// Naming a Child is the Fathers Right????
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blackrose
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« Reply #25 on: Dec 18, 2008 09:39 PM »

Brother I did NOT  say the Qur'an undermines women!!!! Im saying that your personal reasoning does!
 And you have NOT provided any proof of your reasoning that you stated as to why naming is the fathers right.

husband are given the role of leadership bc they provide for women. This is a duty, it is not a priveledge that they are given. It has absolutely nothing to do with naming the child.

IF it what you said was true that men get to name the child bc he provides money then it would be also their right to decide if they want a child. But it is not, Islamically to have a child has to be a mutual decision.

woman play a major and time consuming role with the children alot more than men do. They carry them for nine months and then spend all their time for the childs care.


So brother do not ACCUSE me of undermining or contradicting Qur'an . The Qur'an does not discuss this specific issue.
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« Reply #26 on: Dec 19, 2008 12:35 PM »

salam


hahaha, if the naming of children is based solely on financial provision, then heck I'm allowed to name all my ex inlaws children since we got married up till now, and apparently I have the right as I have always been sole financial provider for my girls and ex whilst he paid for his grilfriends. Excellent I retained my right in at least on form during marriage!!!!!


I would think most husbands are loving and compassionate and melt on sight of their newborn and would not dream of objecting to their fragile wives desire of naming the child she worked so hard to bring into the world. At least I would hope so.

Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #27 on: Dec 19, 2008 02:23 PM »

 astaghfirullah astaghfirullah astaghfirullah

shareislam
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« Reply #28 on: Dec 20, 2008 03:31 AM »

Salam Alaikum
If there is a disagreement between spouses (in general), then isn't ultimately the husband the one who decides? There still seems to be no evidence posted on this thread directly from the Quran or Sunnah that backs up this claim that the naming is specifically the husband's "right". There is however this opinion from this honorable alim, who while not without fault, certainly knows more than myself, so let's look at his wording:  "but it is preferred to consult the mother in the matter, in order to make her happy and soften her heart" AND "It is legislated for both of them to choose good names and refrain from names which are disliked..."
So this ruling is certainly NOT saying that the women has no say in this whatsoever. Again, it seems that we are arguing a greater power struggle between genders that exists both in society and unfortunately in our individual marriages.
Unfortunately, there are husbands who will do whatever they like without keeping their wives feelings in mind. As we know this is not Islamic behavior and is not from the sunnah of our dearest Prophet saw.
JMHO
Stephanie
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« Reply #29 on: Dec 20, 2008 11:03 AM »

I think the point is that if there is a conflict of interest, then it's the father's right.  Maybe they take into account that a woman's brain turns to mush during and after pregnancy.

You know.... like if the woman says that she wants to name her son after a vegetable (only the finest, of course ... broccoli maybe, or zuchini), and the husband thinks it's better to stick to something like Abdullah, then I guess he makes more sense, and should be allowed to veto.  If the situation is reversed, then he will always have to a) hear it from his wife, b) hear it from his child, c) be accountable for it for all of eternity.  I really don't think new fathers' brain turns to mush though.

If the conflict is between two Islamic names (maybe Abdullah and Ibrahim??) I don't see why the mother would have a huuuuuuge problem with his choice.  And vice versa actually - I don't see why the husband would have a huge problem, either.  In any case, one of them will have to compromise.

I have only known one situation in which the the husband abused his right in naming his kids... he had four daughters, and he named them all after hollywood movie actresses (no, i'm not joking).  His wife cried a lot (they had other problems).  The daughters cried too (again, other problems) and two of his daughters eventually changed their names when they entered their teenage years. 

Imagine having your whole family hate you forever - I don't think any dad would ever want that.

Again, if this is an argument based on "matter of principle" and hypothetical scenarios, then there is no winning, because everyone's principles are different.

Wasalaam.

(P.S. don't say that it's insulting to even suggest that a woman's brain doesn't turn to mush. i think they even have scientific proof that a woman's brain shrinks in her last trimester and during delivery)
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« Reply #30 on: Dec 20, 2008 02:36 PM »

salam

I would have thought names are decided well before the child is born.

I wouldn't dispute the brain turning to mush argument, add that to physical and mental exhaustion and a body in need of serious healing, I at least was not up to huge arguments after having my girls, I would have consented to anything for a quiet life.

