// The British Muslim men who love 'both their wives'
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« on: Oct 01, 2011 05:45 AM »


So how prevalent is it in the UK?? There was some other article that accused Muslim men of milking the welfare system with all these polygamous marriages and it made it seem like it was running rampant over there!!  bolding the  Shocked parts and the only part i like the shaikh making sense...J.

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The British Muslim men who love 'both their wives'

BBC Asia News
 
The number of polygamous relationships among British Muslims is increasing, according to British Muslim groups. So what is it like to have two wives or be married to a man and share him with someone else?

"I love both of them. Obviously you can love one more than the other.

"I spend one day and one night with one, and one day one night with the other," says Imran (not his real name), one of the growing number of second generation British Muslim men who have two wives.

Imran was born and brought up in Birmingham, where he runs his own successful business manufacturing Indian desserts.

His first marriage was arranged at the age of 18. However, seven years into the marriage Imran says he fell in love with someone else.

Instead of having an affair he did the honourable thing in the eyes of Islam and married her - thus taking a second wife.

"It's better than a man being married and then having mistresses on the side when we can do it legitimately and it's perfectly allowed," he says.

"God has created us the way we are, that mankind desires more in wealth in sexual desires.

"The main thing is as long as you are 'just' among them, Islamically what can be more right than that, if you are taking care of them, fulfilling their rights," he says.

But Imran did not tell his first wife that he had taken a second wife.


His first wife lives with her in-laws. Imran admits the relationship between his second wife and his parents - who are originally from Pakistan, where monogamy is the norm - is at times strained.

Initially, Imran didn't tell his first wife he had remarried, but eventually she accepted it and now she gets on with his second wife. The wives regularly go shopping together with all his children.

He has four children with his first wife and two with his second wife.

And Imran says a number of his friends now also have second wives too.

Khola Hassan, a lecturer in Islamic Law and volunteer on the UK Sharia Council says she has witnessed a sense of a right to polygamy develop particularly amongst third generation British Muslims.

When she was growing up in Britain 20 years ago she says no-one talked about polygamy as it was incredibly rare. However in the last 15 years she has noticed more polygamous marriages taking place.

It is not known exactly how many British Muslims are involved in polygamous marriages. As they are illegal they are not being officially recorded.

Bigamy is a criminal offence which for those convicted could mean a maximum jail term of up to seven years.

To avoid this, Muslims already legally married instead have a religious ceremony known as a Nikka, which is not registered as a civil marriage, but rather recognises the union in the eyes of Allah.

When a Nikka breaks down or someone wants a divorce, it is the UK Sharia Council some Muslims turn to.

Its 2010 figures show while domestic violence is the most common reason for divorce cited by women, polygamy is now the ninth most common.

But it is not only men who are choosing to live in a polygamous relationship.

Aisha (not her real name) works for the NHS, has her own semi-detached house in Birmingham and is a divorced mother of three girls. Eight months ago she became a second wife after having a Nikka ceremony.

Her first marriage broke up after she discovered her husband had been having an affair. But three years later she had an affair with a married man.


Her new partner wanted to divorce his first wife and marry Aisha. But she had another idea.

"(I said) 'I don't want to be with you 24/7. I appreciate you want to leave your wife but I don't want you to leave your wife'.

"But he said 'I want to be with you. I want to be married to you'. So we sat down and I just said I want to be a second wife."

Her husband had to break the news to his first wife who was very unhappy with the situation but eventually agreed to it rather than divorce.

He agreed he would still support his first wife and their children, but she in turn said she did not want to know anything at all about Aisha, and she certainly did not want to become friends with her.

Aisha's wedding ceremony was very small and held at home, and not all of Aisha's husband's family even know about her.
She says it works well most of the time.

"I have asked my husband if he loves his first wife, and he does say 'I do care about her' and yes he loves her as well.

"That's the only time I do get jealous, but she was there before me, and you know I didn't want to take that away from her.

