// Anonymous ? for the bros
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Anonymous
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« Reply #100 on: Oct 22, 2008 02:36 AM »

Allot of Musjids in the UK don’t even have halls. They are just normal terrace houses, with normal rooms, hall ways and floors. As I mentioned planning laws are different in the UK then they are in US. Inertia remodelling needs permission too. The only thing that doesn’t need permission is removal of things not present in the original structure of the building such as stud walls.

“On the issue of married women interviewing prospective husbands while awaiting the finalization of the divorce I don't agree with that methodology; however I ask if men do it?”
It was a lot worse then awaiting finalisation. She wanted a definite acceptance from a new husband before she asked her old one for a divorce; because she had two children so didn’t want to be left alone.
There are worse cases of women with no divorce of any kind marrying again. I know one lady who has done so twice without obtaining a divorce from her first husband. This is not rare, it is quite common. When asked, they would answer, why would I need one? I can find men willing to marry me without one.

Iddut period exists for both widows and divorced. It ends before the set date if the lady gives birth.
There are many cases in the UK of women converting to Islam, getting married discovering pregnancy and not knowing the whether the father is her new Muslim husband or her kaffir boy friend she had sex with before she converted to Islam.
A well known imam in the UK said that women should leave a bit of a gap between old boy friends and marriage to a newly found husband as well, because he had to resolve too many of these.
_ _


Anonymous
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« Reply #101 on: Oct 22, 2008 02:37 AM »

for Inertia read Interior.
Anonymous
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« Reply #102 on: Oct 26, 2008 06:50 PM »

Salam

To take this back a bit since we've gone off into many areas.  It does seem quite wise (even if frowned upon) for a sister seeking marriage to interview as many possibilities as she can at the same time because it maximizes time and also maximizes the hurt time.  To go through the brothers one at a time only to be continuously be made the fool of and get hurt is insanity.  Brothers can be the most ruthless and cold creatures walking.  Why I wonder sometimes do we even bother?  Why were we women cursed with caring hearts that are filled with love and yearn to share that love while men were given hearts of stone that feel it is obligatory to hurt others?  It is all I can do right now to not go "native" on a few and tell them what I really think and not even care if there won't be ladylike words coming from my mouth; in fact ladylike won't get through but being nasty sure will have an impact.  (Oh yeah I'm pretty mad right now; I left tears behind and whenever that happens it usually means trouble - for the other party).

We can't use one's geograhic location of birth nor current life as the excuse to justify the male attitudes; it can only be some internal defect that has been allowed to fester and grow rather than be challenged and eradicated.

Muslim women are forced to choose among Muslim men only to find that the pickings are slim to non-existent and so must then either chose to remain alone or opt for the non-Muslim man whether he embraces Islam or not or even if it means leaving Islam behind.  What kind of choice is that?  A messed up one.  Sadly it seems to be a fallicy that ease will follow hardship because the hardship of the heart is not easy cast aside in favor of a hope nor a promise never realized.

Now as to the point the physical layout of the average masjid in the UK.  What internal remodeling; any room that is used for the purpose of prayer can minimally be divided into male and female rows and not require any physical barrier or structure thereby negating the need for building permits.  But of course that would mean that brothers would actually have to permit sisters inside and gracious knows that would present too much discomfort.
Anonymous
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« Reply #103 on: Oct 26, 2008 07:56 PM »

Brothers can be the most ruthless and cold creatures walking.  Why I wonder sometimes do we even bother?  Why were we women cursed with caring hearts that are filled with love and yearn to share that love while men were given hearts of stone that feel it is obligatory to hurt others?  It is all I can do right now to not go "native" on a few and tell them what I really think and not even care if there won't be ladylike words coming from my mouth; in fact ladylike won't get through but being nasty sure will have an impact.  (Oh yeah I'm pretty mad right now; I left tears behind and whenever that happens it usually means trouble - for the other party).

Sister you sound extremely bitter probably as a result of being hurt, but not all men are like this. They have feelings too and they have been hurt too. There are a lot of ruthless, cold, manipulative, shallow women out there who stomp on men's hearts too. And there are a lot of good guys out there. The problem is they're divorced, old, balding, sometimes boring. Just like we feel overlooked, they are overlooked as well. It is easy to blame all men and think of them all as jerks, but they're not. You've only to look at some happy marriages and you can see how good the men are. That we didn't get lucky like that is unfortunate, but that is part of life's tests. You must accept that your own unhappy experience(s) are your own, if only to heal your heart and move on.

