// [FILM] Unmosqued The Movie
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« Reply #25 on: Mar 15, 2013 03:17 AM »

OK, I guess I was mistaken, but she dresses modestly..hair is covered, but maybe not the hijab by definition. I'm not saying I agree with everything she said or says on her site, etc...in the end, it's not FOR YOU to say whether those of the LGBTQ who identify as Muslims are worthy of your label of brother or sister. They say La ilaha ilallah and Muhamaadu Rasullah and last time I checked, that is all it takes to be Muslm, according to our Prophet. They are not harming you, so just let them be and let them have their relationship with God that they are pursuing...yes, we don't agree with certain lifestyle choices that they may have, but as far as them and God, it's just that, them and God. Just as with others within Islam that we may disagree with, we know and they know that Allah will decide in the end, whether to show His Mercy to them. Do you know that He will or won't? 100% sure?   At the very "least", they are human beings - so they deserve respect - do you not love the Creation of Allah? Anyways, I'm done here.

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« Reply #26 on: Mar 15, 2013 09:41 AM »

astagfirullah
Sorry bro, I am lost for words.
I can't even reply to what you said.
Wow, I might do so later on today when it sinks in.
But right now, I'm in deep shock.
I've heard a lot of strange things on the internet, but seriously this goes way beyond.
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« Reply #27 on: Mar 15, 2013 10:48 AM »

Wow, I thought it sinked in and I would be able to reply now, but I still cant.
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« Reply #28 on: Mar 15, 2013 11:29 AM »

I still can't believe anyone would ever say such a thing.
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« Reply #29 on: Mar 15, 2013 04:00 PM »

I will try to keep what I write to a minimum to stop the thread getting side tracked. But I know Muslims in America are a lot more liberal, and Muslims in the UK are a lot more tradition but bro, what you said is extreme even by American standards.

If someone did what the people of Lut did in the privy of their own homes. No one would no about it so that isn't an issue in this context.
When it comes to LGBTQ inclusiveness in Musjids is things that are done for heterosexual relationships should also be done for homosexual ones.
If someone considers homosexual activities as Halal, they are not Muslim even if they say Shahada, just as Qadyanis and the nation of Islam are not Muslim even though they say Shahada.
The context of Homosexual inclusion in Musjids is not, someone who may have secretly done some Harram stuff praying Jummah. Because if they have secretly done it, or even openly done it outside the Musjid no one will know, so no one will stop them praying.
The context of the LGB in LGBTQ equality in Musjids is, if a Musjid does Marriages for Muslim men to marry Muslim women. They will also do Marriages for Muslim men to marry Muslim men, and Muslim women to Marry Muslim women.
The context of the T in LGBTQ is Muslim men wearing the dress of Muslim women being allowed to use the prayer halls of Muslim women, as well as their toilets, Wadu rooms and showers.
When it comes to the Q in LGBTQ, I don't know what it means, and I don't want to know.

But all this is just an attempt to destroy Islam in the same way Christianity and Judaism in their revealed forms were destroyed.
I Don't view all this as a single issue. I view it together with all else that is happening.
So what the lady says about how badly Musjids are run is viewed, in the context of her views of Hijab and her views that for a Musjid to be run properly it needs to do for homosexuals what they do for heterosexuals.
As I mentioned before, this does not mean a man who may have done some harram stuff praying in the men's hall. Because no one can discriminate against him because no one knows.
What it means is the Imam carrying out marriage services for men to marry men, and for men who dress as women to be able to pray next to the sisters as a woman.

I do not believe this has anything to do with prayer spaces for women. Because when there is a Musjid with a women's prayer hall, they go there and demonstrate that women should be able to pray in the same hall as men.
And in Musjids where women pray in the back of the hall where men pray in the front, they complain that they should be able to pray side by side, and even that a woman should be able to lead the prayer.

And I call America the great saton, because that is exactly what it is.
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« Reply #30 on: Apr 04, 2013 04:46 AM »

http://muslimmatters.org/2013/04/03/unmosqued-unmasked-a-critical-review-of-the-unmosqued-trailer/

Criticism of the trailer (NOT the unreleased documentary).
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« Reply #31 on: Apr 04, 2013 07:30 PM »

Good article, only just gave it a quick read. I think I will read it properly later on today and maybe respond.

