// Isa/Jesus and question about Quran
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Christine_1208
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« on: Jul 26, 2010 11:32 PM »


Ok, guys I need some help.

My mom got a Quran when I got married from the Masjid. Well I take it she is reading it because she pointed something out to me and said, this mean Jesus died.... She is trying to stay true with the story of the cross/ resurrection.

Surah Mariam, Ayat 33.
"Peace was on me the day I was born. Peace will be on me on the day I will die and on the day I am raised alive again"

I am having the hardest time explaining it to her. I tried but I think I am just confusing her. HELP! I told her this is not proof of the cruxifixion because the Quran says it did not happen, this is when Jesus comes back.

Any advice is helpful. I don't wanna miss this opportunity!!!!!!!!!!!! I sent an email to the Imam, but it usually takes awhile.

THANKS!

I believe in Islam like the sun rising, not because I see it but because by it, I see everything else.
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« Reply #1 on: Jul 27, 2010 03:32 AM »

"will die" should be a clue...future tense... he is not dead yet (peace be upon him and all the messengers) ISA is in heaven right now and will be sent down towards the time of the end of the world. someone was killed on the cross (or it was made to look like that) but it was not Isa.
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« Reply #2 on: Jul 27, 2010 04:16 AM »

Salaams Sister Christine,
What Jesus (AS) will experience is the same that we all do; i.e., we are born, our nafs tastes death and then we are resurrected.

What differs about his experiences (aside from all the special aspect related to prophethood) is that:

1. He had a virgin birth (and so did Adam and Eve/Hawwa)
2. He will experience peace in his death and resurrection (as stated in this ayat), and explained in Tafsir Ibn-Kathir (http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=19&tid=31187)
3. He has been lifted to the heavens and is to return to battle the anti-christ (i.e. he was not crucified). This is similar to what we believe of the prophets Khidr and Ilyas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khidr and http://sunnah.org/msaec/articles/khidr.htm), who will return among us before the coming of the anti-christ (al-dajjal-al-masih).

However, we believe that when Jesus (AS) returns, he will return as a member of the Ummah of the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) (and will actually pray behind the lead of the Islamic community at that point -- known as the Mahdi), will marry (as have all the other prophets) and will ultimately die (and then be resurrected on the day of judgment).

JustOne
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« Reply #3 on: Jul 27, 2010 08:13 AM »

I'm sorry Christine for kind of sidetracking on your thread:

Umm... bro, can you elaborate point #3... I've never heard of that before...
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« Reply #4 on: Jul 27, 2010 02:19 PM »

Sister JustOne,
Even among the Muslims, people don't know much about the second coming of Eesa (AS), the Mahdi and the Dajjal. This is a sign that most of us don't spend time on the hadithes (unfortunately).

There is a 1150 pages+ book published a few weeks ago by Harun Yahya on this topic. Looks like it was custom-compiled to answer your question :-)

http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/27681/THE_PROPHET_JESUS_%28AS%29_AND_HAZRAT_MAHDI_WILL_COME_THIS_CENTURY

He references many of the hadiths that I have come across in the past (and quite a few that I was not aware of).

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« Reply #5 on: Jul 27, 2010 02:38 PM »

Sister Christine,
There is another book by Harun Yahya, which talks about our belief in Jesus (AS).

http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/3294/THE_PROPHET_JESUS_%28PBUH%29_DID_NOT_DIE

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« Reply #6 on: Jul 27, 2010 02:47 PM »

A note of caution. The appearance of the dajjal, the mahdi and Eesa (AS) are all connected with the day of judgment. And, we cannot really know when the day is going to happen (based on the hadith quoted below), so please take the predictions about the time of it's occurrence with a grain of salt. I cannot say that these predictions are true or false, as it is beyond my knowledge and I treat these as just that, predictions and hypotheses, which may or may not come true b'izn'Allah (with the permission of Allah).


Quote
One day while we were sitting with the messenger of Allah there appeared before us a man whose clothes were exceedingly white and whose hair was exceedingly black; no signs of journeying were to be seen on him and none of us knew him. He walked up and sat down by the prophet.
Resting his knees against his and placing the palms of his hands on his thighs, he said:"O Muhammed, tell me about Islam".

The messenger of Allah said: "Islam is to testify that there is no god but Allah and Muhammed is the messenger of Allah, to perform the prayers, to pay the zakat, to fast in Ramadhan, and to make the pilgrimage to the House if you are able to do so." He said:"You have spoken rightly", and we were amazed at him asking him and saying that he had spoken rightly.

He said: "Then tell me about eman."He said:"It is to believe in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day, and to believe in divine destiny, both the good and the evil thereof." He said:"You have spoken rightly".

He said: " Then tell me about ehsan." He said: "It is to worship Allah as though you are seeing Him, and while you see Him not yet truly He sees you".

