// Osama bin Laden killed in US led Operation
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« on: May 02, 2011 04:53 AM »



Sources: Al-Qaida head bin Laden dead


By JULIE PACE, Associated Press Julie Pace, Associated Press

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama says Osama bin Laden, the glowering mastermind behind the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks that killed thousands of Americans, was killed in an operation led by the United States.

A small team of Americans carried out the attack and took custody of bin Laden's remains, the president said Sunday in a dramatic late-night statement at the White House.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

Osama bin Laden, the mastermind behind the Sept. 11 attacks against the United States, is dead, and the U.S. is in possession of his body, a person familiar with the situation said late Sunday.

President Barack Obama was expected to address the nation on the developments Sunday night.

Two senior counterterrorism officials confirmed that bin Laden was killed in Pakistan last week. One said bin Laden was killed in a ground operation, not by a Predator drone. Both said the operation was based on U.S. intelligence, and both said the U.S. is in possession of bin Laden's body.

Officials long believed bin Laden, the most wanted man in the world, was hiding a mountainous region along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to speak ahead of the president.

The development comes just months before the tenth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Centers and Pentagon, orchestrated by bin Laden's al-Qaida organization, that killed more than 3,000 people.

The attacks set off a chain of events that led the United States into wars in Afghanistan, and then Iraq, and America's entire intelligence apparatus was overhauled to counter the threat of more terror attacks at home.

Al-Qaida organization was also blamed for the 1998 bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa that killed 231 people and the 2000 attack on the USS Cole that killed 17 American sailors in Yemen, as well as countless other plots, some successful and some foiled.




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden
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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2011 05:50 AM »

salam,

wow i just saw this!! do you guys think it's real? i know for years most muslims (and some mainstream articles) believed he was long dead and that they kept inventing these "cave videos" and what not -- and if he was doing these cave videos why couldn't they track him down with every intelligence group and technology available to them.

all i can say now is alhamdulillah. hopefully with bin laden gone the people of the world can start to heal and people can stop trying to hijack the name of islam!

Watching live on Al jazeera: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

Apparently Americans are out in the streets in front of the whitehouse celebrating too!
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2011 08:38 AM »

Assalamu Alaykum, here's the link to the same story from BBC. it seems to have more details.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-us-canada-13256676

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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2011 09:18 AM »

Hmm been reading some more stories from various sources...I don't like how they say

"authorities plan to bury bin Laden’s body at sea in order to leave no definitive location for his final resting place. It will be done, an official added, “in accordance with Islamic practice and tradition."

like what does that mean??? Muslims don't bury their dead at sea. They have a funeral prayer and bury them in the ground within a few days of their death!!!

This makes it out like he was a "real good Muslim" or something like that. I just don't get why they would say that, except to less offend his sympathizers, but I really think shooting him in the head and killing his wife and son and family is probably a little more offensive to them.

I don't like how they are framing this on American channels as "pakistan was harboring him all this time in its biggest city next to its military, we should declare war on pakistan it harbors terrorists etc" Sounds like another war cry to me.

I'm sure there will be tons of conspiracy stories because no one has seen his body or anything else. They knew in Aug so why'd it take so long? What happened to the bodies of the other ppl?

In the end I'm glad that ppl think this will bring closure to them, for the trauma of 9/11, but I am hoping that this won't be the start to more violence. May Allah protect the Muslims.

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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2011 11:46 AM »

I woke up to this about 6 hours ago - - shocking really, as it just came out of left field. Honestly though, I've been waiting for this news for along time . . . hope OBL likes drinking boiling water! Would not want to be him on Judgement Day!

Would love to hear from members of the Madina who are in the bigger cities, not much here in terms of reaction of course.

As far as the seas burial, yeah that's messed up in terms of them referring to traditional Islamic burial . . .now people are going think that's how we normally bury our dead. . . but that is what they did, which of course, is good so no pilgrimage site is established, as like in Saddam H's case in Tikrit.

It was interesting that he was just chilling out deep inside Pakistan, in a well-gated/high-walled compound and after hearing that the intelligence was receive in Sept, sounds like he could have been killed before the winter holidays, given the tools that are available, but who really knows.

We'll be finding out more as these days pass and how much was known and when. Also, did you guys see that May 1, was also the date we found out Hitler committed suicide. Coincidence?


