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Author Topic: Dear 'Muslim' Terrorist  (Read 6274 times)
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« on: Jan 05, 2010 07:32 PM »


Dear 'Muslim' Terrorist,

A letter to a would-be terrorist.

What exactly did you think you'd be gaining? Like for real, did you think your name would be up in lights? Did you think people would think you're the savior of the Muslim world or something? Did you think you were correcting all the injustices against Muslims in the world or even avenging them?

No you're rather pathetic. First of all you did not think at all when you 'concocted' your stupid plan. Did you even bother to read about what Islam said about the issue? Yeah, don't bother reading some lone crazy Fatwa someone like you with wack ideas and has no backing came up with. But did you even bother to ask a single real scholar of Islam? Like the hundreds and thousands of mainstream Islamic scholars out there. --Guess what they say-- That killing innocent people is Haram. Wow didn't get that bulletin did you. What's that you say, the whole world is against Islam, so it's ok to kill indiscriminately. Yeah so why don't you just kill yourself then (somewhere alone). You know why. Yes, it's because killing yourself is also Haram in Islam!! Life is sacred in Islam and belongs to God, not people! Yet you still dare to go against that and do it to others?!

Anyways I just don't get it. These young "Muslim" guys had so much going for them. They could have done so much to change society and the world around them. To spread the real message of Islam and justice. Justice does not come from violence. It doesn't. Justice comes from change. Change in thought and ideas. And you cannot get this change by violence. Especially stupid plans like blowing up planes and killing innocent people.

Really, what did those five boys from Virginia get for traveling to Pakistan to supposedly join up with some 'Jihad camp'.  Did they save the Muslim world? They destroyed five families and an entire community. What did the Ft. Hood shooter get? Nothing except probable torture and execution. Did he make a point? Besides that Muslims can't be trusted anywhere. No he did not. The 7th July English bombers?  The Mumbai bombers? Zip except a whole lot more problems for the Muslims in their countries. What did the 'underwear' bomber get. Nothing except a humiliating nickname and the same as above. Even if he had been successful what would he get? Nothing except a lot of hate. From every Muslim in the United States and every non-Muslim. Thanks a lot buddy. Every amount of progress we had made since Obama came into office just went down the toilet. What point were you trying to make again? No one has heard it because we now have to stand in line two hours more for every flight undergoing invasive full body scans at every airport thanks to you! Now every innocent person from 13 Muslim countries will endure more hardship because of you. Now every single person in Yemen (an entire country! and not even your country!) will suffer because of you.

This kind of "Jihad" just does not work. It does not help our brothers and sisters dying every day in Iraq and Afghanistan and Palestine and everywhere else. It just doesn't. A terrorist might think they are bringing the oppression over there to the forefront of people's minds here. But it's actually just making them feel more justified. The "threat' is what made them go over there in the first place and you are just adding more proof to their argument. Did the "vengeance" you caused make them sit down and chat about making things better for Muslims? Or did it allow them to cause more oppression?

How did the 9/11 terrorists help Muslims? By killing 3,000 innocent lives (which BTW included some Muslims) and then by causing the killing of hundreds of thousands of lives in Iraq and Afghanistan and Gaza. Yes, all justified by 9/11. Who is to blame if your action causes great tragedy and injustice. They might carry it out but it is YOU who caused it by your stupid wrong actions. You must understand, this is not a level playing field. It may be unfair, but Muslim blood is cheap. And other's suffering causes them to seek vengeance upon us tenfold. Terrorism as a strategy does not work. It will never bring about the justice we are looking for.

See it's like that movie Umar Mukhtar... the colonizers were there all raping/killing and the Muslim army captures two as prisoners and one of the Muslim soldiers wants to just kill them. He raises his gun and Umar Mukhtar puts his hands over the rifle and pushes it down. "We do not kill prisoners" (an Islamic principle), he says. Well "*They* do it to *us*!" is the answer. Umar Mukhtar says, "They" are not our *teachers*!

Do you see? They are not our teachers. See we EXPECT retartedness from them. We expect wrong and evil and oppression. This is expected in the world. A lot of people do not like justice or fairness or the way of life that is Islam. That is how it is. But how can we become them? How can we compromise our Deen taught to us by our beloved Prophet (s) and our Holy Quran. Can you imagine if you said to Muhammad (s):  Yeah they're killing us so I'm just going to go over there and blow up a mall/plane/business full of innocent people... men, women, children, xtian, muslim or jew... doesn't matter... it probably won't even help our cause and just makes things worse...but who cares... i might be doing it out of revenge or because i'm depressed or messed up psychologically but hey..._I'm doing it for you._  Does that make any sense to you? Can you imagine what he (s) would say.

That you're an idiot. Yes. Even worse... you are a person that does not think. And Islam, above many things, is especially a religion for those who think. We are taught to think about our actions and reactions and responses. That's what it's all about isn't it? Actions = hereafter. Doing sins has a response, we're accountable for it. The grave and dust is not the end of all things. "All this" means something. And one day we will see the truth of everything. So why didn't you think? Why didn't you think of the consequences? About whether or not you were actually helping Muslims? Why didn't you think of better ways that can bring about change in this world? To show people what Islam is really about? To work on yourself first and become a better Muslim? To help the community around you and the larger Muslim community that is suffering... instead of making it suffer more? I mean can we not THINK as Muslims and come up with rational, real effective ways of helping Muslims overseas. Why can't you do that instead of coming up with stupid irrational vigilante justice scenarios.

Ok I'm done now. My anger is spent. It's not even for myself. I expect this life not to be easy for a Muslim. We will have hardships and challenges and we will have to live through them and gain our resolve and fight for justice in *thinking* ways. And in the end we may have to wait for our justice in the Hereafter. But it just upsets me that you would damage the name of our beautiful Deen and the image of Muslims. Another crime in so many crimes, and yet you still think you're in the right?