He said: "Then tell me about the Hour". He said: "The one questioned about it knows no better than the questioner."

He said: "Then tell me about its signs." He said: "That the slave-girl will give birth to her mistress and that you will see the barefooted, naked, destitute herdsman competing in constructing lofty buildings."

Then he took himself off and I stayed for a time. Then he said: "O Omar, do you know who the questioner was?" I said: "Allah and His messenger know best". He said: "He was Jebreel (Gabriel), who came to you to teach you your religion."
Christine_1208
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« Reply #7 on: Jul 27, 2010 05:19 PM »

Thanks guys, I know most of this, I am just trying to find a way of conveying to my mom that the Infant Isa was not forseeing his death on the cross by saying.. Will die and raise. But he was forseeing his return to us where he will taste death and will be raised like us all on the last day.

I have some time, I have her thinking about Judas Iscariot right now...lol She just realized there is no known source for his death. He was one of Jesus's companions, the one the Christian beleive betrayed him for 30 silver peices.

But hey, as long is mom is flipping through Surah's I am not complaining!!!! Not at all.

I believe in Islam like the sun rising, not because I see it but because by it, I see everything else.
JustOne
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« Reply #8 on: Jul 28, 2010 02:57 PM »

Sorry I wasn't clear: I was asking about H. Khidr and ilyas...

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« Reply #9 on: Jul 31, 2010 03:49 AM »

Salaams Sister JustOne,
First, my apologies for the delayed response.

About Khidr, there is some information available at http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/8779/KHIDR_%28AS%29_IS_AMONG_THE_PEOPLE

He is also commonly accepted to be the person that the dajjal will cut in half, make appear as if he was brought back to life and then the dajjal will not be able to kill him again. There is a hadith describing this foretold event.

Khidr prominently figures in many sufi tariqas, and I am sure that 90% of the stuff that you read about him will be false and nothing more than fantasy. However, the link I provided above describes the story of Khidr, Moses and the fish (from the Qur'aan). There are other hadiths as well, so he is definitely not made up.

As for Ilyas (Elijah), I have read in some places that he is supposed to rediscover the 'ark of the covenant' (perhaps along with khidr) just before the arrival of the mahdi. This 'ark of the covenent' is supposed to contain something in it that will remove all the inaccuracies from Christianity and Judaism... and Allah knows best what it contains. Some other scholars are of the opinion that the ark of the covenant is supposed to be discovered by Mahdi, so I am myself a bit confused on this issue. Some info on Ilyas is given here:

http://www.al-huda.com/TPOI_30.htm

As for the ark of the covenant, it is alluded to in the Qur'aan:

Quote
Qur'aan 2:248
YUSUFALI: And (further) their Prophet said to them: "A Sign of his authority is that there shall come to you the Ark of the covenant, with (an assurance) therein of security from your Lord, and the relics left by the family of Moses and the family of Aaron, carried by angels. In this is a symbol for you if ye indeed have faith."


More info on the ark of the covenant is given here:

http://www.harunyahya.net/V2/Lang/en/Pg/WorkDetail/Number/2788

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« Reply #10 on: Jul 31, 2010 02:21 PM »

Okay thank you for the links....

I'm sorry for my incoherence - I use my phone half the time to respond, and there's only so articulate I can be...

lucid
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« Reply #11 on: Aug 01, 2010 07:21 PM »

Sister JustOne,
Even among the Muslims, people don't know much about the second coming of Eesa (AS), the Mahdi and the Dajjal. This is a sign that most of us don't spend time on the hadithes (unfortunately).

There is a 1150 pages+ book published a few weeks ago by Harun Yahya on this topic. Looks like it was custom-compiled to answer your question :-)

http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/27681/THE_PROPHET_JESUS_%28AS%29_AND_HAZRAT_MAHDI_WILL_COME_THIS_CENTURY

He references many of the hadiths that I have come across in the past (and quite a few that I was not aware of).




you should be a bit more careful.  nobody knows too much about the end of days because many hadith regarding it are notoriously weak or fabricated.  books about the end of days are meant more to scare people than portray an accurate picture of the last days -- e.g books by ibn kathir, etc...

finally, harun yahya is not an authority.  please be careful...
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« Reply #12 on: Aug 02, 2010 01:33 AM »

Salaam Alaykum Brother Lucid,
Thank you for the reminder and the advice. I am passing on information that I have, and have tried to qualify it wherever I can with the appropriate caveat emptors.

Notwithstanding the fact that some of the hadiths are weak, there are sufficient hadiths available, even in eminently stringent collections such as Sahih Bukhari, that we can be certain of many of these events and actors that I have alluded to in my posting.

If you find anything wrong or inaccurate in my postings, please do correct them insha'Allah.
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