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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2011 12:08 PM »

Here is a post from MuslimMatters on statements from authors and Shayookh as they get released:

http://muslimmatters.org/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-is-dead-muslim-matters-writers-shayookh-chime-in-updated-as-we-get-statements/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Muslimmatters+%28MuslimMatters+Posts%29&utm_content=Twitter

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« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2011 12:44 PM »

Salams,

Its interesting how they've been parading the other captured figures of Al-Qaida, and of Saddam H. as well. Yet they were too quick to feed OBL to the fish?! The pic of dead body that is floating around is doctored, their is an identical pic of his from some years ago (when he was younger), and the strands of hair on his face, position of his lip and teeth et al is exactly the same as that in the pic of his when he was alive.

Here is the pic: http://twitpic.com/4s92m2 - Unfortunately it still scores points with the uninformed masses...

So this whole episode sounds really dubious.

What worries me is that OBL's obscured death/burial (be it information or disinformation) would be used by the US however she wants it to use. They can carry on in Afghanistan in all likelihood, or invade Libya instead for OIL. And rest of the world would be able to do jack about it...

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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2011 12:55 PM »

Yes, the sea burial is strange in that sense. Did they take real pictures? Yes, the Guardian had a story that the picture is doctored, hope people realize that (I didn't until I saw that, though I saw pictures via Pak TV, so was that fake too?).


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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2011 02:30 PM »

Somehow, I think this has everything to do with Obama's re-election. Kill the guy and gain popularity.
Very recently, I saw a documentary called "Alex Jones-The Obama Deception" which was all about Obama(and all the previous presidents) being a puppet president, while the actual rulers of the world are businessmen. Another one called "Hijacking Catastrophe" tells you how 9/11 was engineered and that Saddam Hussein's removal and regime change in Iraq was needed to bring Benjamin Netanyahu to power in Israel. After watching these two movies and Jesse Ventura's TV show and his speeches and talks, my belief in the media has almost vanished.

In any case, I hope that whatever happened, whether or not it was real, makes this world a better and peaceful place to live, InshAllah.
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2011 02:55 PM »

Salaams,

Excerpt from: http://goatmilkblog.com/2011/05/02/muslims-react-to-news-of-osama-bin-ladens-death/

MS
"Im not a Muslim. I am not celebrating this man’s death. I am celebrating the hope and opportunity for peace his death may eventually create. Living in America, I see my share of hate and intolerance toward Muslims and people who “look Muslim”, whatever that means. I am ashamed of our treatment of our Muslim citizens. I am sad that our military caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of foreign citizens in the search for this man. My fellow humans, where ever you may be, we need each other.
"

Allen Victor
"Anytime followers of any religion or political ideology feel thier beliefs justify arrogance and hate. I hope governments and people around the world will continue to speak out as did Obama at the death of a terroist. As a socialist and an American I feel that radical Islam must change and denounce distorted teachings. I also think governments in the western nations have taken far right policies to the extreme and have helped support stupid regimes in the name of money(note however critics of western governments are no better at implementing justice…including socialist). In the next 20 years the world will need to redefine social ideas about democracy and make more concerted efforts on social issues. When we sell weapons to people like Gaddaffi aren’t we the real children in the picture here?
Thank you for allowing my opinion to be expressed.

Allen"

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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2011 04:20 PM »

if i were living in pakistan, i'd be seriously worried about major blowback.

this is damning proof that pakistan can't be trusted with nukes. and that means folks in boots are gonna come in and take them by force. 

and if i were india right now, this would be the perfect opportunity to walk over the borders and have a picnic in islamabad.  nobody is gonna have the conviction to stop someone from doing that, not now, not after pakistan has been proven to be the homebase of public enemy #1.

worrying times...

assalamualaikum
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« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2011 05:59 PM »

Asalaamu Alaikum

There is so much misinformation in the media nowadays that actually believing what anyone says is a stretch!!

At the end of the day, Allah knows best and He will bring us all to account for our deeds.

On a slight tangent, what this incident is also a reminder, however, is that death can visit us at any time, be it in a villa in Pakistan or a house in Alabama.

Complacency, procrastination and heedlessness should never be the hallmark of a Muslim and, indeed, if sometimes we fall below the benchmark required of us we should actively endeavour to pull ourselves back up before our limited time draws to an end.

''Today we are here, tomorrow we may not.''

A statement which seems to be a running theme of 2011 and the momentous year thus far.







