// Disconnected husband..?
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« on: May 07, 2010 01:03 AM »


Assalamualaikum all

I am going through a difficult time...I need to make a decison and thought I could do with some naseeha from board members.

I have been married for 9+ years now and have three beautiful children alhamdulillah. My eldest is 5.

My husband is from the sub continent, while I was brought up overseas, it was a totally arranged marriage. My problem is that we have nothing in common, and live our own lives. This has occured somehow over the years as my husband is very disconnected from me, he has time only for himself (sport, gym, work) and is also unfortunately very very stingy. He even does the grocery shopping himself, objects to my having friends and family around, and also does not like to have any conversation with me himself either.   He lives his own life, and is quite unsocial. He is also not very good with the children and deals with them very harshly.  Basically we live a mechanical life, centred around work, food, and sleep. He picks fights with me over the most trivial issues (electricity bill, water bill, phone bill!)There are no plans for the family over weekends or public holidays, if i do make any plans/invite people over I end up managing everything completely on my own, and this can be quite tiring around little kids. 99% of our social contacts are initiated and maintained by myself. He also stopped going to the masjid about 2.5 years ago even though we live within 5 mins walking distance. Dont get me wrong, he does go for juma, prays at home and fasts his ramadan. Unfortunately though a few years ago I did discover he was into pronography on the internet..since then though I THINK he may not be in it anymore. Though he is on the computer a lot.

The result of the above is a very tense and cold house of two very angry parents, kids being disciplined ALL the time, and its like there is a curfew around the house all the time when he is around. He does not partcipate in the tarbiyah of the children (secular or islamic), does not have any fikar for the future of his family. Enjoys his own life in his own way, he is successful engineer, plays sport, leaves the kids on me ALL the time. (we dont have breakfast together even on weekends as he would be sleeping in while i have to manage the kids myself from 6-7 am) If I want to go somewhere once in a blue moon, I have to fight with him to look after the kids, or take them all with me. However when we have guests around us, he can put on a completely different show infront of them and do all the things he is supposed to.. A natural consequence of all this is that I am not always able to say "yes" to him when he calls me as I am either too exhausted or just plain not interested.

One crucial thing is that my husband does the dishes every night, while i appreciate that, I am to take this as his involvement with the family.

It's impossible to write everything down, but basically, I am in a loveless marriage which i have been dealing with but have come to realise that while it is possible to live this way for the sake of the kids, but it is quite impossible to do a good job with their tarbiyah with him and i being completely on different pages and leading disconnected lives. I have tried numerous times to get him to join in some tafseer cds, islamic cds to no avail. Most importantly my own imaan and tawa have been and re always constantly being compromised due to the conflicting relationship. Last year I forced him to do some mariiage counselling through a qualified muslim over the internet. However that did not last as we woulld never do the tasks assigned to before the next meeting. The counsellor told me my husband has a personality disorder and is unlikely to change as he is not willing to see his mistakes.

I have started full time work alhamdulillah after taking some time off with the kids and am able to support myself. Recently I decided to take my case to a local imaam and tried to explain the situation and get his advice. However my husband is very clever and made it sound like I am in the wrong as he is not able to get his "right" from me all the time. The imaam however told me that he does not see my situation as a case for divorce and that I may have to answer to Allah if I push for it. He ofcourse does not see the emptyness I and my kids live in. And my husband has refuted everytrhing i said to the imaam (behind my back though..).

Please advise me. After the meeting with the imaam my husband has started going to the masjid, once again seems to be 'changing' but I am not sure.. as he has put on a show too many times to get me to relax and then once again gone back to old habits. I am totally sick of this and wish to have peace and concentrate solely on the humongous task of bringing up my three beautiful children. What's to say he is not putting on another temporary show again?

Thanks and wassalam.

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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2010 04:13 AM »

salaam

wow that is tough. And you have three children while the oldest is only five? If you are living in the west its very hard. First I think you need a break, do you have family or friends that can help you with the children?

