// What is Witr?
    Peace be upon you,
    Welcome to Madinat Al-Muslimeen, the City of the Muslims. Please feel free to visit the different hot spots around the Madina and post any discussion, articles, suggestions, comments, art, poetry, events, recipes, etc etc. Basically anything you would like to share with your sisters and brothers!! Non-muslims are also of course quite welcome to share their comments. If this is your first time here, you need to register with the city council. Once you register you have 15 days to post your mandatory introduction and then you will be upgraded to a Madina Citizen, God Willing. Please note that our city does have regulations which are listed in the city constitution. Read them carefully before moving in. P.S. - You can also post anonymously if you wish. P.S.S. - Also be sure to check out our ARCHIVES from 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 & 2007. :)

Random Quote: The Qur'an guides you to the recognition of your illnesses and to their remedies.Your illness are your sins, and your medicine is seeking Allah's Forgiveness.  - Qatadah
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: What is Witr?  (Read 3648 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
maya
Sis
Newbie
*

Reputation Power: 0
maya has no influence :(
Gender: Female
Posts: 42



« on: Aug 26, 2011 11:07 PM »


I'm not sure what a witr prayer is..I found this :


THE WITR PRAYER

1. Witr prayer is wajib. The status of wajib is very close to that of fard. To leave out a wajib is a major sin. If a wajib is missed out, one should make qada of it as soon as possible.

2. Witr prayer comprises of three rakaats. After offering two rakaats, one should sit down and read the at-tahiyyaat. The durood should not be read. Instead, one should immediately stand up after the at-tahiyyaat. One should then read the Surah Faatihah and another Surah. Thereafter, one should say Allahu Akbar and raise one’s hands upto one’s ears (and upto the shoulders if it is a woman). The hands should be clasped again, and thereafter, the dua-e-qunoot should be recited. Thereafter, he should go into ruku, complete the third rakaat, sit down for at-tahiyyaat, durood, and a dua and then make the salaam.

 Huh? I'm feeling lost. What is witr, what is wajib..fard means neccessary right? What is qada?

Thanks OP for the post, very beautiful mashallah! Will be reading this tonight inshallah! seeing as I cannot sleep this must be a sign for Allah telling me, "DON'T SLeep!! pray!"



And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands,
akhan
Bro
Hero Member
*

Reputation Power: 107
akhan has an aura about them. :)akhan has an aura about them. :)akhan has an aura about them. :)akhan has an aura about them. :)akhan has an aura about them. :)akhan has an aura about them. :)akhan has an aura about them. :)akhan has an aura about them. :)akhan has an aura about them. :)akhan has an aura about them. :)
Gender: Male
Posts: 1706



« Reply #1 on: Aug 27, 2011 01:55 AM »

Sis maya, Wajib is something which is really really close to Fard, i.e almost Fard - if you've done pre calculus, in limits, there's a concept where a variable tends to something, say zero. It's not exactly zero but so near to zero that for the sake of calculation we take it to be zero. Wajib is that close to Fard  Grin

The Prophet(S) never missed Witr and it is recommended that Witr be the last prayer of the night. People usually pray Witr right after Isha because they're not sure if they can get up to pray before Fajr, which is permissible but suppose you pray Witr after Isha and get up to pray Tahajjud, you don't have to do Witr again because there's a Hadith which says that there cannot be two Witrs in one night.

How to pray Witr?
Witr, is to be prayed in odd rakahs. The Prophet(S) prayed 8 rakahs of Tahajjud/Qiyamul Layl/or whatever you wanna call it, and then prayed 3 rakahs of Witr. But, you can pray as many as you want provided that it's an odd number, 3 is the Sunnah.
The method that you found is one that is practised in subcontinent which is not the right way to do. There's a Hadith which prohibits Witr to be prayed like Maghrib.
First, you pray two rakahs(and another 2 and another 2 and so on, if you wanna do more than 3 in all)and say the tasleem. Next, you get up and pray another single rakah in which you raise your hands and make Du'a after rising from the Ruku and before going into Sujood. After the Sujood, it's the usual, At-Tahiyyat then Durood and Tasleem. Another way is to do all 3(or any other odd number you wish to do) in a row without sitting except for in the last rakah. Both methods are acceptable but the Sunnah is 2+1.
Allahu 'Alam
jannah
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Reputation Power: 277
jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!
Gender: Female
Posts: 7133


I heart the Madina


WWW
« Reply #2 on: Aug 27, 2011 11:19 AM »

wsalam maya,

"witr" and "wajib" are defined differently depending on madhabs (schools of thought).

it seems like you have a lot of fiqh type questions about various things. this might be a good time to direct you to your local mosque where you can learn from a good imam or teacher on these things. there are going to be a lot of things in islam where there is more than one opinion based on interpretation and difference of opinion/school of thought and the internet is not a good place to get these answers.
Abu Khaled
Bro
Newbie
*

Reputation Power: 11
Abu Khaled has no influence :(
Gender: Male
Posts: 37


« Reply #3 on: Aug 27, 2011 03:32 PM »

Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem

Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullah, and a Belated Ramadhan mubarak to you all.