Sincerely, your friend and fellow Muslim (as long as you don't turn into a terrorist),

Jannah
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« Reply #1 on: Jan 05, 2010 10:42 PM »

 iagree iagree iagree iagree iagree iagree iagree iagree iagree iagree iagree iagree iagree iagree iagree iagree iagree goodvibes goodvibes goodvibes goodvibes goodvibes goodvibes goodvibes goodvibes goodvibes goodvibes goodvibes


 desibro
BABA
PS We need a :clapping: or :standing ovation: thingy. Well done Sr. Jannah. Gosh, we sure have a lot of work to do because of these idiots. *sigh*

The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another:  [9:71]
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« Reply #2 on: Jan 05, 2010 11:56 PM »

OUTSTANDING Sister, simply OUTSTANDING
Jannah your words and feelings are perfect
Inshallah they will reach someone out there who needs to read those words. purplehijabisis
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« Reply #3 on: Jan 06, 2010 09:49 PM »

Support implicit or explicit of terrorism is not allowed on this website. This is a mainstream Islamic site that does not support terrorism in any way. We will not allow it to become a platform for people to discuss their "extremists" views, thereby legitimizing them in any way. Terrorism is Haram by every scholar. Thank you. The end.

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« Reply #4 on: Jan 07, 2010 03:22 PM »

 handshake Jannah that was amazing!  You should post this on your blog as well ... can I email the link to this to my friends.  I'm not a fan of mass emails but this deserves to be one  Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: Jan 07, 2010 04:49 PM »

I am not even going to wait for permission- this is just to amazing not to forward....

"Allah surely knows the warmth of every teardrop... " Jaihoon
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« Reply #6 on: Jan 07, 2010 09:38 PM »

ws,

can you wait a little bit.. i want to add a few more things!!
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« Reply #7 on: Jan 08, 2010 12:15 AM »

with baited breath....
Subhannah Allah I had copied it and then was distracted!

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« Reply #8 on: Jan 08, 2010 09:45 AM »

waiting waiting  Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: Jan 08, 2010 10:30 AM »

I think if I write more I'll just never stop. We'll just have to leave it at that  bebzi bebzi
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« Reply #10 on: Jan 08, 2010 09:38 PM »

Claiming terrorists follow Ulema is a joke.


Here is one succinct response:

Watch from 4min.37s here and continue in the next part:
m



Rough Transcript:


Q. Assalaam Alaikum I am Dr. Aziz... I have been attending this program for the third time today and I

have heard many speakers answering on the topic of Islamic terrorism.

It seems all the speakers have believe that what the Muslims are doing all over is really a terrorism. In

fact it is the retaliatory process against the greater terrorism for which the America, it's companions

the greater conspiration is being held wherein they want to ameliorate not only the Muslims but the Islam

as a whole. That is why and they are so much sophisticated. They have got such a big power. They are the

mightiest power on the earth. And we cannot fight them a trendy war with them. And the only way to save

the Islam seems to be in the retaliatory processes, the way Muslims are doing the world over. But I hear

all the speakers and all the delegates believe in the Islamic terorism. I have been given a new meaning ..

I am concerned.... Please explain with inferences from the Quran whether this relatiatory processes which

is a very smaller type of maybe called terrorism against the bigger terrorism of America and its

companions.Please justify it or discard it or give inferences from the Quran whatever has been explained.


A. Allah subhana wata'ala tells us in the Quran "Wa la yaajrannakum..." "Let not the hatred that

injustices of others to you swerve you from being just to them." Allah subhana wata'ala instructs us and his Rasul

salallahu alaihi wa aalahi wa sahbahi wasalam that when our rights are violated as individuals or groups,

Islamically and Sharhi wise there is a process by which to do that. It is not left to just everybody or

any group to do that as they please. In case, that as I said individuals or groups are subjected to

inequities or injustices. Because that process will lead to more harm than good and then benefit.

Number three, I really do not know in many, many instances who is behind what. I do not know in many

many instances who is behind what.  I do not like, at all, the term 'Islamic terrorism' for it is

associated with Islam. If there are, if there are Muslims who are perpetuating acts that are unjust and

that are responses to injustices yet in a way that is unwise and in a way that is improper then they are

wrong if they are doing that. And the way to correct that is not that way. Because it will lead, and has

led to more harm than benefit and yes there are those who cannot wait for any opportunity to point the

fingers not only at Muslims in general but at Islam itself. And who is behind many of those acts, I

honestly and sincerely do not know. But nevertheless those acts are not condonable by Islam. Those people

who say our response to what they perceive as inequities and injustices as individuals and groups and they

respond, for instance if it is the case, by killing en masse people, innocent people, non-combatants, men and

women, children. No. That is not of Islam. Even if they killed my father and my mother and my children,

Islam tells me it's not retaliation. There is no retaliation in Islam by going and killing their fathers,

their mothers, their children, their brothers. No. That is not Islamic.

Islam is to bring the culprit himself or herself or themselves to justice. Not to go and to their village

or their town or
families and cause destruction to them
as an act of retaliation. There is no retaliation in that concept in Islam. There is justice if

you need to have justice through a proper process of law and if not, better yet, especially if it were

personal rights, to forgive and to pardon. When we do that Allah subhana watala will bring to us greater

results in our efforts at explaining Islam to our fellow human being and in our efforts at explaining our plight and legitimate grievances to the world. Wallahu tala alam.   
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« Reply #11 on: Jan 09, 2010 03:30 AM »


Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem

Dear Brother,

Wa-alaikum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu wa maghfiratuhu.