Say: "O ye my servants who believe! Fear your Lord, good is (the reward) for those who do good in this world. Spacious is God's earth! those who patiently persevere will truly receive a reward without measure!" [39:10]
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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2011 06:08 PM »

wsalaam wrt,

Good point brKhalid! I've seen a number of Muslim reactions and most are "good riddance", but a few are all interested in the conspiracy theories. Yes, I've seen the two pictures, they do seem doctored and the whole details of everything along with the "burying his body at sea" is very fishy (no pun intended). But I hate how Muslims always get caught up in the conspiracy theories like in 9/11. To be honest we will NEVER know what happened for real (until the hereafter perhaps) and 99% of the world believes in the official version. So when Muslims start making up things, speculating or defending terrorists in a round-about way (Oh they couldn't possibly have done it) it just sounds like denial to everyone else. Why can't we just accept it, condemn things as they appear and get over it. If we claim Allah will judge everyone and knows ALL of the truth why do we want to make judgements about things here ie defending 9/11 hijackers or OBL.
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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2011 06:50 PM »

salaam,

No 'like' button here eh? Br Khalid.good points , 100% with your thoughts today.

Life goes on. We all have bills to pay so we must work:).  If they got him, then good I suppose. There is still a lot to worry about in this world. Let's get on with it Smiley

Much love to you all. Life sure is not the same though since 2001. Can't see much changing quite so fast.  In time, as God Wills. Keep the faith.

2011 does have this theme you mentioned. In many ways it has been affecting us all. We are here but for a short time and nothing is ever guaranteed.

peace



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« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2011 06:58 PM »

Finally! terrorists like him must go down they're just ruining the beautiful image of Muslims and Islams.
Allah knows best.

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« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2011 07:14 PM »

Yes, ma'sha'allah BrKhalid you always seem to put things in perspective with these news items and how they can teach us something or at least be a reminder for us (I think I've said this before, but I don't mind repeating myself). Indeed, I actually said to myself earlier today as I walked through our campus this morning, that it reminds one of one's own mortality. Though we hope our end isn't such a violent one, we always have to remember we could be gong at any time or that we may find out our number of days remaining is not as long as we may have thought.

I have to admit though, I was thinking, he is one step closer to receiving the Ultimate Justice from the Ultimate Judge, Al-Hakam.

It seems like all these figures that we are seeing, in the Arab uprisings, don't seem to realize they will have to answer for their deeds and the one deed they have in common is that of taking lives, innocent lives. We are all familiar with the ayah on how taking one life is like killing all of mankind. I guess I can't be too curious about what will happen to people like OBL, when I've got my own soul to worry about, but for the time being, I'm glad he is facing that next step, no longer able to hide from those who wished to see justice done - because as far as the next level of Justice is concerned, the Judge saw everything that he did, Whom he could never hide from and only was given a short reprieve from his inevitable end, which it seems he desired, so hope he enjoys the 'fruits' of his toils - here's hoping the 'refreshments' he receives won't be too soothing.

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« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2011 07:53 PM »

Another interesting/weird article...

Osama Bin Laden Burial Breaks With Islamic Tradition, Say Scholars


Osama bin Laden did not receive a customary Islamic burial, despite what U.S. government officials reported, according to experts in Muslim funeral rites.

"Dumping the body into the sea is not part of any Islamic ritual," said Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, president of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy and a physician of internal medicine. "Koranic scripture says God created him and he must return to the earth."

Bin Laden's body was likely dropped into the Indian Ocean early today, although the White House has not said exactly where.

The corpse was taken to the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson, officials told ABC News. The burial at sea was done in accordance with Muslim law -- a Muslim seaman conducted the process, said the prayers, and bin Laden's body was wrapped in the appropriate way.

"We are ensuring that it is handled in accordance with Islamic practice and tradition," an administration official said. "This is something that we take very seriously. And so therefore this is being handled in an appropriate manner."

It is rare, but when a body must be buried at sea, there are rules, according to Al Islam online.

The body should be lowered into the water, "in a vessel of clay or a weight tied to its feet," and as far as possible, it should "not be lowered at a point where it is eaten up immediately by sea predators."

Tradition dictates that the body is washed by Muslim men and a funeral prayer is said, then it is buried as soon as possible, usually within 24 hours. The body is wrapped in a shroud of white cloth and the face is moved toward mecca. The remains are always buried in the earth.

Similar to the orthodox Jewish tradition, bodies cannot be embalmed or in any way preserved and the coffin, if used, must be wooden.

