// Anonymous ? for the bros
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« Reply #75 on: Oct 16, 2008 01:47 PM »


I can honestly say I dont think it happened in my classes in economics everyone just wants to pass, or perhaps I was oblivious to it all, my friend group consisted of all girls.

So nope nothing like you describe.

« Reply #76 on: Oct 16, 2008 02:01 PM »

It isn’t really to do with looks, more to do with western culture.
Muslims look for a partner, and there it ends.
Kaffir look for the next date. So I wasn’t proportion to be some kind of supermodel, if any thing I was purporting to look like a Kaffir, which is in no means a complement.
I think most of the brothers have experienced this to some extant.
With sisters it is different because the Hijab says, leave me alone!
And even when they don’t wear hijab, Asian girls don’t really have a reputation of putting out so are less desirable to kaffir.
« Reply #77 on: Oct 17, 2008 03:32 AM »

I just want to know what kind of lame people would ask a totally clueless person a question.  Are you sure they were just approaching and asking because you were just so "gosh darn good looking" or were they actually doing it to get a good laugh over your total ignorance?  I mean a teacher that would knowingly repeatedly ask a student what they don't know without then in turn correcting and teaching that student should not be a teacher at least not at a reputable institution.

Looks fade as one ages (unless they opt for artificial means to retain that measure of beauty) so a person with no substance is not worth much for very long.  In fact only those who really are nothing of value resort to flirting and playing the game and never take the time to learn the rules or decide what constitues a "win".  Protect me from shallow superficial people.

Yes kaffirs look for the conquest and the fun without the committment but sadly Muslims are beginning to fall into that trend because finding a spouse is exhausting and who wants to waste a good portion of their lives looking for someone to love for life when a little bit of love from many will do just as nicely.

Supermodels don't actually have proportions; they are flat boards and nothing more than breathing manniquens - hence why they were once (and possibly still are) referred to as "clothes horses".  True women have curves and bust and a lot of times butts too.  Genetically women have more fat because because a woman's body must carry the next life within itself.  So those that refuse to eat more than a lettuce leaf and a tomatoe wedge with air on the side lest they get fat are ridiculous and I feel sorry for them.  I'm not saying that I'm "all that and a bag of chips/crisps" and certainly not thinking too highly of myself but ..... even in complete hijab I can stop traffic and stop brothers in mid-sentence (not too shabby for a mama of 3 huh?) But the ones that are quick to act on their taking notice are not the kind I want to be bothered with; I expect to be approached with respect and recognized for the mind I have hiding under my scarf.  Is that asking too much? 

« Reply #78 on: Oct 17, 2008 10:39 AM »

Yes I’m sure because the “ask for help” is just the conversation starter. The next stage is the “thank you, and you’re really smart” over time it moves on to “would you like to come with me to”. I try and snip it in the bud by adding dawa and telling them that their religion is clearly false and unless they convert to Islam they will go to hell for ever and ever, I also describe hell to them. Most of them leave me alone after that. The only problem is some start crying, but that’s not so bad because they do it quietly so it doesn’t cause a seen.
With blacks its harder cause dawa doesn’t put them off. So I have to move to the next stage and tell them how Muslims are going to take over their country of origin, that usually puts them off and they just tell me that they told their family and they all think I’m mad. If that doesn’t work, I have to tell them that I’m not interested in them, then they just start snivelling, and try and look away whenever I’m around.

With teachers it is just flirting. It is more common between male teachers and female students. But it does happen to a leaser extent between younger female teachers and male students. It isn’t just me, it happens to others as well. And I’d say it is tolerated as long as the clear line isn’t crossed.
You’ve misunderstood what I said about teachers, they would praise for the wrong answer, but at the same time they would give me much more help to make sure I know the correct one and in one case correct my wrong answers during an exam.

