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Author Topic: Polygany Anyone?  (Read 16909 times)
friendlyandgeeky
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« Reply #25 on: Apr 17, 2011 07:07 PM »

Sorry, just not my thing!
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friendlyandgeeky
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« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2011 04:47 AM »

I believe in these modern times it's much less possible than in times past, really that simple.
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moderatesufi
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« Reply #27 on: Jun 22, 2011 10:10 AM »

Muslim men must take more than one wife.
Women who are not who do not agree to find their husbands a second wife if he wants one are seriously evil, they should fear Allah.
The laws of Islam are completed, and our Prophet pbh is the last and final Prophet.
So marrying four is Allowed today, as it has always been.
And there is a serious need for it today. Very serious.
In Iraq where the Americans have murdered the vast majority of marriageable men, women are turning to prostitution. As well as the neighbouring states to which they have escaped. The same goes of Afghanistan. And it isn't just the Americans who are slaughtering Muslim men.
In srebrenica the Serbs with the help if the UN slaughtered every Muslim male 15 and over. And this story is repeated, all over the world.

People who who accuse Muslim men of having the wrong intention for taking an additional wife should really fear Allah.
Do you think you are Allah, and do you think you have the ability to look in to some ones soul and read their intentions?


And even here, in the lands of the enemies of Islam where we have nice comfortable lives. Paid for by the wealth the enemies of Allah steal from the lands of the believers, there is a need for it. A greater need!
Why?
How many women convert to Islam for every male that Converts?
3?
4?
More?
Women are being left on the shelf permanently for saying La illalah illala.
And it is making some women think twice about converting.
And that isn't right.

Some heretics, and that is what they are. Heretics. Have said, that Muslim women marrying Kaffir men should be made Hallal because of this.
Well the deen is completely, and people who try and change the deen have actually changed their religion from Islam to kufr.
They say, Islam has a solution to everything, so what is the solution to there being much more Muslim women than men?
Well the solution is there, but some people don't like it, because it goes against the cultural norms of white Christians and atheists.
The solution is Polygamy. And even if there weren't more Muslim women than men, Polygamy will still be hallal.
Why?
Because it is Hallal, our religion is dictated by Allah in the Quran. Not by Christians and atheists.


Seriously, women who are against their husbands marrying additional wives should seriously ask for forgiveness and guidance.
You should do Zikir all night.
And meditate over your selfishness, don't you worry about the sisters left on the shelf due to your selfishness and lack of generosity?
When a Muslim woman was captured by the Romans, and rescued by Mutasim. The wife of Mutasim said to him, she will never sleep with him again, until he takes that woman as a wife first!
That is a real Muslim woman!
It isn't all women who are against polygamy, it is selfish women who are against polygamy.
Good Muslim women are for it!
Good Muslim women who put the rights of their single sisters ahead of their own.
You lot really need to do some zikr.
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moderatesufi
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« Reply #28 on: Jun 22, 2011 10:19 AM »

Oh yah. I have discussed it with my wife.
In regards to me moving away to work.
If I do that, I will get married there, and split my time between the two households.

If my wife is OK with it, and a new wife is willing to join this arrangement.
It is no ones business but ours.

So others should fear Allah, instead of fearing embarrassment in front of Jews and Christians.
Smiley

We might even take a third wife, a housewife type. Because mine likes to work, and would prefer I work to. The only way that is possible is if someone else is there at home to do the house work.
Maids are not suitable because of the rules of being alone with non-muhrams.
Well, if the husband is OK with it, and two additional wives have no problem with it, our business. Smiley
Not much of a difference between 3 and 4 is there, why not go the whole way, and get a final one?
My business, and if someone wants to become a 4th, well that's cool.
Smiley