Not to be picky, but this is far from a fatwa. The job of a fatwa is to state something clearly, not to imply something in a veiled manner. Fatawa tend to follow a certain juridical format, they’re not really crafted in this way. Plus they’re usually issued by Muftis. And Sister Jannah, whilst many things, doesn't quite seem Mufti-esque, know what I mean? That was about as close to a fatwa as I am to replacing The Hoff on America’s Got Talent.

Next point…

When a Qadi is presented with a case whereby he has to assess whether takfir has been made, he will exhaust all possibilities in terms of potential meanings that could be attributed to what the defendant said. It’s part of the process of establishing justice.

This is not a court of law. Nonetheless, if we strive to uphold the high standards of Islam, I, for one, could extend the husn al-dhann [benefit of the doubt] to what Sister Jannah has written.

She may correct me, but when I read it, I did not interpret her words as a “thinly-veiled takfir.” On the contrary, I inferred – maybe I’m wrong – that she was making the point that being Muslim and being a terrorist don’t quite go hand in hand. She was not saying that if one is a terrorist it takes them outside of Islam, in terms of their status as a Muslim. Rather, that the act of terrorism, is one which is unislamic, and hence not something one would expect a Muslim to be engaging in. Just like adultery, grand larceny, burglary, etc.

In light of this, when I reached:

"Sincerely, your friend and fellow Muslim (as long as you don't turn into a terrorist),"

- I interpreted that to mean she was saying that she couldn’t be friends with somebody who engages in terrorism, not that she’s saying that person is outside the pale of Islam by virtue of such activity.

I’m an easy going kinda guy, but if someone’s gonna ruin my mocha (two sugars please, because one of those skinny packets is never enough) by telling me their belt’s a little tight, and by belt they're not referring to something holding their trousers up, then I don’t party like that. You feel me?

Now, I may be completely wrong. But that’s not the point. The point is, it is possible to understand her words in this light. That being the case, the Qadi would withhold from establishing a verdict that takfir has been made, as really, the final confirmation of that could, in this instance, only come from the one who authored the words. And this is the challenge of inference versus implication. What exactly was the intended meaning the author wanted to convey? You know, like the balance between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law, which the faqih strives to straddle.

If any of us is going to err, then let it be on the side of caution, always.

Anyway, Sister Jannah doesn’t need me to defend her, she is well able to do defend herself, though I think anyone who places this letter of hers alongside her many other posts (2768 at last count), will be hard-pushed to conclude she is some kind of rabid takfiri, hashalillah (I know you never suggested otherwise).

She might scare us with her advice to brothers about marriage, but she isn’t weird like that all the time. Honestly. Such posts and letters are her way of screaming to the world GET THEE OUT OF ME DARN THOUGHTS….DAAAMMMIIIAAAAN! COME HITHER DAMIAN…

No, seriously. It’s like a phase thing. Werewolf style. Ask her if she writes at night, or in the day. I think we all know the answer.

Okay Den Mother, you can stop howling at the moon now…

Abu Khaled


PS: Which believers miss the point about the Khawarij still being considered Muslim? You can exclude me from that generalisation*. In fact Imam al-Ghazali – radhi’Allahu ‘anh – discusses the rationale which lies beneath your point, at length, in Faysal al-Tafriqa.

*Unless you don’t consider me a believer? But of course that’s not what you meant, right? Because you didn’t actually say that did you? So I shouldn’t read more into your words than are there, right?
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« Reply #12 on: Jan 09, 2010 04:08 AM »

wsalam,

wow. just wow. either i'm a kafir or a takfiri huh... can't win Smiley

anyway it's interesting how you interpreted that, very interesting.  what i MEANT was

if you're a terrorist you're not my friend or my fellow anything. you're a person who has committed a terrorist act, whether you are muslim or not.

so you want a fatwa huh? here you go:


By CBC News, cbc.ca, Updated: January 8, 2010 7:34 PM

Attack on Canada, U.S is attack on Muslims: imams

A group of Canadian and U.S. Islamic leaders on Friday issued a fatwa, or religious edict, declaring that an attack by extremists on the two countries would constitute an attack on the 10 million Muslims living in North America.

The 20 imams associated with the Islamic Supreme Council of Canada said this marked the first fatwa by the Muslim clergy declaring attacks on Canada and the U.S. to be attacks on Muslims.

"In our view, these attacks are evil, and Islam requires Muslims to stand up against this evil," the imams said in their fatwa.
"These terrorist attacks and extremist attacks on Canadian or American soil is, in fact, attack on Muslims. Because we are part of this society. This is my home, and if anybody attacks on Canada, in fact, attacks on my home," said Syed Soharwardy of the Islamic Supreme Council of Canada, and an imam in Calgary.

The imams also said it is a duty of every Muslim in Canada and the U.S. to safeguard the two countries.
"They must expose any person, Muslim or non-Muslim, who would cause harm to fellow Canadians or Americans," they said.

"It is religious obligation upon Muslims, based upon the Qur'anic teachings, that we have to be loyal to the country where we live," said Soharwardy. "We have no problems in Canada; we can practise our religion freely."

In Montreal, one of the signatories of the edict, Imam Nasir Qadri of the Anwar Musallah Mosque, said he spoke to his followers at his mosque about the issue Friday.
Most of them call Canada home and feel personally threatened by the attempted attacks, he said.

The 20 imams who signed the fatwa come from British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, Quebec and Houston.
The fatwa comes just weeks after an attempted bombing on Christmas Day of a U.S. jet bound for Detroit from Amsterdam.

