// Questions on marrriage?
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« on: Sep 14, 2011 08:40 AM »


Assalamualaikum!

I am new to this forum, but I am loving everything that I am reading. I need some help and advice from everyone if I can get it. My parents have started looking for a husband for me, and they are looking very hard. My views on marriage are very different from theirs, I have no real interest on how many degrees a guy has or how elite his parents are, how well known/respectable the family is. I agree its all important to a certain extent, but I am more interested in: are they a good person? a good muslim? kind? compassionate? someone who can be a best friend in good times and bad? I have tried explaining all this to  my mother numerous times but she says I am naive and I dont understand life just yet (Im 24 by the way).

My question is this: How do I islamically convince my mother of the qualities I am looking for in a prospective groom they will pick.


Secondly, my parents are choosing between 2 guys at the moment.
1. well educated, good family, well known, respectable. my parents have had constant positive communication with them, they respond to emails and phone calls immediately, I have spoken to the mother and she seems quite wonderful.

2. educated, not as well as the first, good, well known respectabe family. my parents have emailed and called a few times, but both the boy and the boys family take over 10 days to reply emails or text messages. However, each reply is positive and promising but they never seem to fulfill their promises to supply information or call back when they say they will. I have not spoken to anyone in this family.

My second question is this:

I know the obvious answer is to keep pursuing the first prospective, but something in my heart cannot let me forget the second (perhaps it is because he was the first prospective husband my parents discussed with me?) because somehow I feel that I would have a simpler, more happy, friendly life with this person (although I dont really have a real basis to think this). How can I Islmaically make a good decision?

This post submitted using the ANONYMOUS button on the main Madina menu. Please reply here publicly so that the original poster can read any replies.
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« Reply #1 on: Sep 14, 2011 09:27 AM »

TELL YOUR PARENTS TO FEAR ALLAH!
It is NOT allowed for a Muslim woman to consider two suitors at the same time.
They need to reject the first before they can consider the second.
Tell them to do salat ul towba and you do it to. A harram start is no way to start a marriage.


Fozia
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« Reply #2 on: Sep 14, 2011 10:33 AM »

salam


I'd let the second one go, you're at the stage where he should be pursuing you, but they aren't. The family are clearly not fussed, which at this point rings alarm bells for me.

Forget the second one.

Continue researching the first as they are clearly interested.


As a side note life can be simple no matter how well to do or otherwise a husband is, so long as the prospective husband fears Allah. Check whether he prays in congregation whenever possible, does he fast during Ramadan etc if he takes care of the fard he will take care of you because he fears Allah inshallah.


The second family just do not appear to be that into you or the thought of marrying by the sounds of things.








Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #3 on: Sep 14, 2011 12:59 PM »

Really? I didnt know it was haraam to consider more than one person at a time?
Why is this?

Also to clarify, I have just become a member Smiley

Well the guy who never replies, is not in consideration by my parents anymore, if that helps things... my parents have said that if he does ever reply or his parents they will not consider it...

somehow something is still pulling me towards that direction, i have no idea why

but you are right, I should forget about it and concentrate on the one that is replying, and take it as a sign from Allah.

on a side note, I have tried to enter the chat room but I am unable to?

Jazakallah!!
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« Reply #4 on: Sep 14, 2011 06:11 PM »

walaikum salaam wrt,

your post is very interesting mA Smiley agree with you in looking for all those nice things in a future husband, but to be fair parents are always looking out for you as well. they have more experience with the world (can't believe i'm saying this lol) and sometimes they bring up things that you don't consider because we're just thinking with the idealistic mindset of youth.  (like when they tell you to also really consider the family, we always used to be like what does his family have to do with it! but turns out in-laws are the #1 reason for divorce so something we should have considered!!) and when they consider his degrees/job prospect they are looking out for your future because they know living in poverty sux!

just try to explain to them that you'd ALSO like someone who shares your interests and is a good Muslim because you believe he'd be a better husband etc...

and i really suggest you do the istikharah prayer as many times as you can while considering someone. it really helps clear your thoughts and helps give you an answer either way.

it's true that two men should not propose to the same woman in islam. it looks like they have both proposed to your family? so it's better if you go one at a time. the second to me sounds like those guys just checking out the scene, keeping you as backup while they pursue other things, so i'd be careful about that.

ok take care inshallah and good luck  bebzi we definitely need a wedding around here so we can all dress up!!  princesssis


ps u can't chat because u didn't write an intro yet!
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« Reply #5 on: Sep 15, 2011 08:27 AM »

Just to clear things up (from a PM i recieved)

no actual proposals have been given, parents on both my side and the guys side are just "researching" each other Smiley

hope that makes it halal

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« Reply #6 on: Sep 15, 2011 09:16 AM »

As far as I know, the sin is only when a woman has accepted a proposal and is therefore engaged, then it becomes haraam for another man to ask for her hand whilst knowing she is already engaged to someone.  It doesn't sound like that here though, the impression I got in this case was that the families are merely enquiring about each other, in which case the sister isn't engaged.

I hope what is best for you reveals itself to you somehow inshaa'Allaah.  Choosing a husband/wife is not an easy matter and requires deliberation.

Take care.

'If he woke up and had enough food for the day and shelter (a roof over his head) and he does not fear for his safety, then it is as if he has been given the dunya.'
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 16, 2011 08:54 PM »

I'm not sure where to put this, as I'm new here and this thread was my very first post. I have to say, having moderatesufi be the first to reply me saying what my parents are doing was haraam was so so so scary. I guess I wasn't clear in my posts, which led him to that conclusion but still my stomach was in knots! And I'm glad I waited to see the reasoning before running to my parents telling them what he said lol. For a while i was scared that ev here would start disliking me because of that reply, and I was a bit embarassed and ashamed. Now I know what my parents are dong isn't haraam and I feel better. I also feel better after ev else's kind replies so thank you for that!!! Hopefully inshallah a decision is made soon and things go forward for me.
moderatesufi
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« Reply #8 on: Sep 16, 2011 09:17 PM »

There is no such thing as an engagement ceremony in Islam. There is Nikah (the marriage) and what comes before it for its purpose. Ladies can not meet many men, then choose the one they like best.

I know I am not a respected one in this forum, so go to a Musjid and ask a scholar. If that is what it takes for you to repent and advice your parents to repent.
And refrain from doing such anti-Islamic practices in the future.
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« Reply #9 on: Sep 16, 2011 09:59 PM »

salam


No body has mentioned anything about engagement ceremonies.

Sr Salampeaceshalom said
As far as I know, the sin is only when a woman has accepted a proposal and is therefore engaged, then it becomes haraam for another man to ask for her hand whilst knowing she is already engaged to someone.  It doesn't sound like that here though, the impression I got in this case was that the families are merely enquiring about each other, in which case the sister isn't engaged.



Nothing if which is haram or wrong or even incorrect as far as I can personally see.





Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #10 on: Sep 16, 2011 10:03 PM »

 No no no I have great respect for ev here, I honestly do. It's just that I got very very scared that's all. Allah is my witness I am sure my parents are not overstepping boundaries. I truly truly do appreciate all the advice and knowledge I ge from ev. And I've been reading this board, I respect ev one who posts and admire them for their opinions and thoughts.
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 16, 2011 11:04 PM »

Asalaamu Alaikum bro

Going back to the qualities of a prospective groom, I would try and ensure (over and above what Sr Fozia mentioned) that the brother display proper adab/etiquette and follows the sunnah of our beloved Prophet saw.

For example:

A brother who follows the Sunnah and greets his fellow Muslims with the Islamic greeting of peace, especially when meeting new Muslims for the first time.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and speaks in a kind and courteous manner.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and dispenses with argumentation since he knows this is one of the most hated things in Islam.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and safeguards the honour of his wife and her family and does not speak ill of them, their appearance  or their culture behind their backs.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and safeguards the sanctity and secrets of his wife and home.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and neither backbites or slanders and does not even consider talking about someone outside of their presence.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and who, when counselled and reminded, listens attentively and does not reject sincere advice out of arrogance or pride.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and who, when intent on declaring something as halal or haram, fears he may not have been aware of all the circumstances and all the scenarios and desists from making any judgement.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and who, when an error or misunderstanding is made, humbly seeks forgiveness from those he may have explicitly or inadvertently oppressed rather than completely rejecting any wrongdoing and continually blaming others.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and who, when shown his faults and shortcomings, realises that Allah is being merciful towards him by informing him of his confused and inappropriate behaviour.

Such a brother, inshaAllah, would thank those who had reminded him and busy himself with trying to rectify his faults and weaknesses and not feel rage or anger (within himself or to others) upon the receipt of such sincere advice.


That is a brother, that is a Muslim, that is Islam!!


Anything else unfortunately is a just a pathetic excuse for this great religion of ours and woe to those who profess to follow the Sunnah with their mouths but show a complete contempt for it with their actions!!


