// triple talq in one go !!!
    Peace be upon you,
    Welcome to Madinat Al-Muslimeen, the City of the Muslims. Please feel free to visit the different hot spots around the Madina and post any discussion, articles, suggestions, comments, art, poetry, events, recipes, etc etc. Basically anything you would like to share with your sisters and brothers!! Non-muslims are also of course quite welcome to share their comments. If this is your first time here, you need to register with the city council. Once you register you have 15 days to post your mandatory introduction and then you will be upgraded to a Madina Citizen, God Willing. Please note that our city does have regulations which are listed in the city constitution. Read them carefully before moving in. P.S. - You can also post anonymously if you wish. P.S.S. - Also be sure to check out our ARCHIVES from 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 & 2007. :)

Random Quote: 'Are you using the world as an arena to express your social pathology?' - Shaykh Hamza Yusuf
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: triple talq in one go !!!  (Read 2950 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
peace
Sis
Sr. Member
*

Reputation Power: 21
peace barely matters :(peace barely matters :(
Gender: Female
Posts: 315



« on: Dec 04, 2009 01:39 PM »


as salaam wale kum,
couple of days back i saw a programe on a pakistani islamic channel where the mufti said that if a man pronounced talaq 3 times at one go it will be considered as 3 seperate talaqs. As far as i know there is a very detailed process of this given in the Holy Quran. The mufti also said that after doing so even if the man regrets this act Huh? and does not want the talaq it cannot be undone Undecided  and a complete halala will be required.
This looks scary Undecided
Is it true??
extrusion
Guest
« Reply #1 on: Dec 04, 2009 04:56 PM »

This is the Hanafi opinion. The Shafi disagree with this.

In Islam there is no such thing as a false statement in three issues.
Marriage, divorce and freeing a slave.
It doesn't matter whether someone meant what they said or didn't in these three issues.
What they say is final and there is no reverse.

In Islam men have been given the power of Talaq and women haven't. Some men behave like women and have no control over what they say. So they accidental say these words three times. These men do not deserve to be married. And this rule sets these women free to remarry. What we have to do is get men to marry such women, and keep women from marrying those men who can't control their tongs.
tq
Sis
Sr. Member
*

Reputation Power: 18
tq has no influence :(
Gender: Female
Posts: 381


« Reply #2 on: Dec 04, 2009 05:44 PM »

Assalamo elikuim

Quote
Some men behave like women and have no control over what they say.

Huh???


jannah
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Reputation Power: 277
jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!
Gender: Female
Posts: 7133


I heart the Madina


WWW
« Reply #3 on: Dec 04, 2009 10:23 PM »

Women have been given the right of khula' the right of divorce but unfortunately people would like to enforce the men's talaq aspect in every way and not the right of khula'. I know a sister that has been trying to get divorced for ages. She has been going from Imam to Imam but they all keep telling her 'oh try to make your marriage work out' even though they agree he has not fulfilled any of her rights.
doninapond
Guest
« Reply #4 on: Dec 04, 2009 10:35 PM »

Jannah maybe those Imams are more knowledgable than you. And the reason why they didn't give her Khul is because she has no right to it?
Fozia
Sis
Hero Member
*

Reputation Power: 124
Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!
Gender: Female
Posts: 2659



« Reply #5 on: Dec 04, 2009 10:43 PM »

salam

What would constitute no right to khul?

The wife of Thabit bin Qais (RA), asked for Talaq from her husband because she did not like him. The Prophet (SAWS) asked her to return back to him the garden he gave to her at the time of marriage as dower. She accepted this demand and got the Talaq.

If the poor woman is going from place to place she should be allowed the divorce, we're Muslim, not Jews where the wife is at the mercy of her husbands whim!

Sometimes two people do not work out, it's unfortunate however Islam recognises this and allows divorce.



Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
jannah
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Reputation Power: 277
jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!
Gender: Female
Posts: 7133


I heart the Madina


WWW
« Reply #6 on: Dec 04, 2009 10:47 PM »

Indeed they know the details of the situation much better than I, but it's more their belief that it's better to try to save a marriage than to end one. Which is a good belief, but doesn't go for every situation. They want her to wait because they want the couple to reconcile, but I believe it's been two years. And as I said she has the RIGHT because he has not fulfilled her rights as a husband in Islam. They're not reconciling and she has the right to move on with her life.


Jannah maybe those Imams are more knowledgable than you. And the reason why they didn't give her Khul is because she has no right to it?
doninapond
Guest
« Reply #7 on: Dec 05, 2009 10:31 AM »

Jannah their belief that it is better to try and fix the Marriage is based on three facts:

Firstly it is based on the fact that they have more knowledge of Islam than you.

Secondly it is based on the fact that they have more knowledge about the situation than you(Have you heard the husband's side of the story?).

Thirdly it is based on the fact that they have more experience on marital disputes, reconciliation and divorce than you.

Foziah
In Islam a woman asking for Khula is a very serious issue. Going to a judge is not simply procedural. And the judge is someone who weighs both sides of the argument according to his knowledge of Islam and the situation at hand. He isn't just a rubber stamp that some women think they are.
Foziah the Prophet PBH gave people divorce when they met the conditions to get divorce. He wasn't a rubber stamp. The Prophet PBH and the Ulima who have studied the words of the Prophet pbh know more about the situation than you. And these Imams who have studied the words of the Prophet have decided that that woman has no right of divorce, but you who have simply read that Hadith with out knowing much more about the people involved whether it be the sahaba mentioned in the Hadith or the couple with the present day dispute can not say the Ulimah are wrong and the woman has that right that the ulimah have denied her.

"If a woman seeks talaaq from her husband without a pressing need then the fragrance of Jannat becomes haraam upon her. (Ahmad, Haakim)


Jannah it is best that you tell your friend to repent and fear Allah. If she has received the Islamic verdict from a Scholar what business has she in going to others to try and find one that fits her whims and desires?

Is she asking scholars to obtain their knowledge or using them as a rubber stamp to justify her own disobedience?
JustOne
Sis
Hero Member
*

Reputation Power: 17
JustOne has no influence :(
Gender: Female
Posts: 543


« Reply #8 on: Dec 05, 2009 10:39 AM »

i am shocked and completely appalled at the language and tone being used by you, sister doninapond.

frankly you should go back and read the volumes of islamic books (written by people far more learned than you) on the basics of akhlaaq.

And I don't think anyone said that the Prophet (saw) was a "rubber stamp" other than you, when you chose to argue that he's not.  So let's show some respect to him (saw).
jannah
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Reputation Power: 277
jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!
Gender: Female
Posts: 7133


I heart the Madina


WWW
« Reply #9 on: Dec 05, 2009 08:17 PM »

You don't seem to be understanding what I'm saying. Of the specific situation I spoke of, the Imams agreed that she HAS the right of divorce. They just haven't given it to her because they want the couple to reconcile. They have also agreed to give it to her "in a few months".

Also the Imams of today are not the learned Islamic judges of yesteryear. The Imams of today vary quite a bit in their knowledge and wisdom and they do make mistakes. Especially living in the West where there is no type of Islamic society or support system. Some do NOT have experience in marriages and divorces and/or counseling.

As to your message that khula' is so serious, where is the emphasis on the 3 talaq being serious as was the topic of this message. Again we have an issue like "polygamy", "women asking divorce", "hijab" that is emphasized where the rest is forgot.

I won't justify your last remarks with any comments except that it is good for one to look in the mirror.
doninapond
Guest
« Reply #10 on: Dec 06, 2009 12:08 PM »

You don't seem to be understanding what I'm saying. Of the specific situation I spoke of, the Imams agreed that she HAS the right of divorce. They just haven't given it to her because they want the couple to reconcile. They have also agreed to give it to her "in a few months".