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, a 23-year-old Nigerian man, has been indicted on six charges, which include attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction and attempted murder.
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« Reply #13 on: Jan 09, 2010 01:38 PM »

To me terrorism is against everything Islam stands for and that is all terrorism. Sadly to say we only look at it from one side but the muslim community is being terrorized from more than one side. Its not only the suicide bomber but it is also the bombs being drop on innocent children, women, and men from above. The fatwa that was presented above is strange to me because out of those 5 locations and the organization mentioned only 20 Imams was aboard what about the other Imams that is in those locations (which have to be more than 20) and where was their  fatwa or letter of condemnation against the bombing of innocent muslims lives in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other Islamic countries that were bombed or still is being bombed by those countries they are representing. It is easy for us to make judgements with our emotions but that is not the Islamic way we only make judgements from the Qu’ran and the sunnah of our Prophet(saw).
          Narrated 'Umar bin Al-Khattab: People were (sometimes) judged by the revealing of a Divine Inspiration during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle but now there is no longer any more (new revelation). Now we judge you by the deeds you practice publicly, so we will trust and favor the one who does good deeds in front of us, and we will not call him to account about what he is really doing in secret, for Allah will judge him for that; but we will not trust or believe the one who presents to us with an evil deed even if he claims that his intentions were good. (Bukhari Book 48, hadith 809) Surah 2:11,12 translated by Mohsin Khan
 And when it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "We are only peace-makers." Verily! They are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive not.
There are evil deeds being presented to us from both sides does that make everyone on both sides terrorist? There are terrorist, disbelievers, hypocrites, muslims and innocent people on both sides. Lets stand up against all injustices even if it is coming from our own sides.  Remember what Allah(swt) has told us surat 5:54 translated by Mohsin Khan   
O you who believe! Whoever from among you turns back from his religion (Islam), Allah will bring a people whom He will love and they will love Him; humble towards the believers, stern towards the disbelievers, fighting in the Way of Allah, and never fear of the blame of the blamers. That is the Grace of Allah which He bestows on whom He wills. And Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures' needs, All-Knower.
We shouldn’t get caught up into  what is politically correct, our only concern is what is Islamically correct. May Allah guide us all to right understanding and guidance. (Allah knows best)

LIVE YOUR LIFE FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH:
IF IT'S NOT FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH IS IT EVEN WORTH DOING?
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« Reply #14 on: Jan 09, 2010 02:33 PM »

I was waiting for someone to post what you did. YES we do know the bombings of innocent Muslims are wrong and are equal to the same thing as terrorism. No one is saying anything differently. The problem is some Muslims believe you are either "against the war and pro-terrorism" or "against terrorists and pro-war". That's not the way it is. I'm against the war and against terrorism. And so are most Muslims. I think the above is a mentality from the "US versus THEM" garbage that Bush and OBL tried to brainwash people into believing. Being against terrorism and speaking out against it, among Muslims or Non-Muslims has nothing to do with being politically correct. It's called standing up for justice even when it's against ourselves and it is part of our Deen as well.
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« Reply #15 on: Jan 09, 2010 03:16 PM »

My point about politically correct is don't only make a fatwa against those who are doing wrong to your countries but also do one about the wrong your countries are doing. My mentality is always Muslims against disbelievers.

Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and We Will Not Interfere With Them Except Legally And Their Reckoning Will Be With Allah." Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik, "O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?" He replied, "Whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have."  (Bukhari Book #8, Hadith #387) No where in there does it say if you agree with him or not.

May Allah guide us all to proper knowledge and understanding (Allah knows best)

Ameen.


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IF IT'S NOT FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH IS IT EVEN WORTH DOING?
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« Reply #16 on: Jan 10, 2010 09:50 AM »

Sorry SYID I accidentally deleted some of your post!! D'oh it wasn't even on purpose really lol. Really I'd loved to have done it on purpose but it was an accident!! Please re-edit and replace what got taken out...you can click on "modify" which is what I did accidentally.  It's probably my cue to stop writing in this thread.

Anyways Br. AbuKhaled thanks for your stellar post (r u a lawyer in real life?)... I will guarantee you that those who you addressed it to will only have hus al dhann for terrorists and not for anyone else.


================================
Response to SYID's original post:

wsalam,
Quote
My point about politically correct is don't only make a fatwa against those who are doing wrong to your countries but also do one about the wrong your countries are doing.


Fatwas are for Muslims. To make a Fatwa for non-Muslims is irrelevant! What are you going to do, hand them a piece of paper and say here's a Fatwa for you.  If someone doesn't believe in a set of ideas and principles as a religion there is no point (interesting how that goes for terrorists as well.)  So to protest the wars for non-Muslims there are other methods that might include writing letters, attending protests, working with various organizations, voting for different ideas, supporting different candidates, changing sentiment, spreading publicity about wrong actions through media outlets and so on.

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My mentality is always Muslims against disbelievers.

This is a war like mentality which is what Bush/OBL wanted. They want the world divided into Muslim against non-Muslim. Dar al-Kufr versus Dar al-Islam. Where I ask you is this Dar al Islam? (because I'd like to move there) The world is not like this. Everything is not so black and white. Muslims are the cause of their problems most of the time and they just don't want to see it. How long can we blame the "white man", colonization and "them". It's not all "them". It is "us". We are the problem, we do not follow the guidance sent down by Allah and the inevitable happens. Some Muslims want to keep complaining that they are the innocent victims and refuse to speak out when one of them does something wrong.  I would like to speak more about this in the next post.

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Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and We Will Not Interfere With Them Except Legally And Their Reckoning Will Be With Allah." Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked

Great way to take a Hadith out of context. This is the same Hadith orientalists pull out. So why aren't you out there fighting until they say that?

I can give you a hundred hadith and verses on justice and enjoining wrong and forbidding evil, even against ourselves or against fellow Muslims. I was tempted to put them in the letter but people can twist what they want.


