// Mosaic, do you think it's Halal or Haram? Why or Why not?
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Author Topic: Mosaic, do you think it's Halal or Haram? Why or Why not?  (Read 1762 times)
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moderatesufi
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« on: Jun 25, 2011 10:43 PM »


What do people here think about Mosaic?
Some Musjids are covered in them. Do you think it is a good thing?
What about people covering their houses with Mosaics?

I personally don't like them.
Irritating bits of tiles made in to designs.
Do you think Muslims should be like how the Prophet PBH made them, or covered with decorations.
Is covering with Mosaics copying the Christians and how they decorate the churches?
If so are Mosaics Harram?

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« Reply #1 on: Jun 26, 2011 07:06 AM »

Billions of Muslims start their mornings with a toothbrush whose shape is no no way similar to the one used by their Prophet!

Mosaic or not makes no difference. Believers should rather focus on the prayer than the tiles.  Smiley

moderatesufi
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« Reply #2 on: Jun 26, 2011 08:41 AM »

Not sure you understood my question.

Let me make it clearer.

In the time of the Prophet pbh, Musjids were plane humble buildings.
Which were constructed using minimum cost.

Is the purpose of a Musjid the worship within in or looking at the pretty pictures all over the wall, ceiling and floor?
If it is worship, why waste Money and time making pretty pictures on the walls, ceiling and floor?

Is such waste even allowed in Islam. Even if allowed is it more rewardable to keep the Musid plan or cover it in decorations.
Do do decorations, especially the ones on the floor distract us from the remembrance of Allah?
Remembering, that during prayer our eyes are focused on a position on the floor?
Wouldn't it be better if the carpets were plan?
As well as the walls and ceilings?

 
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« Reply #3 on: Jun 26, 2011 11:53 AM »

Please use the "haraam" word with great thought and forbearance.

I have no opinion on this. Because I think we should start focusing on far more important things. Will declaring it haraam reduce the number of tiled masaajid in the world? No. All it will do is further divide us and further distract us in minutiae.
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 23, 2011 11:23 PM »

In Islam, the Halal and Haram is totally clear.

Everything is Halal, except the few things Allah and our beloved Prophet (peace be upon him) have clearly told us not to do. Contrary to what people usually make out, Islam is not just a big list of 'don't do' s.

Nobody is allowed to make Halal things Haram if Allah and the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) have not declared them Haram and vice-versa. If you are questioning the halalness or haramness of something that has not been mentioned, remember Allah's command has covered EVERYTHING from life from interest to hijab to orphans..If you find it unmentioned, it is probably Halal.
We should not be in the business of trying to be more holy than God, my mother always advises.
Why not encourage a modest but beautiful house of Prayer? Why not be inspired by the gentle, delicate ways? As muslims are we not allowed to appreciate the joy of beautiful color and art? Of course this mosaic is not holding a position higher than our Lord. If your position is that you do not like mosaics than perhaps a better place for you to pray is an empty room at home. 
Is the mosaic going to be so beautiful that we do not hear the beautiful prayers being said? If so, this is our own wrong doing.
For, even in the most simple carpet one can become lost in the pattern of weaves and knots. Do you not ever look at the wall at "space" out or lose your focus? Or in simply the clouds, I believe this is called being human, non of us are above it.
Ask people who meditate, for even in pitch black silience we are unable to control the hum of our own distracting thoughts, in a black, empty backdrop [our eyes closed] while we make du'as.

 bebzi

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands,
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 31, 2011 05:36 AM »

Thinking about it, Allah subhana wa taala might appreciate a mosque which was more plain..I would imagine..who knows!  Roll Eyes Allahu Alam however, a mosque that is attractive to the eye might bring in more people for the wrong reasons but keep them there for the right ones, if that makes sense which in the end is  madinaflag good

If I had a mosque I would keep it simple but have a large garden outside, a heavenly sweet garden where people could just go and appreciate God's natural decorations as opposed to man made ones. I know, a strange idea to throw in there.