All you brothers should take additional wives.
If you don't due to fear of your first wife, you really need to do some zikr.
Until you learn that it is Allah you should fear and not your wife!
If your wife doesn't let you take another one, and says she will leave you if you do.
Say, good! Plenty more fish in the sea!
And marry 2, 3, or 4!
Don't see it as bad for the one you have dumped, who deserved it anyway, due to her selfishness, narrow mindedness and western mentality.
See it as good for the others you have married. the 2, 3 or 4 you have saved from a lonely life, and a lonely death. Ladies you have saved from childlessness. And ladies who you have protected from marrying kaffir and harram by giving them a Hallal way to relieve their lusts.
Just do it. You know in regents park Musjid they have a marriage list. And on it, there is a square that ladies can tick if they dont mind being second wives. and Loads of ladies tick it, because they know, the option is between being a second and never ever being a wife cause their just aren't enough Muslim men for every lady to have one on her own.
So marry more!!!!!
Brothers take second wives!!! There are lots of women willing to marry you!!!
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BrKhalid
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« Reply #29 on: Jun 22, 2011 11:33 AM »

Asalaamu Alaikum bro

Just to clarify one important point; polygamy in Islam is usually considered as mubah [permissable] from a fiqh perspective.

It is neither considered fardh [obligatory] or mustahab [recommended].

In certain cases it is even considered haram [forbidden] if the conditions attaching to ploygamy cannot be met.



It would be highly recommended for any brother considering entering into a polygamous marriage to speak to a qualified scholar to ensure he is fully aware of his marital duties and obligations such that he does not oppress any of his wives.
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Fozia
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« Reply #30 on: Jun 22, 2011 12:00 PM »

salam


Out of curiosity Moderatesufi, you said in another post you're a house husband, how do you purport taking care of the material needs of your four wives?

Islam is actually the only religion that has put a cap on the number of wives a man may take,

Surah An Nisah translates as;

Quote
Verse 3
And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan-girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice

Each to their own really and may Allah grant us kindness and gentleness in our dealings with one another.




Wassalaam
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moderatesufi
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« Reply #31 on: Jun 22, 2011 04:36 PM »


It would be highly recommended for any brother considering entering into a polygamous marriage to speak to a qualified scholar to ensure he is fully aware of his marital duties and obligations such that he does not oppress any of his wives.


Alakum salam

Bro great idea, speak to an alim to find out the rules, and take some more wives!!!
That alim you ask probably knows loads of women who cant get married because all the men are taken. So take an additional one, two, or three!
Smiley


Fozia

You will find the answer to your question on the second line of my last post on this thread.
Smiley
The one that you responded to?

You don't need to be super rich to afford it.
Smiley


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jannah
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« Reply #32 on: Jun 22, 2011 07:50 PM »

wsalam,

bruv if you want to practice polygany i suggest you marry one of these iraqi war widows you've been talking about. bring her to the UK with her kids and provide her with a home, health care and financial support. make sure she has equal family time and equal support.

good luck
ws
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moderatesufi
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« Reply #33 on: Jun 22, 2011 08:28 PM »

Maybe I will one day. Up to me if I import a widow from Iraq or marry a 16 year old blond blue eyed convert from right here. Up to me to offer, and up to the girl to accept.
If you don't want to be a second wife, that is your business, but plenty of women are OK with it. And not all of them are divorced or widowed.
The second wife being a divorcee or widow isn't a criteria of polygamy. It is just a slogan apologists use when confronted by Kaffir about polygamy in Islam.
I don't apologise for Islam or any part of it.
Islam is Islam, the Kaffir can like it or burn in hell.
Up to them.
But I am not going to change my deen to please them.
The way they changed their deen to please the Roman idol worshippers.
And that is what Monogamy is, an invention of the Roman idol worshippers as part of their kufr.
And this kufr was taken by the Christians, who left the guidance sent to them by Allah to please their Roman idol worshipping rulers.
Just as many people who call themselves Muslims these days adopt Monogamy to please their romanised masters and rulers.
The Quran allows polygamy, just as the Bible allows it. If we Muslims invent non existent conditions to polygamy to say it was allowed before but not now, are we any different to the Christians and Jews who have invented lies against Allah in that same way for that same reason?
So why do we assume our ultimate destination will be different to their ultimate destination?


