// Homeless person?
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« on: Jun 30, 2011 06:32 AM »


Salam Alaikum! Many days ago, I saw a homeless person sitting on the sidewalk. She didn't seem waiting for someone to offer her some money. I haven't offered her anything. I was very hesitant. Like can I freely lend her money?
People used to and still tell me to watch out from the people sitting on the sidewalk because they can be pretending to be poor. But I had a feeling this lady was ok and deserved it.

The other thing that stopped me was that there were people passing by. You'll find this weird...I love offering the poor ones something but not in front of  people! Not because I'm arrogant. In the town where I'm living, people are somehow nosy and like they want to check what you're doing and how you're doing it. They wouldn't criticize me I guess. But I don't want to be displayed as a goody good.

Sad I feel ashamed till now...it's not the first time. I acted hesitant many times like this before! You understand? I hate this hesitance and this unneccesary bashfullness I'm having. So how bad is that?Sad
You find this weird, don't you? Don't laugh please.

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« Reply #1 on: Jun 30, 2011 01:41 PM »

I totally get what you're saying. It happens with me all the time, I can never tell who's a genuinely deserving person and who's not. Moreover, in my country, begging is an organised cartel with the money mostly going to all sorts of illegal activities.

PS - If you can understand hindi/urdu, there's a bollywood movie called "Traffic Signal" which takes you behind the scenes of the begging industry in India.
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« Reply #2 on: Jun 30, 2011 04:43 PM »

wsalam,

definitely hard decisions! i think if ur really unsure if they're part of a criminal gang and don't want to encourage those kinds of things there are so many charity organizations you can give to. for me, i think if ppl ask tho, it's always good to give a small amount, for yourself as a good deed, instead of trying to judge "if they need it" "if they deserve it" "if they're fake". why not just give them a small amount? but i dunno. i also don't see why giving money to someone who looks like they need it and are not 'begging u for it' should be wrong! so don't worry what other ppl think/say iA, do what feels right to u! if giving charity makes u a goodygoody who cares!!
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« Reply #3 on: Jun 30, 2011 08:38 PM »

If we encounter someone who appears poor/homeless, we'll usually just give whatever food we might have on us, ie, granola bars. That way I don't have to worrry what the money is going for.
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« Reply #4 on: Jun 30, 2011 08:55 PM »

I always figure, which is the worst mistake: 

giving money to someone who would use it for something bad, or not giving money to someone who  might REALLY need it
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« Reply #5 on: Jun 30, 2011 10:01 PM »

Moreover, in my country, begging is an organised cartel with the money mostly going to all sorts of illegal activities.

PS - If you can understand hindi/urdu, there's a bollywood movie called "Traffic Signal" which takes you behind the scenes of the begging industry in India.

i don't think you should be parroting anecdotal evidence, heresay and the same arguments stingy people use not to give money to beggars. 

when someone asks for money/help, we are supposed to try to give something (anything, no matter how small) if we can.  i'm pretty sure that there are numerous hadith supporting this.  whether they use it in the right way is irrelevant.  we are just fullfilling our duty.

[2:272]  You are not responsible for guiding anyone. GOD is the only one who guides whoever chooses (to be guided). Any charity you give is for your own good. Any charity you give shall be for the sake of GOD. Any charity you give will be repaid to you, without the least injustice.
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« Reply #6 on: Jun 30, 2011 10:45 PM »

salams,

in indo-pak the gangs are known! ppl even know who belongs to which gang/gangster boss so i don't think it's fair to say it's only about stinginess. and there are other gangster type things going on like illegal road blocks in places which are downright scary. you either pay or you don't go thru/are targeted. Everytime we went through one of those we prayed ppl wouldn't notice our amreekanness through our burkas!! bad things happen over there even kidnappings and killings. in one house down the road from an aunt, a gang entered and slit everyone's throat. we have organized crime in western countries but nothing like the downright corruption and things that ppl get away with over there. so i'm not going to judge someone who doesn't want to support that and instead gives money to a charity that he knows well and supports their work.

BTW akhan I think ur talking about Traffic Signal?? Bollywood independent film? I've seen it and it's a really heartbreaking and great film.
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« Reply #7 on: Jul 01, 2011 01:43 AM »

i don't think you should be parroting anecdotal evidence
Come see for yourself what's anecdotal and what's not. And I am not basing my judgement just on that movie, everybody here knew how the cartel operates long before the movie was made. You won't know what goes on in a particular place unless you live there.

Yea sis J, it is Traffic Signal, Madhur Bhandarkar was the director, he's known for making movies on what happens in real life. btw, Alhamdulilah Hyderabad has managed to keep away from the throat slitting, barring the once in a blue moon case. I guess southern India isn't as criminal as the northern part.