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands,
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« Reply #6 on: Aug 31, 2011 09:21 AM »

Salam
If we consider the traditions of the prophet, making the interior plane especially where the praying people's sight could reach would be more appropriate. Prophet(pbuh) asked for his cloth to be changed because its design attracts his attention. He discouraged  embezzlement in anythn we do. On the other hand, Allah loves hygiene, and our showing off of His Ni'imah. So the decorations could not be wrong so long as it doesnt affect people Khushu'. Allah a'alam.

"Whoever rejects false deities and believes in Allah has grasped a firm handhold which will never break." Q 2:256"
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 20, 2011 10:27 AM »

Just out of curiosity, Moderatesufi, what are your opinions of the current beautifications of Haram Sharif in Makkah? The Kaaba was not originally decorated with this black velvet cloth and pure gold writings, nor was the Masjid this big. It did not have marble floors or tall minarets, countless praying mats, beautiful lights to light up the masjid at night.

Do you think these things shouldnt have been done?

moderatesufi
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« Reply #8 on: Sep 20, 2011 12:16 PM »

I think enlargement is more necessary than beautification. People spit on the floor outside of the Harram, and drop all kinds of filth there. Because the current size isn't big enough, many people have to pray on the filthy roads outside of the Harram.
On the whole I see visual beautification as an unnecessary waste of money.
If money is what is preventing further extensions, then visual beautifications should be sacrificed.
Saudi does have a quota system for huj. We don't really notice it in the west because a large number of Muslims in the west are very lax in their adherence of Islam especially in regards to the obligation of Huj. Here Muslims are richer than Muslims in Muslim countries, but make the excuse of poverty not to fulfil the huj obligation. They have the money to visit relatives back home, or fly to this Muslim country or that Kaffir country for vacations but don't seen to have the far smaller sum required for huj?
This means western countries never oversubscribe their Huj Quotas which are calculated as a percentage of the number of Muslims. So any Muslim is able to go on Huj any year on demand.
But in poor Muslim countries, where people are much more religious, and take the adherence of Islam much more seriously, including the obligation of Huj. Many more people try to go Huj, and Quotas are over subscribes so they use Huj lotteries to decide who gets to go. So some people can never go, even though they have the desire and have saved enough money for the trip.

Even if refraining from every act beautification means an extension can be made to make room for just one extra Hajji, I think that is a price worth paying. But I am sure, the money saved from beautification, can result in room being created to accommodate a lot more than one extra Hajji?
Don't you agree?
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« Reply #9 on: Sep 20, 2011 03:38 PM »

Ok I have been to Makkah and Madinah several times and
1. I have yet to see anyone spit or lay filth anywhere
2. The current size is adequate for all times of the year except Hajj, where the size of the city itself almost becomes inadequate.

Being someone who grew up in Saudi Arabia, I know and have seen the vast amounts of wealth and effort that goes into the maintainence and upgrading/modification of Makkah to accomodate for Hajji's. There were, for a few years, bridge and tunnel collapses but the last few years Alhamdullilah things have gone very smoothly.

I dont understand your point on well off/poor muslims and their ability/want to to do Hajj and its relevance to the topic, which is whether a masjid should be beautified.

I also think its unfair to judge a persons adherance or lack thereof to Islam based on their geographical location or financial status.
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« Reply #10 on: Sep 20, 2011 04:42 PM »

modersatesufi, I agree with a tiny bit of your opinion that beautification should be sacrificed for expansion. However, I wouldn't call it sacrifice coz beautification in any way isn't that important. But, if it's feasible then Alhamdulilah.

Speaking of further expansion of the Haramain, I get your point but like austmuslimah said, pilgrims exceed the capacity only during Hajj. The rest of the time it's mostly empty. The last time I went (Jan '11), I could touch the yemeni corner for every round of the tawaf, the first floor was completely empty except for a few people who made use of the silence to catch a nap, even the courtyard wouldn't be filled to it's capacity during prayer times. If I had authority, I'd think of the huge waste of money in maintaining such a huge building. Don't you think the money could be used to help poor people in say, Somalia?