Sister Jannah's advice is sound, people should know their limits and not talk without knowledge. The method of Witr you found Sister Maya is not wrong, it is the method prayed according to the Hanafi madhhab, so it is misleading to reduce it to a subcontinent phenomenon. You could travel to Syria and observe the Hanafis there, Turkey, South Africa, or any number of places worldwide, and you'd observe them praying it the same way. Rest assured it is not wrong. You can - if you wanted to - consult any number of basic reference works, including Mukhtasar al-Qudduri, Nur al-Idah, Maraqi 'l-Sa'adat to verify this, each of these 3 basic texts are also available in english translation. These texts have been taught for centuries the world over.

There are slight differences in how this prayer is done, depending on which opinion one is following. The key thing is that one is following an established opinion within the framework of rightly-guided fiqh.

This - as Sister Jannah has rightly pointed out - is a question of fiqh, so be sure to ask a Faqih, not a Muhaddith. Because you need an answer from within the framework of fiqh, not hadith. Merely alluding to a "hadith" to support, or undermine, a position, is not fiqh, it is recklessness, because hadith is but one possible element in the process of establishing a ruling in fiqh. Show me someone who thinks that a single hadith in isolation is all that is required to debunk a relied-upon position in a madhhab, which is found in all the basic texts that are used to teach salat in that madhhab, and I'll show you someone who hasn't studied enough to be opining on the issue.

The ruling of Witr varies according to the madhhahib, as does the modus operandi of the actual Witr prayer itself. The Du'a Qunut varies slightly according to the different madhhahib, but these are all taken from established riwayat [transmissions] of that du'a within those schools.

In the Hanafi madhhab, the distinction between fard and wajib relates to the strength of evidence, but in terms of praxis the consequence is the same: there is sin attached to the omission of the act.

Please be sure to heed the wise words of Sister Jannah, as this is Deen, and we have been advised to take our Deen from those with the relevant authority/qualifications.

Wallahu ta'ala a'lam.

Abu Khaled
jannah
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Reputation Power: 277
jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!
Gender: Female
Posts: 7133


I heart the Madina


WWW
« Reply #4 on: Aug 27, 2011 06:10 PM »

wsalam,

br abukhaled ramadan mubarak...maybe we should say "annual sighting mubarak" Smiley jazaks for your input!!

ps i'm comin to visit ur great land (despite riots!  karate) in fall/winter sometime, any recommendations for mosques and things to visit?
maya
Sis
Newbie
*

Reputation Power: 0
maya has no influence :(
Gender: Female
Posts: 42



« Reply #5 on: Aug 27, 2011 09:36 PM »

Walaykum Salam,

Jazaaks for your input...Not that I can do too much with it at this point. I'm just getting into the habit of regular salah again, I guess I was never the best muslim before  Undecided We are working MUCH harder this time.
However, still much I don't know, mainly with vocab and terminology that is the hardest on me. I know how to pray, I just don't know all the diff. parts of the prayer, the names of each diff. part...if that makes sense. Having memorized it in Arabic, its all one flowy thing, the only parts I know are what makes a 2,3 and 4 rakat prayer.
So, it's often overwhelming to google the below while being distracted by still not quite understanding the answer to my questions all the time...I feel very slow:
things Im unsure of, for i.e.
-Faqih
-Muhaddit
-madhhahib
-fiqh
...

I will go to my mosque, I'd feel uncomfortable asking a man. But, I'll ask a woman to explain these things to me and perhaps enquire to see what types of education programs they have for reverts.


And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands,
Abu Khaled
Bro
Newbie
*

Reputation Power: 11
Abu Khaled has no influence :(
Gender: Male
Posts: 37


« Reply #6 on: Aug 28, 2011 10:32 AM »

Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem

Dear Sister Maya,

Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullah.

I read a few of your other posts and understand you've recently "reverted." May Allah ta'ala grant you a firm footing in your practice, anchor you with a sound comprehension, and assist you in all your endeavours.

My apologies to you for using terminology unfamiliar to you, I should have translated/explained that, sorry. To be honest, I wouldn't fret about this too much right now. When Allah ta'ala opens a door for you to know Him then it is because He desires for you to know Him, subhanahu wa ta'ala. Never forget that as you go about the business of learning your Deen. Too many of us do, and we get waylaid by focussing on learning, rather than the endgoal, which is reaching Him, subhanahu wa ta'ala. I'm not saying terminology, vocabulary, the names for all the different parts of the prayer, etc., are not important, but that they're not what is primary for you at this moment in time. What is primary is actualising your practice (e.g. your prayer) such that it is acceptable to Allah ta'ala. Imbuing it with that ikhlas [sincerity] and soul that makes it purposeful and meaningful, rather than it merely being an outward routine one engages in, with no spiritual commune or connection between oneself and one's Lord, subhanahu wa ta'ala.