Muslim woman Some Muslim women want nothing to do with their husband's second wives

"I've not totally taken him away from his first wife."

Khola Hassan's research has shown her that there are predominantly three types of men who are involved in polygamy.

"There are the radicals, the orthodox who think polygamy is compulsory, almost sense of bravado or competition - 'oh he has second wife and I haven't'," she says.

"The second group are those who have been forced into unhappy marriages usually to cousins from abroad, tried to make the marriage work, have children, and don't want a divorce as their parents will never speak to them again, so have taken a second wife.

"Then there are those who have got a parent living abroad and want someone to look after them."

Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra, a member of the Muslim Council of Britain, says polygamy is something Islam permits as it is in the Koran.

He says in the chapter on women, one verse details how men can marry up to four wives at any one given time.

The situation came about in the 14th Century when there was a battle in which many Muslim men were killed, resulting in many widows and orphans.

In order to safeguard their property and wealth it was suggested other men should marry them.

But according to Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra there is more context which some Muslims are choosing to ignore.

The Koran goes on to say if a man cannot treat his wives fairly, justly and equally then he can only marry one woman.

Although Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra is not against polygamy, he believes in reality very few men can treat even their first wife equally and justly.

"The moment it becomes secretive, or you start treating one less well than the other then you are contradicting the conditions that the Koran sets out.

"And if it's purely done for sexual gratification then that in itself is not a valid reason," he says.
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« Reply #1 on: Oct 01, 2011 09:44 AM »

I dont know how people can do this, even if it is allowed. I personally could never ever be a second wife, and I would be devastated if my husband ever wanted a second wife.

But it is still an interesting to read that polygamy is on the rise. I guess times are very different these days.

being equal among everyone must be really difficult though
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« Reply #2 on: Oct 01, 2011 11:52 AM »

I used to wonder why women so much loathe second wife but seldom give a damn about what their partner does outside. I am of the opinion that it takes a lot to do justice to even a single wife not to talk of multiple. But we should not forget, there are thousands of people, who by nature cant be satisfied with one wife. They either take another or follow casual ones! Allah in His mercy, knowing that we are not equal, make it lawful to marry more than one. But no matter one's urges, Allah puts JUSTICE  first, but many overlook it!

"Whoever rejects false deities and believes in Allah has grasped a firm handhold which will never break." Q 2:256"
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« Reply #3 on: Oct 01, 2011 01:22 PM »

salam


I think you'll find that wives who object to being in a plural marriage, do very much give a damn what their husbands get up to with other women.

The man & woman in that article the ones who engaged in an adulterous affair before getting married are not nice people. The woman should know better as she had suffered the same fate herself.





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And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #4 on: Oct 01, 2011 08:38 PM »

"The second group are those who have been forced into unhappy marriages usually to cousins from abroad, tried to make the marriage work, have children, and don't want a divorce as their parents will never speak to them again, so have taken a second wife.''

The saddest part of this is for the woman. If the man is in an unhappy marriage, and chooses a second wife who he has fallen for, I wonder how on earth he can treat them equally? Because loving the second one while being unhappy with the first doesnt exactly scream equality. From the start its unequal and biased. Its just not fair. While the man gets a second chance at love and happiness, what happens to the first wife? Where is her second chance for love, happiness, and a new life?
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« Reply #5 on: Oct 01, 2011 08:55 PM »

Obviously a complicated/complex  issue (it involved humans afterall, and we are born complex creatures - and weak ones I might add - at least those of us with the Y chromosome!), but at the same time - pretty simple - if you can't do justice to both/all, then you've obviously crossed Allah's Limits. I personally, would never even think about it - hormones and all . . .

Also, as this article points out and from the few instances/examples I've come across, the fist wife is usually put at a disadvantage (even if she stays married to the guy) - especially when she has made the most sacrifice (work, children, etc) and then her husband finds someone younger, maybe more attractive, etc. I think we had that other story about the young man in Pak, who married the person his parents wanted and then he met someone else, so he married them at the same time / double ceremony. Wonder how that is working out, but it seems there will always be issues, given that not many marry two at the same time (both fresh, new relationships, etc).

