickly settled on the militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba, long seen as a creation of the Pakistani intelligence service to help wage its clandestine war against India in disputed Kashmir.

A U.S. counterterrorism official said some "signatures of the attack" were consistent with Lashkar and Jaish-e-Mohammed, another group that has operated in Kashmir. Both are reported to be linked to al-Qaida.

U.S. officials were worried about a possible surge in violence between Pakistan and India — the nuclear armed rivals have fought three wars against each other, two over Kashmir — and were sending FBI agents to India to help investigate.

President George W. Bush pledged full U.S. support for the investigation, saying the killers "will not have the final word."

"As the people of the world's largest democracy recover from these attacks, they can count on the people of world's oldest democracy to stand by their side," Bush added in a brief address from the White House.

Indian security officers believe many of the gunmen may have reached the city using a black and yellow rubber dinghy found near the attack sites.

The Indian navy said it was investigating whether a trawler found drifting off the coast of Mumbai, with a bound corpse on board, was used in the attack.

The trawler, named Kuber, had been found Thursday and was brought to Mumbai, a peninsula surrounded by the Arabian Sea, said Navy spokesman Capt. Manohar Nambiar. Authorities suspect the boat had sailed from a port in the neighboring state of Gujarat.

The fighting narrowed to the Taj Mahal hotel on Friday night, hours after elite commandos stormed a Jewish center and found at least eight hostages dead Friday.

The bodies of New York Rabbi Gavriel Noach Holtzberg and his wife, Rivkah, were found at the Jewish center. Their son, Moshe, who turned 2 on Saturday, was scooped up by an employee Thursday as she fled the building. At least two Israelis and another American were also killed in the house, said Rabbi Zalman Schmotkin, a spokesman for the Chabad Lubavitch movement, which ran the center.

In Jerusalem, Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said nine bodies had been found in the center.

Among the foreigners killed in the attacks were six Americans, according to the U.S. Embassy. The dead also included Germans, Canadians, Israelis and nationals from Britain, Italy, Japan, China, Thailand, Australia and Singapore.

By Saturday night the death toll was at 195, the country's deadliest attack since 1993 serial bombings in Mumbai killed 257 people. But officials said the toll from the three days of carnage was likely to rise as more bodies were brought out of the hotels.

In the southern city of Bangalore, black clad commandos formed an honor guard for the flag-draped coffin of Maj. Sandeep Unnikrishnan, who was killed in the fighting at the Taj Mahal hotel.

"He gave up his own life to save the others," said J.K. Dutt, director general of India's elite commando unit.


Associated Press writers Ravi Nessman, Erika Kinetz and Anita Chang contributed to this report from Mumbai, and Foster Klug and Lara Jakes Jordan contributed from Washington.

The Almighty Allah says,

"When a servant thinks of Me, I am near.
When he invokes Me, I am with him.
If he reflects on Me in secret, I reply in secret,
And if he acknowledges Me in an assembly,
I acknowledge him in a far superior assembly."

- Prophet Muhammad (SAW), as reptd by Abu Huraira
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« Reply #10 on: Nov 29, 2008 11:11 PM »

The Mumbai Perpetrators Showed Combat Training

By ROBERT BAER Robert Baer   – Sat Nov 29, 12:05 am ET

Three days after the Mumbai attacks, it is unclear who is behind them. And that in itself tells a story.

Terrorism experts have been all over television and the Internet speculating on the identity of the perpetrators, more often than not attempting to divine their identity from the group's tactics. The problem is that terrorists do not follow rule books; they learn and adapt from other groups. The fact that suicide bombers did not blow themselves up in the lobbies of the Oberoi or Taj hotels does not mean they are not from al-Qaeda. (See photos of the chaos in Mumbai)

What we should be certain of, though, is that the Mumbai attackers were combat trained. You do not sustain a military assault for three days, taking only combat naps, unless you know what you are doing. You have to have been shot at before. You cannot be intimidated by flash-bang grenades, or commandos fast-roping down the side of a building. And it is almost certain that the planners of the attack understood that the only way to get into India with the amount of weapons and explosives used in the attacks was by sea - the risk of smuggling them in over land was too great.

Indulging in the same sort of speculation as the terrorism experts, I would say it's likely the attackers picked up their combat experience in Afghanistan. They could have come out of Iraq as well, but Mumbai seems a little far afield for Iraqis. Again, at this point none of this is certain. We may find out the killers were Hindu extremists, or Tamil separatists.

