// NY Times: Imam Anwar's Journey from Condemning Terror to Preaching Jihad
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se7en
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« on: May 09, 2010 08:03 AM »


as salaamu alaykum,

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/world/09awlaki.html?src=twr&pagewanted=all

from the article:

There are two conventional narratives of Mr. Awlaki’s path to jihad. The first is his own: He was a nonviolent moderate until the United States attacked Muslims openly...
A contrasting version of Mr. Awlaki’s story... maintains that he was a secret agent of Al Qaeda starting well before the attacks... By this account, all that has changed since then is that Mr. Awlaki has stopped hiding his true views.


It is interesting that they want to promote the idea that Anwar al-Awlaki held these extremist views "all along", even early on when he was condemning 9/11 and talking about the need for communication and building bridges, etc.  By extension people may assume this is the case with all Muslims; that even when they outwardly profess condemnation or disagreement with terrorism, they are secretly in support of it and just waiting for the opportune moment to manifest it...  So instead of only worrying about Muslims getting radicalized, now people will think they are all radicals anyways- some are just open about it and others hide it.

Also, if he was an operative all along why would he deny it?  It doesn't seem like there's any need for him to be deceitful about his past.

-7
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« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2010 09:14 AM »

UGH! That article is complete BS, like total unbelievable u know what.  Seriously. I didn't realize the NYT could write such total BS speculative retarded fiction garbage as reporting. (I'm watching V at the moment. Reminds me of the propaganda the aliens used to manipulate humans and make whoever they wanted into an enemy. And stupid humans fall for it of course.) Seriously you guys know how I feel about Awlaki and whatever, but this really makes me wonder who is putting all these things together against Muslims. The picture here is so perfectly painted for us. All these "related" elements and insidious "quotes" and "connections" are brought together to paint this view. It's soo. unfreakingly unbelievably. perfect. the last time this happened was 1 year before the invasion of Iraq when all these "perfect" things started appearing too.

oh yeah and didn't you read here how he knew about 9/11 before too... and oh yeah he probably planned it all too. and oh yeah the neighbors always thought he was "a little strange" too and said "ominous" little things too like "u probably won't see me again I"M MOVING". That's definitely an evil secret suicide bomber preacher guy terrorist undercover right there. It's like whoever is coming up with stuff every week is stuck on the same program. can't they write any other fiction today. fiction that isn't so perfectly garbage.


Follow me here, read the article again, tell me you don't see it...

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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2010 11:06 AM »

is it really true that he was arrested for soliciting prostitutes, not once, but twice???

has anybody heard this before?

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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2010 11:16 AM »

as salaamu alaykum,

I talked to someone who was in his community in California at the time those charges came about.  They told me that the masjid board told the community that this was part of the FBI's efforts to discredit him, by sending one of those women to his door and implicating him, etc. and that the charges were later dropped.  The FBI at that time was pushing him hard, questioning him, following him, most likely planting agents in the community, etc as we all know they do, and I wouldn't put it beneath them to use unethical methods to get what they want from someone (which they have done in many other communities).  I think that for a solicitation charge though, there has to be more than simply someone knocking on your door... but really who knows?  

When these allegations started being spread in the media, when Anwar al-Awlaki came back into the spotlight, the person I know tried to look into the public records of the case but nothing is available to the public on it.

I would take everything we read in these types of cases with a grain of salt, and withhold judgment unless absolutely necessary.

Allah knows best.

salaam
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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2010 05:38 AM »

Asalaamu Alaikum bro

Quote
I would take everything we read in these types of cases with a grain of salt, and withhold judgment unless absolutely necessary

That’s probably very sound advice.

It seems that in this day and age, everyone ‘spins’ their story to suit themselves and for those who want to actually access the truth, it can sometimes be a well nigh impossible task.

Say: "O ye my servants who believe! Fear your Lord, good is (the reward) for those who do good in this world. Spacious is God's earth! those who patiently persevere will truly receive a reward without measure!" [39:10]
jannah
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« Reply #5 on: Sep 30, 2011 09:41 PM »

News that the US killed him today along with others via drone.

This was probably a bad idea because...

1. Articles build him up to be a diabolical double crossing spy/alqaida mastermind who single handedly planned and carried out 9/11 and also visited prostitutes while being a mild mannered muslim preacher who liked to fish in the neighborhood. Ridiculous. The truth and lies about him are so twisted now. NonMuslims will read this and be so happy that an OBL like figure was eliminated and Muslims will read this and wonder about what is really going on. In the end, the fight against terrorism has not been helped in the way it could have if the discourse had been honest and straight forward.

