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Author Topic: Would you eat a test-tube burger?  (Read 207 times)
jannah
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« on: Aug 14, 2013 11:32 AM »


Ermmmm.... sounds kinda scary!! I wonder if McD's does this already!?

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This week a team of scientists led by Mark Post of Maastricht University in the Netherlands created, cooked, and tasted a patty of meat fibers from the muscle stem cells of a cow's shoulder in a test tube. The three five-ounce sliders cost more than $300,000.

Google's Sergey Brin reportedly chipped in close to $1 million for the effort, which, if properly funded, could place stem cell-grown beef patties, mixed with some yummy beet flavoring, egg powder, and added fat, in your local freezer in 10 to 15 years. It's not so wild to envision homemade kits that provide the cells and other crucial ingredients you need to grow your favorite cuts of meat. Talk about the DIY movement!

This could revolutionize the way aid is delivered in a natural disaster and could dramatically lower the energy and production costs of feeding millions. After all, less meat equals less heat.


http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2422932,00.asp
sadah
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« Reply #1 on: Aug 14, 2013 04:29 PM »

I think I would in as much as there is no strong fatwa against it  Huh?

I just listened to Mark Post on BBC Hardtalk (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01dsyr5). I like his enthusiasm and optimism on the project but I wonder if they have done a thorough BCR analysis or EIA to be specific. I doubt that! The presenter reminded him of the assertion that people are eating amount of meat more than their system require which he agreed upon, then isn't cut-down campaign the right way to go?

That aside, doing away with livestock would be a huge disruption to the ecosystem which in itself is a threat to the environment. Its effect on humans may be severer than any other specie extinction. I would love to hear Professor Allan Savory's opinion on this issue whose decades of research on climate change made him to believe that the only solution for it is to cultivate more livestock!

I think this guy has given me a research topic for my PhD. Grin I would want to know how the environment and we (humans) would be affected by removal of livestock from our ecosystem. If you don't understand what I am trying to hint here go read on researches on why risk of rabbis infection in India and Pakistan has surged in the past decade. You may find out that it was because vultures population went down tremendously whose place was then taken by dogs!

Allan savory on TED http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change.html

I like this comment under the pc mag article:

Quote
I am a meatatarian. Plants have feelings too and have been exploited by people and animals far too long! Any animal that would eat plants deserves to be shot, bled out, slaughtered, cut up into filets, grilled, and slapped on my plate with some


and this:

Quote
A vegetarian on an airplane once lectured my father about his meat based meal, saying the fear of the animal was imprinted on the flesh when it was killed. He told her she was right; he grew up on a wheat farm and the wheat was cut and threshed right when it was ripe and it was imprinted on the grain. He offered her his roll, saying he couldn't eat it knowing what the wheat went through to provide a meal.


 Cheesy Cheesy

"Whoever rejects false deities and believes in Allah has grasped a firm handhold which will never break." Q 2:256"
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 14, 2013 06:45 PM »

Is it halal?
Nature
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 14, 2013 08:03 PM »

I think I would in as much as there is no strong fatwa against it  Huh?

I just listened to Mark Post on BBC Hardtalk (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01dsyr5). I like his enthusiasm and optimism on the project but I wonder if they have done a thorough BCR analysis or EIA to be specific? I doubt that! The presenter reminded him of the assertion that people are eating amount of meat more than their system require which he agreed upon, then isn't cut-down campaign the right way to go?

That aside, doing away with livestock would be a huge disruption to the ecosystem which in it self is a threat to the environment. Its effect on humans may be severer than any other specie extinction. I would love to hear Professor Allan Savory's opinion on this issue whose decades of research on climate change made him to believe that the only solution for it is to cultivate more livestock!

I think this guy has given me a research topic for my PhD. Grin I would want to know how the environment and we (humans) would be affected by removal of livestock from our ecosystem. If you don't understand what I am trying to hint here go read on researches on why risk of rabbis infection in India and Pakistan has surged in the past decade. You may find out that it was because vultures population went down tremendously whose place was then taken by dogs!

Allan savory on TED http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change.html

I like this comment under the pcmag article:

Quote
I am a meatatarian. Plants have feelings too and have been exploited by people and animals far too long! Any animal that would eat plants deserves to be shot, bled out, slaughtered, cut up into filets, grilled, and slapped on my plate with some


and this:

Quote
A vegetarian on an airplane once lectured my father about his meat based meal, saying the fear of the animal was imprinted on the flesh when it was killed. He told her she was right; he grew up on a wheat farm and the wheat was cut and threshed right when it was ripe and it was imprinted on the grain. He offered her his roll, saying he couldn't eat it knowing what the wheat went through to provide a meal.


 Cheesy Cheesy


Very interesting! We discuss this a LOT in my geography and biology classes - about how the way that we're maintaining our livestock is simply unsustainable - meaning, we just can't keep this up, the millions of zillions of cows being mass-produced, basically. I think that the solution isn't 'not keeping livestock' or 'not having farms' - it's making our food more groundroots. We wouldn't eat half so much meat if we had to, for example, keep our livestock in our community. I personally find the idea of 'growing' meat creepy - but it's being investigated as a viable alternative to the huge beef farms that we currently depend on for our big Macs... Roll Eyes

Haha my family are meat-lovers (including me) so I hear a LOT of fun made of vegetarians - but when I'm not around halal meat, I eat vegetarian, and it's not so bad. I know a whole lot of vegetarians, and the reason they don't choose to eat meat is usually nothing to do with 'killing animals' - it's with how the animal is treated before it's killed. They don't believe in supporting meat industries that make animals live in very, very unhealthy condition, which end up having really bad effects on the us through our food! I think that that's something that we should think about as Muslims too.