It's kind of like a surgeon operating on someone. The key aim is to try and improve that person's condition, perhaps even save their life. Yes, the surgeon needs to know what s/he is doing, and have the right equipment, be sterilised, etc., but none of that is more important than the purpose behind the surgery, right?

It matters not that you don't know much Sister Maya, what matters is that the little you do know, you know it well, you act upon it with sincerity [ikhlas] and excellence [ihsan], and that it takes you towards Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. Remember, it was the tortoise who eventually won the race.

As I said above, I wouldn't beat yourself up about not knowing vocabulary/terminology, because these things come with time. They are but aids in refining one's understanding, so don't let your desire to learn them overburden you. You certainly needn't feel slow, because remember, you are where Allah ta'ala wants you to be right now. Nowhere else. So be content with that, and just proceed with your small steps, as the destination is not going anywhere, and the journey is such that your steps need to be firm, not unsteady.

Be wary of approaching random people about your Deen, for whilst there may be many well-meaning folk, there are equally as many who are unlearned. And unfortunately you find - in these days of information gratification at the click of a mouse - people who have a false sense of their own "knowledge" just because they've read this article or that article on the web. That is not the way one learns Islam, so such "learning" needs to be contextualised. What they possess is often just information, not true learning. True learning comes from - ideally - sitting at the feet of Rightly-Guided Ulema [Scholars], as they are the true heirs of our Elect Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wassalam. The difficulty is that for someone who is new in their learning, anyone else who seems to know more than them, can be perceived to be knowledgeable in the Deen, which is often not the case. One way of identifying someone who has sound Islamic knowledge is to observe how cautious they are in what they say. That is reflective of taqwa [God-consciousness], for the more one learns, the more careful one is with what they allow themselves to say/write. Because they realise that them being allowed 'ilm [knowledge] of this Deen is by the grace and bounty of their Lord - subhanahu wa ta'ala - not through their own efforts. So that humility and respect towards the Sacred Knowledge is manifested in their deference towards it. They will hesitate before saying something is wrong, and they will show restraint before saying something is right. It is related - on the authority of our teachers, may Allah ta'ala preserve and prolong them all - that once a man asked Imam ash-Shafi'i - radhi'Allahu 'anh - a question, and the Imam didn't answer. The man then pressed for the answer, and the Imam is related to have replied, "Not till I know what is best for my hereafter, to answer or to remain silent."

This is the embodiment of the kind of taqwa I am alluding to. We're not just talking about any ordinary scholar here. Imam ash-Shafi'i - radhi'Allahu 'anh - is recognised and accepted as one of the most exceptional, gifted and brilliant scholars ever to have walked the earth. He was one of a handful of scholars in Islamic history who was capable of deriving a ruling on absolutely any subject in Islamic Law, the highest degree of scholarship one can attain to in the field of Islamic Law (see below). He - radhi'Allahu 'anh - was, and remains, peerless. Yet, such a one, manifested the above degree of caution. So what then of the rest of us?

If you're uncomfortable approaching a male Imam in a mosque/centre - which I can completely understand, though he may be able to redirect you to some Sisters you could seek help from - you could do worse than access this resource, for example:

http://islamicvillage.podomatic.com/

If you scroll down you'll see pre-recorded classes on basic aspects of purification and prayer, taught by a qualified and able scholar - may Allah ta'ala preserve him - with a reliable background in the Sacred Sciences. As someone who is newly practicing, you need to know what is individually obligatory on you, namely, learning your basic 'aqida [belief], basic fiqh [law] around what is personally obligatory on you (e.g. tajweed (proper pronunciation of the Qur'an for your prayer), prayer and that which relates to it, such as purification; fasting, zakat, etc.), and purification of the heart (kind of like the inner fiqh - see below for explanation of this term fiqh - if you like).

These things should ideally be pursued through a structured program of learning, step by step.

The above resource I directed you to could be an easy (free) alternative, if you are unable to attend offline classes, or there aren't the relevant resources to do so nearby, or at times that suit.

As an aside, and for, shall we say, dessert, I would definitely recommend the Sira [Life of the Beloved Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wassalam] classes on that site, because they will, simply put, blow you away. They are just sublime, the teacher - Sidi Ibrahim, may Allah ta'ala preserve him - is exceptional, and brilliant at lifting the subject off the page and enlivening it. Particularly with nuanced insights that are rare and awe-inspiring. Such a class will fill your heart with (even more) love and awe for our Beloved Prophet - sallallahu alayhi wassalam - and his Ennobled Companions, radhi'Allahu anhum ajmaeen. And this is important, for without him - sallallahu alayhi wassalam - being the centrepoint and anchor of our Deen, we will never be able to journey to, much less reach, Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. Hence why sending regular praise upon the Prophet - sallallahu alayhi wassalam - should become a part of one's life, and we should seek to keep our tongues moist with this dhikr [remembrance].

