// homosexuality in Islam (big debate in my community)
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blackrose
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« on: Oct 12, 2010 10:49 PM »


salaam

ok there is something that is dividing the Muslim students here and its homosexuality.

Some say its not haram, only the act is.  Others say its haram. period.

What do you think and what do the scholars say? Its more deep then just halal/haram right?
akhan
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« Reply #1 on: Oct 13, 2010 12:53 AM »

I guess it is Haram in totality.
There is a unanimous consensus among the scholars that every human being is born a heterosexual.Like no one is born a thief or a liar or a murderer,similarly no one is born homosexual.It is due to external factors and lack of guidance and education that people turn that way.
Allah U Alam
blackrose
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« Reply #2 on: Oct 13, 2010 02:40 AM »

Jannah or anyone else wasn't there a very long discussion on this once? There was some lady who was I think a lesbian? Am I correct? I never read it but I remember there was some long discussion going on. Does anyone know where that is?

I don't know akhan.. it seems there are people that are really are gay. IF you think about it, there are gays in every country, all over the world.. and there is also a claim of scientific evidence. .. Allahu alim
blackrose
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« Reply #3 on: Oct 13, 2010 03:45 AM »

salaaaaam!

ok yayyyyyyy I found this discussion.

Its important to read all the comments after the article as well:

http://muslimmatters.org/2009/04/13/dealing-with-homosexual-urges/#comment-78160
Al-Abd
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« Reply #4 on: Oct 13, 2010 04:15 AM »

Asalaamualaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Ok, before anyone reads this, i'd like to point out that everything i say will be based off of whatever little knowledge i have of Islam and definitely shouldn't be taken as anything scholarly.

First, i think we should clarify what is meant in Islam when we say "homosexuality is a major sin."  From what i understand, when any islamic writing speaks about the the SIN of homosexuality, then it is clearly ONLY speaking about the ACT of homosexuality and not the feeling or inclination towards homosexuality.  I mean, i think it is easy to even deduce this logically because let's say for instance, a man is walking in a super market, and he sees a chocolate bar.  Suddenly, he gets this inclination to take it and put it in his pocket, or  in other words, steal it, so he can eat it later on.  However, the man decides to fight the inclination because he knows it's wrong, and he walks away without it.  Did he sin just because he FELT like stealing?  No.  Sins are not committed through inclinations or feelings, they're committed through following through with these illicit inclinations and manifesting them through actions.  So, if that same man had let himself fall prey to his desire to steal and actually stole the chocolare bar, then he would have commited a sin.

In the same manner, the way i've understood homosexuality in regards to Islam is that the ACT of homosexuality, such as, homosexual intercourse, or being involved with the same sex, is Haram and not the inclination towards homosexuality or solely having feelings for the same sex.  For those who claim that having the feelings of homosexuality are haram, then they are claiming that having any bad inclinations, like to steal or to fornicate or to hurt someone etc. are all sins as well, even though none of them are committed.  However,I don't believe that is an islamic teaching.

The Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w) said, "Allah has recorded the good deeds and the evil deeds. Then he made them clear: He who has intended a good deed and does not do it, Allah writes it down with Him as a performed good deed; but if he intends it and does perform it; Allah records for him from ten good deeds to seven hundred times that or more than that. If he intends to do an evil deed and does not do it, then Allah writes it down as a good deed; but if he intends an evil deed and performs it, Allah records it as one evil deed" (Sahih Al-Jami)

True believers, even if they have feelings for the same sex, would fight these feelings knowing that they are from shaytaan. Believers would make dua to Allah to help them overcome this fitnah. In the end, if a Muslim finds him or herself having these kinds of feelings, they should see it as a test and through prayer and struggle, get through it by the will of Allah!

I think many times what happens when we have this kind of discussion is that we all use the same word, for instance, "Homosexual," but we mean different things.  One person may say "homosexual" and define it as anyone who has feelings for the same sex, while another person may say "homosexual" and define it as one who has feelings for the same sex AND also acts upon those feelings by having sexual intercourse or relationships with the same sex.  I believe Islamically, the first person is just a regular Muslim who is being put through a test by Allah, and is hopefully going to be successful by fighting against their lower desires(nafs), while the second person is a Faasiq(Flagrant sinner) who has succumbed to his lower desires(nafs).

Last point, many people today(hopefully not Muslims) like to justify the act of homosexuality by claiming that it is caused genetically rather than through environmental factors.  First, it is not proven to be genetic.  Second, to a muslim, this is beyond the point.  The point is, whether Homosexuality is genetic or environmental, it is Haram to act upon it. if it is genetic, then the true Muslim will fight against the feelings, and if it is environmental, then again, the true Muslim will fight against the feelings.  In the end, the believers are always successful!!