Yikes, that one woman whose husband had an affair, and then she had an affair herself - yeah I agree with Sr. Fozia, there is something intrinsically messed up there, to put it lightly, in terms of the people's character.

I'll have to find out the details, but there was a case here locally, where a sister was helping out with the house/children of a married couple, and then at some point, the husband 'fell in love' or at least developed feelings for the maid and so he took her as a second wife. He told his first wife to not divorce him and some romantic idea that Allah will Reward her, etc . . and also, before the maid married the guy, she had said she was not interested in his finances, etc, etc, but then, once the nikaah was done, she wanted certain things to be put in her name . . . I know I should probably have a more factual background to this, but that gives you an idea . .

It just seems like a big mess to me . . I think it is clear that the only man who was and will ever be capable of being Just to more than 1 (or more than 4) women at a time is none other than Al-Mustapha ( saw) himself.

My 4 cents worth.  Smiley

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« Reply #6 on: Oct 02, 2011 07:17 AM »

wsalam,

hmm we've discussed the 'polygamy' issue so many times i can't even remember if we made it a banned topic or not?

but what really shocks me about this article is how common apparently it is, how easily men are just marrying second wives, their reasons such as 'well my friend got two why shouldn't i' and the prevalence of affairs and cheating going on among muslims@!!!

it's a scary scary world ppl, i think i will go live under my chair now hiding
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« Reply #7 on: Oct 02, 2011 10:01 AM »

salam


I think you'll find that wives who object to being in a plural marriage, do very much give a damn what their husbands get up to with other women.

The man & woman in that article the ones who engaged in an adulterous affair before getting married are not nice people. The woman should know better as she had suffered the same fate herself.


I will agree with you sister. I only know of the sisters in my area. All they care is let them be the only wives to their husband.

"Whoever rejects false deities and believes in Allah has grasped a firm handhold which will never break." Q 2:256"
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« Reply #8 on: Oct 03, 2011 11:04 AM »

Lets cut the fact from the lies. There is nothing about polygamy that makes Muslims living in White countries hate it other then the fact that white people don't like it so it makes Muslim living close to Whites embarrassed of their Islam.
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« Reply #9 on: Oct 03, 2011 12:54 PM »

Are you generalizing all of them? Their doubt every woman dislike being paired. That's natural and even the Sahabah are known with that envy. So expecting a woman to proclaim " I like polygamy" is just waste of thought.

"Whoever rejects false deities and believes in Allah has grasped a firm handhold which will never break." Q 2:256"
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« Reply #10 on: Oct 03, 2011 02:06 PM »

But did they, any of them, object to polygamy?

So this has nothing at all to do with envy. And everything to do with "White men are our superiors, the more we reinterpret our scriptures to fit with their whims and desires, the better we will be".

If we look at the anti-polygamy brigade, their taqleed of the whiteman doesn't end or begin with polygamy. In each and every issue where the rulings of Islam conflict with following the example of whites, they bend,  reinterpret, ignore or abrogate Islam  to please the white master.

Polygamy has a need, especially in the west. People say Muslim men shouldn't marry again, but come out with NO alternative for the many women with no Husbands. What do you propose as a solution for the many Women who convert to Islam?
And when Born Muslim males marry them, what do you propose for the born Muslim females left on the shelf?
If Polygamy is removed from our religion, what do you think it should be replaced by?
Celibacy for the excess women?
Fornication?
"Marrying" Kaffir, Zina by another name.?
Well the last is most pleasing to the Kaffir.
What is it you propose?

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« Reply #11 on: Oct 03, 2011 02:36 PM »

To the unbelievers it's much more okay to have mistresses than marying double. As you said, polygamy is the only sanctifiable way of balancing the unbalance society prevalent in the West and many countries in the world. And I think the article here quite shows that the Western muslims are turning to it. My argument is, even though a sister is in support of polygamy knowing that it's lawful and even encouraged in some cases according to our religion, deep in her heart she wont love to be in a polygamous home. We shouldnt belame her for that because it's her nature. And frankly speaking, those that interprete the Quran to imply that polygamy is impracticable wrt to the conditions outlined in the Book, are with no doubt far from the understandings of our pious predecessors.

"Whoever rejects false deities and believes in Allah has grasped a firm handhold which will never break." Q 2:256"
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« Reply #12 on: Oct 03, 2011 03:59 PM »

Bro in near enough ever case of polygamy where I know the people involved as opposed to reading about them in the Kaffir press. The first wife herself told the husband to marry a second and found the second for him.
Only reason we see it as out of the norm, is because we live in a society where it is deemed out of the norm.
Many women view the addition of a wife as an additional pair of hands. A friend, a companion, a sister in Islam.
Instead of viewing the the husbands nights spent with the other as a loss, they view it as a rest. A relaxation form responsibilities.
There is also a fixation with the first wife, what about the rights of the additional?
And the envy felt by women left on the shelf?
Women who will have no nights, no husband, not even a shared one if the verses of the Quran are ripped out, and the Sunnah ignored.
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« Reply #13 on: Oct 06, 2011 06:49 PM »

A little humor for this thread? rotfl

(and a very WEIRD account of the way some mormon's go about polygamy.  Makes one thankful that Islam sets down limits, conditions and equality in all its rules protecting women.)
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« Reply #14 on: Oct 06, 2011 07:57 PM »

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy That is a funny cartoon sis Jannah, thanks for the light moment.


As for Moderatesufi, I think that no matter how good of a muslim a woman is, it is very hard to share a husband. We have all read stories of Hazrat Aishah, even though being the Prophets favorite wife, did experience boughts of jealousy at times. It is natural, and doesnt detract from her character, as she was able to rise above it, but even she, being one of the best Muslim women found polygamy difficult at times.

All these emotions are natural, and having them isnt bad, its how you react to them and rise above them that counts. I dont believe that western attitude really affects emotions/opinions of polygamy issues.
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« Reply #15 on: Oct 07, 2011 10:26 AM »



 I dont believe that western attitude really affects emotions/opinions of polygamy issues.

Well, I do.
It is only natural considering the white civilisation is now the dominant civilisation. Human beings have a tendency to follow and emulate the might.
Might is right as the saying goes.
So when they invaded and colonised our countries, we followed them. And emulated the culture and traditions of the white masters.
When some of us were carried to their countries as slaves, we had no choice but to adapt to the white ways. It was there ways or their whips.
And when some of us settled in their countries, again we adapted to the white ways. It was that or being ridiculed with, "If you don't want to live by our ways go back to where you came from".

The example you used was unrelated to polygamy.
But its meaning is twisted to cover that by some because they can not find other ways to discourage people from that Sunnah which has a need in this time.
I actually view comments like that as a borderline insult of  the umm ul Mumineen
The Peophet PBH is the best of all creation. It is no surprise that Ayesha ra, the rest of his wives and family and the rest of the companions ra and the believers in general could never get enough of his company. And they could never get enough of serving him.
To say that in her case this attitude was unrelated to his pbh exalted status, but due to petty jealousy between wives is not very respectful.
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« Reply #16 on: Oct 07, 2011 06:08 PM »

wsalam,

About your whole 'white ppl' rant...  You do know there are 'white ppl' that are Muslim? Bosnian ppl, Turkish ppl, Chechnyan, etc etc, tons of blonde, blue eyed 'white ppl' born Muslim and tons of converts all over the world are whiter than white. Islam teaches us not to be racist so let's drop that description.

As for following "non-Muslim" ways.... Newsflash: It's not non-Muslim to have one wife. Monogamy is the default for 99% of Muslims. It's a choice amongst the permissible.