Thing that I like a lot is that attack on the attack on Immigrant Imams.
If we took Imam out of it, and said the same about immigrant doctors, dentists, shop workers it would be seen exactly as what it is, racism.
We can not expect others to respect us if we do not respect ourselves.
Why can't whites say "No immigrant teachers", if Muslims themselves say "No immigrant imams".
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« Reply #32 on: Apr 08, 2013 12:37 PM »

ws,

The criticism article is interesting but it's missing the whole ball game. There is a problem in our mosques. Why keep defending them, just because??Or to defend those who built and run them. Sure that was all well and good, but what was the point. At this rate the only people who go to the mosques will be them at 80-90 years old!!
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« Reply #33 on: Apr 08, 2013 03:39 PM »

 salam

I think that what the article is criticizing is the seeming attack on elderly/'traditional' imams. I do think that the documentary looks a little skewed. On one hand, yes, there IS a big problem with our mosques that we must solve and must be addressed. But pushing the blame on people and making it all sensational isn't the solution.
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« Reply #34 on: Apr 08, 2013 03:43 PM »

80-90 year olds have as much right to use one as anyone else.
If you want a mosque run in your way, make one that is run in a way you like.
If there is a demand for musjids that function in the way you like, than you will find it easy to raise money and man hours to construct it.
If you do pay for and construction that functions in the way you like, 80-90 year olds will have no right to attack the way your Musjid functions. Just as you have no right to attack the way their Musjid functions.

There are places where the Musjids are so packed in Jummah that people pray out in the streets. Last Jummah I saw exactly that in East London. Musjid was completely packed, so was the forecourt and a pavement outside the Musjid.
If you think all the Musjids are so badly run. And young people want them run differently. Why don't you get your young people together and make a Musjid, run the way you like?
There is a need there. So new Musjids will be built there. If not by you, run the way you want, they will be built by others, run the way they want. And when they build them, with their own money and their own time you can complain about how wrong they have done everything. And how you could have done things so much better, well if you could be bothered?
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« Reply #35 on: Apr 08, 2013 03:57 PM »

http://muslimmatters.org/2013/04/08/unmosqued-remosqued-western-masajid-and-the-search-for-community/

Ta-da! A new article on MuslimMatters addressing the issue at hand very carefully and MUCH better than anything I've seen before.

P.S. Brother islamicsocks, no one is saying 80 year olds can't go to the masjid.  Huh? And I think that it is very presumptuous of you to constantly attack Sister Jannah - how do you know that she has not been involved in mosque work before? In fact I believe she already said that people try very hard to put their views across on how a mosque should be built/run, but often the voices of a couple of people drown out the rest, over and over again.

I don't think that this is necessarily about how many people pray at the mosque. Loads of people may come for Jumuah, but who comes at any other time? In the States the mosque has a very important function as a community center in a land where Muslims are a minority - that is where we find one another and support each other.
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« Reply #36 on: Apr 08, 2013 05:14 PM »

You need to read between the lines.

People who want male only Musjids have every right to make male only Musjids. People who want female only Musjids (they exist in China) have every right to make female only Musjids. People who want mixed Musjids have every right to make mixed Musjids.
What I am against is this criticizing the efforts of others.
If these people on that video were people who have made really good Musjids that are filled in Jummah, and just as full for 5 times a day salat, and maybe just as full between salats too. That they can say, "look we have made a really nice Musjids others should make on just like ours".
But that isn't the case is it?

So what I have said still counts. Go a head a build your Musjids what ever way you want. And when people say you are evil and your Musjids are bad because they are mixed, I will defend you just as I have defended brothers that have made male only Musjids.
Each to their one, right?
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« Reply #37 on: Apr 08, 2013 05:21 PM »

Basically your are saying that Mosques are owned by those who gave the money for it ie the Rich. Anyone else has no right to even attend the Mosque let alone question the way it is used or run. Those who are poor, women, children the dispossessed should not bother and are not welcome.  Ask yourself:  Is that Islam?
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« Reply #38 on: Apr 08, 2013 05:44 PM »

Nope, it is often the poor that pay for them, and the rich westernised elite who complain about them.
And what is my Islam isn't an issue here.
What matters is what is the Islam of the people who made that Musjid.
If your Islam is different to their Islam. Go build your Musjid according to your Islam.

I never said I have a problem with mixed Musjids. I didn't even say I have a preference for single sex Musjids. What I am saying is if they like their Musjids single sexed, it is no ones business but their own. People who think there isn't enough provision for "who are poor, women, children the dispossessed, " would make Musjids where there are.

This is a serious problem with the Ummah. Few people do good actions for the Ummah. But everyone lines up to criticize the few that do.
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« Reply #39 on: Apr 08, 2013 06:07 PM »

What you keep saying is 'go build your own masjid'. Yeah that takes money. I gave money too, so I own my Masjid and have a right to say how it is run.
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« Reply #40 on: Apr 08, 2013 06:29 PM »

You put your money in to their Box, knowing the type of Musjid it would result in.
The same as if you would find a location, apply for planning permission, collect the money and construct it. If those guys that want male only Musjids put in some coins in your box they would have as much right to turn the Musjid you constructed as a mixed one in to a male only one as you do to turn their male only one in to a mixed one.

There was a time when there were no Musjids here in the UK. The people who are 80-90 were in their early 20s and even in their late teens then. Unlike us, they were really poor. They worked in Jobs no white man would ever do. And long hours that would be illegal now. But they managed to construct those male only musjids everyone complains about. If they could do it back then you can do it right now.
I don't have a problem with any ones Musjids. And will probably put money in your collection box just as easily as I have done in theirs.