Marry a brother who has these qualities and if you can't find someone of that ilk, then at least marry someone who aspires to be  of that grandeur.


InshaAllah, I hope the above has been useful.


PS If you know of any such brothers in London, let me know because I have a daughter and it's never too early to start researching Wink

Say: "O ye my servants who believe! Fear your Lord, good is (the reward) for those who do good in this world. Spacious is God's earth! those who patiently persevere will truly receive a reward without measure!" [39:10]
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« Reply #12 on: Sep 16, 2011 11:31 PM »

salam

OMG you have so much in common with my mother Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy



PS If you know of any such brothers in London, let me know because I have a daughter and it's never too early to start researching Wink
She has been making duas for my daughters husbands too (I suspect from their births!).....

Your daughter is just a baby.

May Allah elevate her kismet (this would make sense if you spoke Urdu, it goes 'Allah iss ki kismet buland karey'), may her life be filled with love and Iman and the rememberence of Allah and great comfort and ease both in this life and the hereafter.




Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #13 on: Sep 16, 2011 11:33 PM »


A brother who follows the Sunnah and greets his fellow Muslims with the Islamic greeting of peace, especially when meeting new Muslims for the first time.

A brother who follows the Sunnah and speaks in a kind and courteous manner.

A brother who follows the Sunnah and dispenses with argumentation since he knows this is one of the most hated things in Islam.

A brother who follows the Sunnah and safeguards the honour of his wife and her family and does not speak ill of them, their appearance  or their culture behind their backs.

A brother who follows the Sunnah and safeguards the sanctity and secrets of his wife and home.

A brother who follows the Sunnah and neither backbites or slanders and does not even consider talking about someone outside of their presence.

A brother who follows the Sunnah and who, when counselled and reminded, listens attentively and does not reject sincere advice out of arrogance or pride.

A brother who follows the Sunnah and who, when intent on declaring something as halal or haram, fears he may not have been aware of all the circumstances and all the scenarios and desists from making any judgement.

A brother who follows the Sunnah and who, when an error or misunderstanding is made, humbly seeks forgiveness from those he may have explicitly or inadvertently oppressed rather than completely rejecting any wrongdoing and continually blaming others.

A brother who follows the Sunnah and who, when shown his faults and shortcomings, realises that Allah is being merciful towards him by informing him of his confused and inappropriate behaviour.

Such a brother, inshaAllah, would thank those who had reminded him and busy himself with trying to rectify his faults and weaknesses and not feel rage or anger (within himself or to others) upon the receipt of such sincere advice.


Mashaa'Allaah  Smiley

'If he woke up and had enough food for the day and shelter (a roof over his head) and he does not fear for his safety, then it is as if he has been given the dunya.'
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« Reply #14 on: Sep 16, 2011 11:44 PM »


 Ladies can not meet many men, then choose the one they like best.


I was trying really hard to understand this mashaa'Allaah.  I wasn't sure if you meant that a lady can't consider another man whilst she's already considering someone else, or did you mean something else?

'If he woke up and had enough food for the day and shelter (a roof over his head) and he does not fear for his safety, then it is as if he has been given the dunya.'
moderatesufi
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« Reply #15 on: Sep 16, 2011 11:56 PM »

I mean a lady having meetings for the purpose of marriage with more than one brother.
This trend has become very common in the west.
People have even organised so called "Islamic speed dating".
Where a bunch of guys and girls meet each other.
This Stuff is very anti-Islamic.
You need to reject the first person you are communicating with for marriage before you can consider a second.
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« Reply #16 on: Sep 17, 2011 04:05 AM »

Salam,

Bruv moderatesufi the reason why you think no one "respects" you here is because you make judgements and declarations and exaggerate things to make one opinion (your opinion) the only right and true opinion! Since when is Islamic speed dating Haram? Since when is considering a brother or two or three wrong.  When you make something Haram you have to be extremely explicit and you have to know of all the conditions of the person and the rulings therein. You are just not careful with what you say and that is not a sign of true wisdom or scholarship. I think I've tried to impart that to you and over and over again, that some of the things you say are not "wrong", and may be good points but the way you say them is wrong, what ppl take from it is wrong, and sometimes the saying of it the way you do brings more harm than good.

Look at this poor sister above ^ who just joined the board, who because of your (btw wrong) comments thought her parents were going to Hell!! AstaghfirAllah bro that's just not right.

Remember that the Hadith talks about a MAN proposing to a sister who has already been proposed to by someone else. Who is in the wrong? First of all the brother, second of all this is not the situation the sister is in.

Here is some more info and I'd say this topic can be pretty complex:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) disapproved of two persons competing with one another to secure marriage with the same girl. This is because such a situation is likely to develop bitter enmity between two Muslim brothers.

The Prophet said,

    "A believer is a brother of a believer. Hence it is not lawful for him to bargain upon the bargain of a brother, nor propose for (the hand of a girl) after the marriage proposal of his brother, until the latter (voluntarily) withdraws the proposal."

Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi'i, and Imam Malik, all hold the view that it is a sin to put a proposal of marriage against the proposal of another Muslim brother. However, if a marriage is contracted in this wrongful way it will be sufficient if the second suitor who was successful seeks the forgiveness of the first suitor and of Allah. But Imam Dhahiri considers such a marriage void. It is respectfully submitted that the former view is more rational and sound.


Please tell me you understand the difference between a proposal and checking out ppl for marriage? Also, please go back and read Abu Khaled's posts about what we post and consequences thereof. And go back and read BrKhalid's post about good qualities and think about them.





==================

Sis Fozia!! I thought I was the only crazy one who does this. I'm always on the lookout for my niece and nephews!!! And the oldest, my niece, is 6!!  My group of friends always joke about how we want our kids to marry each other. So they don't live through all the problems we did trying to find someone!! But we're going to let them CHOOSE but give them plenty of choices within our circle Wink We can always add some british kids now into the mix Cheesy

Can you imagine us in the year 2020 trying to match up our kids on here... we'll have to start a new board call Rishta Central  Grin
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« Reply #17 on: Sep 17, 2011 08:17 AM »

Jannah your post confirmed what I was saying. It didn't negate it. She has nothing to loss by going in to a Musjid to seek confirmation on this issue. She has nothing to loss by repenting. She has nothing to loss by telling her parents to repent.
And no one has anything to loss by fearing Allah.

The source of Islam isn't the practices of the white kaffir. The source of Islam is what was revealed to the Katam un Nabi  saw
Speed dating involves many suitors competing, not two.
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« Reply #18 on: Sep 17, 2011 12:16 PM »

Asalaamu Alaikum bro

Jazakhallah for the dua Sr Fozia and let me know where to sign up my daughter for Rishta Central Sr Jannah Wink


Br moderatesufi, perhaps you could do the honourable and noble thing and apologise to Sr austmuslimah either here or in private for your misguided accusations in respect of her parents and herself resulting from your misunderstanding of the hadith in respect of proposals, meetings and research.

I think it is pretty clear to most people here that it is unlikely her parents have engaged in any sort of haram and that there is no reason to make amends.


If it is unclear to you as to why this is the case, may I suggest you show this thread to your own Imam and I am sure he will be happy to point out the deficiencies in your understanding.


As Sr Jannah has pointed above, these points have already been mentioned to you numerous times and frankly it is a slight on your character that either you do not understand what is being said to you or (even worse) you are belligerent in not wishing to follow the sincere advice which many have given you.


The sign of a true Muslim is to admit a wrong when an error has been made (this was the way of our father Adam (as)) and not to blame others out of self conceit and vaingloriously pride (as was the case with Iblis).


Should you choose to disregard this naseehah and continue to argue your case such that no one else could ever possibly be right besides yourself, it should be an indication to yourself of the size of your own ego.


For once, can you not be a real man and humble yourself and sincerely apologise? If it is indeed respect that you crave, here is a wonderful opportunity to obtain that which you desire.

Are you really so wrapped up in yourself that you can not even bring yourself to say the words:

'I apologise for my behaviour and for any harm I may have caused my fellow brothers and sisters in the course of my posts here'


I, for the one, think you can so please don't let me down after I have taken the time effort to write this post.


To the other members of the board (especially newbies and lurkers), please be wary whenever a clear statement of halal or haram is made over an unclear issue. None of us are scholars capable of issuing fatwas and nor should we be attempting to do so.


Circumstances and scenarios vary wildly such that it is always best to seek out a proper scholarly opinion on doubtful matters.