I knew a girl named after a bollywood actress, she was called Nargis, was absolutely beautiful, and like the actress, she ended up dying of cancer...... a good name after a person of exemplary character is my way of choosing names.

But I utterly agree with Sr Shareislam on this subject.


Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #31 on: Dec 20, 2008 05:46 PM »

Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

I think the post of Sr. Stephanie (shareislam), from its beginning to the end, is right on the money with regards to this entire thread.  May Allah reward you sister, and increase you in wisdom.

I recommend all of you to re-read what she wrote, and reflect on it:

Quote
If there is a disagreement between spouses (in general), then isn't ultimately the husband the one who decides? There still seems to be no evidence posted on this thread directly from the Quran or Sunnah that backs up this claim that the naming is specifically the husband's "right". There is however this opinion from this honorable alim, who while not without fault, certainly knows more than myself, so let's look at his wording:  "but it is preferred to consult the mother in the matter, in order to make her happy and soften her heart" AND "It is legislated for both of them to choose good names and refrain from names which are disliked..."
So this ruling is certainly NOT saying that the women has no say in this whatsoever. Again, it seems that we are arguing a greater power struggle between genders that exists both in society and unfortunately in our individual marriages.
Unfortunately, there are husbands who will do whatever they like without keeping their wives feelings in mind. As we know this is not Islamic behavior and is not from the sunnah of our dearest Prophet saw.

Wassalamu alaykum.

“By Allah, if Muhammad b. Idris did not know with certainty that he will see his Lord in the afterlife, he would not have worshipped him in this life!” (Muhammad b. Idris al-Shafi'i)
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« Reply #32 on: Dec 20, 2008 06:09 PM »

haahha Just one honestly during pregnancy tom cruise just gave this advice. 'just say yes to her' ' do what she wants'

hmm I really dont remember picking out any weird name, only the name that Ive liked since I was little.

I really wanted it but It was ok with me. I wasnt going to make a big deal. I tried my best. It just so happens my husband liked the name but my inlaws didnt so my husband said since they dont we arent going to use it. I said ok, was patient and alhumdulilah we found a name that everyone liked.

You know how when we are kids/teenagers girls usually love to decide what kind of names they will give their child. Im not sure if boys do the same.

I agree shareislam with your post.  good points!

The only thing is when someone says 'right' it reminds me how women have the 'right' not to work. so lets say the husband is not bringing enough money home and he asks her to work and she says no. well its her right, right. so if its the husbands 'right' to name the kid and he doesnt want to consult with her then can we blame him bc it is his right.

well they may be two diff situations.. i dont  know .. but this is what comes to mind.

Again I really think many do not know that it is specifically the husbands right. The reason I was even hurt about what my mother n law said was because I thought it was mine and my husbands 'right' to decide. If he had picked and I didnt like it, I think I would have told him that Im the mother so its my right also to like the name in my ignorance.
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« Reply #33 on: Dec 20, 2008 09:06 PM »

Dear Sheikh! Please tell me about naming the child; who has this right; father or mother? Also, can we name the child after the name of our beloved Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him? Jazakum Allah khayran.
 
  
 
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Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.


In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.


Dear questioner, we would like to express our deep appreciation for the great confidence you repose in us as well as your keenness to know the teachings of Islam, and we implore Allah Almighty to help us all serve His cause and render our work for His Sake.



In fact you have raised two issues regarding naming children. First, which one of the parents has the right to name the children? Second, the ruling on naming children after the Prophet's name.


As regards the first issue, we'd like to state that children are a trust in the hands of parents. Parents, therefore, have a duty to receive this divine gift with a true sense of gratitude and do everything at their disposal to provide the best nurturing. It is one of the duties of parents towards their children that they choose good names for them. Parents should be keen to choose good names for their children that comply with the guidelines set by Shari`ah and avoid differences on this issue. They should consult each other and reach an agreement rather than each one of them insists on his own choice. However, if they disagree then they should choose the best of the two names which is nearer to the Shari`ah rulings regarding choosing names. If the two names are equal in this regard, then the father is the one who has the right to give the name.