Be a little less judgmental and objective. Both men and women go through the same experiences. The point of this thread was to share our perspectives, not blame all man-kind for our problems.
Anonymous
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« Reply #104 on: Oct 26, 2008 08:23 PM »

The point may be to share our perspectives including when that perspective is to blame the whole of another group based on the basis of comparision that has been established.  Looking at some of the happy marriages doesn't reveal anything because we see only what is visible and what is on the surface.  And besides being anywhere near what appears to be a happy couple only throws salt in the wound.

I gave up looking and hoping for quite some time because it seemed better to focus on myself and my own interests as a distraction.  Not to mention look inward to see what should be changed about myself.  When I finally decided that it was time to try again I went forth with a clean slate and an open heart and mind only to find the same as before - the liars and the deceivers and the game players.  Divorced men aren't the problem; balding men aren't the problem either.  The problem is finding the good guys if there are any left.

And maybe before I was bitter but now I'm just plain angry and even that makes me cry so I need to be open to just letting my heart shut down.   Rather than fight against things by keeping a warm and loving heart I should just join the game and have a heart of stone.

Be less judgemental; unless I've totally gone off the deep end I'm not exactly judgemental unless I am because I know what I won't accept in my life but if that's the case then everyone is judgemental.

Accept my unhappiness - as if I've a choice; no one else cares about my unhappiness nor anyone else's for that matter.  The only place left for me to move on to it seems is away from the life I love in favor of loving myself and having someone to love.
Anonymous
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« Reply #105 on: Oct 27, 2008 02:17 AM »

It's decided.  Despair and desperation win because reality just slapped me hard in my face.  I'm not as strong as I convinced myself that I was; besides having anything that resembles virtue is so not respected anymore.  The only ease that's coming is that which I bring forth myself.  Forget about being patient and waiting for a decent brother who is never coming and just grab a non-muslim one instead at least there will be some gratification if nothing more.  Life is too darned short to be miserable and the long cold winter is coming and I refuse to spend another one alone.  I spent the entire weekend home battling a cold and fever and it made me realize that if something were to happen to me there would be no one to really care except my kids and they would probably soon forget (heck I'm worth more dead than alive anyway).  My tearful prayers have gone unanswered for years yet I cling to hope; why bother? Hope is for losers and I'm sick of losing.  I'm tired frustrated and probably very bitter.
Anonymous
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« Reply #106 on: Oct 27, 2008 06:32 PM »

Prophet Muhammad saw gave us certain criteria to use when selecting a spouse:
"The first and foremost is religion. In a rigorously authenticated hadith, the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said, "A woman is married for her wealth, her reputation, her beauty or her religion. Choose the religious one or you may be ruined." Scholars explain that this hadith also applies equally to choosing a husband."
Anonymous
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« Reply #107 on: Oct 27, 2008 07:48 PM »

Despair and desperation win because reality just slapped me hard in my face.  I'm not as strong as I convinced myself that I was; besides having anything that resembles virtue is so not respected anymore.  The only ease that's coming is that which I bring forth myself.  Forget about being patient and waiting for a decent brother who is never coming and just grab a non-muslim one instead at least there will be some gratification if nothing more.


So would it be excusable if a guy had an extra-marital affair because his wife wasn't giving him what he wanted? Is it excusable for kids in college to be sexually active because everyone else around them is and they can't take it anymore? Is it excusable for someone who has cancer to kill themselves?


No, it isn't. And despite your despair and desperation it's not excusable to do something wrong. There are a lot of people worse off than you and me in the world. They have no family, friends, ill health, have gone through war and famine and have been tortured/raped/jailed separated from their families. What makes you think your dilemma is worse than theirs is? That is just arrogance. God says He does not burden a soul more than it can bear. But you are acting as if there is no God and that He is not Just.

He has given you this test, and yes it is a hard one, but there is much worse going on in the world. Lift yourself up and realize that God tests the one's He LOVES the most. Look at the prophets, how they were tested again and again and again, living the saddest and difficult of lives and these are the most beloved of God and the most perfect human beings!

Do not look to other's who seem to be living the most perfect of lives. God tests everyone. And for the some that God gives everything, they will end up paying for it later. Why do we have this assumption that this life is our only life and that everything in it will be perfect. This is not our home. It is only temporary. We are reminded over and over again with hardships and difficulties so we never forget this is not our home. Accept your test, realize that it is better than some others. Realize that you are still a Muslim, and that you submit. You do not despair and you do not forsake God.