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Anas bin Malik, "O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?" He replied, "Whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have."  (Bukhari Book #8, Hadith #387)
No where in there does it say if you agree with him or not

Another Hadith out of context. I never said a terrorist is a non-Muslim. I said he is a murderer and someone who is totally not following Islam.

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May Allah guide us all to proper knowledge and understanding (Allah knows best)

Ameen.

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« Reply #17 on: Jan 10, 2010 10:23 AM »

So this sister was on the detroit flight:



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Also in the audience was 27-year-old Hebba Aref of Bloomfield Hills. She sat six rows in front of Abdulmutallab on the flight Christmas Day. Seeing him in the courtroom, she said, brought back some of the fear she felt that day.

"I felt some things in the pit of my stomach and in my heart," said Aref, who is Muslim. "I feel sick."


and there was another Muslim desi uncle type guy in the first videos I saw. Suhail/Khan or something.

So that makes at least two innocent Muslims he tried to kill, along with 288  innocent non-Muslims.

Now observe the other story in the news about the Muslim kid in Houston who decided to correct an injustice he saw and take the law into his own hands. He would pay another Muslim kid to kill his mother for money. This second one named Mohammed stabbed the mother.

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Evidence inside the apartment convinced police that Khan hadn't gone down without a fight. Stabbed dozens of times, she still managed to put up enough resistance to wreck her home.


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Khan “was a fighter. She fought for her life. She fought and fought and fought,” Harris said of the slain woman. “That's why the scene was as gruesome as it was.”



Disgusting and abhorrent and antithical to Islam isn't it?

Now please post how these boys are heroes and our 'fellow' muslims and how we should have husn al dhann for them. (They admitted freely they committed the crime and how they did it.)


Yet the two are the same.

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« Reply #18 on: Jan 10, 2010 12:26 PM »

since you know a fatwa is for muslims I thought you would have understood that I meant it would have been for the muslims living in those areas to know the stance they are making against the acts their countries are doing like they did for the acts that is being done to them. I 'm sorry for not explaining that better for you. And my mentality of muslim against disbeliever, I didn't make it this way Allah did.    surat 20:123 translated by mohsin khan states: He (Allah) said: "Get you down (from the Paradise to the earth), both of you, together, some of you are an enemy to some others....  and surat 5:51 translated by mohsin khan states: O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Auliya' of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Auliya'), then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust).
and for the hadith maybe you need to take your time and read each line and you would see that they are not taken out of context. and for the fighting it is many of ways one can fight to spread Islam they all do not have to be violently.  May Allah guide us all to knowledge and proper understanding  (Allah knows best)

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« Reply #19 on: Jan 10, 2010 01:08 PM »

Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem

Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullah.

Brother Syid, who is this “we” on behalf you presume to speak when you claim “we only look at it from one side”? You and your friends? Sister Jannah? Members of this board? Muslims of America? The Ummah? Who exactly? Because I can tell you you don’t speak on behalf of me in that “we”. I consciously and conscientiously try to look a both sides, always.

Regarding the other fatwa you wish to see, condemning against the bombing of innocent Muslims, do you require a fatwa for that? Are you confused about it? Fatawa are usually issued when a need is present. They’re not Press Releases. Maybe the community in those locations isn’t confused on this point, but felt there was confusion regarding that which has been addressed. Did you enquire? Did you also check to see whether historically they have issued any fatwa condemning what you would like them to condemn, so you can know with confidence that they haven’t? Or have you just presumed it hasn’t been done?

And how many Imams from that locality would it take for you to feel satisfied? 21? 25? 40? 100? 1000? 51%? 100%? And from where is that figure necessitated?

Who says that when a fatwa is issued about one matter, another must be issued regarding – and I use the following phrase hesitantly - the other side of the story? So, hypothetically, when a Mufti issues a fatwa concerning the response to the Israeli incursion of Gaza, is he obliged to also issue an edict condemning the kidnapping of foreign civilians by Muslim fighters? What is the evidence for that?

Another point which is troubling about your post, though in fairness to you, many Muslims are guilty of it, including myself till I was made aware:

When you address your father, do you do so by his first, or full, name? Or by some title befitting who he is to you, out of respect? If it is the latter, then why? Why not refer to him by his name?

When you meet a great scholar of this Deen, do you address him using his first name? Or by his title, as is befitting?

So why then the lack of respect and adab [etiquette] towards Sayyiduna ‘Umar -  radhi’Allahu ‘anh – whom you don’t even address with the proper adab [etiquette], for whom Allah ta’ala guaranteed paradise. About whom Rasul’Allah – sallallahu alayhi wassalam – is related to have mentioned – on the authority of our teachers [paraphrased:] – that had there been another Prophet, it would have been him, radhi’Allahu ‘anh? The one who related probably one of the most famous hadiths of all, which is used to explain the very essence of Islam, the Hadith of Jibril, alayhis salam.

Our teachers explain that when someone teaches you your religion, they become like a parent to you, and you accord them that respect and honour, for this is honouring that which Allah ta’ala made sacred and deserving of that respect. And few have greater right to this adab than the Ennobled Sahabah – radhi’Allahu anhum ajmaeen – of the Prophetic community, amongst them which Sayyiduna ‘Umar – radhi’Allahu ‘anh – is at their forefront. Yet even in your subsequent post you cite eminent Companions – radhi’Allahu anhum ajmaeen – with no regard for a title before or an honorific afterwards. Is this the level of respect we show towards those without whom we would not be able to even know Rasul’Allah – sallallahu alayhi wassalam – the Qur’an, Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala, or Islam? Is it more important to quote the hadith than remember the adab towards the one who transmitted that blessed hadith? In our eagerness to make our point, underscore our argument, defend our position, advance our case, we overlook the baraka we could benefit from by the adab we show. The connection between this adab and our tawfiq [success] in knowing what we say is rightly-guided, is critical. Yet too many of us remain unaware of this, in our rush to outsmart the other, wal iyadhubillah.