“even in complete hijab”
Hijab actually makes women look better, and niqab better still. What I meant by what I said is: Hijab tells people, I don’t want to be flirted with, you are not going to get a date with me so don’t waste your time.
So all but the sickest of perverts wouldn’t come up to you to talk, because the hijab tells them you don’t want it. But there are strange people who do.
Anyway, being a mother of three and at an age where most are married, how on earth would anyone know that you aren’t married already?
Or that you would like to be?
Some men find it hard to marry non-virgins especially if they are virgins themselves.
My dad was trying to get this Turkish guy to marry from our extended family but he refused stating that he had kept himself away from harram all his life so he would expect his wife to be of the same state at the wedding night. My dad got angry with him and shouted, some of these girls were divorced on their wedding night, and how is that their fault? I think my dad wanted to get him a divorced/widowed because he was past 30/40 and the only never married females in our family are teens.
I think it is difficult for men to marry someone with children especially if they have none themselves, because they would feel that they are caring for someone else’s responsibility. Thinking back to before I was married I would have considered someone with a new born maybe even up until the age two or three but nothing older. Because anything older would know that I’m not the father, with babies you can still bring them up as your own.
But as I said there are males willing to marry someone with older kids, I have found a whole bunch, but women who’ve been divorced are scared that it would happen again so some would find an excuse to reject each and everyone.
What she usually says to me is, her kids are settled now, so she doesn’t want to take any risks marrying the wrong man because she doesn’t want to go through all that again.
« Reply #79 on: Oct 17, 2008 01:44 PM »


Have you tried wearing a sign around your neck, 'Beware, Mozlem, approach at own risk' I'm surprised word didnt get round to be honest, surely you'd only have to rant and start foaming at the mouth a couple of times before youre labelled the wierdo and given your very own half of the classroom?

I think your teachers were probably trying to encourage you to learn, paising for incorrect answers isnt uncommon, they then give you the correct answer and tell you why your answer could have been right and the reason it isn't. The nice teachers do that, it prevents hordes of teenagers becoming irreversebly damaged by unfettered criticism. Perhaps the teachers were just plain worried that out and out criticism would push you completely off the edge, given your behaviour....

I dont think I've ever met anyone I could look at and inform with conviction that they would go to hell.

« Reply #80 on: Oct 17, 2008 02:18 PM »

'Beware, Mozlem, approach at own risk'

Yes that was me, but it was Muslim males who thought of me like that.
Because they were the ones I would approach to try and get to pray, learn to pronounce al fatiha correctly or dump their girl friends. They were the ones why tried to run and hide every lunch break.

With kaffir females they have no right to complain because I don’t approach them; I don’t even look at them. If they didn’t want me to explain to them how their religion was false and how they were hell bound if they didn’t convert they shouldn’t have tried asked me out.
The only time someone started telling others about how I was an extremist was one who belonged to a deviant sect when I told her that she was really a kaffir and not a Muslim, and then I explained what kaffir means to her. She called one of her deviant teachers to explain to me that they were really Muslim, and I told her the same thing.
But then again it wasn’t my fault. She shouldn’t have asked me out.
Even if she wanted marriage and not just dating as her deviant religion which she thinks is an Islamic sect allows, Muslims like me aren’t allowed to marry Kaffirs like that even if they call themselves believers.

I don’t do what a lot of those brothers do and speak nicely to kaffir females with the excuse of Dawa. Those brothers always seem to be with females and the good looking ones at that. My attitude is if a female comes to me for dawa I’ll tell her the basics then tell her to find some sister if she wants to know more because I really cant be bothered. I got enough sins to worry about without worrying about whether my intention was dawa or flirting.
« Reply #81 on: Oct 17, 2008 02:51 PM »


Why all the females were coming to you IF you were following sunnah, keeping to yourself, not staring them and NOT being overly friendly with them Huh? I think they were getting wrong messages from you, otherwise everybody I know male or female, hijab or no hijab, beard or no beard, once it is know that they are Muslims and that they are serious about their  religion people dont approach them in that way.
Its your attitude Brother, you seriously need to check your self first before making all those judgements on "deviant muslims" and the brothers who you were not nice to.
There is something really wrong in your attitude where even when you are walking with your wife people are coming to you??? Normal people, Muslim or non-Muslim, are not that crazy or in dire need of partner that they do the extreme things you mentioned.

``Abu Zarr reported that the Holy Prophet said: No man accuses another man of being a sinner, or of being a kafir, but it reflects back on him if the other is not as he called him.''

