// Employee Sacked for Her Attractiveness: Modest dressing would have saved her.
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Author Topic: Employee Sacked for Her Attractiveness: Modest dressing would have saved her.  (Read 557 times)
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« on: Dec 23, 2012 08:01 AM »


Seven judges believed the employer's action is justified. I also believe same. Isn't this a justification of Islamic (and other religions') modest way of dressing? No matter your beauty or your attractiveness, when you dress appropriately, you save your self and your colleagues from temptations. I once told a classmate that I couldn't continue to tutor her one-on-one while she dressed as she used to.

http://news.yahoo.com/court-irresistible-workers-fired-203924415--abc-news-topstories.html


 An Iowa dentist was within his legal rights when he fired a longtime employee he found to be "irresistible" and a threat to his marriage, the State Supreme Court unanimously ruled.

The seven justices, all male, affirmed on Friday a lower court's decision in favor of Dr. James Knight, who terminated Melissa Nelson after employing her for 10 and a half years as a dental assistant.

"We do think the Iowa Supreme Court got it completely right," said Stuart Cochrane, an attorney for James Knight. "Our position has always been Mrs. Nelson was never terminated because of her gender, she was terminated because of concerns her behavior was not appropriate in the workplace. She's an attractive lady. Dr. Knight found her behavior and dress to be inappropriate."

The two never had a sexual relationship or sought one, according to court documents, however in the final year and a half of Nelson's employment, Knight began to make comments about her clothing being too tight or distracting.

"Dr. Knight acknowledges he once told Nelson that if she saw his pants bulging, she would know her clothing was too revealing," the justices wrote.

Six months before Nelson was fired, she and her boss began exchanging text messages about work and personal matters, such as updates about each of their children's activities, the justices wrote.

The messages were mostly mundane, but Nelson recalled one text she received from her boss asking "how often she experienced an orgasm."

Nelson did not respond to the text and never indicated that she was uncomfortable with Knight's question, according to court documents.

 Soon after, Knight's wife, Jeanne, who also works at the practice, found out about the text messaging and ordered her husband to fire Nelson.

The couple consulted with a senior pastor at their church and he agreed that Nelson should be terminated in order to protect their marriage, Cochrane said.

On Jan. 4, 2010, Nelson was summoned to a meeting with Knight while a pastor was present. Knight then read from a prepared statement telling Nelson she was fired.

"Dr. Knight felt like for the best interest of his marriage and the best interest of hers to end their employment relationship," Cochrane said.

Knight acknowledged in court documents that Nelson was good at her job and she, in turn, said she was generally treated with respect.

When Nelson's husband tried to reason with Knight, the dentist told him he "feared he would have an affair with her down the road if he did not fire her."

Paige Fiedler, Nelson's attorney, said in a statement to ABC News affiliate KCRG that she was "appalled" by the ruling.

"We are appalled by the Court's ruling and its failure to understand the nature of gender bias.," she wrote.

"Although people act for a variety of reasons, it is very common for women to be targeted for discrimination because of their sexual attractiveness or supposed lack of sexual attractiveness. That is discrimination based on sex," Fiedler wrote. "Nearly every woman in Iowa understands this because we have experienced it for ourselves."

"Whoever rejects false deities and believes in Allah has grasped a firm handhold which will never break." Q 2:256"
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« Reply #1 on: Dec 23, 2012 08:49 AM »

'He acknowledged he would have an affair with her down the road' I don't think so, sounds like she ignored his advance and his wife is blaming the woman when it's her husband who needs to lower his gaze.

His behaviour is sexual harassment. The sacked nurse would have won a massive payout in the UK for unfair dismissal and sexual harassment.

What's he going to do, only hire unattractive or male dental nurses from now on?

I hope the nurse has a higher court she could take it too.

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #2 on: Dec 23, 2012 09:00 AM »

So  you are in support of her! I dont know how you expect him to lower his gaze with somebody he works with routinely! He was trying to deal with the human part of himself and for his knowledge of his weakness he advised her to adjust. Gurding our chastity is a team work. We help one another by doing our part.

Quote
The two never had a sexual relationship or sought one, according to court documents, however in the final year and a half of Nelson's employment, Knight began to make comments about her clothing being too tight or distracting.

"Whoever rejects false deities and believes in Allah has grasped a firm handhold which will never break." Q 2:256"
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« Reply #3 on: Dec 23, 2012 09:32 AM »

Considering that in western society there's practically no modesty scale, should we even be bothered about these things?

If they were muslim, then we could probably say that the blame falls on both of them, the woman for dressing scantily and the man for making advances.
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« Reply #4 on: Dec 23, 2012 10:39 AM »

Considering that in western society there's practically no modesty scale, should we even be bothered about these things?

We may care since we can't ignore the fact that we live in such society. It affects everyone and verdicts like this will at least change attitude of some people irrespective of their belief. And I agree with you that on the scale of shari'ah they have both crossed the line.

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« Reply #5 on: Dec 23, 2012 11:21 AM »

He wasn't advising her to change her dress, he was making letcherous advances, she was ignoring them.

He could have taken her aside and said her dress was inappropriate, he didn't. His comments were of a sexual nature, he was harassing a junior employee.

Dental assistant wear a uniform btw, so she wasn't turning up in home clothes.

I doubt she was dressed any differently from the other females working there.

He's a letcherous creep and a threat to any women working for him.

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #6 on: Dec 23, 2012 01:30 PM »

It seems you are reading the circumstances critically than I am Auntijee. I am beginning to think that way too.

"Whoever rejects false deities and believes in Allah has grasped a firm handhold which will never break." Q 2:256"
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« Reply #7 on: Dec 23, 2012 01:44 PM »

Bro it's a two way thing.

Your circumstances are completely different, you were respectful & told your student factually that her dress was inappropriate.

This man was so far from respectful or wanting to avert lewdness.

I've worked in mixed environments for years, there are people who would behave badly no matter what a woman wears.

The Islamic stance places responsibility on both the man and the woman.


And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #8 on: Dec 23, 2012 04:18 PM »

I agree with Fozia.  The dentist's behaviour was inappropriate and could certainly be classified as sexual harassment.

How does the phrase "bulging pants" insinuate itself into a supervisor/employee discussion about proper work attire?  This is counselling her on her choice of clothing? It was an effort to save his marriage? Really???

The article also states that they texted each other frequently and that the dentist enquired about her orgasms. Sexual harassment, plain and simple.

That said, the woman in this case should not have gotten involved with texting him casually, especially when it became clear that this guy has no concept of "boundaries".

Sadah wrote:
Quote
We may care since we can't ignore the fact that we live in such society. It affects everyone and verdicts like this will at least change attitude of some people irrespective of their belief.

I doubt it. The verdict puts all of the responsibility/blame on the employee.  The dentist's conduct was inappropriate and he's being hailed as some sort of "family guy" for firing her.

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« Reply #9 on: Dec 23, 2012 05:02 PM »

Salaam
I would like to agree with sister Fozia on this. When did this man realise that the assistant was not dressing properly. He has been with the nurse for 10 yrs & only realised this after the wife saw the text messages.
Am not backing the nurses dressing but its unfair. Why not call the nurse and say I don't like your dressing do something about it. But no firing her.
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« Reply #10 on: Dec 23, 2012 05:53 PM »

I clearly got your point now. If at all he meant to be upright, he should have explained that to her vividly within first month of the employment.

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« Reply #11 on: Dec 23, 2012 07:54 PM »

Boy! I'm least bothered about this. You guys carry on arguing Grin


It seems you are reading the circumstances critically than I am Auntijee. I am beginning to think that way too.

Since when did you turn into a desi? "Auntijee"? Cheesy

She sure can scare some people into "respecting" her Grin
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« Reply #12 on: Dec 24, 2012 06:38 AM »


Since when did you turn into a desi? "Auntijee"? Cheesy

She sure can scare some people into "respecting" her Grin
I musnt be a desi to understand who Aunti Fozia is!  A solidarity for you guys though. You think anybody would want to be a desi whence the deses have no choice when it comes to some important things in life? Not to talk of the Hydribad deses.. Wink  fez

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« Reply #13 on: Dec 25, 2012 06:07 AM »

Salam,

I was curious about what she looked like and looked it up! I think she's cute n blond and I do think sometimes it doesn't matter what u wear, ur attracted to the person. And he was obviously very attracted. I think he realized the seriousness when the wife found out so he fired her. I can't blame him for wanting to save his marriage. While we can say he should have lowered his gaze n she should have dressed more appropriately, not sure how u can stop n extreme attraction to someone while being around them all the time!!
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« Reply #14 on: Dec 25, 2012 12:13 PM »

This man will have an affair, just this time the woman he picked was not interested & he got caught.

She'd worked for him ten years & suddenly now he finds fault in her dress.

He was the one making suggestive & lewd comments which she ignored. You can't tell your boss to go boil his head.

Everyone ever caught having or starting an affair almost always blames it on the other person. Or their spouse. It's never their fault.

Attractive people exist & one is likely to come across them throughout life, we don't go around making sexual overtures to everyone we find attractive, in this case the man was taking advantage of his position of authority over a junior employee.
Any boss of mine tried this on would find himself on the wrong end of an extremely expensive law suit & subject to a restraining order on strength of the text messages.

It's not a crime to be attractive.

Islam does not place responsibility on one person, both people are responsible for their actions. And it's not like she was dressing unusually for the culture & environment she lives in.

The man behaved abominably right from the off, it was due to the woman's lack of response that there wasn't an all out affair happening.


And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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