In his book, Tarbiyat al-Awlad fi al-Islam [trans. Child Education in Islam] Dr. `Abdullah Nasih `Ulwan, professor of the Qur’anic exegesis at King Abdul Aziz University, states:



“In case the parents have different opinions regarding the naming of the child, then the right to name the child is given to the father. The Qur’an stated that the child carries the name of the father not that of the mother. Almighty says: “Call them after their fathers that is more equitable in the reckoning of Allah.”(Al-Ahzab: 5)



The Prophet’s hadiths in this regard show that the right to name the child is given to the father, such as the hadith related by Muslim in which the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) says: “I was blessed with a son tonight and I named him after my great ancestor Ibrahim.”



But it must be stressed here that in using this right, the father or any other person is not entitled to give the child an ugly name, as 'A`war' (one-eyed) or 'A`raj' (lame) or similar names. It is permissible, even recommendable, to nickname the child."

As for the second issue you raised, scholars agree that it is permissible to name one's male child after the name of the Prophet. Elaborating on this, Dr. `Abdullah Nasih `Ulwan writes:

"Scholars have unanimously agreed that it is permissible that naming children after the Prophet's name. Jabir ibn `Abdullah reported: A child was born to one of the persons amongst us and he decided to give him the name of Muhammad. We said: We will not allow you to give the name after the name of Allah's Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) until you ask him (the Prophet). So he (that person) came and said (to the Prophet): "A child was born in my house and I wanted to give him the name (of Muhammad) after the name of Allah's Messenger, whereas my people did not allow me that I should name him after that (sacred) name until I have asked Allah's Messenger in this connection." Whereupon he (the Prophet) said: "Give him the name after my name, but do not call him by my kunyah (the Prophet's nickname 'Abu Al-Qasim'), for I have been sent as a Qasim as I distribute amongst you." (Reported by Muslim)



As to calling children after the Prophet's kunyah scholars hold different views on this matter:

1- The first opinion maintains that it’s absolutely reprehensive act. This view is adopted by Ash-Shaf`i.

2- The second opinion is that of Imam Malik, who considers nicknaming a child after the Prophet’s kunyah as something absolutely permissible. When asked about naming a child “Muhammad” and giving him “Abu al-Qasim” as a nickname, Imam Malik said: “This is not prohibited and I do not see any harm in doing that.”

3- The third opinion maintains that having either of the two (the Prophet’s Name and Kunyah) is permissible, but combining both name and nickname is not allowed.

4- The fourth opinion states that the prohibition of having the Prophet’s Kunyah is confined to the Prophet’s lifetime but it is allowed after his death.

This last opinion may be the preponderant one. So, it is permissible to name someone after the Prophet’s name and kunyah, for evading confusion between the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and the person who is being called. But after the Prophet’s death the problem of confusion will not emerge.”

Based on, Dr. `Abdullah Nasih `Ulwan, Child Education in Islam, published by Dar Al Salam for Printing, Publishing, Distribution and Translation, Cairo, Egypt.


Be merciful to those on earth, and the One in the Heavens will be merciful to you.
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« Reply #34 on: Dec 22, 2008 07:21 PM »

Quote
really don't think new fathers' brain turns to mush

His brain may not turn to mush, because he is a mush lol
and its evident of him arguing/fighting over who names the child and what,
which is so immature!


"...Surely my prayer and my sacrifice, my life and my death are for Allah, the Lord of the Worlds..." (Qur'an, 6:162)
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« Reply #35 on: Dec 22, 2008 08:57 PM »

salam

I think Br. Abdurahman's last post explained the reasoning beautifully, it makes sense to me at least.

Am however very curious, do husbands who personify the sunnah standard of husband really exist?



Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #36 on: Dec 23, 2008 02:37 AM »

When I had my daughter, I picked out several  names that wer vetoed by my husband. I also vetoed several names picked by him. My husband also vetoed several names suggested by my father. I also chose to ignore the names suggested by his family.

We are very happy with the name my daughter has. A baby girl born on the same day as my daughter among our relatives, all the way across on the other side of the world, was named by my father.

My brother-in-law had a son, and the poor baby's name kept changing up until 4 months. Ridiculous, huh?! This i guess is only possible in Pakistan. The entire family, even family that they see once in a blue moon, had a suggestion and a big fight over it. It was ridiculous. Finally, the mother had had enough and let everyone know that it was her child and she was going to name it and to stay out her life. This baby went through 6 names before being named Suhail.

My mom's dad, God bless his soul, named many of the kids in his neighborhood and most practically everyone in his family. His former students would also ask him to name their child.
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