// Have I missed something?
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timbuktu
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« on: Jan 04, 2009 08:31 PM »


peace be upon you

Reasearching for my novel I came across an article on Baptism in wikipedia. It same something for Ghusul and wudu, too. This is what caught my eye:

Quote
washing before daily prayers is essential and is called Wudu. Muslims believe no one should approach God in prayer, before first asking God to forgive them their sins. Formal prayers are offered five times per day. While washing, one prays to God asking for forgiveness of the sins committed throughout the day, whether intentional or unintentional. This is a Muslim's way of reminding him/herself that the goal of this life is to please God, and to pray to attain His forgiveness and grace.

Please look at the bold in the quotes and tell me if it is right.

Thanks
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« Reply #1 on: Jan 05, 2009 03:21 AM »

Here is a good book that will anwser all of your question about prayer it is called
A Summary Of Islamic Jurispruddence Volume 1 and Volume 2

My Allah guide my son to the righteous path
Mohammed AbdulMaged Elsayed 10/19/08 2months and three weeks
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« Reply #2 on: Jan 05, 2009 08:22 AM »

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While washing, one prays to God asking for forgiveness of the sins committed throughout the day, whether intentional or unintentional. This is a Muslim's way of reminding him/herself that the goal of this life is to please God, and to pray to attain His forgiveness and grace.

Hmm interesting. As with all articles with wikipedia I'm sure it's made up of many people's edits and quotes.

In wudu we are not actually making any "specific prayer asking for forgiveness". The only thing we say upon starting would be the bismillah and at the end we reaffirm the shahadah and then there's that dua where we ask Allah to make us of the repentant (tawwabeen) and of those who are purified (mutahhareen). But there are things that describe how praying is like 'washing in a river 5 times a day and it removes our sins' and how the washed parts of wudu will be nur on the day of j and will help guide us (symbolic metaphors). I just don't like how it's worded there because we aren't actually making that specific prayer there while making wudu. Asking for forgiveness for sins committed throughout the day intentional or unintentional should be an active act -- like making a specific dua or a movement of the heart for repentance of sins. We shouldn't just like believe that if we just make wudu it's the same as asking for forgiveness for sins. Someone might think that all they have to do is make wudu all the time and that it's "implied" when a sincere tawbah has more conditions that need to be fulfilled.

And I wonder whether this way of saying it implies that the act of washing/wudu is enough or does it by must have to be coupled with the actual prayer to have benefit. This could be an interesting question to explore with scholars.

Then in the second statement that wudu reminds us that the goal of this life is to please God and pray for forgiveness and grace...I guess that could be true for someone. That's not really what comes to mind when I make wudu? but it's certainly part of our "intention" and indeed the "purpose".

I guess it's a good basic explanation for someone who is not Muslim, but it's like one of those things where we're explaining it out of it's own framework. Like when we say salah is prayer to christians but it really isn't, it's a whole other concept.


timbuktu
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« Reply #3 on: Jan 05, 2009 09:30 AM »

peace be upon you

Most of the time my intentions have been simply implied.

I start with bismillah. It is implied in the making of wudu that I am purifying myself. I guess if I were to take time and reflect on the act of making wudu, I would be able to concentrate on the Salah or the reading of the Quran.

When I hear the adhan, I automatically answer it, unless it is not clear, and then I make the masnoon dua. It is a reflex action now. Does it mean I am doing it without thought or understanding?

Similarly, when I stand up for Salah, I already "know" without thninking what Salah I am going to offer and how many rakaahs. I do not stand and go through in my head that this is that particular time and I have to offer so many rakaahs of Sunnah and so many of Fard. Does that make my Salah invalid?

There are imperfections all right in my Salaah. Of late I keep forgetting how many rakaahs I have offered, but that does not have to do with remembering at the start of the Salaah.

For most of my life I read the Quran silently, without even moving the lips, made the dua silently, without even moving the lips. And my duas have been answered.

I wonder if I have been wrong!
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« Reply #4 on: Jan 05, 2009 01:40 PM »

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Like when we say salah is prayer to christians but it really isn't, it's a whole other concept.

Will you elaborate on the difference in concepts please?

"Allah surely knows the warmth of every teardrop... " Jaihoon
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« Reply #5 on: Jan 06, 2009 09:58 AM »

Oh yes!! Ok so Salah is made up of different components, such as the physical aspect -- bowing, prostrating, standing, certain movements. These also coordinate with certain words and phrases. Certain things MUST be said at certain times, certain holy verses must be read at a certain times. These must be in a specific language and sometimes exact phrases. It is ceremonial as well as with a little leeway for what is actually said. Also there is this washing/purification aspect beforehand as mentioned as well as athaan calling to prayer, remembrance of God. There is also a very heavy intention/concentration/spiritual aspect. And at the end we include there is what I might translate as "prayer" - that is supplication. Salah also has a mosque/place/individual and congregational aspects. There is also a 'mandatory version and a voluntary one'. So can you get all that from the word "prayer"?? I don't know what would be a more accurate translation -- ceremonial-physical-spiritual-literal-non-literal-supplication-mandatorial-form-of-worship? Anyway that's what I meant... how do you explain it to someone else.. you say "prayer" and they understand the gist of it but it's not the same thing because there are no details or framework there to understand it.

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« Reply #6 on: Jan 06, 2009 01:48 PM »

Yes, this is a very good point. I have never given much thought to the differences when explaining prayer to a non Muslim audience. I spend so much time on similarities and never focused on why our differences in prayer are so incredibly spiritual- physical..." physical-spiritual-literal-non-literal-supplication-mandatorial-form-of-worship"

You are so right. This is so interesting on a personal level because I have prayed both as a Christian and as a Muslim and it was salah that first attracted me to Islam. 
How terribly unfortunate and such a disservice I have done to those I have spoken to.
Insha Allah Allah will forgive me and I will be much more cognisant in the future.

"Allah surely knows the warmth of every teardrop... " Jaihoon
timbuktu
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« Reply #7 on: Jan 06, 2009 07:30 PM »

peace be upon you

In addition, I have read that Salah incorporates all movements attributable in the Bible to worship that were performed at different times and by different people.
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« Reply #8 on: Jan 07, 2009 10:10 AM »

wsalam,

sr kathy i think you definitely did the right thing. prayer is prayer... i mean in general we are asking/worshiping God which is the meaning of salah. it would be extremely hard to spend like 2 hours on salah and try to explain everything about it to someone just starting out (and there are even 3day seminars on the subject!)...and for first timers or people who know nothing about islam it might seem too weird or a foreign concept...like 'they do these weird worshiping the ground movement things and say strange words with it'...but if you said prayer they would immediately understand what it is and be able to relate to it in their own way.

we should get a salah smiley besides a dua one huh?  bropraying



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