So if I take an additional wife, who will it be?
Will it be a 40 year old widow with 10 kids ranging from the ages of 22 to 2? Or a blond blue eyed teenage virgin from right here?
Well the choice is up to me to offer and the female to accept. So you all can like it or hate it, up to you.
Allah has made both lawful to me.
but most probably it would be neither.
I will accept the best that is on offer.
If that was the Iraqi that is what I will take, but I am sure I can do better. If the teenage converts would say yes to being a second wife to someone like me, I would say yes, but I am sure they can do better.
So yes, I will take a divorcee or a widow if that was the best I can get, and yes, even if they have kids. If the Kids were so young they wouldn't remember the natural father, I think I'd be OK with it.

Maybe there are men out there who take second wives for some sort of philanthropic reasons. But even if that was my reason, that will never ever be the reason I state.
Why?
Imagine it, "Hay babe, I want to marry you cause I feel sorry for you, and you need me", not very romantic is it?
How will she feel for the rest of her life?
I will marry another wife, when I feel I need another wife. The choice of wife will not be dictated to me by people who are Anti-polygamy. The choice will be dictated by a suitable match, just as the first was a chosen because she was a suitable match.
Only difference is, the first only need to be a suitable match for me, while the second will have to be a suitable match for me, and a suitable match for number one and existing kids.





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jannah
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« Reply #34 on: Jun 22, 2011 09:24 PM »

wsalam,

don't get me wrong. you can do whatever you want. no one is saying you can't. Allah gave us choice on the earth and people can follow His guidance or they can choose not too. that's what we'll be judged upon after all. and again you seem to think this is your personal business but guess what, it's not. if you abuse this sister or not give her her rights, it's our business. the muslim ummahs. and guess what, if she's on 'the dole' because you can't afford a second wife, it is again our business. if you can't afford decent accommodations or health care or to feed your children from this marriage, again it's our business. if your first wife is oppressed or your marriage breaks down, again it's our business.

also don't make out your opinions to be islam because that would certainly be ridiculous. or that you think only your actions are somehow pleasing to Allah within many things that are permissible. or that everyone else in the ummah is somehow doing something wrong and you are better than them. it is allowed to have a second wife under certain conditions, but it is not a rewardable act or a legislated sunnah. so stop arguing for it. if you want to go do something within islam then go do it. the rest of the 99% of the ummah do not.

lastly, certainly your obsession with "blue eyed teenage virgins" has to be questioned. please don't act like that is in any way islamic.

seriously, there's a lot of ppl with wack views but why does one need to bring islam into the equation. in my opinion they are just trying to justify their wack views and nothing more.

ok the end.


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moderatesufi
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« Reply #35 on: Jun 23, 2011 04:24 PM »

wsalam,

 Allah gave us choice on the earth and people can follow His guidance or they can choose not too.



Yes, and the Guidance of Allah is the Quran and the Sunnah, both of which allow polygamy.
Following the ways of the Christians and Jews is misguidance.
Making what Allah made Hallal, Harram for yourselves because some Christians and Jews don't like it is misguidance.
Islam is the truth, and it is perfect. We don't need to copy the ways of the people of hell to make it better. Copying their path only means we will share their destination.
Smiley




"'the dole' afford decent accommodations or health care or to feed your children from this marriage, if your first wife is oppressed or your marriage breaks down,"

You know what really makes me laugh about these anti-polygamy excuses?
They are not Anti Polygamy! THEY ARE ANTI MARRIAGE!
Please tell me how these issues are unique to second marriages as opposed to being equally applicable to the first?
If this is why people shouldn't do polygamy, it means this is why NO ONE SHOULD GET MARRIED.

And by the way, the health care issue only applies to people who live in failed third world states like America. In civilised countries which include some very poor countries the state provides it, to everyone. Rich and poor have equal access.
And our taxes are less than yours. Ours goes towards our healthcare, while yours goes to Israel to give them free healthcare, housing, university education etc as well as weapons to kill Muslims with.
Smiley
You really should work less and pray more.
Smiley


also don't make out your opinions to be islam because that would certainly be ridiculous.