Jannah what you said now is the same as what you said then.
Jannah why do I need to repeat myself here?
The Scholars said she has to wait after asking them, because that is the procedure for Khala!
They know this because they have studied Islam and are Scholars. You do not know this because you are not a Scholar!

When I responded to your previous posting I didn't go in to detail because I assumed you knew the procedure for Khula. I think with this posting you have indicated that you don't?
When the judge is appointed by the woman, he will contact the man. place the condition for the marriages continuation to the man. And the man has that duration to follow those conditions, if he doesn't he may give the woman Khula.

"Also the Imams of today are not the learned Islamic judges of yesteryear. The Imams of today vary quite a bit in their knowledge and wisdom and they do make mistakes. Especially living in the West where there is no type of Islamic society or support system. Some do NOT have experience in marriages and divorces and/or counseling."

Do you know something?
I actually agree with this. And because of this I do not believe such people have the right to give divorce. The reason why I was upset by your post was I believe it indicated that you were using this as an excuse to say such people don't have the right to refuse to give divorce!
Divorce being given by people who have no right to give it is a very serious issue. because it means there are woman who are still married thinking that they are not. These woman marry again and by doing so commit adulatory and give birth to illegitimate children.
I personally know a brother who said something something to upset the gang who run Brixton Musjid, so they divorced his wife from him and remarried her to someone else. Everytimes he see the man who married his wife, he asks him, "how is my wife", that man responds "Don't you mean mine", and he says, "No I mean mine, I never divorced her".
Some Muslims who live in the west do not see adultery or a woman being married to two husbands as a major issue because in the west it is very common. But in Islam it is a major issue because the punishment for adultery in Islam is stoning to death. It also puts her new Husband in sin because he is guilty of fornication everytime he sleeps with her. And also her first husband, because Islamicly she is still married to him he has the duty to maintain all the children she gives birth to even though they are from Zina.
Fozia
Sis
Hero Member
*

Reputation Power: 124
Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!
Gender: Female
Posts: 2659



« Reply #11 on: Dec 06, 2009 01:36 PM »

salam


Muslim judges can issue divorces.


This is a very serious issue actually, advocating trapping a woman in an unhappy marriage because according to you she has no right to divorce and no one can help her to obtain one. Is incorrect, and dangerous actually.

Islam is the middle path, we are not forced to live in untenable situations, a flippant reason for divorce to you ie say the woman finds her husband unattractive, could be untenable for the woman in question, this does not mean the woman involved has to live with the situation forever just because another woman would be able to bear it!

I've met lots of people like you in my life, I expect they'll continue to pop up and tell what Islam is.

And for those who's words have caused un-solicited pain to an already scarred heart, I leave in Allahs hands.


Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
doninapond
Guest
« Reply #12 on: Dec 06, 2009 02:36 PM »

salam


Muslim judges can issue divorces.


This is a very serious issue actually, advocating trapping a woman in an unhappy marriage because according to you.



Fozia the "according to you" and the "Muslim judges" are the key words here. I wasn't the one who refused to give that woman a divorce, it was the "judges" she went to.

If we read what Jannah wrote again, she went to one Imam for a judgement, and didn't get the judgment she wanted to went to another and so on. That is not what I will call looking for a judgement. I call that looking for a rubber stamp.

So I repeat, it wasn't according to me, it was according to the Imams that woman choose to go to.

salam



Islam is the middle path, we are not forced to live in untenable situations, a flippant reason for divorce to you ie say the woman finds her husband unattractive, could be untenable for the woman in question, this does not mean the woman involved has to live with the situation forever just because another woman would be able to bear it!



I have never said unattractiveness is a flippant reason, please insert the quote in your next post if you believe I have said it.

Secondly there is such a thing as women demanding Khula for flippant reasons, and often getting it like the case I mentioned.
We see this a lot in cults and cult like structures, where a man stops following a shaikh and his wife leaves him without divorce and Marries someone else.