Again, do not forsake your relationship with God.

Anonymous
Guest
« Reply #108 on: Oct 28, 2008 12:48 AM »

salam

It's easy to use harsh words when one has never been there.

It's wrong to do I agree.

But venting is better than quietly going out and doing the wrong.

Perhaps kind words and duas would work better in this instance.



Wassalaam
Anonymous
Guest
« Reply #109 on: Oct 28, 2008 03:11 AM »

I don't think my situation is worse than anyone else's; since childhood I've been taught that I should be thankful for what I do have because there are people that have even less. Just reading or watching the news or sometimes just walking down the street or accidently hearing another's conversation gives a daily reminder of this fact.

Yes I know that the prophets of our history were tried and tested repeatedly but I'd never dare count myself in a category even similar to them or those nearest and dearest to them; that I would find to be arrogant.

No we can never know what another goes through nor how they feel about it or react as a result because everyone's situation is unique as is there response.  No one person knows what I've dealt with or am dealing with and certainly not how I feel inside as a result.  To most I'm a pillar of strength and have it all together and have accomplished what they wouldn't dare but in reality I'm nothing more than a vulnerable scared person who cannot stand being alone - never could but have to keep pushing forward when I'd rather just hide somewhere.  I'd rather have a heart of stone than one that feels and cries.  (Even now I'm crying and I don't like it).    I gave up on the "little girl" fantasy of the "knight in shining armour that would sweep me off my feet and slay all the dragons".  There is no "prince charming" and I'm not even sure there's a "prince charming wannabe" either but if I give up that dream entirely then what do I have to look forward to other than "dudly do nada special" and then I will really despair and plain give up or give in to my humaness and focus on today and not tomorrow.

This life may be temporary but does it have to be filled with unhappiness?  Yes paradise awaits us if we are permitted in but once there we won't remember the unhappiness we left behind.  All I know is I want a bit of happiness and a share of the life we are all supposed to have.  Is that really asking for too much?  I don't think so.  If the mean and self-centered or superficial can manage to find someone then what is so "special" about me that I can't?  Or for that matter what is so "special" about others like me that have been waiting "forever" that they can't either? 

It's impossible to put into words how miserable I am without making it seem like I'm being childish and throwing a temper tantrum because I can't have the "shiny new toy I want - now!" as I stamp my feet and hold my breath until I either get what I want or start turning blue and pass out because no one will give it to me.

I suppose if I had been born a guy instead I would hold all the cards and so wouldn't feel this level of frustration as there would be no need; but I was born as Allah decreed and so along with it comes the feelings I have including fighting to keep patient - my least favorite word and virtue along with all its variant forms.  So instead I'm out there doing what I have to do and being beat down because of it.  It's confusing and frustrating.

The hope of a promise isn't enough to sustain a person indefinitely no matter what one says.



Anonymous
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« Reply #110 on: Oct 28, 2008 08:55 PM »

Contentment [rida] with the divine decree [qada']
Anonymous
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« Reply #111 on: Oct 29, 2008 02:04 AM »

?

Then that should also apply to those brothers that reject a good sister because she doesn't possess the superficial qualities that he insists he's got to have; be content that Allah brought a good sister into his life that would actually be willing to marry him.

Anonymous
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« Reply #112 on: Oct 29, 2008 01:34 PM »

If the mean and self-centered or superficial can manage to find someone then what is so "special" about me that I can't?
Anonymous
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« Reply #113 on: Oct 29, 2008 01:47 PM »

Salam

Quote
If the mean and self-centered or superficial can manage to find someone then what is so "special" about me that I can't?

Sister you are putting too much emphasis on the concept of ideal marriage. Not everybody is in ideal situation, there are always give and take. Are you willing to marry anyone who is ok decent muslim  but doesnt do all that you are expecting him to do (e.g. bring you soup when you are sick, bring flowers for no reasons, drop everythig and listen to you etc  ) or will you leave him thinking that there might be some one better ?


Quote
I suppose if I had been born a guy instead I would hold all the cards and so wouldn't feel this level of frustration as there would be no need; but I was born ...

Have you never met any husband who has issues with his wife (e.g. not understanding his point of view, not on the same page as him on issues regarding raising children etc etc.) If you look around you will find many people, husbands and wives  making compromises. Sure everybody guy or girl dream of perfect spouse who finsihes your sentences and do all the right things right "according to you" , but is that a reality ?