Again, It is Hallal in Islam. No one says it is Harram in Islam.
Can anyone quote me any of the classical ulima who have said monogamy is preferable to polygamy?
This isnt an issue of differences of opinion.
The only ones who differ on this issue are the Christians and Jews. And it looks like some Muslims would prefer to follow the example of the people of the fire rather than the example of the People of Paradise such as our Prophet pbh and his companions.
Not just them but everyone who has come since until the time when the white Christians dominated the Earth. Some people regard might as right, so consider every opinion of those people of hell as right.

Our Quran isn't only the Quran of the best generation, the Sahaba. What was made lawful in it is as much lawful to us, as it was to them.
Smiley
Islam is complete. Don't reinterpret it to fit the whims and desires of the Jews and Christians.


or that everyone else in the ummah is somehow doing something wrong and you are better than them.

This is a question the westernised Muslims need to ask themselves.
Because they are making the accusation against the people of the vast majority of people who do not share their western Judo-Christian values.
The majority of Muslims do not live in America, so don't share American values.

it is allowed to have a second wife under certain conditions,

That is like saying having a wife is allowed under certain conditions.
That statement doesn't make celibacy preferable to monogamy, just as yours doesn't make monogamy preferable to polygamy.
In fact wide spread monogamy is the imposition of celibacy on a lot of Muslim women.
Women who did not choose to be celibate, but have it forced on them by Muslim males making Harram for themselves what Allah has made Hallal.

  but it is not a rewardable act or a legislated sunnah. so stop arguing for it. if you want to go do something within islam then go do it.


Marriage is rewardable and it is the sunnah. Where do you get the idea this reward is only limited to the man's first marriages?
While all subsequent marriages are devoid of rewards and are Bidha?

And I am sure
the rest of the 99% of the ummah do not not sure your views on polygamy. The rest on the Ummah respect it even if they don't practice it. And that is what I am, someone who respects it and who as yet hasn't done it. But if I feel the need I will.
Smiley
And more of the brothers here should marry a second, if they feel the need. Smiley And do not fear comments from the Jews, Christians and the Muslims who use them as a reference.

And Islam allows me to marry a "blue eyed teenage virgins". I was sort of using that example figuratively, to mean someone attractive. To be honest looks aren't so important to me.
My first wife isn't good looking and I married her. She's Pakistani and I really don't find Indo-Pak women attractive.
Deleted, by me, said to much lol
 I got proposals from much more attractive women but I said no because they didn't wear Hijab properly.
So I may well marry someone really ugly if she was nice in other ways.
But I have nothing against brothers who find looks important.
 





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BrKhalid
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« Reply #36 on: Jun 23, 2011 05:06 PM »

Asalaamu Alaikum


To put things into perspective, polygamy is mubah but gheebah [backbiting] is universally condemned as haram and is considered a kabira [major sin].


Why do some Muslims feel the need to backbite about their spouses in public when they know the gravity of the sin Huh?


Surely a husband/wife should guard the honour and staus of his/her spouse both in public and in private.
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« Reply #37 on: Jun 23, 2011 06:47 PM »

ws,

bro again no one is arguing against polygany. they are arguing against it being done unislamically.

and please God do not marry someone you find ugly. i hope no guy does that. i'm sure she would rather live life as a spinster than accept your kind of kindness in marrying!!

 
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Fozia
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« Reply #38 on: Jun 23, 2011 07:03 PM »

salam






Surely a husband/wife should guard the honour and status of his/her spouse both in public and in private.

I second, third and fourth that....


Manners maketh the man!


And actually if you want to marry you should go out and get a job and try your hardest to take care of your family, Allah will grant you halal rizq and barakah, if you can't afford it you shouldnt marry you should fast. Marrying increases your rizq because Allah gives you rizq to cover your family, going on the dole if you dont need to is utterly shameful! I actually do not care what your views are, if you feel working contributes to the zionist whatever it is you are banging on about, seriously go and live amongst muslims in a muslim country and see exactly how well they allow you to sit about at home all day.