There are two lessons we should be taking away from Mumbai. The first is that all large cities are vulnerable to attack. Even if it doubled the size of its police force, there is no way New York City could could ever protect its hotels, schools or other public buildings from attacks of this type, short of turning them into fortresses. There is no way for the NYPD to prevent a car bombing on Wall Street, sending the stock market into an even worse plunge, or a single suicide bomber from blowing himself up in the subway. Plans are available on the Internet for making bombs like these with ingredients available in hardware stores.

The second reminder we should take from Mumbai is that the longer the wars go on in Iraq and Afghanistan, the more combat-experienced men there will be available to planners of terror attacks. And we should count on the veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan going global - there is no reason they could not blend into the waves of immigrants crossing the Mediterranean from Northern Africa to Europe every day.

The best answer to the attack on Mumbai is a measured one: If it turns out the attackers came from Pakistan, they are very unlikely to have been sent by that country's government. So the last thing India should do is confront the government of Pakistan, or isolate it. That would only strengthen the hand of the extremists.

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The Almighty Allah says,

"When a servant thinks of Me, I am near.
When he invokes Me, I am with him.
If he reflects on Me in secret, I reply in secret,
And if he acknowledges Me in an assembly,
I acknowledge him in a far superior assembly."

- Prophet Muhammad (SAW), as reptd by Abu Huraira
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« Reply #11 on: Nov 30, 2008 11:05 AM »

It's really sad.  It doesn't even make any sense.  What was the purpose of holding up an entire city, simply to instill fear amongst innocent civilians, only to die at the end of the day.  If it's Jihaad these guys are looking for, why don't they read up on its rules. 

I for one hope that the link to Pakistan is weak.  It's not a nationalistic sentiment in the slightest - but Pakistan isn't doing so hot.  It is already the subject of intense scrutiny - any screwups that the west can manipulate and it will turn into the next Iraq. We have an unstable and so far pretty incompetent government in power (I'm sort of embarrassed by it, to be honest).  We also have the whole Waziristan issue - which is far more complex than CNN makes it out to be.
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 30, 2008 03:20 PM »


But isn't the likelihood of India bombing Pakistan much less than Hindus/Sikhs/etc. carrying out retaliatory attacks on innocent Muslims, aided and abetted by the corrupt police? I don't's a lose/lose situation either way for Muslims, and we probably will never know the truth about the origins of the attacks - sooo many conspiracy theories going around in my head at the moment  faint

« Reply #13 on: Dec 03, 2008 07:41 AM »

Reality behind these attacks by Analyst Zaid Hamid.
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« Reply #14 on: Dec 04, 2008 12:42 AM »

salaam UN there are so many diff videos on that site. Can you sum up what you learned from that site for us?
« Reply #15 on: Dec 04, 2008 04:57 AM »

salaam UN there are so many diff videos on that site. Can you sum up what you learned from that site for us?

Sorry sister it is difficult for me to do that beacuse i may end up trivializing the point.

At least see following videos. I hope you can understand urdu.

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« Reply #16 on: Dec 04, 2008 04:52 PM »

Is Pakistan to Blame?
Mumbai Terror Attacks

Watch Indian television and Pakistan is decidedly the culprit of the atrocious 26/11 attacks in Mumbai.  Star News projects cartoon images of Muslim terrorists receiving training in Pakistan.  Since 9/11 Bollywood has been successfully perpetuating the image of Muslims as terror-mongers and Star News clips reinforce the stereotype.  Other channels, such as NDTV, however, are less jingoistic and their very balanced Group Editor, Barkha Dutt, is doing her best to assuage knee-jerk reactions against both Muslims within India (about 14% of India’s population) and calls for war on Pakistan.  But even on her show, guest panellist Simi Garewal, who is a media personality in her own right and hosts a talk show that has previously enjoyed popularity in Pakistan, sounds worse than Donald Rumsfeld when she says, “We need to carpet bomb Pakistan.  Shock and awe.  That is why America has not had an attack since 2001.  That is what we need to do.”

Pakistani television channels, initially sympathetic, soon turned reactionary and hostile.  Some of the more hawkish anchors are telecasting scenes from the Gujarat massacre of Muslims in 2002, when thousands were killed in communal violence.  But other, more balanced anchors are asking more relevant questions.  Given the evidence that we have thus far, is Pakistan really to blame?

