// Questioning Allah about Slavery?
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« on: Dec 19, 2011 06:01 AM »


hi I'm black and i am a Muslim i feel almost in a seance betrayed by god that back in the day when he brought Islam it was already hard enough for these people to change religions and go against almost everyone in the city y did he not throw in also by the way people u are no longer allowed to have slaves i do not understand y he had to count them as property as almost objects help!!

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« Reply #1 on: Dec 19, 2011 06:21 AM »

walaikum salam,

Thanks for asking this question. I think to answer this question we have to go back to that time and understand that the slavery that existed then is not the same type of slavery we saw in the West during these past centuries. Slavery then for (1) was not based on race or color ie bilal was black african and zaid was arab white, both were slaves based on things that happened to them. Also (2) slavery was not inherited. If someone was a slave and had a child they weren't automatically slaves as well.

Secondly something to understand is that when Islam came down it limited some things and regulated some things like having multiple wives and slavery. Muslims could only now have 4 wives and they had to be treated equally under strict conditions. In the same way slaves had to be treated properly and given rights and there are sooo many Hadith encouraging the freeing of slaves and their well treatment. We also know that the Prophet (s) gave Zaid the chance to be free and go back to his rich parents but he himself refused. And we know of his love of Barakah, the slave who practically raised him after his mother died and how much he loved and cared for her.

So we can see how much things changed after Islam came regarding this aspect. Maybe Allah could have said Ok no slaves and only 1 wife, but such things in that society are pretty drastic. It makes more sense and wiser to bring the people gradually to good treatment and limitations. Remember also that the enemies of Islam used to make fun of Muslims saying that the only people becoming Muslims were slaves and the weak ppl. This is because Islam elevated slaves to the level of human beings, and enjoined good treatment and freeing of slaves.

Of course now slavery is outlawed everywhere in the world, including all Muslim countries so discussing the issue seems kind of redundant. Some missionaries like to bring it up even though their own religions have a very dark and ugly past regarding justifying slavery based on race/color/inheritance/religion and horrible treatment. They also in the last few decades hate seeing African Americans come back to Islam like Malcolm X etc and others who realized their ancestors were Muslims who were brought over here, so they want to create a divide between African American Muslims and Arab Muslims.

A really good book to read about this subject is by Sylvia Diouf called Servants of Allah: African Muslims Enslaved in the Americas (1998) which talks about the slaves in the US brought over under horrible conditions, justified by Christianity and how they tried to keep their Islam.

and Allah knows best.

P.S. - Also, please watch this:

Islam, Slavery and the African - By Abdullah Hakim Quick (The video's owner prevents external embedding)
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« Reply #2 on: Dec 19, 2011 10:08 AM »

salam


These are my unlearned observations of the Islamic stance on slavery.

Firstly a free person is not allowed to be taken as a slave, which pretty much rules out everyone no?

Secondly practically every act of repentance contains either the giving of alms or manumitting a slave in recompense.

The above two on  their own pretty much ensures that eventually slavery is erradicated.

Also as Sr Jannah says, slavery in the middle east was never concentrated on people of one colour, it was pretty much a free for all. Yusuf (as) was sold as a slave (before the time of the Prophet (saw) obviously) I dont think he was black.

If Islam stated right from the start you must free all your slaves, stop drinking, stop marrying lots wives, etc etc it would have scared people away, it's always easier to go on as you begin so Islam made it easy to stop slavery instead and rewarding to free slaves.




Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #3 on: Dec 19, 2011 04:08 PM »

Allah is the one who will question us, and we are not the ones that question Allah.
When a matter is decided for us, we say "we hear and obey", while the Jews say "we hear and disobey".

This question should be put to the Christians. Because they are the ones that carried blacks to enslavement in America over an ocean.

Our religion is the truth and that is all that matters.
Yes Jihad is part of our faith. And when we fight, we do take prisoners.
"take no prisoners" is what they, the Americans practiced in Sunni parts of Iraq.
It is not what we practice.
Sometimes prisoners are exchanged for Muslims that were captured by the enemies of Allah. At other times their people can ransom them with payment.
If they refuse to do so, it is up to us whether we make them work for the food they eat the clothes they wear and the homes they live in while they are held by us. We are under no obligation to release them so they can attack us a second time.

Call this slavery if you will.
I call it justice.
The Justice of Allah.
Not the Justice that the "take no prisoners" Americans practice on us when they steal our oil, or the native Americans when they stole their lands.
And what we did which they call slavery is very different to what they did to the blacks.
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« Reply #4 on: Dec 19, 2011 09:40 PM »

There are so many instances of the early days of Islam when the richer Muslims helped to buy and free slaves. Slavery in the form of beating, whipping, abuse, and degradation as a human was stopped. Freeing of slaves and helping them to create their own life and accepting the word of Allah happened frequently at that time.

I think slaves were more like houseboys or maids, they helped around the house and were loyal to thier "masters"... but in Islam it was highly encouraged to free ones slaves. It was never like the abuse that happened to the African Americans later in history.

And moderatesufi i just dont understand a word of what ur saying?
moderatesufi
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« Reply #5 on: Dec 20, 2011 06:16 PM »

What I am saying is.
When we had wars we took prisoners.
Sometimes these prisoners had to work.