Wasalaam
BrKhalid

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« Reply #19 on: Sep 17, 2011 02:40 PM »

BrKhalid,
If you and your interpretations of Hadith are correct, she still has nothing to loss from going to a Musjid and seeking advice from the Ulima. She and her parents have nothing to lose by repenting and fearing Allah.
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« Reply #20 on: Sep 17, 2011 02:58 PM »

SubhanAllaah.  Before I withdraw from this particular discussion I would like to point out the hadith in which a lady came to the Prophet for advice saw after BOTH Muawiyah and Abu Jahm proposed to her and she was unsure as to who to marry.  The Prophet  saw informed her that Muawiyah did not have enough to spend on her of the obligatory spending which a husband is obligated to spend on his wife.  And that Abu Jahm hit women a lot with his stick to the extent that his stick did not leave his shoulder, it might be said.  From this it can be seen that the Prophet saw did not tell her she should not be considering the two men at the same time, rather, he advised her by pointing out matters in BOTH men which would aide her decision as to who to marry.

I mean a lady having meetings for the purpose of marriage with more than one brother...
You need to reject the first person you are communicating with for marriage before you can consider a second.


She and her parents have nothing to lose by repenting and fearing Allah.

There are two types of repenting: One is when one has actually committed a sin and then one is obligated to repent immediately having known they have committed that sin.  The second is when one knows something is a sin but one cannot remember committing that sin, but one repents from it in case one did commit it.  In both cases one can only repent from a sin when it is clear that the matter is a sinful matter.  In this case the sister and her parents do not appear to have committed any type of sin, which I hope has become more clear from the hadith I have mentioned in this post.

Lastly, personally I do not think there is anymore that can be said now on this issue, apart from Allaah Guides Whom He Wills.

'If he woke up and had enough food for the day and shelter (a roof over his head) and he does not fear for his safety, then it is as if he has been given the dunya.'
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« Reply #21 on: Sep 17, 2011 03:25 PM »

If you want to know what sort of repenting you should be doing, don't you think it is about time you go to a Musjid and ask if it is ok for you to be communicating with two guys for the purpose of marriage at the same time?

What have you got to lose?
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« Reply #22 on: Sep 17, 2011 08:06 PM »

Rishta Central Sr Jannah!!! Lol that's cute and funny! Sounds like an exclusive Muslim version of shaadi.com lol  Cheesy
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« Reply #23 on: Sep 18, 2011 03:53 PM »

Rishta Central Sr Jannah!!! Lol that's cute and funny! Sounds like an exclusive Muslim version of shaadi.com lol  Cheesy

lol and I figured out where it is, in the chat1!!! a few ppl were on last night and that's what we discussed Wink they will remain nameless of course....
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« Reply #24 on: Sep 18, 2011 07:59 PM »

These are wonderful words BrKhalid Jazakallah!!!

Asalaamu Alaikum bro

Going back to the qualities of a prospective groom, I would try and ensure (over and above what Sr Fozia mentioned) that the brother display proper adab/etiquette and follows the sunnah of our beloved Prophet saw.

For example:

A brother who follows the Sunnah and greets his fellow Muslims with the Islamic greeting of peace, especially when meeting new Muslims for the first time.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and speaks in a kind and courteous manner.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and dispenses with argumentation since he knows this is one of the most hated things in Islam.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and safeguards the honour of his wife and her family and does not speak ill of them, their appearance  or their culture behind their backs.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and safeguards the sanctity and secrets of his wife and home.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and neither backbites or slanders and does not even consider talking about someone outside of their presence.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and who, when counselled and reminded, listens attentively and does not reject sincere advice out of arrogance or pride.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and who, when intent on declaring something as halal or haram, fears he may not have been aware of all the circumstances and all the scenarios and desists from making any judgement.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and who, when an error or misunderstanding is made, humbly seeks forgiveness from those he may have explicitly or inadvertently oppressed rather than completely rejecting any wrongdoing and continually blaming others.


A brother who follows the Sunnah and who, when shown his faults and shortcomings, realises that Allah is being merciful towards him by informing him of his confused and inappropriate behaviour.

Such a brother, inshaAllah, would thank those who had reminded him and busy himself with trying to rectify his faults and weaknesses and not feel rage or anger (within himself or to others) upon the receipt of such sincere advice.


That is a brother, that is a Muslim, that is Islam!!


Anything else unfortunately is a just a pathetic excuse for this great religion of ours and woe to those who profess to follow the Sunnah with their mouths but show a complete contempt for it with their actions!!


Marry a brother who has these qualities and if you can't find someone of that ilk, then at least marry someone who aspires to be  of that grandeur.


InshaAllah, I hope the above has been useful.


PS If you know of any such brothers in London, let me know because I have a daughter and it's never too early to start researching Wink
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