If that isn't enough for you I can give you more examples of women demanding Khul for flippant reasons. The overwhelming majority of Khula that I know about both that were rejected and accepted have come from the wife's family and not the wife herself.

most were due to the husband or his family having an argument with the wife's family.
two examples which come to mind off the top of my head are:
Husband's mum and dad have an expensive house.
Wife's parents find out what it is worth.
They demand the husband force his elderly parents to sell the house. Use the money for a deposit to buy two smaller houses. one for the couple one for the husband's parents.
Husband's father refuses. wife's parents abuse the husband to try and get him to put pressure on his parents. Parents still refuse so they take back their daughter. Both sides attend one Musjid divorce proceedings. She is not granted Khula. Then she takes it to a preacher who is not part of their community, doesn't know them and has no musjid, preacher calls husband. Husband refuses to attend, so he grants her Khula.

Second case.
Husband and wife happily married.
Wife's brother accidental divorces husband's niece.
Husband's mother asks her to stay in the house and not tell any body about it to save the families honour. she refuses and leaves.
in retaliation wife leaves husband.
Wife isn't given divorce, husband continues to call her back for many years.

If the judge doesn't give a woman a divorce. Then she has to remain obedient to her husband.
BrKhalid
Bro
Hero Member
*

Reputation Power: 27
BrKhalid barely matters :(BrKhalid barely matters :(
Gender: Male
Posts: 1352



« Reply #13 on: Dec 06, 2009 03:59 PM »

Asalaamu Alaikum

This thread reminded me of the following ahadith:

Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet saw said, "The most hated person in the sight of Allah is the most quarrelsome person."
 
[Muslim]
 
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:
 
The Prophet saw said, "Whoever has (the following) four characters will be a hypocrite, and whoever has one of the following four characteristics will have one characteristic of hypocrisy until he gives it up. These are: (1 ) Whenever he talks, he tells a lie; (2) whenever he makes a promise, he breaks it; (3) whenever he makes a covenant he proves treacherous; (4) and whenever he quarrels, he behaves impudently in an evil insulting manner." 

Say: "O ye my servants who believe! Fear your Lord, good is (the reward) for those who do good in this world. Spacious is God's earth! those who patiently persevere will truly receive a reward without measure!" [39:10]
pearl
Sis
Full Member
*

Reputation Power: 6
pearl has no influence :(
Gender: Female
Posts: 118


« Reply #14 on: Dec 06, 2009 04:42 PM »

Asalaamu Alaikum

This thread reminded me of the following ahadith:

Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet saw said, "The most hated person in the sight of Allah is the most quarrelsome person."
 
[Muslim]
   

As salaamu alaikum,

Since this board doesn't have a function to "Recommend" a post or  state whether it was "Helpful",  I am hereby "Highly Recommending" Bro Khalid's post and I hope it is taken to heart.
doninapond
Guest
« Reply #15 on: Dec 06, 2009 05:03 PM »

Hasan al Basri narrated from abu Hurairah "The women asking for seperation and Khul are Al Munafiqat"

Fozia
Sis
Hero Member
*

Reputation Power: 124
Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!Fozia is awe-inspiring mA!
Gender: Female
Posts: 2659



« Reply #16 on: Dec 06, 2009 10:47 PM »

salam

Oh really, and this was a blanket ruling was it, with no reason behind it whatsoever, he didn't actually say this to one person for a reason? A Scholar decided to overrule the laws of Allah (swt)?
Hasan al Basri narrated from abu Hurairah "The women asking for seperation and Khul are Al Munafiqat"



The example I used in my previous post was just an example, I am saying that one persons flippant reason is anothers completely untenable situation, the examples you gave are exactly that clearly untenable for the women involved, and now you also belie scholars because you personally do not agree with their ruling!


Here's the thing, I sued for divorce too.

But do you know what, I didn't ask for assistance from anyone at all whatsoever, not Muslim not kuffar not any one single human being.

