// Crown Prince Sultan dies
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austmuslimah
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« on: Oct 22, 2011 08:43 AM »


The Saudi Crown Prince has passed away.


http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-crown-prince-dies-abroad-illness-061828289.html
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« Reply #1 on: Oct 22, 2011 09:50 AM »

Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Ilayhi Rajiun

But, as a side note I think it is good that he didn't get the chance to become king.

I wonder what's gonna happen to my dad's job now, considering that Saudi Airlines was Sultan's baby. Hope it stays put.
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« Reply #2 on: Oct 23, 2011 02:35 AM »

I heard he had a form of dementia maybe, but he was diagnosed with colon cancer.

Saw a tweet that said he had 17 wives, 12 of whom he divorced, 2 died and 3 that fathered 33 children.

That's for a whole 'nother discussion of course

I read that the King's likely successor, Prince Nayef is much more conservative that King Abdullah, so that wouldn't be a good thing I am assuming. Any insight akhan bhai?

Also, the larger issue is that the original children (Sudairi Seven) of King AbdulAziz ibn Saud are in their 70s and 80s so the issue of which of the numerous grandchildren will take over is just on the horizon - again, any opinion or insight akhan?

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« Reply #3 on: Oct 23, 2011 03:42 AM »

Like you said baba, Nayef is pretty conservative. Good or bad? I can't say until he actually becomes king. Considering that Saudi law is already conservative for the most part, I don't think a lot will change. The only thing that can is the reform process that King Abdullah started, it might be stalled. Just have to wait and watch.

The Sudairi seven are not the only children bro. King Abdul Aziz had so many wives(22) and children(45 sons, I don't know how many daughters) that there are factions amongst his children. The Sudairi seven is the most powerful faction because they are the largest set of full brothers and their mother, Hassa bint Ahmed Al Sudairi belonged to the Sudairi tribe which was one of the most powerful tribes in Nejd. With Fahd and Sultan dead, there are only five remaining. Now they're not the only ones in contention for the throne, there are others as well. After Nayef, I don't think any other Sudairi will hold such a position. Primarily because there is a lot of effort within the royal family itself to curb the power of the Sudairi seven. They say in Saudi that if King Abdullah didn't have the SANG to himself, the Sudairi seven would've devoured him. Until Fahd, the King would usually name his successor with some sort of consensus among the royal family, but after Abdullah became king there was a lot of dispute among the different groups, mainly between Abdullah and the Sudairis and therefore Abdullah created the Allegiance Council which would name the crown prince and the second deputy. With this, the power of the Sudairis now stands diluted because they(the 7 and their sons) hold only one fifth of the seats on the council which is lesser than the actual power that they actually wield in the kingdom. But still they say that the Sudairis hold considerable influence over half the members of the council. This system of succession was to be implemented from Sultan's rule, but now that Sultan has died before becoming king, for now I think Abdullah will choose who gets to become his successors. Nayef is the most probable for now but looking at the fact that Abdullah has been a reformer and has sprung up some surprises in the past, I won't be surprised if he asks the Allegiance Council to do the job for him. Just wait and watch. And whatever happens, let's just hope it eases citizenship laws Cheesy
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 02, 2011 02:31 AM »

to begin with, the egalitarian nature of islam does not go with the concept of royalty as such all 'royal' regimes are by definition illegitimate.

secondly, once democracy reaches the arabian peninsula, all the nonsense about 'wali' etc will cease and all residents with reasonable residency etc will get citizenship and then we can have a normal state there...
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« Reply #5 on: Jun 17, 2012 03:28 AM »

OK, just thought I could add the latest here - another one passes away - I immediately thought about what akhan said about many of them having cancer or something to that effect - says he died of some heart-related condition though..

http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-crown-prince-nayef-dead-state-tv-104301791.html;_ylt=A2KJ3CRrQN1PrXsA_TzQtDMD

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« Reply #6 on: Jun 17, 2012 05:35 AM »

baba bhai it's not like all of them have cancer Smiley
However, Prince Salman, who's most likely going to be named crown prince, does have it.

I am waiting to see one of King Faisal's sons get into the line of succession.
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« Reply #7 on: Jun 17, 2012 08:44 AM »

22 wives  Shocked no wonder it gets so complicated after that
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« Reply #8 on: Jun 18, 2012 06:02 AM »

22 wives  Shocked no wonder it gets so complicated after that

what the?? so he like gets a new one and divorces an old one every after 2 years or something?? wack. i wonder if most guys would do that if they had the (oil) $$
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« Reply #9 on: Jun 18, 2012 08:50 AM »

Such guys should have wives who have studied science and discuss interesting possibilities of "things that could go wrong" with random stuff, say such as food, the fan, electricity etc over dinner. Perfectly normal, right?