2. He did not get a trial. Someone somewhere decided to eliminate him based on whatever they thought, and no matter what the cost. And they did kill him regardless of any laws or international laws. The least they could have done is make up some kind of military tribunal or say a panel of judges or committee decided??

3. This will make him into a martyr for anyone who wants to make him into one.

4. This is a very sad end to someone who had so much potential for dawah and good. There is no denying his later years were just a downward negative spiral but as someone who listened to his first tapes which were so motivational towards good things it makes me shake my head at what could have been.


==============================



Imam’s Path From Condemning Terror to Preaching Jihad


WASHINGTON — In the weeks after the Sept. 11 attacks, the eloquent 30-year-old imam of a mosque outside Washington became a go-to Muslim cleric for reporters scrambling to explain Islam. He condemned the mass murder, invited television crews to follow him around and patiently explained the rituals of his religion.

  “We came here to build, not to destroy,” the cleric, Anwar al-Awlaki, said in a sermon. “We are the bridge between Americans and one billion Muslims worldwide.”

At first glance, it seemed plausible that this lanky, ambitious man, with the scholarly wire-rims and equal command of English and Arabic, could indeed be such a bridge. CD sets of his engaging lectures on the Prophet Muhammad were in thousands of Muslim homes. American-born, he had a sense of humor, loved deep-sea fishing, had dabbled in get-rich-quick investment schemes and dropped references to “Joe Sixpack” into his sermons. A few weeks before the attacks he had preached in the United States Capitol.

Nine years later, from his hide-out in Yemen, Mr. Awlaki has declared war on the United States

con't http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/world/09awlaki.html?smid=tw-nytimesglobal&seid=auto
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« Reply #6 on: Sep 30, 2011 11:05 PM »

Salaams -

I was talking about this with akhan bhai in the morning . . was actually looking forward to your thoughts, as I recall that you did watch/listen to his lectures in the early years . . I'll comment more later insha'allah.

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The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another:  [9:71]
se7en
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« Reply #7 on: Oct 01, 2011 09:08 AM »

salaam,

jannah this is an old article isn't it?  I think we discussed it before....
se7en
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« Reply #8 on: Oct 01, 2011 09:09 AM »

salaam,

Here is our previous discussion on it: http://jannah.org/madina/index.php?topic=4267.msg20202#msg20202

and here is another discussion we had about him: http://jannah.org/madina/index.php?topic=4131.msg19442#msg19442
austmuslimah
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« Reply #9 on: Oct 01, 2011 09:39 AM »

Sigh. Sometimes I am so sad when looking at the direction the world is going in.

Its hard to know the truth about anything. I am really inclined to believe this article is very biased, but I cant seem to find something that would show a more truthful aspect to this issue.

jannah
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« Reply #10 on: Oct 01, 2011 09:40 PM »

salaam,

jannah this is an old article isn't it?  I think we discussed it before....

My bad ur right... ppl linked to it so I thought it was part of the recent stuff about him.

And thanks for those previous links. I'll merge I think...

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« Reply #11 on: Oct 02, 2011 12:12 AM »

As a non-muslim but a fellow human being I must bow to your incredible wisdom and insight.  It's almost surreal to think that there are groups of civilized people out there trying to kill each other in the name of religion or land or oil.  There is no right or wrong, only wrong and misguided as you said and a terrible waste.

We as a society (of earthlings) need to realize that the categories we've put ourselves in are arbitrary and dangerous.  Maybe all the brunettes should revolt against all the blondes?

I put religion in the same category as the color of ones hair.  Neither means much to me.  Neither are sacred.

What you've created with this discourse is Sacred.

Lastly, at some point in my life I decided to keep an open mind and an open heart about everything.  I realized that any non violent act, such as visiting a prostitute, is not dishonorable only human.  In a world of rapists and child molesters I applaud anyone who uses this tool for pleasure.

This post submitted using the ANONYMOUS button on the main Madina menu. Please reply here publicly so that the original poster can read any replies.
jannah
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« Reply #12 on: Oct 02, 2011 06:38 AM »

Hi Anonymous,

It is indeed very sad, horrible and deeply troubling to see people killing innocent people in the name of religion, land, or oil like you said. It is even worse when it's done by an institution or government or in the name of "wars" that make no sense. It is truly a shame that we live in a world like this.

As you said, everyone has the right to their own choices in regards to religion. And we should respect each other's differences and choices. But I would contend that it is not religion that has led us to the state of the world today. It is people and the misuse of religion.