Anyway, that's another extreme. In general, both the Haramain are pretty much enough for those living in the moment. During Hajj, they could probably make temporary arrangements to fit in those extra Hajis.

Accommodation is something that really needs to be addressed. People from third world countries get stuffed into a small room/apartment while Americans, Canadians etc etc - white skinned passport holders, get plush hotels. I believe that needs to be changed. But, it's easy for us to say all this sitting in the comfort of our homes. I reckon we would make the same mistakes if we were in charge of everything coz the authorities probably have their hands full with so many other things.

Sorry for going off on a tangent. I just can't resist the bias.
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 22, 2011 07:24 PM »



If the amount of people making hajj is more than the capacity allows, shouldn't we be saying Alhamdulilah, for the deen and for the efforts that these people have made to travel? Certainly, if they have made arrangements for hajj, Allah swt, knows their hearts and will accept their prayers and their hajj even if they have to pray outside.

Think of it from the perspective of having a sacred and holy site, why should you not beautify this spot and keep it respectfully decorated? Do people not decorate their homes and keep them nice? I think the more rules we make for ourselves that there may not be clear fatwas on, the more we stray. Allah swt has said that decoration has certain guidelines it must follow, as long as someones home, the masjid or the kabbah is decorated as such what is the problem?

You complain about inadequacies in wealth distribution-this is sad, you are right, we can only each do our part. But, this is also due to corruption and lack of governance, my heart goes out to a place like Somalia, but they have no government and are in civil conflict, even if every country donated money, this does not solve their problems.

Yes, hajj is a requirement to those who can afford it. For those who assist others financially to make this religious requirement, I am sure there is much reward. See what your own local community can do to add to this or your family and friends.

I think that we should also avoid perpetuating stereotypes that all Americans or Canadians are such a way. I am an american, maybe because I am not a so called 'white skinned'passport holder, I am not wealthy. However, half of my family is white, you would be a fool to say that all of us have the easy route. Take one look at the country TODAY and you'll see that this is far from true.

This topic seems to be all over the place now, I am sure I added to that, but to the points people have brought up about injustice in the world, the unfortunate. Do not look to what others are doing or not doing, or not doing. if you see things that make you sad, don't wait for your governments or "someone else" to change this problem. Change it yourself, if you don't and if you just voice dissatisfaction over something you are not trying to solve, are you not a hypocrite?

Sorry this was not as organized as I wished.
I hope the gist has been gotten

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands,
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« Reply #12 on: Sep 22, 2011 07:41 PM »

Quote
I think that we should also avoid perpetuating stereotypes that all Americans or Canadians are such a way. I am an american, maybe because I am not a so called 'white skinned'passport holder, I am not wealthy. However, half of my family is white, you would be a fool to say that all of us have the easy route. Take one look at the country TODAY and you'll see that this is far from true.
I was referring specifically to Hajj. And it's not the white passport pilgrims' fault either. It's on the authorities. They pay extra attention to the white passports.

There's no doubt that life in the US has become a lot harder but that's a different issue.

Quote
Do not look to what others are doing or not doing, or not doing. if you see things that make you sad, don't wait for your governments or "someone else" to change this problem. Change it yourself, if you don't and if you just voice dissatisfaction over something you are not trying to solve, are you not a hypocrite?
Get me Saudi citizenship and a meaningful position within the Hajj Ministry and I'll be more than happy to make those changes. It's not in my hands to do so otherwise I would've done it. Whenever you see something that's wrong, change it with your hands, if you can't, with your tongue, if you can't do that either, then at least you're supposed to curse it in your heart - not the exact Hadith but the essence of it. And that's what I am doing, speaking up. If that makes me a hypocrite, I don't mind being one.
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