Everybody either compromise or stay singel and be happy with their situation either way.
I hope and pray that you find comfort in your situation and count your blessings (good job, independence,children etc) and be thankful and happy.
 
Anonymous
Guest
« Reply #114 on: Oct 29, 2008 07:48 PM »

It's easy to use harsh words when one has never been there.
It's wrong to do I agree.
But venting is better than quietly going out and doing the wrong.
Perhaps kind words and duas would work better in this instance.

How do you know I've never been there? How do you know I'm not in the same exact situation, if not worse? How do you know these aren't the same things I tell myself over and over again so I don't reach the same despair of the sister here? Venting is fine, but reaching the point of despair and forsaking everything Allah taught us is wrong. Our duas are always there, but I can't cover up in kind words when someone is thinking wrongly.

Anonymous
Guest
« Reply #115 on: Oct 30, 2008 12:55 PM »

salam

Cheese, I dont think I or anyone on this board has ever accused you of being kind!


Wassalaam
Anonymous
Guest
« Reply #116 on: Oct 30, 2008 10:48 PM »

Salam

Quote
If the mean and self-centered or superficial can manage to find someone then what is so "special" about me that I can't?

Sister you are putting too much emphasis on the concept of ideal marriage. Not everybody is in ideal situation, there are always give and take. Are you willing to marry anyone who is ok decent muslim  but doesnt do all that you are expecting him to do (e.g. bring you soup when you are sick, bring flowers for no reasons, drop everythig and listen to you etc  ) or will you leave him thinking that there might be some one better ?

I think there's a difference between an ideal marriage and an ideal situation.  An ideal marriage is one where the couple generally gets along but also respects that they are two different people and strive to let those differences be complementary rather than combative; whereas an ideal situation is one where nothing ever goes wrong or against the plan that was worked toward (and those just don't exist). 

Am I willing to marry anyone that is a decent muslim.  Sure.  While it would be nice to have someone who would bring me soup when I'm sick or flowers for no reason (although I'd probably think there was an ulterior motive - I'd rather have the flowers planted so I can see them longer) or drops everything to listen to me I also know that very few men are that compassionate; and besides who said I'd want someone that would be around me so much that he could do all of those things; I'd feel smothered.  The issue is I can't see to even find one that is a decent Muslim; rather all I've encountered are the ones that are so superficial and so full of themselves that they reject me before getting to know anything about me.  Alternatively the other group I seem to meet are the ones that no one except their "identical twin" would want - I'm out of the "taking in the stay puppy" business.


Quote
I suppose if I had been born a guy instead I would hold all the cards and so wouldn't feel this level of frustration as there would be no need; but I was born ...

Have you never met any husband who has issues with his wife (e.g. not understanding his point of view, not on the same page as him on issues regarding raising children etc etc.) If you look around you will find many people, husbands and wives  making compromises. Sure everybody guy or girl dream of perfect spouse who finsihes your sentences and do all the right things right "according to you" , but is that a reality ?

Everybody either compromise or stay singel and be happy with their situation either way.
I hope and pray that you find comfort in your situation and count your blessings (good job, independence,children etc) and be thankful and happy.


Sure some people embrace their singleness and wouldn't ever want to change that; I don't because the single life sucks.  I'm not opposed to compromise but that doesn't mean I must make so many compromises that I lose sight of myself and my self-worth.  I don't want someone that completes my every sentence; like that would be either scary that our thought processes are that identical or I would get offended as if it means I'm a tape recorder or something and always say the same things in the same situations.

Find comfort in my situation and count my blessings.  Yes I have a good job - but that seems to be a turn-off to brothers (ego issues?); yes I have my own house - but that also seems to be a turn-off to brothers so I don't mention it anymore (again ego issues?); independence - oh no! brothers really hate that; my children - love them to pieces - yet they present a barrier to me doing what I want when I want.  So sure I'm thankful but I'm not happy because quite frankly I need a man in my life (see I burned my women's lib card and admitted it).

 

Anonymous
Guest
« Reply #117 on: Oct 30, 2008 11:38 PM »

Assalaam alaikum,

This topic has been discussed since December 2007! I think that we can now close this thread and move on to other subjects. Dwelling on this doesn't seem to be improving the situation for anyone and inshaAllah we can discuss the same things more positively in different aspects in other threads. Smiley

May Allah reward you all for your thoughts, support and discussion. jazakallahukhairan

wsalaam,
Jannah
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