(Bukhari, Book of Ethics; Book 78, ch. 44)

« Reply #82 on: Oct 17, 2008 04:36 PM »

The last message was so sexist and really demonstrates the feminist perverted mindset of both brothers and sisters.

This feminist perverted mindset states:
If any unsolicited advances happens to a female if is the fault of the male.
The female is not to blame. It doesn’t, matter what she says, does or wears, it is always the man’s fault.

Your post states when a male is the victim: it must be his fault. He must have done something to solicit it.
As far as you are concerned men are always to blame.
It just shows people who claim to be against sexism are the biggest sexists of them all.

I’ll tell you why I get them
It is because I have white skin so most people don’t know I’m Muslim. And the few that do assume I’m one of “those” Muslims, the Bosnians, Albanians, Turks and Russians and everyone knows how we with white faces practice Islam.
Even though when Islam came to Russia the ancestors of most Indian Muslims were still worshiping cows.

Muslim men don’t wear Hijab or Niqab, so if your skin is white like mine, no one has any idea about your religion.

Do you still think I did something to provoke them?
If I was a sister describing the same thing would you a accuse her of provoking it?
Or is this comment reserved for brothers?
Brothers bad, sisters good, that’s what we’ve been programmed to say by the mass media haven’t we?
Even if I was a kaffir woman describing this, it would be completely believable, and everyone would be full of sympathy. No one would even think for a second that she would have provoked it.
Look at the Egyptian thread, about women being harassed there.
Any accusations against them?
Those anyone think they provoked it?
This even applies to the Kaffir tourists there.
So clearly when Muslim males harass Kaffir females that is wrong, the Kaffir women are right, they did nothing to provoke it, those men are evil.
But when Muslim men get harassed by Kaffir women in Kaffir countries, the man must have been doing something wrong. My be he looked in the wrong direction. So what am I meant to do, walk with my eyes closed? Use a cane or a guide dog?
And you want to know something?
That wouldn’t work, because I have got my bum pinched by strangers on the street, so I had no way of seeing them until it happened let alone making eye contact.
And I bet that is my fault too!

And it is not just me who it happens to. It happens to a lot of men including a lot of brothers. But everyone else likes it, including brothers. When questioned why they allow these kaffir whores to hug them, they say it is dawa.
That is what is hard to believe for you lot. Not the fact that it happens, but the fact that this brother doesn’t like it when it happens. And we all know all brothers are a bunch of sinful perverts who would like nothing more than being felt up by dirty kaffir whores.
« Reply #83 on: Oct 17, 2008 04:55 PM »

I'm albino you dont get whiter than me....still never been approached by even one, never mind hordes of people :'(
« Reply #84 on: Oct 17, 2008 04:57 PM »


But dude, seriously this is such wierd behaviour, I've never met a male or female who has ever experienced this type/level of sexual harrassment before ever.

I must be hanging out with ugly people.

« Reply #85 on: Oct 17, 2008 05:10 PM »

Brother you sure are angry - you might want to practice sunnah(considering according to you, you are the only one who live Islam)  called ADAAB. You have been calling people dirty,whores etc and when some one points out that it could be your behaviour or attitude you explode Huh?

To the poster above this one, Dude you are hanging out with NORMAL people ugly,beautiful or whatever .

« Reply #86 on: Oct 17, 2008 05:39 PM »

“why use the word whore?”
What would you call someone who pinches the bum of a complete stranger?

And please read the Egyptian harassment page. Do you assume only men behave like that, and the only people on the receiving end are women?
Can’t you comprehend that it happens in Kaffir countries as well?
And as I said before, I’m not the only brother it happens to.
I bet it happens to most of the brothers here, but they tolerate it.
Shrug it aside while being secretly proud of it. Don’t complain about it for fear of being labelled a Homosexual?
Don’t feel disgusted by it because you might fear that you are one?
What you can’t comprehend is women behave just as bad as men, but most men in Kaffir societies like it, sad to say including Muslim men. They claim that they tolerate such behaviour because of Dawa. So when someone comes up to them to give them a hug and a kiss, they let them instead of shouting at them to stay away.
When a kaffir ask them to go with them on a date, they go, and tell the brothers and themselves they are just going to do some dawa on her.
If anything because I’m so rude to Kaffir it happens less to me. Do you see all those Muslim men who are married to Kaffir women, or women who converted after they dated, do you think the man always made the first move. Because if you are right about Kaffir women and they have some kind of built in detector in their heads so they know to stay away from Muslim men and only make passes at Kaffir men that’s what you are saying.