The fact that the Indian government is accusing Pakistan is taken with a grain of salt as this is not the first time the Indian government has blamed Pakistan, only to find later that Pakistan had nothing to do with the violence it was being accused of.  Interestingly, four times previously the Indian government falsely accused Lashkare Taiba directly as the organization sponsoring violent incidents in India, and Pakistan indirectly for harbouring the militant group, although Pakistan officially banned the outfit in 2002. 

In each of the incidents, namely, the Chattisinghpura massacre, the attack on the Indian Parliament on 13 December 2001, the Malagaon blasts and the Samjhota Express incident, investigations were either refused or revealed that neither Lashkare Taiba nor Pakistan but groups from within India were responsible.  In the Chattisinghpura incident, for example, on 20 March 2000, one day before President Bill Clinton was due to arrive in India, 35 Sikhs were killed in the village of Chattisinghpura.  It was said that about 15 uniformed men belonging to Lashkare Taiba and trained in Pakistan were responsible.  Five days later, five men were killed by paramilitary forces in a village called Pathribal, claiming that the “foreign militants” responsible for the Sikh massacre had been found and duly eliminated.  When local village people protested, investigations began.  When the final results of the investigation were made public, it was found that local police was responsible for the massacre of the Sikhs.

The Samjhota Express incident is more disconcerting, and one that Pakistanis remember bitterly.  On 18 February 2007, two bombs went off near the Indian city of Panipat on the Samjhota Express twice-weekly train between Lahore and Delhi, initiated as its name suggests (Samjhota means Agreement in both Hindi and Urdu) to enhance cordial relations between the two countries.  The terrorist attack, which killed 68 (mostly Pakistanis) and injured many others was blamed once again on Lashkare Taiba.  Indian authorities claimed that the alleged perpetrator was named Rana Shaukat Ali and a photograph of the terrorist was provided.  Four months later, investigations revealed that neither Rana nor Lashkare Taiba but a serving lieutenant colonel of the Indian army, Lt. Col. Purohit was responsible for the attack.  Purohit, it was found, had links with Hindu militant groups and provided training to extremists.

For Pakistan, the most troubling aspect of the 26 November 2008 terror attacks in Mumbai is the fact that the three brave men who had been tasked with finalizing the findings of both the Samjhota Express incident and the Malegaon blasts linking Lt. Col. Purohit conclusively to the terrorist attacks were all killed.  Mr. Hemant Karkare, in charge of the investigation, was one of the first people shot by the terrorists, followed by DIG Ashok Kale and encounter specialist Vijay Salazar.

If this is a coincidence, it is definitely a godsend for the extremist Hindu groups and the right-wing BJP, waiting to unseat the Congress government in the upcoming elections.  But many in Pakistan suspect something more sinister may be involved.

It is alleged that the perpetrators of the 26/11 violence entered Mumbai by sea and arrived by trawlers from Karachi.  Karachi is 500 nautical miles from Mumbai; not an easy distance to cover in a trawler.  Even if one were to assume that this was the case, India has twenty-one separate radar systems that monitor the coastal line between Karachi and Mumbai.  More importantly, Sir Creek is the un-demarcated boundary along the Arabian Sea and the Rann of Kutch, straddling Pakistan’s Sindh province and the Indian state of Gujarat.  This is both an international border and a source of dispute between India and Pakistan.  The 1965 war between the two nations began at the Rann of Kutch. 

In August 1999, a Pakistani surveillance aircraft was shot down by the Indian Air Force in the Rann of Katch.  The area is heavily patrolled.  How the trawler made it all the way to Mumbai without being detected is a mystery, especially since fishermen on both sides of the border, both Indian and Pakistani, regularly find themselves apprehended as they mistakenly cross over into hostile territory.  Every year, both countries arrest hundreds of fishermen for illegal intrusion.  Fishermen complain that they don’t know whose side they are on because of the dispute.  Every time Pakistan and India decide to re-start their peace process, one of the first measures taken is the release of the poor fishermen, who are caught and detained, through no fault of their own, their boats confiscated upon arrest.

But somehow the trawler dodged all patrols and made it all the way to Mumbai.  Regular procedure for boats and ships docking at Mumbai entails thorough checks, but it appears that the terrorist trawler was able to evade that as well. 

Too many questions remain.  Too few answers are being given.  India and Pakistan have an equal interest in finding out who is behind this terrible mayhem that has clutched Mumbai.  The investigation must be thorough and conducted without prematurely blaming any organization or country.  India and Pakistan must root out all those who would like to see terror grip the region and derail peace processes, regardless of whether they are Hindu or Muslim.

Ayesha Ijaz Khan is a London-based lawyer and political commentator and can be contacted via her website

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