I also disagree that we have a need for polygamy in this day and age. There may be "special cases", but in general polygamy is not needed for Muslims to live and practice their Deen in this day and age.

About Aisha radiahu a

You said: "...could never get enough of his company. And they could never get enough of serving him."

That is jealousy! Every wife in the world would have that same feeling for their husband of wanting to spend more time and being with him. Yes our beloved Mother also had this feeling too because she was human and that she loved the Prophet (s) so much. Nothing petty about it.

Don't forget the Hadiths that describe:

- that she dropped a dish that another wife prepared for him (s) on purpose, that he liked especially, because she was jealous.
- that she was jealous of Safiyah and described her as 'beautiful as a fairy'.
- that she said there was no one she was more jealous of than Khadija (ra) and one day said something disparaging about her and the prophet (s) gave his famous speech about loving Khadija and her supporting him when no one else did.

Anyway just some examples.

Don't take the Sunnah and the Seerah and try to bend it in order to support your views. Just uncool. They were jealous AND the prophet (s) loved one more than the others even if he treated them all equally. Those are things a woman going into polygamy should keep in mind.

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« Reply #17 on: Oct 08, 2011 12:30 PM »

It is laughable that you use the existence of white Muslims to side track from my criticism of people using the white colonialists and masters as an example to emulate.

When the colonised and the brainwashed, uncle tom type Muslims insist on following the European example. If they followed the example of the Bosnian Ulima who have advised Muslims in Bosnia to practice Polygamy due to all the Muslim males slaughtered by the White Christians than then that would be a good thing. But the people who insist on following white civilisation do not include white Muslims in that. Just as the white faces of the Bosnians and Chechen didn't protect them from the slaughter. What they mean to follow is what the masters tell us we must follow. When the White Masters tell us, Muslims must submit to the European Judo-Christian civilisation and over Islam.

What I deem as racist, is to assume that white civilisation, which in the past was called the ways of the white man. But has now been replaced by the more politically correct term, "Europe's Judo Christian civilisation" is superior to all other ways because it has been created by Whites who are superior to other races. But they like to say It has been Created by European Judo-Christians who are superior to others which means the same thing.

As for following "non-Muslim" ways.... Newsflash: It's not non-Muslim to have one wife. Monogamy is the default for 99% of Muslims. It's a choice amongst the permissible.

What I am saying is many of the 99 forbid themselves from doing it due to being brainwashed by the dominant civilisation.
What you might call the ways of the Americans, Europeans or Judo-Christian civilisation, but I call the ways of the whites. Because that is what is really meant.

Yes it is a choice amongst the permissible, the permissible. And Permissible is the key word here. And the key issue here is people trying to reinterpret Islam, to fit in with European-Judo-Christians civilisation, but how I would describe more accurately, the ways of the white masters.

I also disagree that we have a need for polygamy in this day and age.
Jannah you know as well as I do, that much more women where you are, as well as I am convert to Islam than men.
What do you propose to deal with them?
Fasting?
Abstinence or something more Harram?
When a born Muslim man marries one of them, that means there is one less born Muslim man for born Muslim women. What do you propose as a solution for those born Muslim Women?
Other then, proposing slogans like "we don't know her circumstances" that was said when I criticized Hilary Clinton's pet Muslim for marrying a Jew?
Well that is the key issue here, when Hallal is attacked, the Harram, Muslim women marrying Kaffir is defended.
So it is never a "We don't know his circumstances" when a Man marries a second wife, instead it is a "they can never be treated equally". And it is never a "that can never be allowed" when a Muslim women marries a Kaffir, instead it is always "we don't know her circumstances".
Well that is it, Polygamy, or Muslim women Marrying Kaffir, Which is it that is Hallal?
 It isn't special cases. There is always a case.
In wars there is a case due to dead men. In Kaffir Countries there is a case due to more women converting to Islam than men. And even in other places there is a case due to some men not being able to support a single wife while others can support multiples.
Even when None of these apply, it being Hallal is the case. If a man wants more women, and women are willing to marry him a married man over other less desirable single men, that is the case, and the only case that matters.