I turned to Allah (swt) and begged for his infinite mercy, I pleaded for him for his protection, I prayed for his gentleness, his nobility, his everlasting mercy a millionfold. I asked Him and only Him and do you know what, he replied, swiftly, and easily and gently, in a way I never ever thought possible.

And reading these posts, I am so very glad, that my automatic reaction has always been to throw myself at Allahs mercy, because subhanallah, the world is filled with heardhearted self righteous people.


I hope the tongue softens so that the words that are presently filled with malevolence, causing pain like a million cuts straight to the heart and making people turn away from not only the speaker but the religion supposedly advocated by the speaker, become as sweet as honey which in turn invites the listener to seek further the truth and add numbers to our ummah.

I hope your eyes which currently seem to see every non-Muslim and many of the ummah as fuel for the fires of hell, are truly opened so instead you see you’re brothers and sisters in Islam, and all those besides with a compassionate gaze.

I hope the heart which is now so hard and condemns every perceived disagreement with you as a weakness of faith in all but yourself, softens as warm wax, so that you learn to forgive and love others and desire for them that which you desire for yourself, namely Jannah , and closeness to your creator, I hope your learn to forgive, and accept that although we are of the same faith each has different desires, and if those are within the scope of Islam, as a human being you learn to accept not condemn the decisions of those besides yourself!


I actually have to thank you for this post, because you have convinced me beyond a shadow of doubt, that this Ummah desperately needs compassionate scholars, who will help others in the manner they would wish to be treated themselves. That we need vocal advocates to champion the oppressed, not half learned hard hearted people throwing about rulings out of context causing further grief and sorrow to the already broken.

Islam is Mercy, and it's Lord is Mercy, and it is Mercy and it is Mercy.



Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
um aboodi
Sis
Hero Member
*

Reputation Power: 26
um aboodi barely matters :(um aboodi barely matters :(
Gender: Female
Posts: 606



« Reply #17 on: Dec 07, 2009 12:25 AM »

salam

All I can say after reading this thread is "la hawla wa la quwwata ill billah".

I hope that whoever reads these posts realizes that non of us here are scholars and those written words represent the people who wrote them and no more.   

Sr. Fozia, please don't get upset over the sometimes harsh comments of doninapond.  Unfortunately, she is misrepresnting what Islam truly is.

Sr. doninapond, I suggest you give it a rest. We have heard your thoughts on this issue, so jazaki Allahu khair.  Please have some empathy toward women who are trying to get out of horrible marriages whose husbands won't give them talaq out of spite.  What are they supposed to do if khula' was not an option?

Finally,  dear moderators, may I ask why is this thread not locked yet? can you end our misery and lock it please? 

thanks!

wassalam
BrKhalid
Bro
Hero Member
*

Reputation Power: 27
BrKhalid barely matters :(BrKhalid barely matters :(
Gender: Male
Posts: 1352



« Reply #18 on: Dec 07, 2009 06:34 AM »

Asalaamu Alaikum


“Women who seek khula’ are hypocrites.”


Just for everyone’s benefit and to avoid any confusion, the hadith is in the context of those women who seek a divorce ‘without a good reason’


It does not apply to women who seek a divorce with a valid reason as defined by Shariah.


Allah knows best


Wasalaam
BrKhalid

Say: "O ye my servants who believe! Fear your Lord, good is (the reward) for those who do good in this world. Spacious is God's earth! those who patiently persevere will truly receive a reward without measure!" [39:10]
Admin
Administrator
Full Member
*****

Reputation Power: 107
Admin has an aura about them. :)Admin has an aura about them. :)Admin has an aura about them. :)Admin has an aura about them. :)Admin has an aura about them. :)Admin has an aura about them. :)Admin has an aura about them. :)Admin has an aura about them. :)Admin has an aura about them. :)Admin has an aura about them. :)
Posts: 216



« Reply #19 on: Dec 07, 2009 08:38 AM »



You are right. Now closed due to excessive debate of no benefit.



Quote
Finally,  dear moderators, may I ask why is this thread not locked yet? can you end our misery and lock it please? 
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to: