// US Supreme Court Rules on "Obamacare"
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tahirah
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« on: Jun 29, 2012 04:21 AM »



Big news for the US  Shocked ...I had no idea which way they would rule. This will have a huge impact on US health care and the upcoming Presidential/Congressional elections

tahirah




Cumberland Times-News
June 28, 2012

Health care law upheld
MARK SHERMAN
Associated Press

— WASHINGTON — America’s historic health care overhaul, derided by Republicans as the intrusive, costly “Obamacare,” narrowly survived an election-year battle at the Supreme Court Thursday with the improbable help of conservative Chief Justice John Roberts.

The 5-4 ruling now makes it certain that major health care changes will move ahead, touching virtually every American’s life. And Democrats, who have learned to accept if not love the GOP label for the law, heartily praised the decision.

But the ruling also gave Republicans unexpected ammunition to energize supporters for the fall campaign against President Barack Obama, the bill’s champion — and for next year’s vigorous efforts to repeal the law as a new federal tax

Roberts’ vote, along with those of the court’s four liberal justices, preserved the largest expansion of the nation’s social safety net in more than 45 years, including the hotly debated core requirement that nearly everyone have health insurance or pay a penalty. The aim is to extend coverage to more than 30 million people who now are uninsured

The decision meant the huge overhaul, still taking effect, could proceed and pick up momentum over the next several years, with an impact on the way that countless Americans receive and pay for their personal medical care.

Breaking with the other conservative justices, Roberts wrote the judgment that allows the law to go forward. He explained at length the court’s view of the insurance mandate as a valid exercise of Congress’ authority to “lay and collect taxes.” The administration estimates that roughly 4 million people will pay the penalty rather than buy insurance.

Roberts, appointed by Republican President George W. Bush, opposed by a young Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois and much-criticized by Democrats in recent years, sided with his court’s liberals on a major case for the second time this week as the justices concluded their 2011-12 term.

In the health care case, Congress had referred to a penalty, not a tax, on people who don’t obtain insurance. But Roberts said the court would not get hung up on labels. Among other indications it is a tax, Roberts said, “the payment is collected solely by the IRS through the normal means of taxation.”

“Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness,” Roberts said.

[the rest of the article is available here: http://times-news.com/local/x546488099/Health-care-law-upheld ]
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« Reply #1 on: Jun 29, 2012 04:36 AM »

Yayyy for healthcare in the US!!!!!!!!!!! I for one think it's great once it all gets into place!!

Two things I absolutely love:

1. You cannot be denied healthcare for previous conditions (which always happens to poor people  Angry)

2. People over 25 can be put on their parents healthcare.


Not so much:

1. You have to pay a penalty if you don't have healthcare. A lot of people are just in that middle position where they have some type of work but not enough to qualify for free stuff and yet if they don't have healthcare they'll be penalized...
tahirah
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« Reply #2 on: Jun 29, 2012 05:02 AM »

I think the hope is that with more people in the health care pool, it will be more affordable for people in the middle. Insha Allah it works out that way. Access to health care should not be so hard here
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« Reply #3 on: Jun 29, 2012 10:34 AM »

living in a country with free healthcare, I'm so shocked to hear a place like the US has an electorate who are actively against it.

Health care and education are two things which should be accessible to everyone regardless.

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #4 on: Jun 29, 2012 02:53 PM »

salam

yes Fozia, the system in the states is different.  In Canada, all citizens, permanant residents and until recently, even refugees,  have access to health care, but it is not free, it comes from  our tax money.

The current Conservative government here is slowly adopting the US model and maybe few years down the line we won't have a "free" health care system in Canada anymore.  It is very costly and basically 45% of our taxes go to support health care.  We have one of the highest income tax rates in world. 

wassalam
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« Reply #5 on: Jun 29, 2012 04:05 PM »

They system works differently here in the UK, we contribute towards the health service thro our pay via national insurance contributions (I think possibly council tax also pays towards the local hospitals, GP's) then the companies employing us must also make a contribution per employee(its been a while since I did payroll so I'm a bit hazy on the rates), it's seperate from income tax and is capped to a very low rate (literally pennies annually).

I assume that the 45% is from your tax and you are not taxed at a rate of 45% on your income?
People can't be left to die because they can't afford health care, it's barbaric. Not in rich developed countries it should be partially subsidised by government expenditure.

Altho a lot of companies have their own private health insurance plans for employees and the wealthy can afford to go private too most of us use the national health service regardless of income. When I was recently very ill I had reason to be hugely greatful for our NHS system altho my company pays for private healthcare, when I used the private health care plan one look at the invoice my employer picked up on my behalf showed me exactly how lucky I am Alhumdulillah to live  in the UK. I can see it being a case of either putting food on the table or dying slowly of a serious illness if the state did not provide healthcare....not a choice I ever expect to have to be faced with!

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #6 on: Jun 29, 2012 08:26 PM »

Both as a citizen and a doctor, who hopes to be a part of the health system relatively soon iA (though it may not be to the (financial) advantage of certain medical practitioners but  from what I've read so far, it has far more pro's than cons, especially when it comes to getting patients that otherwise wouldn't have access to basic check-ups and medications.

Sis Fozia - wonder if you've seen Michael Moore's film Sicko, which compared our system with the NHS mostly. It sure made the NHS or similar system look attractive for us Americans.

Yes, agreed, the two things that SHOULD be affordable in general, healthcare and education, is where America is lacking compared to other nations. People who need healthcare and those that deserve, need and should have a good education, just can't afford it.

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jannah
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« Reply #7 on: Jun 30, 2012 04:14 AM »

The thing people have to understand is that America has a huge protestant work ethic. We believe everyone should work and live off their own labor. We don't like it when other people are living off our labor!! and getting everything free. So things like how the gov't has medicaid and medicare and welfare and food stamps is really hated by people. Social security btw is only available to those who have paid a certain amount in, over a certain number of years. Everyone else is denied. So paying for "other ppl's" healthcare really irks people.

Secondly America is so focused on the "individual". Everyone should have the individual freedom to do whatever they want. To go where they want, to have guns, to remain silent, to sue people. So the thing that's annoying about this plan is that people are FORCED to buy healthcare. Even if they can't afford it cuz they fall into those weird middle brackets. in 2014 if they will pay a $100 penalty if they don't have healthcare and in 2016 they'll have to pay $700. So now they HAVE to get healthcare which btw starts at $500/month. They say more people will be covered thus making it more affordable. But we all know insurance companies are really out for all they can get and don't have any interest in making healthcare more affordable especially when everyone HAS to have it. They also say the plan will expand medicaid but I dunno...

So those are my concerns about it... over and out  Cool
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« Reply #8 on: Jun 30, 2012 11:37 AM »

Assalaamualikum,

Quote
So now they HAVE to get healthcare which btw starts at $500/month.

$500/month?that is awfully huge sum to be paid especially by the middle income group.I am not totally aware of the US rules  in detail, but doesn't the government already deduct a sufficient 30% and above of the income tax of the ppl there?
Won't that suffice?
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« Reply #9 on: Jun 30, 2012 12:19 PM »

Assalaamualikum,

Quote
So now they HAVE to get healthcare which btw starts at $500/month.

$500/month?that is awfully huge sum to be paid especially by the middle income group.I am not totally aware of the US rules  in detail, but doesn't the government already deduct a sufficient 30% and above of the income tax of the ppl there?
Won't that suffice?

That's why I always say..SAUDI ARABIA!!!! Grin Tax free salary, company sponsored medical benefits, housing allowance and sometimes even a car! And a society with very little fitnah. But, sadly, freedom of expression matters more to most people.
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« Reply #10 on: Jun 30, 2012 03:11 PM »

mubaraka yup the gov't takes 1/3 pretty much for average ppl, not sure if that is more or less for ppl who make a lot more or make a lot less. where does that money go? who knows??!

akhan lol jail has the same things... free housing, food, healthcare, even activities Tongue

if you toe the line in all aspects in saudi and live out the life they want you to then u'll live a pretty decent life and the end.

but there are some serious things that are going on there that are wrong. i wouldn't be able to just sit there and live out my life and do nothing. i really don't think this is the message of islam even. yes we pray and fast, but islam is more than that, it's also about righting the wrongs in the world and making it better for others. also life for women is horrible. i'm sure this is the american in me, but things like having a big house with maids and a chauffer are not important to me at all. it's more important for women to be able to be part of society, to be educated and contribute to it.
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« Reply #11 on: Jun 30, 2012 11:01 PM »

I am SO with you on that last paragraph Sis J! Preach it sista'!  Grin

I do understand the concerns regarding Obamacare, again, always good and bad sides to these things, it can't be 100% A-OK of course. This whole thing of forcing people to have insurance does seem a bit much/not so awesome-sounding, yet when you hear about under- and uninsured people who can't get their medications or can't get treatment for long-term illnesses, it make me really favor some type of healthcare where everyone can be covered to some extent. It will take time but I do really feel it's a good thing for patients in an overall sense.

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« Reply #12 on: Jun 30, 2012 11:45 PM »

When Sis Jannah comes to London, maybe you can add to this thread as you will be in a position to judge between the US and UK systems.

Seriously the NHS with all it's foibles is amazing.

The poor do not die from treatable illnesses thro lack of healthcare, the seriously sick, elderly and the very young are prioritised.

I don't mind contributing towards those who are unable to pay a contribution thro their taxes, I'm in a privileged postion alhumdulillah.

Sometimes in these instances I look at those who have less than I do and think but there for the grace of God go I.

I've recently been diagnosed with a life long (possibly degenerative disease), it's not my fault, if it gets bad I could be rendered seriously physically disabled. There's no guarantee that I will have the lifestyle I currently enjoy and I would be devastated if at a stage where I'm so poverty stricken I couldn't afford medication I was refused it on the grounds of not contributing tax money to it.

Surely society as a whole has responsibilities towards one another, what a horrible world we would live in if we only ever looked out for our own wellbeing.

The government needs to match dollar for dollar the money each individual contributes to their health insurance so they're not lacking in funds if they need treatment. Possibly on a means tested scale so the wealthy take care of their own bills and the poorer get their insurance subsidised.

There must absolutely be some responsibility of the government for the general electorate. After all they can afford to invade several different countries for decades they can damn well take better care of their citizens.

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #13 on: Jul 01, 2012 04:00 AM »

Salaam,

I think this is a good step in the right direction. It's not a perfect plan by far, but it's something. Has anyone come up with a better plan, not yet. Hopefully this will lead to better things. Sadly even after all this I heard that state budgets that fund our public Medicare system are already spending about 60% on healthcare. Perhaps there will be some sort of govt subsidy to help offset that some. God knows.


My two cents. No system is perfect.
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