I honestly hope you aren't for real, my heart really aches for your wife!








Wassalaam
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moderatesufi
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« Reply #39 on: Jun 23, 2011 08:34 PM »

salam




I honestly hope you aren't for real, my heart really aches for your wife!


Wassalaam


Sorry, I am for real.
But it is OK, women in the real world tell me my wife is really lucky.
And tell her that too, but she disagrees with them.

Why?



It is natural for men to want to be the breadwinner.  And that is what most people expect of males. But sometimes the female has put a lot ion to her career, and really likes her Job. And when the male has put an equal or greater amount of effort in to his career and equally likes it, often both work. When circumstances arise and one of them is needed at home, usually the female sacrifices all of her effort, loses her dreams and stays at home. When that happens people applaud her sacrifice. It is very rare, even among white kaffir for the man to sacrifice so the woman can keep her dreams.
And in the rare occasions that happens, no one applauds, instead this is what people say or think:

And actually if you want to marry you should go out and get a job and try your hardest to take care of your family,



And I am good looking, so when people she knows see me they tell her lucky you.



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lucid
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« Reply #40 on: Jun 23, 2011 08:35 PM »

Until you learn that it is Allah you should fear and not your wife!
If your wife doesn't let you take another one, and says she will leave you if you do.
Say, good! Plenty more fish in the sea!
And marry 2, 3, or 4!
Don't see it as bad for the one you have dumped, who deserved it anyway, due to her selfishness, narrow mindedness and western mentality.
See it as good for the others you have married. the 2, 3 or 4 you have saved from a lonely life, and a lonely death. Ladies you have saved from childlessness. And ladies who you have protected from marrying kaffir and harram by giving them a Hallal way to relieve their lusts.
Just do it. You know in regents park Musjid they have a marriage list. And on it, there is a square that ladies can tick if they dont mind being second wives. and Loads of ladies tick it, because they know, the option is between being a second and never ever being a wife cause their just aren't enough Muslim men for every lady to have one on her own.
So marry more!!!!!
Brothers take second wives!!! There are lots of women willing to marry you!!!

i don't know why all of you are bothering with this guy.  he is obviously extremely misogynistic, a guy who seems to think women are a commodity "buy 1, 2, 3 or 4!"

people with similar attitudes end up being wife-beaters or very nasty husbands.

and you really have to wonder about what kind of morals this guy has when he openly talks about marrrying "16 year blue eyed virgins."   peadophiles talk that, not normal muslims who have shame and humility.

finally, this guy is so obviously loony, that it smells too much like an intellingence service plant.  and if this guy wasn't abdullahcohen reinvented, or one of his friends, i'd be very surprised...

 
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moderatesufi
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« Reply #41 on: Jun 23, 2011 08:39 PM »

Yes Lucid, that is what the intelligence services do. They go about on internet websites telling Muslims to have 4 wives.
Yes that is certainly true, things like stopping terrorist attacks or installing puppet regimes in Muslim countries doesn't get a look in.

Wow, sounds like a great Job. None of the dangers of James Bonn, just doing what I do now, but getting paid for it.
Wow

And please tell me more about your wife beating data, where you have produced a x-y graph and compared wife beating with attitudes?
How many cases have you examined?
The Muslim men I have met who beat their wives do so for the same reason why the Kaffir men do so. They do so when they come home drunk.
From what I have seen it isn't attitude that causes it, it is beer or drugs.

That or people who suffer from a mental illness and think their wives are Jinn, or maybe even workers for intelligence services?
Lucid, are there many people in the real world who you assume work for the intelligence services?
Are they all keeping a close eye on you, or hired to disagree with you in places like Madina message bored?
They are out there, we are not alone.



In Islam you can marry someone post puberty, so us Muslims will not regard someone who marries someone below 16 but above puberty as a paedophile.
16 is the legal age of marriage here.
Don't you think you are stretching its meaning a little by stretching it not only beyond the the Islamic rule of puberty but all so the man made kufr law of the land?