What I’m saying isn’t anything strange. Sisters should ask an attractive Kaffir women how many times a week someone including a stranger would make an unsolicited pass at her. It happens just as often in the other directions and men unfortunately including Muslim men. Men wear such conquests as a badge of honour. That’s why you see so many mixed race kids with Muslim surnames being brought up by single Kaffir mothers.

What you have to understand is women ask men on dates just as often as men ask women. Kaffir don’t know they are not supposed to ask Muslim men. Most Muslim men say yes when asked and go. The religious Muslim men think they are doing dawa when they are really dating.
Some Muslim men don’t like being asked on dates. Some Muslim men don’t consider dating as Dawa. It is not as easy to identify a Muslim male as easy as it is to identify a female. And I don’t know why am justify myself to you lot and what any of this is to do with the tread?
« Reply #87 on: Oct 17, 2008 05:48 PM »

“I've never met a male or female who has ever experienced this type/level of sexual”

That is because it is only harassment when it is unwanted. Kaffirs always approach each others, daily; weekly that’s the way they function.
And you are compressing many years in to smaller time frame because you read about them in a couple of emails.

If there are any converts here, how many times were you asked on a date before you converted over a 10 year period?
« Reply #88 on: Oct 17, 2008 05:56 PM »

The last question was rhetorical question, don’t answer.
« Reply #89 on: Oct 17, 2008 11:06 PM »

As salaamu alaikum

Seems like I missed quite a bit while I was "slaving away" at work; actually today was a bit slow (now that's scary).

Let's see any advances by the same (or opposite) become harassment including sexual harassment at any point that it is unwanted; even if after dozens of times of tolerating or even enjoying the attention the individual suddenly has a change of heart and says "No" and it continues it then becomes harassment.  And it applies to both men and women although it is generally women who file sexual harassment complaints.  In fact anyone that witnessed it and was uncomfortable has the right to file a claim of third party harassment.  (Guess what I do or a living?)

Now to the query directed to me earlier:  I don't know how anyone could not know that I was looking.  I mean I've never been seen with a brother - at the majsid or any function; I'm either always alone or with one or all of my children; I've never mentioned a husband or the need to rush home because of a husband; I keep mentioning my desire to get married; sat sobbing in the imam's office about it and while he tried to intecede on my behalf it turned out that all the available brothers who "claimed" they wanted to get married weren't serious so the imam rejected them all before I even had a chance to meet them  (see I'm willing to concede and let a man handle things when necessary; I'm not that independent); some people have casually raised the issue of my family status and I've just as casually said I'm not married.  Sooo unless all those people are "thick" in their own heads then I don't know what else I can do; except perhaps borrow that neon sign (not sure I'd wear it around my neck; perhaps velcro it to my scarf) and change the wording to say "Searching for a Husband" or how about "Need a wife?  I'm available" or some other such ridiculous thing to show my utter desperation but somehow I think that would really scare them off.  The only thing that might give the wrong clue that would lead someone to think I was married is that I'm fond of jewelry and so do wear bracelets (I do however take them off during prayer at the masjid because they are too noisy) and two rings (one belonged to my grandmother and the other I bought myself because it was "soooo pretty and sparkly" and hey I deserved it.)  Aside from that I'm just not getting what the problem is.

It was mentioned that women who were previously married may perhaps be afraid to try again out of fear of yet another disaster with another "lunatic man" and the need to protect their children if they have them.  Well that may be true but then the same could also be said of men who were previously married; they are afraid to try again lest they get another "lunatic woman" (wonder how she got that way..... hmm... could it have been his fault?).  While sure I may have some of those questions/concerns I also know that I can't expect the worst because in doing so I might actually cause it to happen unintentonally.  So I look at things with a fresh perspective but also know that should it happen to tank I can hold my own and fend for myself even if I don't want to nor feel I should have to.