Those Sira classes can be listened to at leisure, even as a family thing, they're reaaally nice to get together around.

So, coming back to some of these terms I mentioned, and I apologise once again if my use of them confused you. I will try to keep it simple:

Fiqh: Technically, it refers to the subject of Islamic Law (aka: jurisprudence).

When we talk about learning about prayer, fasting, zakat, hajj, etc., all of these types of classes come under the domain of fiqh, which relates to the rules that govern our actions. The do's and don'ts, and how-to-do's.

Faqih: A scholar in fiqh. Usually someone who is trained in the science of fiqh to a very very advanced level.

In reality you will probably be hard pressed to find a true faqih, you're more likely to find an Imam of a mosque or a Mufti [someone who can issue legal rulings regarding specific issues - e.g. you have a medical condition whereby fasting prevents you from taking medicines, without which your health will deteriorate, what is the ruling on fasting then? Do you make those fasts up later?].

Muhaddith: A scholar of hadith. Someone who is trained to a high degree in the Sciences of Hadith, and is qualifed/authorised to narrate hadith.

Again, quite rare to find such scholars, especially in Western lands. You'll more likely find 'Alims [someone who has formally learned 'ilm [Sacred Knowledge], to the extent that they can be considered learned, to a degree that they are entitled to this title of 'Alim]. An 'Alim, in practice, is often someone who has studied a range of standard Islamic subjects to an intermediate level, within an established Islamic curriculum, and been issued with an authorisation to transmit what they've learned. 'Alim is an umbrella term, under which you could include the Imam of a Mosque (assuming they had a level of learning that considered them an 'Alim, which not all Imams do, as their function is often only to lead prayer, not to teach the Deen as well), a Mufti, a Faqih, a Muhaddith, etc.

In other words, not all 'Alims are on the same level of learning.  

Madhhahib: Schools of Islamic Law. Plural of madhhab [a single school of Islamic Law]. When we talk about faqihs [in arabic the plural is fuqaha], you generally find they specialise in one madhhab. The more advanced fuqaha may specialise in more than one, or indeed, all of them. There is a degree beyond this, but that's another discussion for another time.

I hope this has helped somewhat, rather than confused you more!

Wallahu ta'ala a'lam.

Please make du'a for this wretch, especially in this most blessed of months, Ramadhan.

Abu Khaled

PS: Sister Jannah, I'd recommend visiting the airport, and getting right back on that plane after arriving. Don't want you causing no havoc.

I'm joking!

Holler at me and I'll recommend you some lovely desi mosques where you'll have a cupboard all to yourself. Directly above the men's wudu area, so you can play the guess-that-noise game whilst waiting for the iqama.

What is "jazaks"?? Next you'll be on your tasbih, going "b-small", "subhan", "astagh," etc...

You're so street...
jannah
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Reputation Power: 277
jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!
Gender: Female
Posts: 7133


I heart the Madina


WWW
« Reply #7 on: Aug 28, 2011 07:47 PM »

wsalam,

what an important post for all of us to read about on seeking knowledge!!

i forgot how abu khaled could make us all cry, for writing so beautifully, and for slicing us (usually me) with his knife of sarcasm  :'( ouch bleeding now. (:p)

jazakAllahu khairan.

Abu Khaled
Bro
Newbie
*

Reputation Power: 11
Abu Khaled has no influence :(
Gender: Male
Posts: 37


« Reply #8 on: Aug 28, 2011 10:43 PM »

Dear Sister Jannah,

Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullah.

I read the thread about "reps" earlier. When I posted the above posts, my reps were 4. They are now 96! How does that work then, in terms of the story it tells? It's a little skewed, no? Because to someone else, it'd look as if for my 12 posts, I have an average of 8 reps. When in reality, I had 4 reps for 10 posts, and it is the above 2 that has increased it by 92!

So what is the true value of these reps?

Just tryna understand these technologificationalisms you keep implementing. Jannah Zuckerberg? That just sounds sooo right (plus it has the cool abbreviation of JZ, aiiite)...

Abu Khaled
Halima
Sis
Hero Member
*

Reputation Power: 39
Halima is working their way up :)Halima is working their way up :)Halima is working their way up :)
Gender: Female
Posts: 1714



« Reply #9 on: Aug 29, 2011 12:01 AM »

wsalam,
what an important post for all of us to read about on seeking knowledge!!
I echo that! The link is great. Shukran Jaziran brother Abu Khaled.

I read the thread about "reps" earlier. When I posted the above posts, my reps were 4. They are now 96! How does that work then, in terms of the story it tells? It's a little skewed, no? Because to someone else, it'd look as if for my 12 posts, I have an average of 8 reps. When in reality, I had 4 reps for 10 posts, and it is the above 2 that has increased it by 92!

So what is the true value of these reps?
I never bothered about the reps things before but I just gave you one for the above post because it is really informative, constructive and gainful - I am learning from it! See, its not only maya who gains. May Allah SWT bless and reward you, Ameen.