And what of the laziness and bukhl [miserliness] the Ulema have spoken of, in one who abbreviates the blessings upon the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu alayhi wassalam, to “saw”? Is this a characteristic of any of the rightly-guided Ulema and ‘Arifin? On the contrary, it is a phenomenon of the internet, CD-Rom and SMS age, subhan’Allah. Whereas the example of the Books of Hadith you like to quote from so readily, is that they are replete with salat and salam, in full, upon the Blessed Messenger, sallallahu alayhi wassalam, and benedictions upon the Ennobled Companions, may Allah ta’ala be pleased with them one and all.

It is evidently a phenomenon that manifests in the written word, as people don’t abbreviate when talking, so it is done for the sake of brevity or sheer laziness. But the blessings that are forsaken are probably worth more to one’s akhira than the value of the post itself! Some Ulema explain that the Sunnah is what is worded in full, since this is a du’a [supplication], hence the abbreviation does not fulfil the Sunnah, and this practice is not noted in the best of generations. Wallahu a’lam.

The absence of such care results in our severance from this Sacred Tradition. Of no value is being able to quote from this Sahih or that Sunan when the nisba [connection] is missing. For it is that nisba which was the Sunnah of those you quote from. How else were they able to narrate and relay what they did, may Allah ta’ala be pleased with them.

When we are still struggling to learn such basic lessons, we should be wary of using ahadith and ayats like some playing field where we apply them as we see fit to some discussion we’re having. One should ask themselves: Do I have permission to relate these ahadith? Am I qualified in citing them and being responsible for their usage in the context I’ve placed them? Each one of us will be taken to account for every ayat, every hadith, every athar we use, as that will go on our public record. Have I studied them with Ulema who explained their meanings to me, so I don’t misapply them? This is my safeguard as that is the only way to know I am not upon a perilous foothold when dealing with aspects of revelation directly. Indeed this is a grave responsibility, for it concerns the intended meaning and application of revelation itself. Show me someone - unschooled in the Shar'iah Sciences - who argues that the meanings are obvious as the words are clear, and I’ll show you someone who misunderstands their Deen. Bearing in mind that what you quoted isn’t actually what was narrated – another element of carelessness with how we word things when we express them, but one we can let slip as everyone knows what you mean when you say “so-and-so-narrated” – given that the Sahabah – radhi’Allahu anhum ajmaeen – didn’t speak English. But this kind of slipshoddiness in relaying things tends to signpost a related casualness in how one builds their understanding, as they will typically not consult the Ahl al-’Ilm, instead assuming that the meaning which is apparent upon their reading of that ayat/hadith is the intended meaning of the revelation. This is the onerous responsibility we take upon ourselves in the hereafter when we quote ayats/hadith on our own authority. Because the issue is not only the quoting, but the application, for the latter reflects our mis/understanding of that nass [explicit text]. And how far have some strayed in doing this, may Allah ta’ala forgive us all for our simple-minded unlearnedness. Take this thread, where people misunderstood Sister Jannah’s words, and her first language is English! Then what of the matter when one is dealing with a translation of texts whose original language is Arabic? Are you aware – as has been explained previously – that the Jami al-Sahih has thirteen different riwayah [chains of narration] of which only one has been translated into English? Without having access to, and being familiar with, the remaining twelve - like, for example Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani - rahimahullah - who wrote the formidable multi-volume commentary on the Jami al-Sahih, entitled Fath al-Bari - or indeed the original Arabic work, you simply have no way of knowing whether the hadith you quoted is accurately translated, much less whether it has a significant variant, which impacts upon it’s meaning. Add to this the fact that there may be other nusus [primary texts] which qualify the meaning of the hadith you cited, in a way that makes the meaning of the matter to which you applied it, other than what you think. Ignorance of all this, and more, renders such exercises in quoting isolated primary texts, redundant. Doing so, depending on who is doing the quoting, could be a transgression of one’s limits. So what then of navigating the murky waters of the Sahihayn? Do we even realise that classically, in the life of a talib al-’ilm [student of knowledge] - unlike today’s reality – Sahih al-Bukhari (which incidentally – little known fact to English-speaking audiences – isn’t even the actual title of this blessed work], was one of the final texts one would study, due to the many sciences that are necessary to know with sufficiency lest one get misguided by the ahadith therein. It is an extremely technical work, closer to a fiqh text some would argue, than a standard hadith reference. Only one not versed in the proper manner of learning this Deen would think it suffices to just pluck hadith from it and bandy them about casually without consequence and repercussion in the hereafter. So we should all take heed and fix up, before that day we are all taken to task.

The preceding eight paragraphs were not personal to you, but apply to all of us who are complicit in such heedlessness. Some are those who only seek a relationship with the Blessed Sunnah. Others are they who also yearn for that relationship with our Beloved Rasul’Allah, sallallahu alayhi wassalam. Let me relate one true story in relation to how much value our Ulema place on the latter:

One of our eminent teacher’s – hafiDHahullah – father was a great scholar. He – rahimahullah – was taking his son (i.e. our teacher) to a class one day. Bombs started to reign down around them, destroying buildings, damaging roads. His father – rahimahullah – continued walking to the darse, unaffected by the bombs. Walking with a single-minded intention and purpose. He – rahimahullah – arrived and delivered the darse as per schedule, like always. Because the worth of transmitting this Sacred Knowledge, was greater than life itself. This is the honour shown to our Sacred Tradition. To the legacy of our Beloved Rasul’Allah, sallallahu alayhi wassalam. Is it any wonder Allah ta’ala grants His tawfiq [success] to the efforts of such individuals, in whose hands is entrusted this affair? When measured against that standard, I could never expect to be granted fiqh [deep understanding] of this Deen, were I so casual with my respect towards it, even in relation to something so insignificant as a post on a messageboard. Words are easy, ahwal [states of being] are far harder. Islam isn’t just something we do, when at a class, or a talk, or on Eid, or in an online forum. It is something we are, a state we should strive to be in, always. Care with the little things will manifest into the larger matters. As they say in English, look after the pennies and the pounds will take care of themselves. So don’t underestimate the matter of such benedictions when mentioning Rasul’Allah – sallallahu alayhi wassalam – or the Ennobled Companions, radhi’Allahu anhum ajmaen. For you might earn more thawab [reward] for a single salat/salam upon the Messenger of Allah – alayhis salatu wassalam – than from your entire post. Indeed, whilst there is no guarantee that this post will count for you favourably in the akhira, Allah ta’ala has guaranteed the reward of sending salat & salam upon Rasul’Allah – sallallahu alayhi wassalam – so who is it who would short-sightedly trade that which is sure, for that which is unsure? And is there any amongst us who has enough credit in our account, to not need that guaranteed thawab?

“in situations I have no personal knowledge of I would always give the muslim the benefit of a doubt over the disbeliever”

As is common with people when they either haven’t studied things properly, or don’t think things through well enough, you make a general statement, in this case directly from the Qur’an, rather than from those mufassireen [exegetes] who best understand the Qur’an. So let us test the truth-value of this proposition. Suppose you are present in the courtroom watching a jury listen to the case of a Muslim man who was accused of killing your Muslim neighbour (Allah ta’ala forbid). And an expert witness was brought in, who was non-Muslim; a specialist in forensic science. He explained how the evidence proves without doubt that the Muslim defendant is guilty, because his DNA was found on the bullet which was taken out of the victim’s chest, along with on the gun that fired the bullet, and the residue around the chamber – which was a time-specific stain - matched that which was found on his fingers afterwards, thereby placing him at the scene of the crime. But the Muslim defendant claims he was at home, though he has no evidence or witnessed to corroborate that alibi.

Will you side with the Muslim against the disbeliever because your “mentality is always Muslims against disbelievers”? Indeed, is that even what Islam requires of you in this situation? Whosoever, from the folk of knowledge, told you to impose such a principle upon yourself? Or did you self-impose that which isn’t binding, upon your neck?

There are times and there are places, when a Muslim gives the husn al-dhann [benefit of the doubt] to another Muslim. But this is not some absolute rule which can be applied as a sweeping generalisation in the manner you’ve expressed, which is careless and dangerous.

 “May Allah guide us all to proper knowledge and understanding (Allah knows best)”

Ameen. I remind myself to remember that proper knowledge and understanding doesn’t come from quoting hadith and ayats. It comes from sitting with the inheritors of our Beloved Prophet – alayhis salatu wassalam – who not only transmitted the Qur’an and Sunnah, but preserved the transmission of the authentic understanding of both. And indeed, as many Ulema have attested, knowledge isn’t taken from books (and by extension, the web), for the keys to it are the Ulema.

Forget getting caught up in what is politically in/correct, one shouldn’t get caught up in the cut-and-paste of haste.

Wallahu ta'ala a'lam, all good is from Him, azza wa jal, only the mistakes have been mine.

Abu Khaled
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« Reply #20 on: Jan 10, 2010 03:26 PM »

using the word "we" I was implying the human race but you are right I should have chosen a better phase or word for example:  alot of us, some of us or most of us.In reference to the fatwa, I was pointing out the fact that if a person only went by the one they just released a person who didn't know about any other one may have not understood about their position on the other matter, yes they are not obligated to release their opinion on the other aspect but it may have benefited others if they released that position along with this one for clarity.And for the amount of Imams that would satisfy me it is always the majority. And when I refer to a hadith I post it in the exact manner in which it was written from where I got it  this is so that I relay it in the manner in which it was related. I do not add to it or subtract from it. Yes I do use the (saw) and because of your comments about that I need to take a look at that and see if it is properAnd for the example you used for my statement "in situations I have no personal knowledge of I would always give the muslim the benefit of a doubt over the disbeliever" if I was there hearing the facts then wouldn't I have a basic  knowledge of the situation then so of course I would side on the side of justice. Just because my mentality is muslim over the disbeliever it doesn't mean I would chose falsehood over truth please grasp that understanding .(Allah knows best)                I would like to thank you for those things that you have brought to my attention. May Allah guide us all to knowledge and proper understanding.

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« Reply #21 on: Jan 10, 2010 06:50 PM »

Salaam alikoum

Well for most of you who know me, know that i dont speack english and that i started an interfaith dialogue and i am still "fighting" there to convey the message. AlhamduliAllah most of time i realise how important what i am trying to do...I have so much stories from the Christian whom helped me to find a mosque ...to My story when i was labbeled terrorist and  banned for few weeks but countining my " fighting" by emails, I am still (respected) on that forum. Ok the way westerns understand respect.

Today i am pleased to read your letter, i may have feeling and ideas Sis Jannah but most of time i am in lack of English words . Thank you for this letter.

I will need to copy paste it when i quote some comment from here i say its a friend comment and that i agree with just to declare that they are not my own words but my own thought.

I have so much stories to tell but this is what i want to share with you about T(errorism)

All you remember this story Jet passenger 'tried to light explosive' 

Plz see what i have been ( respectefully ) told
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Mohammed, what are you guys doing about stopping these freaks attacking Western civilians in aeroplanes, and elsewhere?