Basically people have two choices. They can be happy and grateful about the Musjids they have right now (Me). Or they can construct Musjids that function the way they like(People have done this, there are many Musjids with female halls).
But what they can't do is complain about people doing Islamic actions they can't be bothered to do themselves.
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« Reply #41 on: Apr 09, 2013 12:54 PM »

Yeah see you keep making the point "If you don't like it, make your own". That doesn't work. That's like the Islamophobes telling Muslims "If you don't like it, leave and make your own country". Uhhh no I live here too and I contribute to society and the mosque and I and anyone else has the right to criticize and make points about it and try to change things that are not favourable or fair to us. Especially about a Masjid which is such an important institution in our religion and is the HOUSE OF ALLAH, not your house and not a group of founding men's or anyone elses.
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« Reply #42 on: Apr 10, 2013 03:04 AM »

Here's another one - MuslimMatters are taking this pretty seriously!

http://muslimmatters.org/2013/04/04/dealing-with-masjid-community-fatigue/

And I agree with Sister Jannah - mosques are meant to be the House of ALLAH SWT, run according to HIS rules, and not mankind's random notions.
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« Reply #43 on: Apr 10, 2013 01:59 PM »

They just released a second trailer. It's below. Interesting how they have ppl like Imam Suhaib and Nouman Ali Khan discussing the topic now. I think this is actually a really great discussion that we as an Ummah should have. What should a Mosque be? What is it's function? What are must-haves? What should we be working towards? etc.

Unmosqued The Movie Teaser 2
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« Reply #44 on: Apr 10, 2013 07:22 PM »

In my experience discussions like this is all about aiding the Islamaphobes to try to get in to their good books.
It is used to stop the construction of Musjids. For example people who make these arguments lined up with the Zionists, the Nazis of both the BNP and the EDL, the Zionists, and Christian Missionary, Homosexuals groups and others that hate Islam  to lobby successfully against the construction of the Markaz in Stratford.

The reason why I say build your own Musjid. Is there is a need for more Musjids. and this is used to stop more Musjids.
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« Reply #45 on: Apr 10, 2013 11:44 PM »

The second trailer is MUCH better! I'm really looking forward to this now - especially with Imam Suhaib Webb saying that this is going to be our generations job. I don't think that this is going to be the whiny thing I suspected at first - I think it's going to be an actual good discussion with good solutions.  Smiley
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« Reply #46 on: Apr 12, 2013 07:23 PM »

I watched an interview of Shaykh Yasir Qadhi's father and he said that unless the youth literally kicks the older generation(he included himself here) out of running the show, they won't leave.
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« Reply #47 on: Apr 12, 2013 11:11 PM »

I really hate this "them and us" attitude within the Muslim community. If it isn't the older generation verses the young, it is Born in Muslim countries verses home grown, and when not that it is born Muslim verses converts.
I get the impression all of this is a Zionist conspiracy to divide and rule us.

I have a them an us too, mine is Iman verses Kufr, Muslims verses Kaffir. A lot of people seem to have a big problem with this, but seem to have no problems with Muslims setting themselves off against each other.

You know when I say make your own Musjid. That wouldn't end this problem if you did make a Musjid run in your way. Sooner than you think, you yourselves will be regarded as the older generation that needs to be removed and replaced by the younger one.

Old people will die. If you were in the Musjids, cleaning the toilets, fixing the broken pipes, waking up before fajr to open it and leaving after Isha to close it, you would be in the correct position to take over and run it anyway you want when the old people who currently sun it die.
But if you are not doing it, I am sure the people who currently do all the non-glamorous parts of running a Musjid will run the Musjid in a way you do not approve of when the old people die and they take over.
So, get over it Smiley
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« Reply #48 on: Apr 14, 2013 07:09 PM »

Bro, it's not about them vs us or who's better at cleaning the toilets. Why can't you acknowledge that if people aren't feeling welcome then there is a problem? In our masjid, they didn't let anyone outside the oldie group be a part of the committee until last year. Everything was done in a way that it became difficult for any youngster to get on board. When somebody objected, he was shunned. One of the members works in Dubai and comes here only for short visits. How come he's better equipped than any local youngster when he doesn't even live here. I think I mentioned this before, the committee president got angry and scolded the muadhin in front of a full masjid because he was friendly with the youth. It's like an oligarchy here. Suggestions are never welcome and dirty politics is the norm. My uncle left our neighbourhood and vowed never to return because of the very people who run the masjid.

I'm amazed at how you can't even accept the remotest possibility that some people may be wrong. I'm not saying every masjid is like that but ours is.
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« Reply #49 on: Apr 17, 2013 05:11 AM »

Just read both pieces - great points made by Sr. Hena and Br. Siraaj. It IS going to be up to our generation for sure...(will watch the 2nd trailer later and then comment).

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