And Jannah, I know the Hadith. It is the interpretations of it, often used by Missionaries and deviants that I disagree with.
My point was the reason for the above actions was his PBH's exalted status.
And wanting to be close to the Messenger of Allah a,d the best of creation because he pbh was the Messinger of Allah and the best of Creation.
Not the fact that he was a shared Husband.

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« Reply #18 on: Oct 08, 2011 10:41 PM »

Something you don't seem to get is that Monogamy is not following the "white man". It's a choice people make for their own reasons that they've been making for thousands of years, without any influence from the "white man" or other "civilizations". No one "forbids themselves" and no one is brainwashed.

This is the problem when people try to make the world black and white. ie the white man kaffir are brainwashed and have only one wife, the muslim man is enlightened and following the sunnah and going to jannah if he has more than one. If he doesn't he's a brainwashed kaffir right?  Roll Eyes It doesn't work like that.

Also it's quite racist and unIslamic to judge and label people on the basis of their skin color.

There's more than enough men for women, the numbers are not that skewed in the world. In Western countries I'd even say there are more available single Muslim men because they come here for work and education.

So jealousy from the Prophet's (s) wives was OK? because it was him, but not from ordinary women. Hmmm that doesn't make sense at all. There will always be jealousy. That is the nature of the human being. Whether umm al mu'mineen or not.

If you're trying to advocate polygamy here you're not doing a good job of it. Maybe one should go out and try it themselves before trying to get others to.
blackrose
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« Reply #19 on: Oct 10, 2011 03:44 PM »

salaam

wow I would never ever want that. Just does not settle with me.. I think its kind of gross.
I would rather not be married
Unless of course its Hamza Yusuf which he is probly too good too even do that. Yeah I don't see it as a good thing. I see it as hurting someone. Unless of course the first wife wants it..

I also think a divorced or widowed woman should not be so selfish to become a second wife unless the first approves it, because I doubt she would like it if she was the first wife.

There are other ways to help!
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« Reply #20 on: Oct 10, 2011 05:56 PM »

wsalam,

but what really shocks me about this article is how common apparently it is, how easily men are just marrying second wives, their reasons such as 'well my friend got two why shouldn't i' and the prevalence of affairs and cheating going on among muslims@!!!



 salam
I had the same thoughts, jannah. What are the intentions here - and why are married Muslim ppl's needs not being met?

The author writes about the context - there is more context which some Muslims are choosing to ignore.

The Prophet, peace be upon him is my example and his circumstances are key to how I learn the meaning.

The wisdom of the message is lost when an amateur decides he is going to be just like Rasullullah (peace be upon him) and bring more people into him and his wife's marriage. Unless men are scarce and one's city is at war due to men losing their lives in jihad, there is no comparing a modern day UK population or political scenario that comes anywhere close.

I have a tendency to remind myself of the Prophet's (peace be upon him) first wife, Khadijah. During their long marriage, the economy wasn't too bad, trade was thriving, she was wealthy, he was a good and trustworthy worker, no reason to marry a second wife as women's husbands were not being killed on a large scale.

Now I flash ahead to today's reality, today's economy and today's hustlers falling in love and chasing their fantasies and saying anything to justify their behaviour as legit and God permitted, furiously cutting and pasting their proof into cyberspace. I can only sit here and wonder what inspires this way of thinking but frankly, it doesn't show much in the way of thinking as it does reacting out of context.

Just curious how a sister with the same needs as her husband would deal with her 'time' being cut in half in thirds, or quartered?. Fast more, perhaps take another cold shower?  shame

The unity of all, perceptible to even bystanders, is the Oneness that inspired it, a sea without shores, subject me to this sea.
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« Reply #21 on: Jul 31, 2012 12:37 PM »

If Allah (swt) allows it, we should not question it. Period.
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