Quote
Just tryna understand these technologificationalisms you keep implementing. Jannah Zuckerberg? That just sounds sooo right (plus it has the cool abbreviation of JZ, aiiite)...

Wow! JZ!

The Almighty Allah says,

"When a servant thinks of Me, I am near.
When he invokes Me, I am with him.
If he reflects on Me in secret, I reply in secret,
And if he acknowledges Me in an assembly,
I acknowledge him in a far superior assembly."

- Prophet Muhammad (SAW), as reptd by Abu Huraira
jannah
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Reputation Power: 277
jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!
Gender: Female
Posts: 7133


I heart the Madina


WWW
« Reply #10 on: Aug 29, 2011 05:10 AM »

walaikum salaam warahmatullah wabarakatuhu,

When we started this new board we gave everyone 10 reps per year they've been a member of the Madina. So I just added your 90 for the last 9 years. Not sure where the other 2 n more came from!

As to the true street value of reps... Some say it is worth a lot  thanku , some say nothing idunno, some say worth cadbury chocolate bars from south africa  woohoo wa kaana ikhtilaf baynal ulema fee madinatal jannah.org wa Allahu alam.  oldshaykh

ws
Abu Khaled
Bro
Newbie
*

Reputation Power: 11
Abu Khaled has no influence :(
Gender: Male
Posts: 37


« Reply #11 on: Aug 29, 2011 05:39 AM »

Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullah,

Riiiight. Thanks. There was me thinking I was being shown massive love. Now you tell me you just credited me 90 reps for being a member for so long.

Talk about being slapped down to earth. Wish I hadn't asked now! Ignorance was bliss...

Sister Halima, thank you for your kind words, and the positive rep based on *cough, Sister Jannah, take note* merit. Here are a couple of lovely little Ramadhan treats for you by way of thanks:

Prophet Muhammad & Children - Shaykh Ibrahim Osi Efa

The Blessed 'Madness' of the Blessed Sahaba - Shaykh Ibrahim Osi-Efa


(You're not allowed to click on them DenMother. Hmph.)

Abu Khaled
jannah
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Reputation Power: 277
jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!
Gender: Female
Posts: 7133


I heart the Madina


WWW
« Reply #12 on: Aug 29, 2011 09:28 AM »

Ouchhhhhhh demoted from the cool 'JZ' back to the horrid 'denmother'  smack

bruv u should count ur blessings... u have 14 posts for the last 3 years and 4 for the 2 years before that. we should be giving you negative reps for not posting more often!!  beat what happened to the days of writing enigmatic intros that told us nothing, long posts full of british spellings like colour and doughnut and mass confusion over whether you and brkhalid were really the same person.

ahhh the good 'ole days...
Abu Khaled
Bro
Newbie
*

Reputation Power: 11
Abu Khaled has no influence :(
Gender: Male
Posts: 37


« Reply #13 on: Aug 29, 2011 10:22 AM »

Good job I documented my 98 positive reps then!

Negative reps??!! I mean, what kind of sick, twisted, demented mind could even conjure up such...

Oh yeah... Nevermind...

Notice how BrK-dawg is strangely absent when I'm posting...?

Probably still in that Mauritian Monastery. Don't know why, but the name always makes me think of a Friar. *chuckle*
BrKhalid
Bro
Hero Member
*

Reputation Power: 27
BrKhalid barely matters :(BrKhalid barely matters :(
Gender: Male
Posts: 1352



« Reply #14 on: Aug 29, 2011 11:06 AM »

Asalaamu Alaikum  bro


Quote
Notice how BrK-dawg is strangely absent when I'm posting..


Very spooky!!  bro


Perhaps people should ask All I want for Eid is to see AbuK and BrK in the same room at the same time Wink

Say: "O ye my servants who believe! Fear your Lord, good is (the reward) for those who do good in this world. Spacious is God's earth! those who patiently persevere will truly receive a reward without measure!" [39:10]
Abu Khaled
Bro
Newbie
*

Reputation Power: 11
Abu Khaled has no influence :(
Gender: Male
Posts: 37


« Reply #15 on: Aug 29, 2011 11:10 AM »

Wa-alaikum assalam wa rahmatullah shaykh.

Talk about ruining an illusion.

Here, have some real-life spookiness:

http://jannah.org/madina/index.php?topic=5877.msg29039;topicseen#new

Abu Khaled
Cinders
Sis
Sr. Member
*

Reputation Power: 25
Cinders barely matters :(Cinders barely matters :(
Gender: Female
Posts: 397



« Reply #16 on: Aug 29, 2011 11:15 AM »

Assalamu Alaiykum,

Br Abu Khaled never come across you here on the board... But you are so funny! I just wanted you to know that!

Ma'Salam,

Cinders

وَلَسَوْفَ يُعْطِيكَ رَبُّكَ فَتَرْضَىٰ

And soon will your Lord give you so that you shall be well pleased.
Al Qur'an (93:5)
Abu Khaled
Bro
Newbie
*

Reputation Power: 11
Abu Khaled has no influence :(
Gender: Male
Posts: 37


« Reply #17 on: Aug 29, 2011 11:29 AM »

Dear Sister Cinders,

Wa-alaikum assalam wa rahmatullah.

Yeah, I'm kinda new round these ways. Juust finding my feet.

Tell Sister Jannah to be gentle with me.

I thought of saying that just after I wanted to give a shout out to the Ugly Sisters (as in: Cinders - Cinderella - Ugly Sisters; see what I did there...). But then I realised it might get misconstrued. Cuz, like, if you mention someone after thinking something else, and then you make a link between the thing thought and that someone, such as the mention of them following the thing thought, they might wrongly conclude you're referring to them. But that's when coincidence comes into play. Best course of action, I reckon, is to not dwell on it, as that'd just reinforce the link.

(Whaddya mean that's highly inappropriate?! It's not my fault you decided to choose a name for yourself on the board after a fairy story. The mind has a natural tendency to join dots. You are totally responsible for any negative reps I may now get.)

I reeaally need to stop getting myself into trouble.

Abu Khaled
Cinders
Sis
Sr. Member
*

Reputation Power: 25
Cinders barely matters :(Cinders barely matters :(
Gender: Female
Posts: 397



« Reply #18 on: Aug 29, 2011 11:36 AM »

 Cheesy...  Cheesy...  Cheesy

You are by no means 'new'! If you've been around here for 9 years! Anyway, the dry British humour... Love it! Oh the sarcasm...

On a side note, our English is the correct English. Although we do drive on the wrong side of the road!

Ma'Salam,

Cinders

Ps, bro I think you should post a diary.. I can imagine it'd be a fab read!
Pps, also your comments on 'Witr' very much welcome in my humble opinion. Jazakallah!

وَلَسَوْفَ يُعْطِيكَ رَبُّكَ فَتَرْضَىٰ

And soon will your Lord give you so that you shall be well pleased.
Al Qur'an (93:5)
Hard2Hit
Bro
Hero Member
*

Reputation Power: 15
Hard2Hit has no influence :(
Gender: Male
Posts: 632


Taubah


WWW
« Reply #19 on: Aug 29, 2011 12:35 PM »

A.A.

Good read on Witr. Bit I liked the most was going to a Faqih for Fiqh related things, and not to a Muhaddith... I need to read up more on that.

As for the reps, i've been visiting this forum for more than 12 years now. I demand my 120 freebie rep starter kit NOW!

Negative reps??!! I mean, what kind of sick, twisted, demented mind could even conjure up such...


Madinite's are lovely people, they launch neg rep attacks against those fellow madinan's who they find way too kewl Wink

The knight doesn't wait when he's ill or has cancer brother, the knight fights on... He finds a strategy, changes tactics, and hits hard.
Abu Khaled
Bro
Newbie
*

Reputation Power: 11
Abu Khaled has no influence :(
Gender: Male
Posts: 37


« Reply #20 on: Aug 29, 2011 02:39 PM »

Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem

Wa-alaikum assalam wa rahmatullah.

About turning to a faqih for fiqh and a muhaddith for hadith, this can be best understood by understanding the interplay of the two disciplines. The discussion of which, in relation to what you're seeking to read up more on, is treated in the science of Usul al-Fiqh [the methodology/principles/bases of fiqh]. Usul al-fiqh is that subject which helps one understand how fiqh is derived, and what the place/role of hadith is in that process. In this context, when we refer to hadith we technically mean a specific transmitted evidence which forms part of the Sunnah. The Sunnah, in this sense, is one of the sources of fiqh, of which there are circa eleven (some agreed upon, some disagreed upon). Yet many Muslims - for reasons we need not delve into here - have this myopic notion that fiqh is only about Qur'an and Sunnah. It isn't, and such a notion is way too simplistic to do justice to the rich, profound fiqhi legacy our tradition has amassed.

Take for example, Sahih al-Bukhari (which is not even the proper name for this esteemed work). In the classical era, this was a work which a Talib al-'Ilm [Student of the Sacred Knowledge] would tend to study at the culmination of his/her studies. It is an extremely technical work, the study of which requires one to be proficient in a whole host of other disciplines, for their study of this text to stand any chance of being worthwhile.

Yet nowadays, not only can any Joe Muslim walk into a random bookshop and buy Sahih al-Bukhari, or a translation of, they can just type in some keywords into a searchable database, or CD-Rom, and pluck the various ahadith out from the search results.

What too many of us fail to realise however, is the crucial distinction between the intended meaning of a hadith, and the supposed meaning we take away when we read it with our untrained eyes. Too many times the two are not the same, because merely reading a hadith isn't the same as formally studying it.

Following is an article which highlights some of the dangers of this approach (the article isn't necessarily focussing on examples from Sahih al-Bukhari, rather, from hadith in general):

http://www.dewdropsweb.com/talaqqi/ - it is the examples in Section 4 which are what I wish to draw your attention to

Let us illustrate this phenomenon with an actual example. But in order to get the best utility from this exercise, I need you - or anyone else who wants to participate - to not refer to any other resources whatsoever, on- or offline. No using dictionaries, commentaries, or anything at all. All I want you to do is read the hadith below, and based only on that, try to derive as many possible lessons/benefits from it as your personal reading/understanding/interpetation of it allows. I stress, this is just a teaching exercise, we're not actually formally studying the hadith, I am neither a scholar nor a student. I am merely trying to make a point, and insha'Allah the lesson will reveal itself as we proceed.

Incidentally, this exercise isn't about fiqh, we're just looking at what a layman can take from hadith without the guiding hand of a qualified scholar. The hadith, which I'm not claiming to have isnad [a chain of transmission] to, nor the authority to narrate - lets just suppose we're just in a cyber-classroom setting - is being used by way of example. I'd like to state that it is not my practice to cite ahadith that I am not authorised to narrate/quote, and am only doing so for the purpose of this exercise. I'll cite my source once we finish the exercise. We'll conveniently overlook the fact that we're working with a translation rather than the actual original arabic of the narration. Hopefully the desired lesson can still be learnt.

I've selected an example that maybe we can relate to, whilst fasting in this blessed month of Ramadhan, taken from the Kitab al-Raqa'iq [Section on 'Words that Soften the Heart'].

Please, when reading the translation of the hadith and encountering the names of Sahaba - radhi'Allahu anhum ajmaeen - or a pronoun referring to them, remember to quietly invoke a benediction for them after their names, to maintain adab, as those benedictions are not mentioned in the translation. It goes without saying that by greater reason, the same applies for any mention of our Beloved Messenger, sallallahu alayhi wassalam:

(Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem)

===

'Umar ibn Dharr < Mujahid, that Abu Hurayra used to say: 'Allah! He besides Whom there is no other god! I used to press my liver to the ground out of hunger, and used to bind a stone against my stomach out of hunger. One day when I was sitting in their roadway, near their exiting-place, Abu Bakr passed by. I asked him about a verse in the Book of Allah, my only reason for asking him being that he might give me something to take away my hunger. He went on, however, without doing so. Then 'Umar passed me by, and I asked him about a verse in the Book of Allah, my only reason for asking him again being that he might give me something to remove my hunger. He went on, however, without doing so. Then Abu'l-Qasim - sallallahu alayhi wassalam - passed by. When he saw me he smiled, and knew what was in my soul and on my face. Then he said: "Abu Hirr!" and I replied: "At your service, Messenger of God!" and he said: "Join me!" So I followed him as he passed on his way, and he entered [his house]. When I asked leave to enter, he admitted me, and we went in; whereupon he found some milk in a cup. "Where is this milk from?" he enquired, and they told him, "Such-and-such a man, or such-and-such a woman, gave it to you." He said, "Abu Hirr!" and I replied, "At your service, Messenger of God!" He told me, "Go to the People of the Veranda [Ahl al-Suffa], and call them to me." The People of the Veranda were the guests of Islam, having refuge in no family, wealth or any person. When a donation of of charity [sadaqa] came to him, he would send it to them and take none of it himself. When a gift [hadiyya] came to him, however, he would send for them, partake in it himself, and share it with them. This troubled me, and I asked what might remain of this milk after it had been distributed among the People of the Veranda, when my own need to drink from it and thus regain my strength was more urgent. But he had given me a command, and it was my responsibility to give it to them. What could remain to me of that milk? Because there is no alternative to obeying God and His Messenger (sallallahu alayhi wassalam), however, I went to invite them, whereupon they came, asking permission to enter, which was granted them, and they took their seats around the house. He said: "Abu Hirr!" to which I replied, 'At your service, O Messenger of God!" and he told me to take it and give it to them. So I picked it up and began to pass it around them. One man would drink until his thirst was quenched, after which he would return the cup to me so that I might pass it to the next man, who also drank until he was quenched, until finally, with everyone satisfied, it reached the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wassalam), who took it, placed it upon his hand, smiled at me, and then said: "Abu Hirr!" I replied, "At your service, Messenger of God!" and he said: "You and I remain." "That is true." I said, and he told me to sit and drink. I did so, but he told me again to drink, and I drank again, but he continued to tell me to drink until I said: "No, by the One Who sent you with the truth, I can drink no more." At this he said: "Show it to me," and I gave him the cup. Praising God, he said, "In the name of God," and drank what remained.

===

I know, it is a beautiful hadith, Allah humma salli wa sallim wa barik alayh!

So, now, let's begin our little exercise, anybody can join in. Let's see how many lessons/benefits you can draw from reading that. Write down the number you come up with. Try not to force a contrived lesson/benefit, the point is you derive that which seems apparent to you. However, if there are things you draw from beneath the surface, that is fine too, though it may be useful to mention how many of the lessons/benefits that you eventually derive, were obvious to you, and how many required a little more reading between the lines.