I'm sure its also extremely hard on the children because they are just innocents and don't understand. They need to be treated very gently and with lots and lots of love.
If you feel he is harsh then when the children are not there ask him calmly with a 'please' to be gentle to them.

That is cool that you tried counseling but I think the  main reason he might have not completed his tasks was because he was forced into it? We are all adults and naturally we don't like to be forced into anything. Of course for the sake of his marriage and children he should have been willing to do it himself. But maybe this was not his kind of thing. Maybe he needs something face to face? Did you ask him what he would like to do, or what kind of things he is willing to do. Make it clear to him that you guys do need help and something does need to be done. If not you can make it clear that everyone is only hurting this way.

Quote
The result of the above is a very tense and cold house of two very angry parents, kids being disciplined ALL the time, and its like there is a curfew around the house all the time when he is around.

I know you are  not happy and stressed but we have to remember its a short life and these are innocents, please treat them gently. I think there is a hadith about treating the kids gently. This anger can have long term affects on the children.

You said that you guys do not go out on a public holiday, request it. Request to your husband that his kids need to get out and you all need to enjoy as a family and this is what you guys want and need. Be very frank with what you want and need. Request family time once a week.

Do istikhara every day. Also if he does not want to listen to Islamic Cd. That is fine, request but don't push. His choice. Maybe there is something else he would rather do. Find out what events are going on in your local masjid. Be ready with all the info and Ask if you can go.
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« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2010 08:14 PM »

salam


Only you can judge whether you can continue to live within your current existence.


It wont be easy divorcing with three children I assume from the age of the eldest the youngest is just a baby, you'll have to figure out practicalities like childcare etc while you work. And if I were you I'd work them out on a worse case scenario basis, ie that their father will not help out at all should you leave (if he does then wonderful if he doesn't you were expecting it and had it worked out).
Sit down and figure out a monthly budget, ie groceries, clothes, electricity gas, rent etc etc, just so you have an idea of what your taking on.


Do Istikhara, and then live your life for yourself holding strong to your deen (pray salat, don't miss a single one out if possible), forget the neighbours and what everyone else says, you will get the men (mostly of the bearded religious pretension) who will tell you, you're going to burn in hell, that you are of no value now and you should perhaps expect to be wife number four to a toothless old man or your expectations are too high etc etc
If its' possible try arranging mediation with family members first (yours and his as recommended).

Of course you will answer for your actions, as will every man woman and child. Which is why you do Istikhara, and trust implicitly in the mercy of Allah.


It's your life, if you find your husband to be a man you cannot live with in love and kindness, I would do Istikhara, and forget what anyone else thinks.

Btw, in case you were wondering, divorce, is life draining, emotionally, mentally and financially. But if you come out the other side, and think if you were to go over it all again you would calmly do the same all over again...then you've made the right decision.



Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2010 08:57 PM »

salam

Dear sister, I can only imagine how hard things are  for you ...

While love between  spouses will strengthen their marriage,  not all marriages have this ingredient all the time.  In some marriages, love starts to fade over the years and is replaced by appreciation, gratitude and friendship. In other marriages, love is not present  from the outset, but it kinda grows as the couple grow, Some marriages, especially few generations ago, never had the romantic love that we see on TV.

Respect on the other hand is, in my opinion, an essential ingredient for a marriage to survive. So are forgiveness and forgetfulness.  

I am not saying that your husband has no flaws, nor am I saying that you have not tried hard enough to get him to change, it just is human nature make us resist radical change.  We evolve though and change a bit but over time.  Divorce may not be a good long term solution in your situation.  It may give you an initial, short lived relief from the constant and acute stress and anger, but then what?  Being a single mother is very hard and might prove even more stressful in the long run.  Allah should suffice in any situation.

Give him time, and give yourself time.  Try to get help with the kids from somewhere else other than you husband.  Can you have a part time nanny come to help you out?  Do what you can to relax so that you don't take your anger on the kids or each other.  

I can sense that you are a fair reasonable person who does not deny that your husband has some  good qualities, so alhamdolellah.  Keep looking for those good traits, without setting your expectations too high.    You might get surprised.

I hope this helps.

take care.
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2010 09:05 PM »

Walaikum salaam,

I'm not married and have never been married so you can take this with a grain of salt! But I've definitely seen my share of marriages gone bad. One of the things I've seen is where the wife sacrifices, sacrifices, sacrifices all through the beginning of the marriage, has kids and everything and then just keeps on sacrificing. Even though she protests to various things ie the husband not helping around the house, not helping with the kids, no social life, not letting her do various things etc they just keep going like that. And then after a number of years... can even be like 10 years or whatever, she all of a sudden can't take it anymore. She sets down the ultimatums. The husband is floored. He knows all what happened before but she was fine before so can't figure out what's going now. Everyone else around her is clueless as well. Then the worst happens, the husband refuses to change because he's 'used to it now' or thinks everything was fine before so doesn't see the need. The wife refuses to go back to that life where she was unappreciated, didn't like the way things were etc. So divorce....

Regardless if that is your situation or not, the only solution for something like that is for both people to see the need to start over and start again. It takes a LOT of work to work through everything in the past, release it and start over again. Basically it's like getting married again. I don't know how the wife would get this across to a husband who never saw anything that happened before as wrong.

Seems like you went to the Imam but he didn't understand everything you said above. I'd suggest going again, alone with the Imam at first and tell him the list of problems of things that happened in the past. Then you need to go with your husband, not just for one session but many sessions and you need to work on all those things and start over. Sometimes it's good to have second parties like someone from your family/side and someone from his to be mediators in the middle too because there can be a lot of emotion between just the two of you.

Allahu alam. If the Imam doesn't work, get a real in-person marriage counselor. Lots of istikharah and prayers help too. We will be praying for you,
wsalam




 
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« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2010 02:10 AM »

Assalamualaikum all

Jazakallah indeed for your responses. Totally appreciate all the advice.

Yes I live in the west, and it has been very very hard taking care of all the children myself all the time. Alhamdulillah they are a bit older now and life is a tad easier but still very stressful. My little one is 2.5. I have felt like a single mother all these years..
I have tried family as well. My parents have spoken to him numerous times, unfortunately his family is quite unaproachable have many unsolved problems of their own.. they basically are not part of our life and live back home. My family also lives in a separate country.

Going to the imaam in the community has come after all else failed. However by going to the imaam I hope to have sent my husband the message that I really cant go on with the way he has been anymore. Alhamdulillah at present we are in 're-conciliatory mood' and he is doing things. In my situation the irony is that he KNOWS he is doing wrong but keeps trying to get away from his responsibilities. Sadly this is the kind of father he had, and yes history does repeat itself.

While I still pray and hope my marriage works out and yet another muslim home does not add to the statistics, I really feel our imaams can be quite bad at marriage counselling at times and fail to see the suffering of the wife and forget that Allah in his infinite mercy has allowed divorce in our religion. I also have realised the wisdom in the permission of Khula. Certainly only an oppressed wife knows what she is going through though things may seem normal on the outside. Providing food and shelter do not count in the long run as being the major role a man has to play as a husband and father. (The imaam told me to acknowledge my husband provides for me and supposedly thus is good enough..)

Alhamdulilah I started working full time this year and my children are already tuned into childcare arrangements.

I guess it really boils down to demanding one's rights in a marriage like this. This is where my problem is. I always let things ago and then before I know it, I am trampeled all over:-(!!

May Allah grant us all the hidayah and hikmah to deal with the trials and tribulations of this life, ameen.

My advice to single sisters: THINK, RESEARCH, ANALYSE CAREFULLY before agreeing to import a husband from overseas!! More likely than not, there will be long term implications of the clash of ideologies and culture. During our engagement, my husband echoed my thoughts and seemed to be perfect and just the right person, yet after we got married, with time, his true nature and outlook in life turned out to be oceans away from mine:-(.

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« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2010 11:17 AM »

salam


I'm divorced now.

But looking at marriages like this, I really am not the kind of person to demand anything, I tend to make my own little world, I do not demand my rights not ever, I can't and could not live like that.


Which is why the thought of being married makes my skin crawl, desi men tend to behave like this, like kings and that their wives have been bought as they pay for the housing and food for their family, therefore their wives must dance at the click of their fingers..... I would go as far as to say imams collude in this abhorrent treatment of wives, because they say as yours did you must concede to your husbands superiority as he shoulders his financial repsonsibility!!!!!!
On the other hand I have always worked and have paid my way always and yet I was still expected to serve all of ex's demands/put up with utterly unacceptable behaviour on top of that, I was told at one point I was in the wrong for having a job, altho to be honest had I not worked I would have been helpless for every little thing as ex did not spend on me or my girls.

I would suggest you look into what your legal rights would be in the event of divorce, and also have a look at solicitors fees, they tend to be extortionate.

Would it help if you guys sat down and thrashed out an agreeement, ie this is what you expect of him without having to fight every inch, and this is what he expects of you? and then put it up somewhere as a reminder to both of you?


Many duas sis.


Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2010 09:30 AM »


My advice to single sisters: THINK, RESEARCH, ANALYSE CAREFULLY before agreeing to import a husband from overseas!! More likely than not, there will be long term implications of the clash of ideologies and culture. During our engagement, my husband echoed my thoughts and seemed to be perfect and just the right person, yet after we got married, with time, his true nature and outlook in life turned out to be oceans away from mine:-(.

May Allah make it easy for you and give you the best, whatever it may be. From your desciption of the problem, the Right is definitely on ur side.

I beg to differ on the above para. In cases where coulpes date, live together, out of wedlock, for the sake of knowing each other well for years and then get mattied... and still end up with the same mess.

duas


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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2010 12:15 PM »

salam


I guess with marriage there is always an element of risk taking or a leap of faith.

You really cannot tell what a person is like till you're married and even then wait till the honeymoon period is over before they actually show their true colours.

As a rule of thumb, most desi men only marry girls from the western world for the colour of their passports, all the nice genuine guys back home were engaged from the age of something like five (least in our social circle they do!)!

We can only research, see how the women in the family of any potential suitor are treated/educated, and trust implicitly in Allah.



Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2010 02:53 AM »

Assalamalaikum Sister,
Your story was absolutely heart-rending. I pray that Almighty Allah makes it easy for both of you, and for your wonderful kids.

Being the mother or father of three is not an easy job. Especially when they are young like 5, 3 and 2.

Instead of spending money on a marriage counselor, I suggest that you get a baby-sitter once in a while and spend time doing things together. You need the break. Go see and movie, walk around downtown, work together on a charity for orphans. Yes, I am advocating a date-night once a month at least. Everyone needs something too look forward to.

I would not write your husband off just yet. You've spent 9+ years with him, and he seems to have some good traits. He's a dependable provider, and has some attachments to the masjid, and is a follower of Rasul'Allah. It's too easy to focus on the negatives and overlook the positives. We have to be grateful for what we have so that Almighty Allah puts his barakah into it.

I have friends who are divorced. It's not an easy situation to be. The ones without kids spend all their time watching TV, or going to sleep at 7 in the evening as they have nothing to do. The one with kids find that their children go out of control without a father's influence. In particular, with daughters it is more of a challenge.. they attain puberty early and seek out male company quickly due to the hormonal impact of the missing father.

Men may appear to be insensitive, but in reality have very fragile egos. I know that I would be very hurt if I was treated with disrespect by my wife, and despite my attempts at patience, would be open to the whispering of the shaitan. It something just the choice of words or the tone that causes this.