I do not see that as a bad thing.
And I do not see that to be like what the White Christians did to black people in Africa.
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« Reply #6 on: Dec 20, 2011 06:24 PM »

I also don't see why it has to be relegated to the past.
The Khilafah will be reestablished, and Palestine will be liberated.
What happens to all the Zionists that are captured during that war?
Freedom so they can destroy the Khilafah and capture occupy Palestine a second time?
Remember, "take no prisoners" is what they the Jews practice on us, not what we practice on others.
So what should happen to all the prisoners.
Free food, clothing and shelter paid for by your taxes? Or should they work, like the rest of us?

I am sure some moderate types will scream for them to be freed. The same moderates who remain silent about all the Muslims in all the prisons and torture centres all over the world.
But I am not a moderate.
We should follow the example of the Prophet pbh and the Khilafah RA that followed him.

Arbeit macht frei
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« Reply #7 on: Dec 20, 2011 10:52 PM »

Quote
Allah is the one who will question us, and we are not the ones that question Allah.

This is true, however when someone has doubts and questions, they should ask them to help develop yaqeen in their hearts. We know Allah created all these rules out of wisdom for us and sometimes we cannot see the wisdom, but others can and them explaining to us helps our Imaan.

ws
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« Reply #8 on: Dec 21, 2011 02:09 AM »

Just wanted to add that we can get to know Allah through His Names and Attributes.

So for example, Allah is the Most Just. Allah is the Most Merciful. Allah is the Most Wise.

He will never be unjust, unmerciful or unwise.

So if there is something that Allah enjoins upon us and we think to ourselves oh that seems not fair or unjust or not right, we need to know that it's really us that isn't able to understand the why of something, it is us that has the deficiency and it's us that needs to find the answers to understand something because it is not possible for Allah to be unjust.

Once we understand Allah better we strengthen our Iman and connection with Him, and when things like this come up we don't "question" Allah, but we seek to understand the whys and wisdoms perhaps.


Here's a nice list of Allah's Names that we can contemplate over: http://www.jannah.org/articles/names.html






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« Reply #9 on: Dec 29, 2011 09:06 PM »

I also don't see why it has to be relegated to the past.
The Khilafah will be reestablished, and Palestine will be liberated.
What happens to all the Zionists that are captured during that war?
Freedom so they can destroy the Khilafah and capture occupy Palestine a second time?
Remember, "take no prisoners" is what they the Jews practice on us, not what we practice on others.
So what should happen to all the prisoners.
Free food, clothing and shelter paid for by your taxes? Or should they work, like the rest of us?

I am sure some moderate types will scream for them to be freed. The same moderates who remain silent about all the Muslims in all the prisons and torture centres all over the world.
But I am not a moderate.
We should follow the example of the Prophet pbh and the Khilafah RA that followed him.

Arbeit macht frei

I would suggest dear brother, that you do not let your anger and emotions play with your mind. Prisoners have rights from Allah, we are to treat them with dignity. It is your opinion that those zionist will be released to repeat. Having them treated badly just fuels the fire that Muslims are cruel, uneducated barbarians. No all those in Israel are zionist. There are innocents stuck in the mix.

It does not matter what the Jews did to that Arabs, Or what the "white Christians" do. What matters is what you do when given the opportunity. If you hear and you obey, then you MUST give them their rights and let them earn their freedom or if Allah wills perhaps they will become Muslims- Allahu Alam.

In the Quran, Allah says of the righteous (interpretation of the meaning):

76:8-9 “And they give food, in spite of their love for it (or for the love of Him), to the Miskeen (the poor), the orphan, and the captive, (Saying): ‘We feed you seeking Allah’s Countenance only. We wish for no reward, nor thanks from you’”

and

9:29 “FightT those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.”

You can't just treat people poorly because you want to "do to them what they did to your people"

Remember dear brother

4:135 “O you who believe! be maintainers of justice, bearers of witness of Allah's sake, though it may be against your own selves or (your) parents or near relatives; if he be rich or poor, Allah is nearer to them both in compassion; therefore do not follow (your) low desires, lest you deviate; and if you swerve or turn aside, then surely Allah is aware of what you do.”

So don't condemn and enslave everyone who may not be guilty.

I believe in Islam like the sun rising, not because I see it but because by it, I see everything else.
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« Reply #10 on: Dec 31, 2011 02:25 PM »

What I said was in relation to the title of the thread.
Slavery as allowed by Allah.
I am not one the denies what Allah has allowed to please the enemies of Allah.
I am not one that is embarrassed about the Quran, the Spoken word of Allah, and his last revelation sent to humanity. One that will not be abrogated. And one that exists to be implemented till the last day.

When Palestine is liberated, prisoners will be captured.
The Khalif and his representatives will decide what will happen to the prisoners.
And if some are enslaved, I will not condemn them and remove my Bayah from them.
I will not twist verses of the Quran to change their meaning.
Or state that the rule has been abrogated when it clearly hasn't.

Instead I will inquire to see if I will get a share of what has been captured.

And if I have a share, it is up to me whether I set them free or make them work for a living.

 mrdarcy


Arbeit macht frei
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