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lucid
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« Reply #42 on: Jun 24, 2011 02:00 PM »

And I am good looking, so when people she knows see me they tell her lucky you.

simply hilarious.  you call your wife "not good looking" and you say you're "good looking."  what are you trying to do? tempt fate?  do you really want Allah to do teach you lesson and rub your face in the dirt so it isn't so "good looking."

lol.  you are a funny one...!

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moderatesufi
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« Reply #43 on: Jun 24, 2011 04:21 PM »

I think you need to scroll and read my statements again. It isn't me who puts an importance to looks.
They are just incidental. The way that people are born. Just as hight, nationality, eye colour and race.
It is the western mentality that you are so keen to emulate which puts and importance to it.
Just as I don't insult myself by saying I am less educated than my wife, I don't insult her by saying I am better looking.
It is only an incidental statement of fact, not positive or negative in anyway.
In the same way stating I am taller or stronger are not negative or positive but statements of fact.

It is the so called Americanised culture that places an importance to women's beauty. An importance over all else, to such a degree that women are only as important as what they look like. That is why their women starve themselves to death in many cases, or pluck them selves all over. To them, if a woman isn't good looking, she is worthless. That is why their women walk about with next to nothing on, the importance of women to them doesn't go beyond appearance.
While women in Niqab visibly equal. Ugliness and beauty are not visible to be used as a criteria to judge.
So they are judge only on their minds and their piety.

So your comments about tempting fate seems sort of silly to me. Because it is the western mindset which you respect and I reject that places an importance on women's looks. And not even the western mindsets puts much of an importance on men's looks.
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« Reply #44 on: Jun 24, 2011 04:42 PM »

Asalaamu Alaikum

Quote
I don't insult her by saying I am better looking.

It is only an incidental statement of fact, not positive or negative in anyway


We should all be aware that just because a statement may be true, it can still be insulting and more importantly it still falls within the definition of backbiting (which is a major sin)


Abu Hurayrah (ra) narrated that the Prophet Mohammad saw said:


"Do you know what backbiting is?”

They said, “Allah and His Messenger know best.”

He then said, “It is to say something about your brother that he would dislike.”

Someone asked him, “But what if what I say is true?”

The Messenger of Allah said, “If what you say about him is true, you are backbiting him, but if it is not true then you have slandered him."



Again, to put things into perspective, slander is considered worse than backbiting and according to some scholars seventy times worse than adultery.


We should all be very wary when discussing an individual outside of his/her presence.
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« Reply #45 on: Jun 24, 2011 05:22 PM »

As I said to Lucid, I find it strange that you would assume someone will dislike such a statement.
Not all women are as shallow as western women.
To western women, who consider their beauty as their worth, such a statement will be disliked.
But not to an Islamic woman who places no value on her looks. But who instead chooses to hide them.

Yes I know back biting is to say something about someone they would dislike.

What I dispute is the "dislike". Only a completely shallow, hollow person would dislike not being considered attractive. And in general Muslim women other then the few who have been brainwashed by western culture are not like that.

I think my wife would be offended if she knew people said she would be offended by such a comment.
Because that statement would be tantamount to stating she is like a looks obsessed western woman.
So she will dislike people saying she would be offended.
Read the hadith again, are you guilty of it?
--- --- --

In the same way people here have put words in her mouth by assuming she will be offended. People put words in the mouths of the vast majority of Muslim women, assuming they will be offended if their Husbands take second wives.
Is this so different to the French who speak for the Muslim women who they ban from wearing Niqab and even Hijab.
Is it so different when the French say Muslim women want to be banned from wearing Niqab to when people here say Muslim women don't want to share a husband?

Just because you don't want to share it doesn't mean 100 of millions of other Muslim women don't want to share. Not all Muslim women have been brainwashed by the culture of the white Christians.
When you accuse husbands in plural marriages of imposing that life style on their wives, are you really so different from a French man who accuses Muslim husband of imposing Niqab and Hijab on their wives?
If so, how so?
How are you open minded and they close minded?