Cremation is prohibited, because it is considered disrespectful, and unless a person died in an accident at sea, they would never be thrown in the water, according to Dr. Muzamil Siddiqi, chairman of the Fiqh Council of North America and a scholar on the legal systems of Islam.

"They don't even have a casket -- the body is in the ground," he said. "After a person dies, the body is treated like any other human being. We don't do a retaliation on the dead body."

Scholars say that even those who are criminals and murderers are given the Islamic rite of burial.

"Even those who are executed have a proper burial given to them," said Siddiqi. "It is strictly forbade any mutilation -- even of the enemy's body."

God reckons with a person's deeds in the after life on judgment day, he said.

"This is not a normal procedure," said Siddiqi. "But if scholars in Pakistan said this is OK, it's OK."

Sources told ABC News that President Obama authorized the bombing of a compound outside Islamabad in Pakistan last March, but worried about collateral damage and wanted evidence of bin Laden's body and DNA evidence.

No photos have been released.

Instead, he authorized a daring operation for ground troops to enter the compound low to the ground and undetected. It was scheduled for Friday afternoon, but because of weather, was postponed until Sunday.
Critics Say Bin Laden Didn't Deserve Rites

Khalid Latif, chaplain at New York University and director of its Islamic Center, said that Islamic law is "flexible" in how it handles burial, especially in this case. The question would be not "how to bury a body, but how Osama bin Laden's body would be buried."

He said that the government's approach was reasonable -- letting bin Laden's body, "wash back and forth in the sea."

"If we think about burying him in the ground, there are multiple scenarios," he said. "The problem is people don't want him buried near them or their loved ones. Giving him a place on land would create an opportunity for many individuals to unleash and lash out their rage against him. He made lives terrible for so many of us."

Officials were also worried that having a burial site might become a place where his sympathizers would "glorify" his acts, according to Latif.

"There are people who believe that this man was someone to look up to, even though he distorted our teachings and grossly misinterpreted Islam," he said.

Some critics say the White House was trying to play the "respect-for-Islam" card. But American Islamic leader Jasser said Osama Bin Laden is not worthy of that respect.

"As one who is devoted to Muslim and its ideology, it makes me nauseated and sick that someone would make sure he had a religious rite given to a man like this because he was an evil barbarian who declared war against our nation."
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« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2011 10:24 PM »

Sis J - I read a similar article on Yahoo, but I think it included some other clerics, so I'll put it here and then a video by someone I know you are a fan of, Robert Fisk: who met OBL 3x

