// Hanafi Friday Khutbah - 2nd Fixed One in Arabic
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Hard2Hit
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« on: Feb 22, 2013 10:23 AM »


A.A. Everyone,


I'm looking for translation of the 2nd fixed khutbah in Arabic that is given in Hanafi masjids on Fridays.

Attached is the arabic part, and 2nd attachment is a part translation I got from Scribd.

Can anyone translate and post the rest of it please ?


The knight doesn't wait when he's ill or has cancer brother, the knight fights on... He finds a strategy, changes tactics, and hits hard.
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« Reply #1 on: Feb 26, 2013 10:22 AM »

Must Musjids just seem to read the Khutba from the book "Jummah Ki Khatba".
Not sure why you would be intrested in it?

It is more a Indian thing than a Hanafi thing.
Non-Indian-hanafis don't have the book Jummah Ki Khutba and they don't even have the word Ki.
In a Turkish(Turks are Hanafi) Musjid I pray in when I miss the Jummah in the Musjid closest to me they do the first Khutba in Turkish and the next in English(Turkish English).
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« Reply #2 on: Feb 26, 2013 11:13 AM »

A.A.

Im interested because the second Khutbah over here is in arabic, and mostly has same wording in all masjids around me (1st attachment).

I just want to understand that second khutbah better.



The knight doesn't wait when he's ill or has cancer brother, the knight fights on... He finds a strategy, changes tactics, and hits hard.
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« Reply #3 on: Feb 26, 2013 11:43 AM »

Why not ask the Imam, but in more cases than not the Imam wont know the meaning himself.
But I am sure Jummah Ki Khatba from which almost all of them read it has Urdu translations.
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« Reply #4 on: Feb 26, 2013 01:22 PM »

A.A.

Im interested because the second Khutbah over here is in arabic, and mostly has same wording in all masjids around me (1st attachment).

I just want to understand that second khutbah better.

That's the tragedy in desiland bro. Here we have a bayan in urdu and then both the khutbas in arabic and they're almost the same in every masjid. It's like they do it just to fulfill the formality.
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« Reply #5 on: Feb 26, 2013 02:45 PM »

Yes that is exactly what they do. They just read a passage from that book I mentioned.
That book is full of khatbas, but they are all pretty much sound the same.

The chain of thought behind it is:
Khatba has to be in Arabic.
To say it in any other language is Biddah.
Because people in the audience and in a lot of cases the Imam himself can not speak Arabic they will read out a fixed passage most often from the book "Jummah ki Khatba".

Because of this the practice of doing a Bayan before the Khatba in place of the Khatba has evolved which I would say is closer to a Biddah than doing the Khatba itself in a language that people can understand.
And in the west another practice is taking hold. As Muslims of Asian descent loss command of Urdu and none Asian Muslims start using the Musjid, we are getting to the stage where a repetitive Khatba is said in Arabic to meet the formalities, preceded by a repetitive Bayan in Urdu to meet the formalities, preceded by a speech in English.

The main argument they use to justify this is to say "the Khatba is zhikir, we do not zhikir in English so it has to be in Arabic". They need to look deeper in to the meaning of the word Zhikar and remember it is used to mean the remembrance of Allah. Anyway, What I do when listening to it is treat the Bayan before the Khatba as the Khatba itself, meaning I remain silent and listen just as I would during the rules of Khatba. Because as far as I am concerned, that is the real Khatba.
If these people wanted to do the Khatba in Arabic because anything else would be biddha than they should start by teaching themselves and their Children Arabic to a level required to understand the Khatba. But instead they teach their children Urdu with the excuse it is needed to understand the Bayan before the Khatba.
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« Reply #6 on: Feb 26, 2013 03:09 PM »

Now now bro, let's not get into urdu bashing again lol
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« Reply #7 on: Feb 26, 2013 03:13 PM »

Correct me if I am wrong but khutbah means 'sermon' in arabic right?

So how can anything be biddah if you are just delivering a sermon?Please pardon my ignorance and feel free to explain.
Thanks
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« Reply #8 on: Feb 26, 2013 04:45 PM »

Well if you want an unbiased answer you would have to ask they themselves.
I have just repeated what they have said to me.

I have my own suspicions on it though.
This has never been a problem outside the Indo-pak community in English speaking countries.
People do not argue about Arabic being replaced by any other language in any other part of the world or for any other community.

To the best of my knowledge that Fatwa which I have personally read was produced in South Africa.
I read it a very long time ago and it came in booklet form so I can't remember each and every word of it.
But I don't think I need to, from what I can remember it didn't give any Islamic arguments, instead it just gave a general attack on people that give Khatba in English saying something like "Those people who give Khatba in English assume they have better knowledge than us when all they have is a Yusuf Ali translation of the Quran  and sometimes they have a translation of Sahih Bukari too"

So I suspect it has more to do with Deobandi Ulimah trying to keep a hold of the Indo-Pak communities that live in English speaking countries.

This isn't an attack on Hanafis, I'm one myself. And when I need a Fatwa I usually go to Deobandi Ulima because they seen to give the fastest and clearest answers.

But you know the fact that you are from a community should not stop you from criticizing them when they are wrong.
Anything else is hypocrisy.
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« Reply #9 on: Feb 27, 2013 07:37 AM »

islamicsocks:

I think the imam would definitely know the meaning in big masajid at least. I'm just too lazy to ask.

Actually my big bro can translate it too since he went to madrassah for 4 years after his graduation, and then to Yemen with TJ. There he was the translator of his Jamaat. I thought posting it here would get me a quick ready made solution. Guess i'll have to ask big bro for his services.

akhan: I'm personally fine with the 2nd khutbah being in Arabic. It's actually a motivation for many to learn arabic or at least the basics of it. And since the first longer khutbah is in native language, the listeners can always take something good from it.

And islamicsocks, you say that imam's themselves dont know the meaning and then add, and I quote " Arabic khutbah has more to do with  Deobandi Ulimah trying to keep a hold of the Indo-Pak communities". Well aren't the two things mutually exclusive, I mean how can they control using a second(ary) khutbah in Arabic when they themselves dont know the meaning according to you Wink


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« Reply #10 on: Feb 27, 2013 02:10 PM »

islamicsocks:

" Arabic khutbah has more to do with  Deobandi Ulimah trying to keep a hold of the Indo-Pak communities". Well aren't the two things mutually exclusive, I mean how can they control using a second(ary) khutbah in Arabic when they themselves dont know the meaning according to you Wink



You would think so wouldn't you?
But that is exactly what is happening.
If it was about being Hanafi, or about replacing Arabic with another language they would be going to Turkish Hanafi Musjids and ordering them to replace Turkish Khutbas with Arabic. But they don't do they.

Instead it is only used to tell their own youth to stay away from Musjids and Prayer halls not controlled by themselves or people like them with the excuse that a Khutba in English is less of a Khutba.

I have said before if all this was to encourage people to learn Arabic I would be all for it. But the way it is done(And I believe the purpose) has the opposite affect.
A small sentence is read from a old book to meet the formalities of Khutba in Arabic. And you have indicated that the Musjids you go to all seem to be reading the same passage from that book repeatedly.
I don't think the desire to understand the meaning of a single sentence repeated each and every Friday in each and every Musjid will encourage anyone to learn Arabic, would it?
And than they put so much effort in to the Urdu Bayan they give beforehand, so much so that people send their kids to Urdu classes instead of Arabic classes so they can learn from the Bayan.
In their Musjids the Imam that knows Arabic will say a line or two in Arabic from his mind to meet the obligation, or he may just read it from Jummah ki Khutba. The Imam that doesn't will only use Jummah ki Khutba or another book.

There is a lot of Indian villiage politics behind all this. It is better for your sanity if you don't understand it.
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