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Mate, my Family and I (we spend much of our time in aeroplanes) would be very appreciative if you spent much more of your time and energy in doing all you can to stop these Moslem/El Queda attacks on Westerners who make a simple decision to fly from here to there in a plane.

These days, that decision is influenced by a concern about whether one of your lot will also be on board with a bomb.

You, as a Moslem, must deal with it, and until you do, those Moslems who kill us, or try to, in name of Allah bring suspicion upon all of ye.


This the link where you can see my "fighting" my way of daawa

An other member ( A lady) :
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I understand your post Mohamed, and you have explained yourself well.
No, we shouldn't generalize, and this goes for all religions.
But, sadly, I think that generalize is exactly what will happen, and it happens because people don't know how to tell the difference between a good Muslim, who believes and wants peace, And one who is radical, and hates all westerners.
Because I have known you for so long, I know how you have been hurt by such generalization, also how you live and believe in the Islam you have shared with us.
But, not all who call themselves Muslims are peace loving, some believe it is the will of God to kill westerners, whom they refer to as infidels.
And until all Muslims become the peace loving people you are ( red rose.gif ), I doubt that generalization will stop.
Even the knowledge that fellow Muslims have often been the target of radicals, won't stop the generalization that your faith is to be feared.
And because of that, good Muslims, like yourself, will continue to be hurt, and be asked to answer for the radicals.


and an other lady
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The militants aren't practising Islam at all, in fact the Koran forbids action that takes out innocent bystanders.

The structure of the religion, as I understand it, makes it more difficult to control the crazies - there's no pyramid-style power organisation that leads up to some recognised controlling body. Any mullah can set up his own little splinter group, and teach pretty much whatever he wants to.

It's time the moderate muslim majority started to clean up the raving nutters on the outer limits.

That being said, look at all the reactionary Christian crazy groups too. Are we all responsible for the Ku Klux Klan? Scientology? All those cults like the Little Pebble and that nasty group in New Zealand? Every religion has some nasty splinter groups on the outer fringes. It's not the religion itself that causes it, it's the psychological problems of the ones who set up and join those groups. All extremists are pretty much the same, and they want the same things - they want to control others and force them to follow whatever is the 'true path' at the time.


should write all my stories to my sons to teach them ...

Honestely, i realised that  Muslim woman have her way to "fight"  too.

I was ( gené  sorry its french word i am in lack of word right now ) so i was "gené" disturbed  when a Christian ( friend)  called me and My Wife knew for the first time that i am in contact with a  woman. I was worry when she knew about her " she may bad though ,  i hide to dont hurt her and i was waiting she ( mean wife) will be ready to know about my " aventures " sorry an other french word, my " aventures"  when making daawah to ladies too...

Dont worry my wife gave me Green light she trust in me and inshaallah i willbe always trustful

Before i told my wife just that "a" christian said and did ( sent gifts for our children ... )

she didnt ask ? who was exctely the " a" christian so i was not lying Smiley
.....
....
That I know that i will not end my talking for some one in lack of words most of time. haha

I end by this : last summer we did return the best by the best we did send gifts for their children ...

Salaam

This is the link http://littleozzybloke.com/lobdc1/index.php?showtopic=20690&hl=

plz note that not what is posted there is good but still five years from when i began with them in that website see also what is posted there

but This is an other Christian talkig
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Thank you all for the positive responses.
No, I do not think women are necessarily stupid, but, if you believe the Bible, it was Eve, not Adam who was deceived, by Satan, in the Garden, and is why she was forbidden to handle the Word.

Going to church is fine, and I have no objection to anyone going to church, we are instructed to have fellowship one with another, and even more so as we see the day approaching.

Christains should get together, but if we become dependant on the church rather than the Author of the Book, as did Israel, we can easily find ourselves following the doctrines of man, not God.

Remember, it was the 'church', the religious leaders of Israel that nailed their Messiah on the cross, and we are warned that, in the last days, which is now, I believe, the Gentile church would make the same mistake Israel did and crucify unto themselves the Son of God afresh.

Christians should go to fellowship, but be sure they are not getting lost in the religiosity, the doctrine and dogma of man, lest they again find they have been misled.
That it is a comfort to you, dadsk, is great and I apologize if my writing offended you.
What is said in my writing is never to be taken in a personal context, nor as an attack on anyone, it is just how things appear from where I sit.


and i am in lack of words

and i am in lack of words Thank you Choukran

Salaam




 



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« Reply #22 on: Jan 11, 2010 12:00 PM »

as salaamu alaykum,

oooohhh I have so many things I need to say in this post.  but I don't have time right now.  But stay tuned - tonight inshaAllah.

salaam,

7
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« Reply #23 on: Jan 13, 2010 11:05 AM »

Salaam,

As mentioned, it's a joke that terrorists follow any kind of Ulema. It's funny many terrorists claim to be big followers of  "the Salaf". Good articles from their own scholars against terrorism:

The Evils of Terrorism- Clarifying the fact that terrorism is clearly not from Islam

A Critique of the Manhaj of Anwar al-Awlaki and his Errors in the Fiqh of Jihaad in Light of the Qur'aan, Sunnah and Classical to Contemporary Scholars of Ahl us-Sunnah

Is Salafiyyah a Cause of Terrorism? - Response to an NYPD report

Does Saudi Arabia preach intolerance and hatred in the west?

The Ideology of Terrorism and Violence in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia: Its origins, the reasons for its spread and the solution
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« Reply #24 on: Jan 14, 2010 03:24 AM »

as salaamu alaykum,

oooohhh I have so many things I need to say in this post.  but I don't have time right now.  But stay tuned - tonight inshaAllah.

salaam,

7

We're waaaaaaaiting   purplehijabisis
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