When we've finished this exercise, I will remind you that this is but one element in the process of deriving Islamic Law. Just one.

By the way, the point of this isn't to humiliate anyone, so please don't withhold from participating out of fear of being embarrassed, for that absolutely isn't my intention. We're all Brothers/Sisters here, and we each - insha'Allah - want the best for one another. This is just a teaching technique I have found quite effective. The benefit to you, if you take part, is that you're more likely to remember it for the benefit of others too, as it will become something you actually experienced.

(I so hope this doesn't backfire! Rest assured though, if I have to eat humble pie thanks to one of you brights sparks, I'll do so after the fast has broken!)

Please make du'a for this wretch.

Abu Khaled
Halima
Sis
Hero Member
*

Reputation Power: 39
Halima is working their way up :)Halima is working their way up :)Halima is working their way up :)
Gender: Female
Posts: 1714



« Reply #21 on: Aug 29, 2011 07:04 PM »

First, there is no bigger ‘layman’ here than me - that is a certainty. Second, I don’t care about being embarrassed if it means I can learn from this so that I can decipher hadith from now on instead of taking it at face value. So here goes…

Note: I have not cheated – didn’t reference any book or the net. Below are basically my layman’s understanding, thoughts and questions. Hoping to learn!


My perspective
11

A few questions:
1.   The beginning is a little confusing for layman me - was Umar Ibn Dharr a Mujahid and was he the one
      narrating the hadith about Abu Harayra (RA) as narrated to him by Abu Hurarya (RA)?
2.   Is Abu Hiri short for Abu Hurarya (RA)?
3.   Why didn’t Abu Bakr (RA) and Umar (RA) answer the question and just passed him by?

The Almighty Allah says,

"When a servant thinks of Me, I am near.
When he invokes Me, I am with him.
If he reflects on Me in secret, I reply in secret,
And if he acknowledges Me in an assembly,
I acknowledge him in a far superior assembly."

- Prophet Muhammad (SAW), as reptd by Abu Huraira
jannah
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Reputation Power: 277
jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!jannah is awe-inspiring mA!
Gender: Female
Posts: 7133


I heart the Madina


WWW
« Reply #22 on: Aug 29, 2011 07:09 PM »

walaikum salaam warahmatullah wabarakatuhu,


i thought of 6

Abu Khaled
Bro
Newbie
*

Reputation Power: 11
Abu Khaled has no influence :(
Gender: Male
Posts: 37


« Reply #23 on: Aug 29, 2011 07:25 PM »

Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullah!

Fabulous, both of you, really top efforts, thank you for entering into the spirit of this! I'm double-minded whether to ask you to edit your posts to retain only the number of lessons you derived, and remove the actual detail of the lessons you've drawn, only to stop others from unfairly benefitting from your hard work! Because the point of this exercise is exactly that, that we each rely on what is evident to us from our cursory readings of the narration. But if other people see what you've written, it might give them ideas!

What do you think? Is it better if, for now, you only write the number of lessons you derived, rather than the actual lessons themselves?

Sister Halima, I don't think it would detract from the purpose of the exercise if I answered your first 2 questions, though if you indulge me, I'm going to withhold on answering the 3rd for now.

So, concerning (1), apologies, Sayyiduna 'Umar ibn Dharr - radhi'Allahu 'anh - was narrating from Sayyiduna Mujahid - radhi'Allahu 'anh - that Sayyiduna Abu Hurayra - radhi'Allahhu 'anh - used to say...

Concerning (2), Abu Hirr is a form of his name - radhi'Allahu 'anh - since his kunya [agnomen] was originally Abu Hurayra.

Any other takers? Come forth, come forth!

Abu Khaled
Halima
Sis
Hero Member
*

Reputation Power: 39
Halima is working their way up :)Halima is working their way up :)Halima is working their way up :)
Gender: Female
Posts: 1714



« Reply #24 on: Aug 29, 2011 07:50 PM »

Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullah!

Fabulous, both of you, really top efforts, thank you for entering into the spirit of this! I'm double-minded whether to ask you to edit your posts to retain only the number of lessons you derived, and remove the actual detail of the lessons you've drawn, only to stop others from unfairly benefitting from your hard work! Because the point of this exercise is exactly that, that we each rely on what is evident to us from our cursory readings of the narration. But if other people see what you've written, it might give them ideas!

What do you think? Is it better if, for now, you only write the number of lessons you derived, rather than the actual lessons themselves?
Done! Will put them back when you when you say so.

Thank you for answering questions 1 and 2. Makes it clearer now.

The Almighty Allah says,

"When a servant thinks of Me, I am near.
When he invokes Me, I am with him.
If he reflects on Me in secret, I reply in secret,
And if he acknowledges Me in an assembly,
I acknowledge him in a far superior assembly."

- Prophet Muhammad (SAW), as reptd by Abu Huraira
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to: