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akhan
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« on: Nov 22, 2010 03:23 PM »


How would you define an actuary in terms of being Halal/Haram?

Seems to be "the" job for an introvert and math lover like me.
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« Reply #1 on: Nov 22, 2010 07:18 PM »

salam


Well your calculating the possibility of success or failure aren't you. In a nut shell.


I'd guess it would depend wholly on which industry you entered, most actuaries I've ever met work in pensions.


Money is super fabulous tho. May Allah grant you boundless rizq and barakah.


Good luck Smiley



Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #2 on: Nov 23, 2010 02:26 AM »

The majority of actuaries I've met work in insurance Smiley that's why I had to ask.
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« Reply #3 on: Nov 25, 2010 10:10 PM »

i have never understood why people say insurance is haram. 

can someone enlighten me? 
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 26, 2010 05:49 AM »

i have never understood why people say insurance is haram. 

can someone enlighten me? 
Because it involves interest and fixed returns
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 26, 2010 09:56 PM »

it doesn't actually have to involve interest and fixed returns.  you don't have to buy annuities to hedge against insurance claims.

in fact, i see no reason why it necessarily involves interest or fixed returns.

people pay premiums -- a cash flow stream.  the insurance company takes a risk, based on expected failure rates, by insuring that claim.  if the premiums are large enough than then they make up for the claims.  it has nothing to do with interest. its all probability -- hence risk -- hence no fixed returns.

please enlighten me again...
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« Reply #6 on: Nov 27, 2010 12:06 AM »

salam

Is this any help?

NB I apologise if I shouldn't have posted the below, I thought it answered lucids question quite clearly;

Quote
All types of commercial insurance no doubt entail Riba (interest) because you pay a specific sum of money and take a larger or smaller amount should a risk occur. Accordingly, this coverage contains Riba An-Nasi’ah interest on lent money) and Riba Al-Fadl (exchanging a superior thing of the same kind of goods with more of inferior quality of the same kind of goods), for as we know, the insurers take premiums from those under this coverage and promise to give them smaller or larger amounts should a risk occur to the insured. No doubt, this is the very same Riba which is prohibited according to many Qur’anic verses.



Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 28, 2010 06:00 PM »



Quote
Riba Al-Fadl (exchanging a superior thing of the same kind of goods with more of inferior quality of the same kind of goods), for as we know, the insurers take premiums from those under this coverage and promise to give them smaller or larger amounts should a risk occur to the insured.

and how is this different from hiring a security guard to protect you? you pay money to him every month (because of POSSIBILITY that somebody may try to kill you, let's say).  99% of the time, it will be wasted money -- so by that rationale, its exchanging something superior for something inferior.  In the off-chance that someone attacks you, your security guard will sacrifice his life for you and save you (a priceless action).

and also your quote says

Quote
No doubt, this is the very same Riba which is prohibited according to many Qur’anic verses.

and just what do the quranic verses say?  i don't think it says anything in detail like "Riba al fadl." it seems to me its busybodying by scholars and extrapolations where there isn't necessarily a connection.

finally, are you really getting less by paying insurance?  i would say you are not.  you are being relieved of anxiety.  for example, if you are a husband, by paying for insurance, you can feel infinitely more comfortable in case you pass away, so that your wife and children are not destitute and begging in the streets.  if you outlaw this, then you just favor the rich -- people who can withstand the financial shocks of death.

and allah knows best...

assalamualaikum
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« Reply #8 on: Nov 28, 2010 08:00 PM »

salam


I don't think a comparison for paying for labour (security guard) is the same.

Its with regards a tangible good an asset. Exchanging or promising to exchange a valuable item for less than its value is not allowed.

The security guard analogy doesnt work, its a risk I guess, but so is for example my going in to work  I could get run over by a bus, the tube tunnel could collapse whilst I was on the tube, our building could fall down, I could get struck by lightning, I could get murdered on the way in to work, our building could theoretically be a target for terrorist attacks (I work in a prominent london landmark), I could suffer a papercut and be contract a rare disease from it....... shit happens, with interest the company knows they will make more money than they will give out, that's what their profit is based on, its the whole basis of their trade.

It's really weird, I've seen life insurance policies being sold on TV for 'over 50's' and it says clearly at the bottom of the ad, that the money the beneficiary will receive will be less the that invested...I'm assuming I am one of very few people who bother reading the fine print.



Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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