A lot of Muslim women, the ones who haven't bowed down to Judo-Christian culture see an addition wife as an extra pair of hands, companionship and friendship. Just as children don't mind sharing a father, they don't mind their husband is shared with others.
Just as many only children feel lonely, and would welcome a sibling, many only wives feel lonely and will welcome a co-wife.
People often call an only child who demands his parents do not have additional children because he wants their full attention spoilt and selfish, are only wives who do not look forward to their husbands bringing in additional wives to the marriage so different?


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BrKhalid
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« Reply #46 on: Jun 24, 2011 06:17 PM »

Asalaamu Alaikum bro

Quote
Yes I know back biting is to say something about someone they would dislike.

In all sincerity then, Brother, what I would suggest you do is show your wife the following comment of yours and confirm her like/dislike. Whatever her reaction, at least you would have done your Islamic duty in ensuring you have not backbiten her and can make the appropriate repentance if, indeed, she confirms you have backbiten/slandered her.

Quote
My first wife isn't good looking and I married her. She's Pakistani and I really don't find Indo-Pak women attractive


Whilst we may say things to our spouses in private and they may agree, it is no reason to then disclose such information to a wider audience. A spouse deserves more respect than that


More generally, this incident highlights the dangers of engaging in needless conversation and the pitfalls one can enter into. We should be wary of what we utter from our tongues and, in this technological age, what emanates from our fngers when we type.


"Whoever protects his tongue from unlawful utterances and guards his private parts from illegal sexual relations, I shall guarantee him entrance into the Paradise."
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Say: "O ye my servants who believe! Fear your Lord, good is (the reward) for those who do good in this world. Spacious is God's earth! those who patiently persevere will truly receive a reward without measure!" [39:10]
moderatesufi
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« Reply #47 on: Jun 24, 2011 06:33 PM »

Alakum salam,

She knows Smiley
Her reply is, "that is the way Allah made me", and "I have managed to keep my husband and that is all that is all that matters".

-------- ---------

I am starting to get uncomfortable with this excessive focus on her. And at the same time I really believe this topic is very important, and I believe the mentality of people who believe in our book but try to interpret it in ways pleasing to the Jews and Christians is even more important than polygamy itself.
So I really don't want the thread to get side tracked. Smiley

The core issue here is much greater than polygamy. And this issue stretches beyond to how the messages of previous Prophets were corrupted.

What I mean is, the reason why it is so important for Muslims to remember Polygamy is Hallal is because the Kaffir are pressuring us to declare it Harram the way their priests and Rabbis declared what Allah made Hallal, Harram.

Just take a look at all the issues mentioned in our Quran and their Bible and Torah. The issues which they no longer practice, but we do. And you will find them telling us to change our religion on the issue. And you will find Muslims reinterpreting Islam to fit in with such.
Don't you see Muslims state Riba is now Hallal?
They make excuses not in our book, and say taking is Hallal because not doing it allows them to keep it and spend it in killing us. While at the same time they make giving Riba just as Hallal by stating necessity.


When it comes to Muslim woman marrying Kaffir, they state, don't judge them because we don't know their circumstances, even though what they do is clearly Harram. But when a Muslim marries a second wife which is obviously Hallal, they are first to judge. And they do so with no evidence. They assume the very fact that someone takes a second means he breaks the rules of marriage.

To me people being against polygamy isn't the big issue, what is is the reason why people are against it.
And the reason is clear. People are embarrassed with Islam.
People might state, "Well I'm not against Polygamy, I am just against its abuses".
Issue is, this thread started by asking about polygamy, not asking about its abuses. But people assumed polygamy means abuse. And that isn't right. It is the same argument the French use to ban Hijab, with statements like, hijab means honour killings.
It is like saying Allah made abuse Hallal.

I think the reason for this is living among the kaffir. Some people adopt the value systems of the people around them.
I really feel Muslims like that need to move to Muslim countries where it might not be so bad to adopt the value systems of the people around you.