An open mind and an open heart is truly a beautiful thing and I commend you. Although I can't agree with you accepting someone going to a prostitute. Yes it may be consensual but it's exploitive of young girls and women. The whole industry is full of degradation and misuse and abuses. Women should not be controlled and used in that way and becoming part of the system is just supporting it and all the things around it ie kidnapping and slavery of women, having pimps and forcing young girls into prostitution, pornography and all the violence that surrounds the whole industry etc etc.

Lastly whatever or whoever he was or wasn't, I for one do not believe even for a second, that he ever went to a prostitute. I wouldn't even discuss this but for he is a public figure and being judged on this as well. Why would he ever need to. He was a well known Imam and Arab, popular, and came from a respected wealthy family. He could have easily had numerous wives here and in Yemen or wherever. The powers that be have used this tactic to discredit other "terrorists" before. (Like the 9/11 bombers going to strip bars and another well known figure later put in jail for some charge or other, same thing) 50% of my money is on it being a setup and 50% of my money is on it being a complete lie. And one day when we find out the truth, you can take that to the bank Smiley

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« Reply #13 on: Oct 02, 2011 08:07 AM »

 salam

Here's Yasir Qadhi's Article about it in the New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/02/opinion/sunday/assassinating-al-awlaki-was-counterproductive.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

(It's also on Muslim Matters)
http://muslimmatters.org/2011/10/02/yasir-qadhi-nytimes-op-ed-an-illegal-and-counterproductive-assassination/
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« Reply #14 on: Oct 02, 2011 10:04 AM »

salaam,

Here's another thread where we discussed Imam Anwar's teachings: http://jannah.org/madina/index.php?topic=4131.msg19424#msg19424
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« Reply #15 on: Oct 02, 2011 09:58 PM »

wsalam,

jazaks for posting the yasir qadhi article. it's really excellent. I've excerpted it here because it needs to be saved and read:

An Illegal and Counterproductive Assassination

By YASIR QADHI
NYT Published: October 1, 2011


ANWAR AL-AWLAKI, the Yemeni-American cleric who was killed Friday in a C.I.A. drone attack in Yemen, appears to be the first United States citizen that our government has publicly targeted for assassination.

The accusations against him were very serious, but as a citizen, he deserved a fair trial and the chance to face his accusers in a court of law. Whether he deserved any punishment for his speech was a decision that a jury should have made, not the executive branch of our government. The killing of this American citizen is not only unconstitutional, but hypocritical and counterproductive.

The assassination is unconstitutional because the Fifth Amendment specifies that no person may “be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” A group of policy makers unilaterally deciding that a particular citizen needs to be targeted is, by no stretch of the imagination, due process.

The assassination is hypocritical because America routinely criticizes (and justifiably so) such extrajudicial assassinations when they occur at the hands of another government. We most certainly don’t approve the regimes of Syria or Iran eliminating those whom they deem to be traitors. In fact, Al Qaeda’s own justifications for murder stem from the notion that its members are qualified to be the judge, jury and executioner of those whom they view as enemies. America’s moral authority is undermined if we criticize in others what we do ourselves. It only reinforces the stereotype that the United States has very little concern for its own principles. Even Nazi war criminals got their day in court, at Nuremburg.

It is ironic to note that those who have actually attempted terrorist attacks on American soil and been caught were read their Miranda rights and went to trial, even though some were not United States citizens. Yet Mr. Awlaki, who has never been accused of himself directly attempting an attack, was not given this chance.

Lastly, the assassination is counterproductive because it feeds into the martyr mythology that makes Al Qaeda’s narrative so different from that of most other terrorist groups.

If our policy makers studied history, they would realize that Sayyid Qutb, a founder of radical Islam, while popular in his life, only achieved his legendary status after the Nasser regime in Egypt had him executed, in 1966. Instantly, his books became (and remain) best sellers. Killing people doesn’t make their ideas go away.

Mr. Awlaki was born in New Mexico in 1971 while his father was pursuing graduate studies. Though his parents returned to Yemen when he was seven, he later returned to the United States to pursue degrees in engineering and education. Eventually, he became an imam, or leader, of a mosque in California and later in Virginia. During these years, it is alleged that he met multiple times with at least three of the 9/11 hijackers. But for many American Muslims, he was only known for one thing: the telling of stories from the Koran. He lectured about the lives of the prophets of God, drawing from traditional Islamic sources (and sometimes even Biblical ones).

His captivating lecture style and copious quotations from classical sources made him extremely popular, especially among American Muslim youth. During these pre-9/11 years, these lectures, still available online, became some of the hottest-selling items at some Islamic conferences across America. At this stage, he was not publicly associated with any radical views. However, after 9/11, he adopted a more adversarial and anti-American tone, eventually moving back to Yemen. He was jailed for two years (and rumored to have been tortured).

It was only after his release that he publicly began supporting Al Qaeda and issuing messages calling for attacks upon the United States. It was alleged that he came into contact with or inspired a number of people to attempt terrorist activities: Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the Army psychiatrist accused in the 2009 killings in Fort Hood, Tex.; Umar Farouk Abdulmuttalib, accused of trying to set off a bomb hidden in his underwear on a 2009 flight to Detroit; and Faisal Shahzad, who tried to blow up a car in Times Square last year.

Mr. Awlaki’s ideas were dangerous. His message that one cannot be a good Muslim and an American at the same time was insulting to nearly all American Muslims. His views about the permissibility of killing Americans indiscriminately were completely at odds with those of mainstream Muslim clerics around the world. He needed to be refuted. And that is why many people, myself included, were extremely vocal in doing just that.

Mr. Awlaki needed to be challenged, not assassinated. By killing him, America has once again blurred the lines between its own tactics and the tactics of its enemies. In silencing Mr. Awlaki’s voice, not only did America fail to live up to its ideals, but it gave Mr. Awlaki’s dangerous message a life and power of its own. And these two facts make the job of refuting that message now even more difficult.
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« Reply #16 on: Oct 03, 2011 12:13 PM »

I really think we should not trust the Zionist Kaffir media. We should take what a brother says and does from his own statements. Not statements from the enemies of Islam.

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« Reply #17 on: Oct 03, 2011 05:25 PM »

Salam,

I removed that link. That type of rhetoric is not correct. Please talk to some real Islamic scholars.

It also is not true that we don't know what he said because it's all "coming from kuffar & the enemies of islam". His later tapes and speeches were recorded and many scholars of Islam refuted his teachings as far back as the late 2000s



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« Reply #18 on: Oct 04, 2011 09:08 AM »

Assalamu alaikum.

I very much agree with brother Yasir Qadhi on the counterproductiveness of the Sheik's assasination. Something dramatcally happened yesterday in our mosque that reminds me of our beloved Sheik here in Nigeria assasinated in 2007. Sheik Jafar Adam's popularity rised tremendously after his killing and people, including his enemies became more attached to his lectures.

I was in mosque after Isha prayer yesterday when somebody played Late Anwar Awlaki's lecture. Previously in the afternoon I watched his video(the video Moderatesufi uploaded on this thread) for the first time. I relished his eloquent and gentle mode of his speech. I wondered how comes I had never listened to this man's lecture (may be because I only know him as an ALqa'ida figure). The brother(let me use brother A for him) that was playing the lecture saw that we were interested in the lecture, incresed the volume a litle. The lecture was on the day of J, so it's a kind that easily attracts one's attention.

 Just a few minutes later brother B entered and asked Brother A who the Sheik is. He said he heard the lecture from outside that he couldnt resist the urge to find out who the scholar is.

"It's the Sheik that was killed in US raid in Yemen last week. I downloaded many of his lectures today from a free download site. The man is just gifted in everything." Brother A said.

"Please you will transfer the files to me if you wont mind." requested Bro B.

"Why would I mind. If you have flash stick I can give you now. Or let me send it to your phone since I have them all in my phone. The lectres are brief and are compressed."

While he was sending the files to Bro B, Bro C from the corner of the mosque who had been reading his lecture notes yelled, "Please brother, can you increase the volume of your speaker?" He dropped his notes and joined in the listening.

As these thing are happening, I was just laughing. My friend asked what I was laughing at. Before I answered him, I first opened this thread and asked him to read bother Qadhi's message. "They have just make this man popular, and it is now that his message will enter everywhere." I concluded.

Before you know it, Brother A was sorrounded by more than 8 people listening to the lecture. I reckoned 3 brothers have the Sheik's lectures transfered to their phone(or PC) and I wouldnt forget about a brother that said he doesnt have computer or multimedia phone and he so much wants to have the lectures. He was advised to buy a CD plate so that they could be burned on it.

Who knows what is happening in other places? This people have just complicated everything. The result will definately be more detrimental I believe.

May Allah shows us the truth and give us the ability to stick to it.

"Whoever rejects false deities and believes in Allah has grasped a firm handhold which will never break." Q 2:256"
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