Islamic scholars criticize bin Laden's sea burial

CAIRO – Muslim clerics said Monday that Osama bin Laden's burial at sea was a violation of Islamic tradition that may further provoke militant calls for revenge attacks against American targets.
Although there appears to be some room for debate over the burial — as with many issues within the faith — a wide range of senior Islamic scholars interpreted it as a humiliating disregard for the standard Muslim practice of placing the body in a grave with the head pointed toward the holy city of Mecca.
Sea burials can be allowed, they said, but only in special cases where the death occurred aboard a ship.
Bin Laden's burial at sea "runs contrary to the principles of Islamic laws, religious values and humanitarian customs," said Sheik Ahmed al-Tayeb, the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning.
A radical cleric in Lebanon, Omar Bakri Mohammed, said, "The Americans want to humiliate Muslims through this burial, and I don't think this is in the interest of the U.S. administration."
A U.S. official said the burial decision was made after concluding that it would have been difficult to find a country willing to accept the remains. There was also speculation about worry that a grave site could have become a rallying point for militants.
The official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive national security matters.
President Barack Obama said the remains had been handled in accordance with Islamic custom, which requires speedy burial, and the Pentagon later said the body was placed into the waters of the northern Arabian Sea after adhering to traditional Islamic procedures — including washing the corpse — aboard the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson.
But the Lebanese cleric Mohammed called it a "strategic mistake" that was bound to stoke rage.
In Washington, CIA director Leon Panetta warned that "terrorists almost certainly will attempt to avenge" the killing of the mastermind behind the Sept. 11 attacks.
"Bin Laden is dead," Panetta wrote in a memo to CIA staff. "Al-Qaida is not."
According to Islamic teachings, the highest honor to be bestowed on the dead is giving the deceased a swift burial, preferably before sunset. Those who die while traveling at sea can have their bodies committed to the bottom of the ocean if they are far off the coast, according to Islamic tradition.
"They can say they buried him at sea, but they cannot say they did it according to Islam," Mohammed al-Qubaisi, Dubai's grand mufti, said about bin Laden's burial. "If the family does not want him, it's really simple in Islam: You dig up a grave anywhere, even on a remote island, you say the prayers and that's it."
"Sea burials are permissible for Muslims in extraordinary circumstances," he added. "This is not one of them."
But Mohammed Qudah, a professor of Islamic law at the University of Jordan, said burying the Saudi-born bin Laden at sea was not forbidden if there was nobody to receive the body and provide a Muslim burial.
"The land and the sea belong to God, who is able to protect and raise the dead at the end of times for Judgment Day," he said. "It's neither true nor correct to claim that there was nobody in the Muslim world ready to receive bin Laden's body."
Clerics in Iraq, where an offshoot of al-Qaida is blamed for the death of thousands of people since 2003, also criticized the U.S. action. One said it only benefited fish.
"If a man dies on a ship that is a long distance from land, then the dead man should be buried at the sea," said Shiite cleric Ibrahim al-Jabari. "But if he dies on land, then he should be buried in the ground, not to be thrown into the sea. Otherwise, this would be only inviting fish to a banquet."
The Islamic tradition of a quick burial was the subject of intense debate in Iraq in 2003 when U.S. forces embalmed the bodies of Saddam Hussein's two sons after they were killed in a firefight. Their bodies were later shown to media.
"What was done by the Americans is forbidden by Islam and might provoke some Muslims," said another Islamic scholar from Iraq, Abdul-Sattar al-Janabi, who preaches at Baghdad's famous Abu Hanifa mosque. "It is not acceptable and it is almost a crime to throw the body of a Muslim man into the sea. The body of bin Laden should have been handed over to his family to look for a country or land to bury him."
Prominent Egyptian Islamic analyst and lawyer Montasser el-Zayat said bin Laden's sea burial was designed to prevent his grave from becoming a shrine. But an option was an unmarked grave.
"They don't want to see him become a symbol, but he is already a symbol in people's hearts."
___
Associated Press writers Barbara Surk in Dubai, United Arab Emirates; Jamal Halaby and Sameer N. Yacoub in Amman, Jordan, and Zeina Karam in Beirut contributed to this report.


Robert Fisk on Bin Laden death

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« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2011 04:15 AM »

If they did not want to do the proper Islamic burial they should show the body/video to everyone, and quit making an excuse that it would disrespect Muslims if he was buried immediately.
If you care about the Muslim world then you need to show the body because most people in the Muslim world don't believe it and that is the main problem now. They feel everything are lies. The best thing to do it is show it and show the whole tape. Don't people see people getting shot in movies all the time. Its not like they tortured him there right. It needs to be shown
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« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2011 11:46 AM »

Salaams,

Well they did show the dead bodies of Saddam's sons, and that too from all sides, while they were dead.

Not to mention the capture, investigation and hanging video of Saddam. At that time they said that they want everyone to know that they are really dead.

I think they only had it confirmed only recently that OBL died a while ago, and now they are trying to make good use of that confirmation to make electoral campaign on Obomber stronger.

Another lie they told is that the operation went smoothly and there was no loss to US. Well Pak airforce actually shot down one US heli, and its all over pakistani media. Journalists have seen the rubble.

Checkout this video:
Exposing the alleged killing of Osama - Zaid Hamid - Part 1


Exposing the alleged killing of Osama - Zaid Hamid - Part 2

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« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2011 07:45 PM »

Salaams, so what do you guys think now that Pr. Obama has announced they are not going to release the photos??

I didn't watch the videos above, but will do later insha'allah.

BABA
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« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2011 09:56 PM »

wsalam,

another interesting article focusing on the house: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-death-raid

u know however it went down, and whatever happened i don't think we'll ever know the truth. this is like 9/11 where questions will always remain but no one will ever know the truth.

i hate when muslims get all crazy about conspiracy theories. it's not like we can ever piece together what really happened. we should just condemn things as they appear and move on. let Allah judge.

the problem is first by doing this, it makes it look like we are supporting or defending terrorism or the person's actions like the 9/11 hijackers or OBL. secondly we are just wasting our time because we will never KNOW what really happened. and third 99% of the world will believe the official version no matter what so that's what we should be dealing with!

we don't have to follow blindly or not have questions, we can just choose to put our efforts into being good muslims ourselves, dawah and political change by more effective means, than trying to be private detectives trying to find out "what really happened". this same thing happened after 9/11 so many ppl refused to believe it and just kept going on about their conspiracy theories, in the meantime just being muslim became illegal!, building mosques, hate-crimes, deportations, detainements, prejudice in the workplace and so on. islam was being destroyed because we were all busy trying to figure out "what really happened" which again no one will ever know conclusively in this world. w'Allahu alam.
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« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2011 10:32 PM »

Agreed Sis Jannah and I think you said this earlier in the thread as well.