In Islam, even a smile is considered to be charity, and the best way of removing rancour from the hearts is by the giving of gifts.

For a while, don't put an emphasis on your social life, the way the house looks and the million and one activities around the kids (don't let everything go to the dogs either... just deemphasize). Spend some time making yourselves happy. You probably only see your husband for a few hours a day (when he comes back from the office).. act like a 20 something around him when he's home (just acting can make you feel different BTW). Make the weekends fun. Visit the zoo, go for a hike, and make it a big family fun activity. Take pictures and view them with your husband later. Eat out. Collect good memories.

Spending special time together is also a wonderful form of sadaqah. The more you spend time together, the closer you will feel.

My wife and I budget some money every month for 'fun'. Once you have a budget agreed upon, there is no reason to argue over whether to do something, buy something etc.. you spend until the budget is exhausted :-) .. and after that you either have fun with less of a spend or wait until the next month. This is a systematic way to completely side-step this one communication issue... there is a solution for every problem, take heart and persevere.

This life is too short to focus on the obsessions that the Shaitan place on us. Our love is for Allah, whom we will meet inevitably. Why not take this opportunity to make your life in this world a pleasure, and please Allah in the process as well?
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« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2010 10:55 AM »

Assalamualaikum

Thanks sis Fozia.

Yes that is true..it is impossible for me to keep demanding my rights on a daily basis. Which is why such desi men keep getting their way.

I don't know. It's a very difficult life to live, yet I remind myself Allah out of His Wisdom chose this man for me, granted me three beautiful healthy children alhamdulillah.

Also I am quite concerned about the effect of divorce on the children's personalities.. But that is also counter to the affect of bringing them up in a conflicting household.

May Allah make things easy for you and your girls as well, ameen.

Take care and wassalam.

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« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2010 05:39 PM »

salam

I'm not advocating divorce or staying within an unhappy marriage. It's really not my life to dictate to someone how they should live.

The children thing is very dependant on how the resident parent handles the divorce and the ensuing fallout (there will always be fallout from a divorce).

My girls are actually happier and more outgoing now after my divorce, they see their father under supervised conditions and this seems to be working well alhumdulillah.

According to my own experience showing the children you love them a huge deal, and reassuring them the divorce had nothing to do with them, that they are no less loved is imperative. I've also taken step to ensure my children are not exposed to the cruel finger pointing within our community in that I do not socialise with people who disapprove of my divorce, my children's childminder does not know my family, she is a wonderful muslimah who treats them like her own children Alhumdulillah!
My own family are also under strict instructions not to ever say anything negative about them with regards their father ie if they're naughty, nobody blames it on their fathers bad blood not ever! My girls benefit from the normality of loving male role models in the form of my dad and my brother, so they see what a real man is supposed to be like and how he should treat his family.

I've also got the school on side explained my situation and told them to inform me of even the slightest sign of either child showing signs of distress or unsettled behaviour, alhumdulillah the school is a small very supportive Islamic school.

At the beginning it was really sad and difficult, as my eldest wanted a dad, the bizarre thing is tho when I asked her if she wanted daddy to live with us again, she replied 'no mummy I want a nice daddy....' and that really wasn't in my hands.

My girls were 5 and 3.5 when I initiated divorce proceedings, they're older now and very happy, amongst the top of the class, considered amongst the gifted and talented at school, and very much liked by their teachers and peers.

I refuse to be guilted into staying within an intolerable marriage for the sake of the children, the amazing change in my girls from the timid little shadows to the boisterous and happy little girls they are now, sometimes shocks me. I don't take divorce lightly, which is why I always suggest istikhara in any decision one ever makes. But staying for the sake of the children is not a good enough reason, unless the reason for divorce is something ridiculous like he leaves the toilet seat up.....



Wassalaam


And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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