Before the British looted India, it was called a "soney ki chidya" (golden bird) and it still is, with trillions of dollars of black money stashed away in Swiss banks, it's just the tyrants that have changed, earlier it was the British and now it's these politicians and their brother criminals.
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« Reply #8 on: Jul 01, 2011 09:28 AM »

Come see for yourself what's anecdotal and what's not. And I am not basing my judgement just on that movie, everybody here knew how the cartel operates long before the movie was made. You won't know what goes on in a particular place unless you live there.

dude,

assalamualaikum where do you think i live?  i see it everyday.  i have asked so many people here whether these beggars are actually tied to criminal gangs, and i got many different answers.  so, it is HERESAY, because we don't know if they are, and there isn't enough proof to prove that they are. and many people think they aren't

the real thing that gets me going is reading stuff in the newspaper by "Mr Big Mullah 1" that helping such people is haram, and hearing rich grandfather types with big beards at dinner parties self-righteously telling me that "islamically, you shouldn't help them."

finally, jannah....lol....it seems you've heard too many stories.  it's like the american muslim so worried about getting diarreahea on his trip back "home" that he gets the runs on the plane journey there-- before he even lands!

there are a lot of urban legends in this part of the world.  you have to take every one of them with a pinch of salt...

but the main point is that if somebody asks, and you have stuff, you should give something, i believe.  note, this has caused many fights with my little brother when we were kids.
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« Reply #9 on: Jul 01, 2011 01:29 PM »

thanks lucid! i think that newer bollywood tourist movie delhi belly is on ur mind :p but no i don't imagine these things, these are things my cousins, uncles, family over there tell me and father tell me. and of course akhan has lived there all his life too! did they make it up? doubt it. i don't know i can't imagine where u live in bangladesh is that different?? how do u guys have law and order and we have criminal gangs, corruption and killings??
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« Reply #10 on: Jul 01, 2011 02:19 PM »

Salam all,

Just to add my tuppence worth. I think each should give what they feel is right and they live with own conscience. When I went to B'Desh all those moons ago, my experience was that sometimes my family and I gave, and sometimes we didn't. Especially in open, urban, Market/bazaar type places, we preferred to not give (Although I'm sure I did sneakily) in Bangladesh, if someone asks for "beek/veek/beekkha" then I was told never to refuse anyone who was asking for food. One way to give sadaqah is with food.
On the other hand, I've had instances where you give what you can in monetary terms and the said beggar has complained that it wasn't enough or sufficient! The cheek!

For us Western Desi's, it's completely different. I tell you the peeps in Bangladesh can smell you a mile off that you're not a local, even if you dress like a pauper. It must be something in the air.

Br akhan & Sr Jannah, I am defo gonna have to watch this film & Delhi Belly too. I haven't watched either! Shock, horror!  Cheesy

وَلَسَوْفَ يُعْطِيكَ رَبُّكَ فَتَرْضَىٰ

And soon will your Lord give you so that you shall be well pleased.
Al Qur'an (93:5)
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« Reply #11 on: Jul 01, 2011 06:40 PM »

dude,

assalamualaikum where do you think i live?  i see it everyday.  i have asked so many people here whether these beggars are actually tied to criminal gangs, and i got many different answers.  so, it is HERESAY, because we don't know if they are, and there isn't enough proof to prove that they are. and many people think they aren't

the real thing that gets me going is reading stuff in the newspaper by "Mr Big Mullah 1" that helping such people is haram, and hearing rich grandfather types with big beards at dinner parties self-righteously telling me that "islamically, you shouldn't help them."


You live in India??!! Sorry I didn't know, I thought were American/Canadian/British/... Smiley But nonetheless, I'll stick to my view that begging is an organised industry. And I agree with you that Mullah saab or grandpas are perhaps too over enthusiastic when it comes to Haram policing. I don't know whether it's islamic or unislamic but I refrain from giving money to beggars because it doesn't satisfy my conscience. I want to be sure that the money I give goes to a good cause and really helps someone. That's the whole idea.

akhan has lived there all his life too!
Correction!!
I lived here for two thirds of my life. For the first third, I was in Saudi Smiley


On the other hand, I've had instances where you give what you can in monetary terms and the said beggar has complained that it wasn't enough or sufficient! The cheek!

For us Western Desi's, it's completely different. I tell you the peeps in Bangladesh can smell you a mile off that you're not a local, even if you dress like a pauper. It must be something in the air.

Br akhan & Sr Jannah, I am defo gonna have to watch this film & Delhi Belly too. I haven't watched either! Shock, horror!  Cheesy

Oh yea,beggars here do that all the time. I remember, when I was a lot younger, I was playing cricket in the gulli(this doesn't have a perfect English definition, lane would be close but still a mile away) when a beggar knocked on a neighbour's door and asked for money coz he was hungry and blah blah blah...the neighbour brought food for him but the beggar said he wants money for food, tea and cigarettes Grin

Foreigners are completely recognisable even from a mile away Smiley It's just the way that you guys carry yourselves that blows the cover. On the flip side, I am sure you people can recognise an FOB desi when you see him/her in your country Smiley

Delhi Belly I've heard, is not morally sound, apparently filled with vulgarity and profanity. Don't know how true that is though.
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« Reply #12 on: Jul 01, 2011 08:29 PM »

wsalam,

maybe the best translation for gulli would be alleyway? yeah i just heard delhi belly is about young guys and tourists who have diarrhea etc so hence my comment to lucid!! would never suggest ppl actually watch it! lol  Shocked as for traffic light, not as good as salaam bombay a movie that you can never forget!! so i'd definitely recommend salaam bombay if anyone wanted to see what the lives of these child beggars was like. at the end ur so attached to them and their lives and u feel their helplessness and realization that they will never be able to escape their lives and then the movie just ends!!  :'( :'( amazing! i like films that stay with u and change u like that. very needed in that part of the world instead of the bollywood dancing on swiss mountains and flower fields stuff Wink


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« Reply #13 on: Jul 01, 2011 09:20 PM »

On the other hand, I've had instances where you give what you can in monetary terms and the said beggar has complained that it wasn't enough or sufficient! The cheek!

For us Western Desi's, it's completely different. I tell you the peeps in Bangladesh can smell you a mile off that you're not a local, even if you dress like a pauper. It must be something in the air.

Br akhan & Sr Jannah, I am defo gonna have to watch this film & Delhi Belly too. I haven't watched either! Shock, horror!  Cheesy

lol.  that's happened to me several times -- a beggar complaining for not getting enough.  but duddette, why are mentioning the rare case whether a beggar was ungrateful?  frankly, i am surprised that beggars don't complain more often.  we give them the smallest denomination notes, and they happily accept it. if i was a beggar, i'd be going berzerk every now and then.

also, its actually hard to notice foreigners in most cases,....,unless you're visiting a village. in urban areas people dress in western clothing.  most people in cities don't even care nowadays if you're from overseas.


Oh yea,beggars here do that all the time. I remember, when I was a lot younger, I was playing cricket in the gulli(this doesn't have a perfect English definition, lane would be close but still a mile away) when a beggar knocked on a neighbour's door and asked for money coz he was hungry and blah blah blah...the neighbour brought food for him but the beggar said he wants money for food, tea and cigarettes Grin

again, why bring up a singular story?  90% of the time beggars are very friendly and they will accept whatever you give them.  why bring up the anecdotal evidence?
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« Reply #14 on: Jul 01, 2011 10:00 PM »



lol.  that's happened to me several times -- a beggar complaining for not getting enough.  but duddette, why are mentioning the rare case whether a beggar was ungrateful?  frankly, i am surprised that beggars don't complain more often.  we give them the smallest denomination notes, and they happily accept it. if i was a beggar, i'd be going berzerk every now and then.

also, its actually hard to notice foreigners in most cases,....,unless you're visiting a village. in urban areas people dress in western clothing.  most people in cities don't even care nowadays if you're from overseas.


again, why bring up a singular story?  90% of the time beggars are very friendly and they will accept whatever you give them.  why bring up the anecdotal evidence?

I'm sorry, but with all due respect I have to disagree. It's not an isolated case, it happens all the time. Especially when I was there in Bangladesh. I lived in the city, not the village. In fact it didn't happen as often in the village, when we went to visit relatives. The whole point of us being advised NOT to give money, is because when you give to one beggar, then you have to give to loads of them who seem to appear from nowhere. Again, it's not just noticeable about how we (Western desi's) are perceived as different, we ARE treated differently too. Not necessarily for the better, I might add. I remember one lady saying she'll pray that I get an "Meerikani" husband if I gave her money. Another claimed she had stomach cancer when in fact she was pregnant.
I'm not saying you shouldn't see good in people, and people cannot help their circumstances. On the other hand, Allah gave us hands to work. So I may come across as harsh, but I feel people should go out and get an honest job. If you are so poor, why would you reject money that someone else has had to earn? Personally, if I was so poor...I would be happy just for people to give me food so that I can feed my family, especially kids. Isn't that what's important?
I live in the West, yet if i put my hands out and ask for money... I don't think I'd have much hope in getting much money. Point is, I wouldn't want to!
i'd much rather provide employment to a person, sponsor a child to be educated....etc... etc... begging is a vicious circle.

I didn't know what professional beggars were until I went to B'desh!.....
I have the utmost respect for every class, creed... I remember having admiration for the rickshaw drivers 15 yrs ago ( I was a child back then)... thinking they had honest jobs, and they were hard working for their families. I used to think they'd make great cyclists for the Olympic team with a little bit of training and right support!

وَلَسَوْفَ يُعْطِيكَ رَبُّكَ فَتَرْضَىٰ

And soon will your Lord give you so that you shall be well pleased.
Al Qur'an (93:5)
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« Reply #15 on: Jul 02, 2011 01:29 AM »

maybe the best translation for gulli would be alleyway?
hmmm...maybe, but I still don't think it matches perfectly.

lucid, I think it's best not argue too much. If you wanna give, go ahead but I won't and neither will I approve of beggars no matter how sweet or friendly or grateful they seem to be. Maybe there are a few who are truly deserving but the vast majority is not. And those who are the deserving type, won't be begging for long.

I'm sorry, but with all due respect I have to disagree. It's not an isolated case, it happens all the time. Especially when I was there in Bangladesh. I lived in the city, not the village. In fact it didn't happen as often in the village, when we went to visit relatives. The whole point of us being advised NOT to give money, is because when you give to one beggar, then you have to give to loads of them who seem to appear from nowhere. Again, it's not just noticeable about how we (Western desi's) are perceived as different, we ARE treated differently too. Not necessarily for the better, I might add. I remember one lady saying she'll pray that I get an "Meerikani" husband if I gave her money. Another claimed she had stomach cancer when in fact she was pregnant.
I'm not saying you shouldn't see good in people, and people cannot help their circumstances. On the other hand, Allah gave us hands to work. So I may come across as harsh, but I feel people should go out and get an honest job. If you are so poor, why would you reject money that someone else has had to earn? Personally, if I was so poor...I would be happy just for people to give me food so that I can feed my family, especially kids. Isn't that what's important?
I live in the West, yet if i put my hands out and ask for money... I don't think I'd have much hope in getting much money. Point is, I wouldn't want to!
i'd much rather provide employment to a person, sponsor a child to be educated....etc... etc... begging is a vicious circle.

I didn't know what professional beggars were until I went to B'desh!.....
I have the utmost respect for every class, creed... I remember having admiration for the rickshaw drivers 15 yrs ago ( I was a child back then)... thinking they had honest jobs, and they were hard working for their families. I used to think they'd make great cyclists for the Olympic team with a little bit of training and right support!

So did you get a Meerikani husband? Cheesy

And I love your idea about training the rickshaw drivers for the Olympics Smiley Somebody should give it a try.
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« Reply #16 on: Jul 03, 2011 07:57 PM »

Assalamu Alaiykum,

Unfortunately I didn't marry a "Meerikani" hubby, but some 2nd generation western Desi like me in UK.....  Smiley Cheesy Smiley

With regards to Olympic Cycling team, made up of Rickshaw drivers would be a great story, & give millions hope Insh'Allah!

I can see it now, kind of like the film "Cool Runnings" but more ace! Super ace, a real 'rags to riches story'. Smiley

وَلَسَوْفَ يُعْطِيكَ رَبُّكَ فَتَرْضَىٰ

And soon will your Lord give you so that you shall be well pleased.
Al Qur'an (93:5)
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« Reply #17 on: Jul 04, 2011 02:29 AM »

Perhaps we should start training them and make a documentary on it. That'd get some attention and maybe sponsors too. Man, I love this idea, hopefully I will take it up once I start earning, InshAllah.
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« Reply #18 on: Jul 04, 2011 03:00 AM »

Br akhan, if you start up an Olympic team full of Rickshaw drivers & get the right support ( I mean the best) & training for these guys, I will support your endeavour to realise this dream however I can. I'll become a fan on fb, give sadaqah, sponsor..... Whatever I can, Insh'Allah!  All I can say is, get on with it.... I'm getting excited at the prospect of a Rickshaw driver winning GOLD!! woohoo!..... Smiley

وَلَسَوْفَ يُعْطِيكَ رَبُّكَ فَتَرْضَىٰ

And soon will your Lord give you so that you shall be well pleased.
Al Qur'an (93:5)
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« Reply #19 on: Jul 04, 2011 10:53 AM »

Br akhan, if you start up an Olympic team full of Rickshaw drivers & get the right support ( I mean the best) & training for these guys, I will support your endeavour to realise this dream however I can. I'll become a fan on fb, give sadaqah, sponsor..... Whatever I can, Insh'Allah!  All I can say is, get on with it.... I'm getting excited at the prospect of a Rickshaw driver winning GOLD!! woohoo!..... Smiley

Sure InshAllah, kudos to your creative mind though, I could never think of such an idea. Our rickshaw driver would be the first to break white monopoly over cycling Smiley
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