I hope that helped, insha'Allah!  Asalaamualaikum!
jannah
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WWW
« Reply #5 on: Oct 13, 2010 05:28 AM »

Wsalaam,

Blackrose I don't remember that discussion because I've probably suppressed all memory of it lol Smiley It was a long time ago for sure.

I think Al-abd wrote a very good treatment of the issue. I'll also reiterate, as he did, that it is important to note that "thoughts, inclinations, urges" are not (alhamdulillah) written against us (only kept in mind as part of one's intention). They are not considered deeds/actions. This no doubt is a huge blessing for us.

Ok that is all,
ws
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« Reply #6 on: Oct 13, 2010 06:30 PM »

I remember the discussion- I think it was a brother who had homosexual feelings... But had overcome them and was married with kids now?

I like the chocolate bar analogy... I will add that some people are born with a sweet tooth and some are not. For the ones that are, overcoming stealing the chocolate is far more difficult - and Allah knows this... And he will judge accordingly.  In this way, I DO think homosexuality is probably genetic.

Hmm maybe it's a combination of environmental factors too since having a sweet tooth could also come from exposure to it in childhood?

I'll try to look for the thread as well.
Ilyas
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« Reply #7 on: Oct 13, 2010 07:48 PM »

Asalam Alaikum,

I really don't believe that a human being can be born a homosexual or heterosexual, I honestly believe that our upbringing and environment has more to do with our behavior. Scientists claim many things that can never be proven, they come up with theories that fit their needs. Allahu Alim.

Brother Al-Abd covered this issue pretty well though.

Assalamu Alaikum
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« Reply #8 on: Oct 14, 2010 09:55 PM »

I have so many issues with Homosexuality.

I think there are two areas. One who chooses and one who does not.

Ex 1: I have a friend who is now lesbian, she was married she does have children. After many years of physical and sexual abuse from her husband she was able to get legal help and get away from the situation. She has full custody and a perm restraining order. Now she chooses to be with women. I think this is because of her past fear and the trauma she endured. Do I think she can change YES, because this was brought on by something and is not her natural state.

EX 2: My friend Harry, he said he knew he was gay for many years since puberty. Being raised in a strict family he tried to fight his urges. He married a girl named Melissa. They could never consummate the marriage due to his lack to form an erection. He was just not attracted to her, altough he states she was his best friend. He told her the truth after seeing many doctors for erectile disfunction. They did divorce, are still close. However, Harry is now married to Tom and they have been together for 22 years. I don't he has a choice.

It is hard for someone who is not gay to understand, but the laws of attraction are different.  There is scientific evidence showing this is not always a lifestyle choice.

My other friend and dearest friend is now male was female. Since 5 he has always told his mother... I am a boy. He faced ridicule and being disowned when he made his decision.. Why would someone choose such pain for themselves. It is said there is alot to do with the size of the hypothamus gland in the brain. Allahu Alam.

It is not a black and white issue. I think Allah placed these ppl among us to teach us not to judge. Yes, you can detest the act but not the person. Hate the sin but not the sinner. Until you have walked a million miles in the others shoes you can't determine.. oh yeah they just choose that. You don't live with their torment.

As far as enviroment... you are wrong. I have a male friend who just married a girl from highschool and my friend Caitlyn, they dated 10 years. He was raised by his father and his father's boyfriend.

I believe in Islam like the sun rising, not because I see it but because by it, I see everything else.
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« Reply #9 on: Nov 01, 2010 02:21 AM »



As far as enviroment... you are wrong. I have a male friend who just married a girl from highschool and my friend Caitlyn, they dated 10 years. He was raised by his father and his father's boyfriend.

Asalaamualaikum sister Christine,

I think you may have misunderstood the point stated about environment.  Although one's environment can be a factor that leads one to becoming homosexual,  I don't believe an environment that promotes homosexuality will necessarily lead to homosexuality.  Since homosexuality is not the norm in terms of our fitrah(natural human tendency), conditions that lead towards homosexuality would have to be present in order to lead to it, whether those coditions are the whispers of shaytaan or the "parents" of the child being homosexuals.  However, with that said, conditions that promote homosexuality will not necessarily lead to it.  The child might decide to ignore his environment and go with the urging of his fitrah instead.

With all that said, i do agree that the issue of homosexuality is a deep one and not black and white. However, in the end, i think we can all agree that commiting homosexual acts is definitely haram whether one was born with those tendencies or not.  I very much doubt that there is a difference amongst the scholars on this one.

May Allah bestow his Mercy upon and guide those who are suffering from such trials and tribulations! Ameen!

Asalaamualaikum
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« Reply #10 on: Nov 01, 2010 06:40 AM »

salaam

good post Christine. People have to know that this stuff is real. I have heard the exact same situations as you. May Allah swt help these people and give them stregnth
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