Sadah - what exactly do you mean by the effect on the environment if we remove livestock? I think that 'normal-sized' livestock would be interesting to investigate - but the huge livestock farms, in the states for example, are really unnatural and have a terrible effect on the environment, and reducing their size is generally considered beneficial.
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 14, 2013 10:23 PM »

Quote
Sadah - what exactly do you mean by the effect on the environment if we remove livestock? I think that 'normal-sized' livestock would be interesting to investigate - but the huge livestock farms, in the states for example, are really unnatural and have a terrible effect on the environment, and reducing their size is generally considered beneficial.

I believe the livestock's symbiotic relationship with other biodiversity would be affected if they are reduced substantially. These guys are not suggesting that we reduce the number of livestock, they want us to stop rearing them except few pets from which stem cells can be gotten. I am not sure how but there would be a lot of organisms (from both plants and animals) that may cease to exist when livestock are removed from the ecosystem. Some of the livestock's parasites may have to migrate to humans in order to survive.  Shocked I would want to see a research done on that.

If we talk about unsustainability, wont it be worse if we allow the livestock to live without eating their meat?

You think overgrazing is animals' fault? I dont. I believe if we adopt proper harvesting and conservation techniques, the land is more than enough to provide what they want. Most of the plants they prefer to eat can not be used by us.

"Whoever rejects false deities and believes in Allah has grasped a firm handhold which will never break." Q 2:256"
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 15, 2013 01:19 AM »

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You think overgrazing is animals' fault? I dont. I believe if we adopt proper harvesting and conservation techniques, the land is more than enough to provide what they want. Most of the plants they prefer to eat can not be used by us.

I'm not so worried about overgrazing as I am about the effects of the fertilizers and pesticides that are used to produce their...pretty questionable food. But that's in the States, I don't know about other places.

Quote
If we talk about unsustainability, wont it be worse if we allow the livestock to live without eating their meat?

No - I think that most livestock is bred purely for human needs - when left to nature their numbers are nothing like what we produce! If we stopped eating as much meat, fewer cows would be bred to meet demand, and their numbers would decrease.
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« Reply #6 on: Aug 15, 2013 04:48 AM »

Now I see that our experience with them are different. I agree that reducing our meat intake is the best alternative but switching to synthetic one comes with its environmental costs as well. Remember they also have to grow the food to feed the cells. Yes that conversion is gonna be more efficient (may be over 90 percent compared to less than 20) but then we would be taking away tonnes of manure for crop production which would translate to more fertiliser.

In Africa, most pastoralists rely on natural pastures for their livestock, resulting in desertification and deforestation of drylands. That's the biggest challenge we talk about here. Though most of the meat we produce is exported, but its input to our economies is huge. Millions of people rely on income from that sector. And as much as they cause degradation, I believe we also need them to control it. Nature provides resources more than required, the question is we don't tap and conserve them the way we should.

"Whoever rejects false deities and believes in Allah has grasped a firm handhold which will never break." Q 2:256"
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« Reply #7 on: Aug 15, 2013 09:59 AM »

I wouldn't.

Cattle are an essential part of the eco system, you take them out of the food chain it has massive repercussions, you stop eating them that also has massive repercussions.

Altho I do believe we need to farm in a more ecological manner and widen our food intake to increase vegetables.

But no, there is no way I would eat something grown on a petri dish, I refuse to buy GM foods and try to source organic, free range and locally sourced products as much as possible. I can actually see the effects of drinking regular milk versus organic milk in my children and the effects it has on young children scares me. I wonder if a few generations down the line all this messing around with our food will have unspeakable genetic repercussions on our great grandchildren.

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #8 on: Aug 15, 2013 11:42 AM »

Is it halal?

Everything is halal by default and if we don't have any evidence that makes it haram, it shall be. If it isn't then we'd soon hear fatwa on it.

"Whoever rejects false deities and believes in Allah has grasped a firm handhold which will never break." Q 2:256"
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« Reply #9 on: Aug 15, 2013 12:15 PM »

salam

It is things like this that make scientists look and sound crazy!  What a mess.  fainting

For now, projects like these will not take off the ground because of the prohibitively high cost of production and the potential for law suits about health hazards.  
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« Reply #10 on: Aug 15, 2013 03:21 PM »


Quote
I can actually see the effects of drinking regular milk versus organic milk in my children and the effects it has on young children scares me.

True.

I remember hearing few years ago about a study that said that increase in the number of children with vision problems and so the rise in usage of spectacles in modern kids was because of (apart from TV and computer viewing and wrong study styles) the constant consumption of the so called tampered food all through the childhood.

For me sticking to pure and natural products is always the key.A little bit of basic and harmless  procedures for increasing productivity,preserving and purifying is acceptable but 'creating artificial' food is a big NO for me.We can not take over the job of God to 'create' wholesome food this way..so some problems are bound to happen.

Quote
Nature provides resources more than required, the question is we don't tap and conserve them the way we should.
I second our brother's thoughts here.

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