// Questions on marrriage?
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austmuslimah
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« Reply #25 on: Sep 18, 2011 08:01 PM »

Rishta Central Sr Jannah!!! Lol that's cute and funny! Sounds like an exclusive Muslim version of shaadi.com lol  Cheesy

lol and I figured out where it is, in the chat1!!! a few ppl were on last night and that's what we discussed Wink they will remain nameless of course....


lol sorry Jannah I'm a bit lost in what you are saying...? Sorry I'm sure its simple but sometimes I have very alarming blonde moments...
BrKhalid
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« Reply #26 on: Sep 19, 2011 10:01 PM »

Asalaamu Alaikum bro

Quote
lol and I figured out where it is, in the chat1!!! a few ppl were on last night and that's what we discussed  they will remain nameless of course....


I think what happened was that there was a rishta flash mob which suddenly descended on chat Wink


Btw good to see you back Sr salaampeaceshalom. Did you guys get to the States in the end?


Say: "O ye my servants who believe! Fear your Lord, good is (the reward) for those who do good in this world. Spacious is God's earth! those who patiently persevere will truly receive a reward without measure!" [39:10]
salaampeaceshalom
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« Reply #27 on: Sep 20, 2011 08:54 AM »


Btw good to see you back Sr salaampeaceshalom. Did you guys get to the States in the end?


Thanks. Yes we did, but we didn't end up planning a 'big' trip as we'd hoped due to money and time.  However, it was still a blast mashaa'Allaah. We ended up camping for a week in a national park, and we went whitewater rafting, mashaa'Allaah!! I met a sister there, whilst camping, who lived in Philly, which was our next stop, and when we got to Philly we realsied we couldn't get to where we had been hoping to stay, so I rang her and she very kindly agreed for us to stay at her house for a couple of nights.  We held an impromptu bbq at a park, and then had a bit of a crazy tour of Philly at 2am, which included us having a race with a group of Muslims we just met at the Rocky stairs and then they showed us Love Park and a few other sights.  We tried some water ice, (I don't know if anyone here knows what that is) which they were insisting we had to try.  We then headed over to Chicago for a few days, and Milwaukee, and then stayed in New York for awhile.  New York was great.  I had high hopes for it and it didn't let me down lol.  We biked through Central Park, and early on in New York I promptly went wayy over budget and sadly, don't really have anything tangible to show for it.

I have very fond memories of all the ppl we met, and I think it's fair to say that if it wasn't for them, our trip perhaps would have been very different.  I really noticed though how the Muslims there seem to be so much more integrated in to the wider American culture, whereas I don't think, we, the British Muslim community have really integrated to the same extent here.

'If he woke up and had enough food for the day and shelter (a roof over his head) and he does not fear for his safety, then it is as if he has been given the dunya.'
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« Reply #28 on: Sep 20, 2011 11:27 AM »

Asalaamu Alaikum bro

Quote
I really noticed though how the Muslims there seem to be so much more integrated in to the wider American culture, whereas I don't think, we, the British Muslim community have really integrated to the same extent here.


A fair point I would say mostly because the sheer numbers of Muslims now in certain areas of the UK makes it easy in not having to integrate.

In America, there does not seem to be that critical mass.


Quote
and then had a bit of a crazy tour of Philly at 2am, which included us having a race with a group of Muslims we just met at the Rocky stairs


The Rocky stairs would definitely be the main reason I would go to Philly!!!

Jogging down that main road, breaking into a fast run and then sprinting up those stairs, waving arms wildly at the top and shouting "Yo Adrian" at the top of your voice Wink

Of course the reality is that you're more likely to be bent double when you reach the top such that some people may think you are doing a voluntary sujood bro


Sounds like a really nice trip!!


Quote
If you and your interpretations of Hadith are correct, she still has nothing to loss from going to a Musjid and seeking advice from the Ulima. She and her parents have nothing to lose by repenting and fearing Allah.


How sad that you chose to continue arguing. I honestly thought you were better than that.

What you clearly fail to realise is that you have potentially falsely accused this sister's parents of committing something haram (slander) or at best potentially only backbitten them.

As a reminder, slander is a major sin in Islam, worse than backbiting which in itself is a major sin 70 times worse than adultery.

My apologies for stressing this but this is not a trivial matter and on the Day of Judgement we are going to wish we guarded our tongues when the sins relating to it [the tongue] become apparent.

What's worse, however in my opinion, is that when you were reminded, you chose to continue to argue your position where as the true servant of Allah would fear if he had indeed done something wrong and would make immediate recompense.


This isn't about the sister or her parents or their actions but about *your* actions.


If you don't understand the Fiqh in this thread than just humble yourself and make an effort to learn. No one is capable of knowing everything, especially in this day and age.


How sad that whilst most of us visit the board to learn and gain reward, there are some who obtain nothing but increased sins for the utterances they manifest.


Definitely something for all us to think about.

Say: "O ye my servants who believe! Fear your Lord, good is (the reward) for those who do good in this world. Spacious is God's earth! those who patiently persevere will truly receive a reward without measure!" [39:10]
moderatesufi
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« Reply #29 on: Sep 20, 2011 11:44 AM »

Again I repeat, the method of finding whether meeting more than one suitor at anyone one time is something she should be doing or something she should be repenting for is to go to her Musjid and speak to Ulima she trusts.
Something, I have been telling her to do, very early on, in this thread.
I fail to understand why you would have a problem with her going to her own scholars?
Or me advising her to do that, or me advising her to repent.
I don't know about your level of Islamic knowledge, but you must assume it is really very high if you do not agree with my advice to her to seek knowledge on this issue from Ulima she trusts?

Fozia
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« Reply #30 on: Sep 20, 2011 12:19 PM »

salam

The hadith does not put any sin on the woman for entertaining proposals, the onus is on muslim brothers and is meant to prevent them vying for the same woman's hand in marriage, if they know the other has presented a proposal to the sister in question.

The hadith is very clear, there's nothing to interperet or second guess.


Some posts remind me very strongly of the warning that Allah puts seals across hearts and ears of some and they will not listen despite being warned.

Debate in this case is futile, especially as the answers are clouded by prejuidice and a dogged rejection of the clear truth.




Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #31 on: Sep 20, 2011 12:19 PM »

Asalaamu Alaikum bro

Quote
This isn't about the sister or her parents or their actions but about *your* actions

Just do the honorable thing and admit perhaps you were hasty in rushing to conclusions without realizing the full circumstances.

Is it really that difficult for you to do?

Again, to reiterate this is about *you* and *your ego*.

Causing offence to others is something you should take seriously especially when you are talking about others outside of their presence.

Say: "O ye my servants who believe! Fear your Lord, good is (the reward) for those who do good in this world. Spacious is God's earth! those who patiently persevere will truly receive a reward without measure!" [39:10]
moderatesufi
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« Reply #32 on: Sep 20, 2011 12:36 PM »

Khalid, Fozia, go to YOUR Musjid, and ask YOUR  Ulima about YOUR powers of interpretation on the Hadith.

I didn't one day read the Hadith and make the judgement. Ulima made the ruling.
I was told this rule, without the hadith ever being mentioned by people far more knowledge.



If you two haven't been told by Ulima that it is lawful for a woman to meet two suitors at once, I really think both of you need to fear Allah and repent. And refrain from making up your own interpretations in regards to Hadith.

I have already been told the ruling on this issue. If you two haven't heard of it, it is better for you two to speak to the Ulima on this issue then make up your own rulings by examining Hadith.
If that is what you have been doing, I really hope you have been given Ijaza by a Mujtahid to do such a thing. Or else you really need to fear Allah and repent a lot.

 
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« Reply #33 on: Sep 20, 2011 12:58 PM »

Asalaamu Alaikum bro

Again to reiterate I am not talking about the Hadith, I am talking about *you* and *your* behaviour.

Is it really that difficult to get you stay on topic?

Again, will you do the honorable thing and apologise for your comments and behaviour in this thread?

Why is saying sorry so difficult?


On a more general level (and the reason why I've been pushing this debate) is the reality sometimes that people are simply not aware of the trespasses they commit (especially to others) and moreover are then obstinate in insisting they have done nothing wrong.


It is said that the ego is worse than seventy devils and if we allow it to overcome us, we are a pale version of what a Muslim should be.

External actions (even if huge in number) are worthless if our hearts and egos are not sound.

A reminder for myself, and for us all, especially as Ramadhan has just ended and the devils have been unchained.


Wasalaam
BrKhalid


Say: "O ye my servants who believe! Fear your Lord, good is (the reward) for those who do good in this world. Spacious is God's earth! those who patiently persevere will truly receive a reward without measure!" [39:10]
austmuslimah
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« Reply #34 on: Sep 20, 2011 01:22 PM »

Asalaamu Alaikum bro

A reminder for myself, and for us all, especially as Ramadhan has just ended and the devils have been unchained.


What do you mean by that BrKhalid?
jannah
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« Reply #35 on: Sep 20, 2011 04:57 PM »

Ok the end.
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« Reply #36 on: Oct 05, 2011 02:44 AM »

Assalaam Alaikum,

I asked a Shaykh about this topic this evening. So just as completeness I will post what he generally recommended.

1. There is a difference between doing research/looking into/thinking of ppl as possibilities and actually proposing marriage.

2. There's nothing wrong with families looking at different people as suitors for their daughter, even at the same time.

3. If two suitors make proposals at the same time to a sister, and it was unknown to them about the other, it is not a sin on them. They should be apprised of each other though.

4. Meeting multiple possible people at things like a "matrimonial dinner" or "Halal speed dating" with the right conditions and limits is fine. Nothing wrong with this within Islamic limits. It is not the same as proposals of marriage. Caveat that not everything they do at ISNA etc is Halal though (his words)

5. Basically the wrong comes in when a brother deliberately makes an outright proposal to a sister when he knows someone else has before him.

as with everything please check with your local Imam/scholar. And Allah knows best.
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