And Muslims are better than Kaffir.
We are not the shar ul bariya, someone else is. The Kaffir media want us to think Muslims are the worst. And some Muslims believe that, so decide to copy better people. They decide to copy the Kaffir, the Shar ul Bariya.








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jannah
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« Reply #48 on: Jun 24, 2011 09:47 PM »

salams,

brkhalid in this case disclosing what was said can bring more harm and hurt (and probably did). if one is repenting from something, there is no point in hurting the person even more in order to further one's own repentance yes?... i've heard one scholar say u can just tell the person i did something in the past that i feel wronged you, can u forgive me etc and u don't have to give all the details if it will just bring more harm...


moderatesufi:

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! your poor wife!!!!!!!

YOu do know you can "lie" to your wife to keep happy relations. You don't have to tell her every nitpicky tiny thing. Just tell her she looks nice and is beautiful to you!! You don't have to be like 'oh she's not attractive'!! She is attractive to you, she's your wife, mother to your children and puts up with you etc. She's a darn beautiful person if you ask me.

Also just imho here, but let's try to fix up your first marriage and make it strong before you go off marrying someone else.

Ever heard of date night? You guys should just get dressed up and do something together. Give her some money to go to the salon or something. Girls can look really nice when dressed up and taken care of.

And please don't ever say that again. I will seirously consider banning you.

OK ws

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skhansj
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« Reply #49 on: Jun 24, 2011 10:22 PM »

@moderatesufi,
Firstly, I must congratulate you for having a wife who is patient, and grateful for your companionship. You should reciprocate by honoring her love and affection insha'Allah, so that Almighty Allah may increase you both in piety and your share of His promised sakina.

However, I must say that some of the things you've mentioned are a bit horrifying. I found a few of the sentences to be callous, insensitive, and perhaps a bit degrading to women. In particular, the way you condemned all 'western women' was unfair... I see the Quran-burners in Florida adopting the same tone when they talk about Muslims, and I think that this is counter-productive. There are many wonderful women in the west, who understand the beauty of Islam, and are insha'Allah counted among the Beloved of our Creator.

It should always be possible to support a particular proposition without putting an individual or a community down.

I should remind myself first, and then others I suppose, about the importance of humility, respect, and recognizing the special qualities in the wonderful humans that Almighty Allah has created in his own image, to live in tranquility in this world as ashraf-al-makhlooqaat.


I don't think that anyone is going to argue with you about the fact that polygamy is an option presented in the Qur'aan. However, Islam is meant to be lived in context, and if your context is Yemen, Pakistan, or Ghana, there are no issues there.

However, if your context happens to be UK, US, Canada (somewhat) or France, there are very real consequences to life-choices of this nature. You can probably get away with having a 'misyar' marriage (which probably is the equivalent of having a mistress in these countries), but if you try and have a truly Islamic marriage, with equal share of time, money and care, it may be quite difficult financially and emotionally. Personally, I think that the misyar marriages are not fair to women; and would not encourage them.

There are probably some ideal circumstances when having more than one wife makes sense, and solid biological imperatives supporting this as well. However, these arrangements should not hurt anyone. Fulfilling a sunnah, at the expense of someone's feeling, security and peace is not a nice thing to do. At the least the approach (taken by the male) should be one that is supporting and loving.

We all have our opinions of our Islam. For some, it's about rights and responsibilities, for others it is about cultural artefacts. For me, the emphasis is on values and qualities that we should strive for, and not the mere symbols and trappings that can delude us into a false sense of accomplishment. If someone wears a hijab or a beard, it does not make them a saint.. and similarly if someone dresses up in western clothing (albeit modestly), it does not make them in harlots. The prerogative of judging is one that Almighty Allah hold dearly to Himself, and I would shudder to place my nafs as a rival to Him by saying things about people (that may or may not be true).

May Almighty Allah gives us all the gift of wisdom, make us patient, and of those who are helpful and supportive. And may He not make us among those who are demanding, dogmatic and abrasive.

We should make an effort to think if we are hurting someone before we express our opinions. Insha'Allah.

- Shahzad



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