But really, does the meaning of marriage differs so much between women and men? Does divorce, split families, and death of wives mean so little to men these days? Puts one off marriage quite a bit.
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« Reply #10 on: Jun 18, 2012 12:26 PM »

22 wives  Shocked no wonder it gets so complicated after that

what the?? so he like gets a new one and divorces an old one every after 2 years or something?? wack. i wonder if most guys would do that if they had the (oil) $$

You see, Saudi Arabia wasn't Saudi Arabia until King Abdul Aziz made it happen. It was just a vast desert full of warring tribes. King Abdul Aziz conquered every tribe with the help of the Ikhwan(the predecessors of the religious police) and married the daughter of the chief of every tribe he conquered to physically bring it into his alliance coz at that time(and even today to a great extent) being family was a big deal, people would sacrifice their lives for family. There's actually a legend about King Abdul Aziz that goes back to his warring days. After the battle all his bedouin co warriors would sit around a campfire and joke about him having a sword of steel which he would use to conquer and a sword of flesh that he would use after he had conquered Tongue
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« Reply #11 on: Jun 18, 2012 03:50 PM »

Hmmm, warring tribes, sounds familiar.....

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL akhan, swords........


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« Reply #12 on: Jun 18, 2012 07:06 PM »

baba bhai Grin I said what I know

and btw, a small correction - King Abdul Aziz's Ikhwan army was the predecessor of the SANG not the religious police.
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« Reply #13 on: Jun 19, 2012 06:12 PM »

Still.. if he married one from every tribe, and then divorced all but 4 of them - wouldn't 18 tribes be pretty mad at him? I think this goes back to ruhee's statement... meaning of marriage and all.
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« Reply #14 on: Jun 19, 2012 06:24 PM »

he prolly had kids with every single one. That would maintain blood ties.....and create blood thirsty factions!


And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #15 on: Jun 20, 2012 02:33 AM »

he prolly had kids with every single one. That would maintain blood ties.....and create blood thirsty factions!
Exactly! The Sudairi faction is the most powerful of those - King Fahd, Crown Princes Sultan and Nayef, Crown Prince to be, Salman and newly named Interior Minister, Prince Ahmed.
And to this day, every prince does more or less the same, marry in droves Tongue The current King, Abdullah married around 13 times.

The Bin Laden patriarch, Mohammed bin Laden(OBL's dad) did the same. He had two senior wives that were permanent and he kept changing the other two. That's why you have such a huge bin laden family. Same thing with the AliRezas and probably in every other wealthy Saudi family.
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« Reply #16 on: Jun 20, 2012 10:12 AM »

Isn't the whole point of marriage is to enter a stable relationship that should ideally last for the whole of one's life? If you keep changing it like trends change in fashion than what's the point? Apart from the legal status of marriage - what's the difference between just dating for as long as it feels "right" and than letting go? -lack of commitment = cowardice in my book! Grow a spine, take responsibility & live to the ideals- enough with the "i'm only human" excuses (I must sound like a old granny but such things are just frustrating -especially when you're at the age when all "mothers" suddenly get all interested in you- I am praying for protection now like never before  Lips Sealed).
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« Reply #17 on: Jun 20, 2012 11:36 AM »

Entering a marriage with the intention of ending it is as far as I'm aware not allowed, however I'm sure these people have scholarly justification behind their actions.

I'm sure he's now answering to Allah for his actions.

I find male attitudes to Nikah more and more disturbing.

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #18 on: Jun 20, 2012 03:19 PM »

I want to agree with sr. fozia.
 
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« Reply #19 on: Jun 21, 2012 07:34 AM »

I just watched A Tale of Two Brains.

Has anyone else seen it? (available on YouTube)
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« Reply #20 on: Jun 21, 2012 11:09 AM »

I think that's a cop out, a way for validating bad behaviour. Oh he's a guy.

He doesn't do housework, he's a guy
He screws around, he's a guy
He doesn't clear up after himself, he's a guy
He marries and divorces like its going out of fashion, he's a guy
He stays out all hours with his mates and doesn't spend any time with his family, he's a guy.
He's walked out on his family and young children, he's a guy
He wont spend on his family, he's a guy

The list is endless

Frankly we are all capable of behaving like animals its not gender specific.

We have the ability and the knowledge to distinguish the right from wrong. What we then choose to do is completely and utterly down to us and we are answerable for it.

Somehow I don't think the answer to 'why did you make Nikah a joke and a means to attain power, whilst transgressing your limits and trampling the rights of your wives and children' is 'oh cos I'm a guy...'


And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #21 on: Jun 21, 2012 03:24 PM »

ws,

I haven't watched the whole video that justone posted but I don't think anyone's excusing his behavior because he's a guy. I think they're excusing it cuz he's a Saudi Royal!! and they, Saudi royals BOTH men and women, seem to have their own rules and behavior!!! If any ordinary Muslim did those things there would be no excuse and maybe we should be holding the royals to that same standard.
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« Reply #22 on: Jun 21, 2012 03:54 PM »

I don't think Sis JO was justifying the behaviour but that comedian was. I don't find things like that funny, it seems like laughing about it seems to belittle any objections towards it.

The rich usually behave however they please as they reckon money will buy them out of anything. And mostly they're right.... In this life anyway.

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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