Yes, we lose time, effort, and energy that should be put elsewhere when we think about and keep pushing those theories - where has it gotten us?

As you said, when it comes to such things, to a certain degree, we are never going to know the whole truth and if it is revealed one day, we will all be long gone as it is. So right Sis J, we just have to worry about ourselves and trying to be the best we can be. If we do anything to show that we support terrorism or any such acitivity, such as having doubts or whatnot, it is just taking 100 steps backwards and we are behind as it is!

Indeed, Allah Knows Best, so if we have Faith, we should leave it at that, to Him and since in the end, regardless of what we may think of others' wrong, we have to face that same test as everyone else. I think it is easier said than done, as we humans are made weak, but we should at least try out best to move towards that goal.

OK, prepare to throw up/vomit, because I saw an interview on the BBC, with two Muslim guys, one from MAC (Muslims against crusades) who were threatening to protest the royal wedding and OMG, I wanted to punch my screen!!! He used 'sheik" when talking about OBL, even thoough the other speaker was giving him proofs against him via the Sunnah and Qur'an and he wouldn't condemn OBL's acts but kept saying when will you (The BBC host) condemn what Western nations have done in Muslim countries (so the BBC guy just said, so you condone the attacks . . ). Here is the link, so I won't have to describe it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13275882


Also, I've seen interviews with Pakistani/Afghanis/Indonesians who are defending OBL and saying how was a Muslim warrior and seeing kids who raised their hands when asked what he was and they all said "Martyr!" It is so sad to see these young ones so brainwashed - I know that they have seen the carnage caused by Western attacks, but if they knew about the Islam the Prophet taught, they would know that such men as OBL are not following Islam . . you know Sis J, I was reminded of your "Letter" that sparked a lot of debate, but I think that same sentiment is appropriate here . . that would be one monster letter though! Or rather, a letter to these uneducated people or in the case of those in Indonesia the  misguided - they need to be educated in the real Islam - boy are they missing out on some beautiful stuff.

BABA
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« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2011 10:50 PM »

Salams,

Sorry sis J, but your post didnt make much sense to me.

So basically what you are saying here is that Muslims should not ask for proof and should just go with the flow while the strong media around us keeps shoving their conspiracies, versions and evil agendas down our throat?

And when Muslims would say that there isnt much substance in some news (because there just isnt), this would make the questioner of that news a conspiiracy theorist?

And lastly when Muslims would not buy news like when Mr Powell told big lies in front of the whole world and blamed iraq of having WMDs... then its us Muslims who are at the wrong side for questioning such news, because while we question (due to this fault of ours) practicing islam becomess illegal?? Wow - How so very apologetic! I dont see any relation here, as one can keep doing good islamic and social deeds while questioning what must be questioned.

Whatever happened to not believing the news "at face value" whenever someone brings it to us. Especially in a case when that 'someone' has worst track record, and history of lying (i.e the CIA). I hope we realize that all news that we got through CNN and Fox till now (and the name echoed by Beebs et al) is coming right from CIA headquarters.

Hate against Muslims didnt start after 9/11, it just got worst after twin towers attacks. I've read many accounts of Muslims getting called towel heads, sand niggers (and all that 'good' stuff) before 9/11 quite a few times. No matter how apologetic Muslims in the west become, haters would keep hating... Which is sad, but is a fact.

The knight doesn't wait when he's ill or has cancer brother, the knight fights on... He finds a strategy, changes tactics, and hits hard.
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« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2011 11:23 PM »

Yeah I'm with H2H on this one. If something looks, smells and tastes like fish, we can't just let it go, especially when it's bound to have a huge consequence on our lives.  I can't believe that NOT a single western journalist isn't questioning what's going on. 

Just because we will never know what really happened, doesn't mean we should just let it go.
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