Now I've got a friend is is trying to help but it seems her recommendations are all going to be non-Muslims and I just won't go that route.  I love her like a sister but I don't think she quite gets it and right now I just can't get into the long-winded discussion.  Everyone (non-Muslims) seem to think it's harmless to just go out for coffee or dinner or a movie or whatever; I say it's quite harmful because "things" could happen.
« Reply #90 on: Oct 18, 2008 08:52 AM »

The only thing I can think of that might improve your chances is if instead of answering “I'm not married” you answered “I’m looking to get married”.
For some brothers the jewellery in public maybe a problem, may be if you can restrict wearing it to at home and in front of sisters and mohram?
And may be the direction you should be moving in dress is more Islamic instead of less. Fewer colours and loser Jilbabs, bigger Hijabs and maybe even a Niqab?

I think there could be difference between US musjids and British ones? In British ones it is impossible to notice anyone. All we do is in, out. We go in as soon as Adzaan, or may be even the takbir and we leave soon after salam. There are very few Musjids with women’s areas and they are usually located in such a way that males never notice them and probably vice versa. So you’d only be seen with your children, or on your own and that by women.
Functions are the same, they are completely separated.
Even when we are invited to a function and it turns out to be mixed all the men and women congregate at opposite ends of the hall so there is no interaction and men and women are never seen together.
Men don’t even look in that direction by accident. Doing so can result in a beating.
Some people including myself would probably take someone’s head off if we assumed someone stared at our wives so single people would fear that if they don’t fear Allah enough to keep their eyes to themselves.
The best way to judge whether it is possible to know others know that you are single, is to ask yourself do you know who are the single men around you?
And that might be your best bet now. Instead of waiting to be found, start finding.
I know it isn’t the in thing with women. Among Muslims, men won’t recognise you even if you recognise them because they would turn their gaze whenever women are around. There are ways of avoiding embarrassment. I’ll mention a few of the times I was proposed to and you can probably use that as a guideline to do your own.

Once while walking down the street I was given salam by a sister who asked if I was married I said no, then she said are you looking, I said yes. She told me her friend wanted to know and wanted a meeting. I refused to have a meeting without her parents present because of the issue of wali so gave her my details so her father can contact me.
She had studied at the same Madrasa as me, but because the women’s section is located above and behind the men’s section it is impossible for men to see them and they can see us. In the meeting she asked if I had seen her and I said no, and she said she had seen me.
Anyway, the point is, just because you can see someone doesn’t mean they can see you. Just because you notice someone doesn’t mean they notice you.
If you don’t know someone is married you can send someone to find out for you.
If you don’t know they are looking you can still send someone to find out for you.
A “no” will be of no embarrassment as they don’t know it was you who sent until the meeting.

There is another lesson from this. She had asked the ulima who ran the course if any of the brothers were unmarried, they said no except for this one brother who was just returning to his country so his out of bounds anyway.
She thought it was suspicious because most were very young.
So that’s why she sent someone to ask.
But what the scholars said wasn’t true. All the brothers except for that one who returned home were unmarried. I think they meant suitable. Because that married brother was a clone of the ulima there. So what they like in a male may not necessarily be what you like.

Ulima aren’t perfect. You need to put real pressure on them to get them to do what you want. My wife knows of this sister. Who got in to a bad divorce, she was very upset and very lonely. She kept asking at her musjid to find her someone. They didn’t until she put real pressure on them and kept nagging them. Then they found her, an older convert, who she is very happy with. He is better with her kids than her ex because he had been ill so is unable to have his own kids.
So don’t just tell them to act for you force them. Make it easier for them to find someone for you than to be harassed by your constant nagging and then they will do it.

If you are scared that if you have a meeting and they say no you’d feel embarrassed there is another line of defence.
Once this boy approached me. And started asking a bunch of very personal questions. I thought **** what is all this about? But I answered because I didn’t want to be rude. The next day he came up to me and said my Mum wants to see you. I thought “?”, but my curiosity got the better of me so went with him. There his Mother was sitting on a chair with another older woman in Niqab, both asked me a bunch of questions and said there was someone who asked about me. Then asked a bunch of questions about the type I would be willing to marry which including would I be willing to marry someone older to which I said yes but still able to have children for the next few years, to which they asked how old is that and I said 35(before you all start saying 35 is not old, I was only about 20 at the time which would make 35 only a couple of years younger than my mother), the boy then repeated the money question, and I repeated I have £**** in the bank, to which he said that is not enough. Then his mum asked me more questions about how the partner should look like, very detailed questions and they said they will find someone more suitable.

So you can get someone else to do the meeting for you, so no one will know it is you who is looking.

The only thing I can think of that might be a problem is the divorce issue. Has your Ex given you Talaq? If not try and obtain it even if you have been given a civil or a Kula by an alim. Why?
There are a lot of married women who haven’t been given divorce who get married without telling the next husband they are still married. Men might fear this of Kula and civil. I have mentioned what happened to my friend who married an Arab. I know the board doesn’t allow attacks on Ulima but I think I have to do this here to explain this point and why it could be an issue. Here in the UK we have a problem with a new type of Khawarij. They call themselves Moderates but they are clearly khawarij as they declare anyone who disagrees with them on minor issues as a kaffir. I have a friend who prayed in Brixton Musjid for a long time. He agreed with them in every shape and form until one day he mentioned support for mujahideen. They declared him a Kaffir, took his wife from him and married her to someone else without divorce. Every time he sees that brother who married his wife, he says “How is my wife”, the brother responds, “don’t you mean mine” and he replies “No I mean mine, I haven’t given her divorce yet”.
So if you have a divorce be clear that you have it, because there are a lot of sisters marrying without one.
« Reply #91 on: Oct 18, 2008 02:22 PM »

Okay changing my response is an easy fix and I do forget that sometimes words must be chosen with care and a thought clearly articulted rather than thinking that people will understand the rest of the statement that is implied.

Change my wardrobe; interesting but with the exception of a select few items for special occassions I don't really wear loud/bright colors nor outrageous patterns - well nothing that would make me stand way out.  So I can't say that there's a problem with what I wear.  The one thing I can say is I'm not into the "frumpy" look because I've seen just how sad and I dare say depressed the sisters that do opt for that look are.   Niqab I've considered but being on my own I just don't see it happening but am prepared.  I still don't know how some sisters actually see let alone drive while wearing it; I admire them but know I couldn't do it and feel safe about it.  However considering how many of the brother in my area dress I know they are not judging someone on manner of dress.  Sadly some look like they aren't even Muslim.  It's so weird to be in the majid and see the women as a sea of jibabs/abayas/salwar kameez/scarves/niqab all blending together and looking effortlessly pulled together and the brothers looking like a raging sea of chaos and confusion - some in need of a serious wardrobe makeover  and some lessons in the difference between casual and formal (sorry couldn't resist trying to share some of that image). 

I suppose I can re-evaluate the jewelry but it's not gawdy; I do tasteful. 

The masaajid here each have there own foccus; some are more open and receptive to the visible presence of sisters and others relegate us to some dank back room.  I steer clear of those with the oppressive ideals because what is the validity in such segregation.  Where I do go it is more than just a place for prayer but rather has vitality and serves the full purpose it should - the center of activity where people spend time not just as a community but as a family.  Ye there are those times when the brothers navigate to one side and the sisters to the other (human nature I guess) but there isn't tension nor hostility in such situations.  Is that not how it was in our noble past?  The masjid was a place of prayer; a place of learning; the center of life?  So if the ones in the UK tend to be "in and out" places with the sisters off in secondary areas I guess I won't be going to visiit relatives anytime soon and expecting to feel the same bond in a masjid there.

There's no concern on my part about not being totally free from the possible intrusion of ex.  Closed chapter of my life never to be revisted.  I learned from it; grew from it; moved past it.

While admittedly only another man could really understand the mindset of another man (I tried to understand it once and only gave myself a headache so no more of that for me) I never considered that there was the possiblity that any screening or scrutiny was done by using the self as the baseline measure.  Viewing that then yes I guess all the others would have fallen short when the imam stepped in to help me; still the thought never occurred to me.

I've tried making the first inquiry; yes it took courage because for all my appearing to be so assertive when it comes to the work I do and the presentations I give and okay some of my more "colorful" and "in your face" posts I'm actually way shy by nature and always have to combat the butterflies in my stomach and the shaking knees before I say anything (if people only knew how much of a quivering wimpy basket case I were they would laugh hysterically).  But as with anything I "bite the bullet" and "go for broke".

Sometimes it's just all too much.  The lives of women aren't supposed to be this hard but reality disproves that notion.  *Big big sigh*.

Well off to start tackling today's "to do list".

« Reply #92 on: Oct 20, 2008 01:30 AM »

Musjids in the UK are very different to what you have in America because the two countries and how Islam and Muslims arrived there are very different as well as the type of Muslims and why they arrived.

Muslims came to the UK from nations conquered by the British to do Jobs that the British thought beneath them. So Muslims in the UK are amongst the poorest of all communities. There are two million Muslims in the UK, one million of which reside in London, and most of whom are in a tiny area within East London. So Musjids are generally converted houses, shops, churches and synagogues. Purpose built Musjids is something very rare.
Because Muslims are crowded in a very small area, Musjids are packed, especially in Juma. There aren’t enough Musjids and there isn’t enough room in Musjids for men let alone women (I’ve had to pray in the wadu place many times with my head just behind the toilet, not very nice). These places were not purpose built, so you can’t compare them to Musjids in the Muslim world with male and female halls. These have single passage ways where the worshipers have to squeeze past each other etc.
Muslims don’t have money or the planning permission to build proper Musjids. Not enough Money due to poverty amongst Muslims. No planning permission because of idiots who call themselves moderates siding with racist Kaffir who are against Musjids being built because they don’t like brown people and want them all to go back to where they came from.

The immigrants in America are generally a lot richer so more funds are available for more activities. Even though you have your fair share of Musjid hating moderate idiots planning laws aren’t as harsh so there is very little they can do to stop Musjids being built.
Muslims are spread all over the country so aren’t as crowded. You have empty spaces to build purpose built Musjids on, so can accommodate women’s sections easier.

“There's no concern on my part about not being totally free from the possible intrusion of ex.”
The question wasn’t really about how you feel about him. But, whether he had given you talaq.
I met a brother yesterday who told me he had just had an interview with a lady who was still married. He had thought she was divorced, but she was still married, she just wanted to find a new husband before she left her old one.
So even though you know you don’t want anything to do with your ex, the person you want to marry needs to know he is your ex.
Talaq is the clearest manifestation of this. If you have one, state it. As I have mentioned before, there are a lot of ladies marrying without one. And with people who set up Islamic courts in their front rooms or kitchens, claiming to have the authority to award Kula, how is a brother to know that court has authority?
If you have it state you have it, if you don’t phone him up and tell him to say the word, he has nothing to lose. If he has a new wife, I’m sure she would want him to state the word too.

One of the reasons I have been able to find brothers agreeing to marry the lady I’m looking to get married is she has Talaq, so there is no ambiguity about her status.
But the problem is she doesn’t like any of the people I find. And the people who I feel she would definitely say yes to, aren’t interested in someone with kids.
I had arguments with two people I asked and who refused to meet her yesterday. I’m on the verge of kidnapping someone and torturing him until he agrees. But if I do that, she would probably find some reason to reject him. Or maybe she would refuse to go through with the interview as she did with each and every person I found.

« Reply #93 on: Oct 20, 2008 11:58 AM »

Don't think that every masjid in the US is purpose built as opposed to "recycled" space.  However since even those locations that once were used as other things require interior remodeling there is no reason for the failure to make adequate space that is not isolated for the women.  The failure to do so sends the message "Women not welcome" and that is wrong on many levels.  When we consider that the segregation of women to upper or lower levels or separate rooms is not from our Muslim origins then such acts should be not be tolerated; hence why I avoid such segregated locations like the plague as I won't be treated like a second class citizen by anyone especially not from among those who are supposed to be my Muslim brothers and sisters.

As I said I have no concern about ex trying to re-stake a claim.  I am free and clear - talaq stated - and there's no looking back.  I could care less about his current wife and her feelings because of her nature and knowing that she's gotten the short end of the stick I'm actually a bit happy.

Listen if you opt for the "kidnap a brother and force a meeting/marriage" snag one for me too Smiley  because this whole thing is out of control and can make a normally gentle spirited sister a bit hostile.

« Reply #94 on: Oct 20, 2008 08:08 PM »


You prayed in the toilets?

Where on earth are you in england?
Jummah ges a bit crowded and late comers end up praying in the corridors right up to the main door, never toilets tho, would your salat even be accepted?

I'm all agog at these women interviewing men before their talaqs are finalised, speaking from experience, I run at the thought of men and it's been nearly a year since the breakdown of my marriage. The thought of interviewing prospectives makes my skin crawl!

I guess you live and learn!!!

« Reply #95 on: Oct 20, 2008 10:52 PM »

“You prayed in the toilets?”
No, read what is within the brackets again.

“Jummah ges a bit crowded and late comers end up praying in the corridors right up to the main door”

If ten more people decide to pray where will you fit them?
There are many Musjids where I have been part of the over spill out in the street, in the car park during the rain and awkward uncomfortable corners.

So ‘Reply #93’and I would have to agree to disagree on whether it is always possible to fit women in to Musjids in the UK.
‘Reply #93’I do agree that prayer space should be allocated for sisters if possible; if you saw what we had available in the UK you would know that it is often impossible.
« Reply #96 on: Oct 21, 2008 12:59 AM »

Yes we will have to agree to disagree; however since it is said that "the best rows for men are the front and the worse rows for men are the back; the best rows for women are the back and the worst rows for women are the front" then there isn't really an issue of allocated separate space for women because the allocation and designation has already been assigned.  As such if women arrive timely for prayer and have thus occupied the back few rows (even with empty rows separating the women from the men) and then a bunch of men arrive late thus filling up the empty rows with some men still standing looking awkward I ask what is the solution?  And no it is not to ask the sisters to leave nor to make them feel so uncomfortable that they "voluntarily" leave because it would not be voluntary but rather under duress.  Women have just as much right to be in the masjid as men although granted women are not obligated to be there.  Men are however obligated to arrive on time as we are all supposed to "hasten to prayer".

On the issue of married women interviewing prospective husbands while awaiting the finalization of the divorce I don't agree with that methodology; however I ask if men do it?  If so I don't see it as being a proper thing either.  It's bad enough men have an easier time in getting a divorce than women do but let's not take that ease to an outrageous level.

I'm almost of the opinion that going through the "searching and interviewing" process is like dredging a lake because yikes! some of what tries to pass itself off as "marriage material" let alone a "solid provider".   Did I mention that it was depressing and disheartening too?

« Reply #97 on: Oct 21, 2008 09:27 AM »


There is a great deal of wisdom in the iddat period.  I would guess it misnimises 'rebound' marriages, if there are such things.

I for one know I need time to mourn what has passed.

« Reply #98 on: Oct 21, 2008 12:27 PM »

Of course there's wisdom in the iddat period.  It is a time for reflection by both parties and to make sure that the woman isn't pregnant which should change the outcome (but not always).  Still let's face it the iddat period is imposed on the woman and she is basically trapped and it is expected that she will feel such remorse that she will beg for her husband not to leave her even if he was the one at fault and made the marriage miserable.  While a man is free to start an active pursuit for a replacement wife without critically examining himself and his faults.  Women are called the "emotional" ones yet they don't seek divorce for stupid reasons or because they think "the grass is greener in another pasture"; rather they agonize over the decision until they realize that they are not at fault and need "out" just to make sure that they retain their sanity.
« Reply #99 on: Oct 21, 2008 01:18 PM »


My own personal view of the iddat period, is that the first and second times, its a cooling off period for both parties, its not unheard of for (non muslim) divorced couples to turn around and re-marry, the iddat in this instance prevents that parting fro mver taking place and the accompanying trauma of a divorce.

The iddat for the third divorce works in that one can reflect and get their minds and hearts together to face the world.
It doesnt matter about the reason for divorce, pesonally, although it's a sense of overwhelming relief, there is also this great sorrow, and fear, you know the feeling of tarring all men with the same brush as ones ex, who thinking about it reasonably and rationally was most certianly not representative of men as a whole.

I dont see it as women begging to go back, if the marriage is irritrievably broken down, the three months helps one to rally round and face life.

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