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Author Topic: Canada: Polygamous Muslim marriages 'on the rise'  (Read 19131 times)
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Nadiyya
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« Reply #25 on: Jun 09, 2008 03:26 PM »

 salaam

I believe the same as Sr. Black rose. If you are going to live in a country, it would only be islamic to follow it's rules.
I'm going to say it now. If you do not like the laws of the land in which you reside, what the hell are you doing living

Secondly, In Islam the wives are supposed to maintain equal treatment, am I right? How is the second wife supposed tobe an Equal when the land which they live in doesn't grant her any of the same legal rights as the first wife, and doesn't see her as anything but a "girlfriend" to say the least. doesn't she have rights, what about her childrenin the case of a divorce?

This excuse about the following the laws of the white man’s lands is just another way of saying “listening to master”.


Ok Cheese, I am not even going to start about what a racist remark that was.  WhiteMAN?? what? If you were trying to score some leverage on this topic withthat,you sure sunk down a bit Lips Sealed

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« Reply #26 on: Jun 09, 2008 03:40 PM »

Assalamualaikum,

I think nadiyya you made 2 superb points there regarding the equity of polygenous marriages in islam.

Bare in mind, in Islamic history we know of a very famous example of muslims living under non muslim rules and the example they gave us.

Many of the sahabah had to live in abyssinia under the rulership of the christians, and had to follow the laws of the land that they lived in. It would be contrary to the shariah not to follow them.


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« Reply #27 on: Jun 09, 2008 03:43 PM »


 salaam

I think Nadiyya you made 2 superb points there regarding the equity of polygenous marriages in islam.


Awww Smiley That means so much to me coming from you Embarrassed

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« Reply #28 on: Jun 10, 2008 04:29 AM »


salam

Blackrose:

All the sahaba had more than wife. Abu-Bakr, Omar, Uthman and Ali all had multiple wives. Ali (not Omar) married after Fatima radiya Allahu anha died.  Fatima died young, only six months after the prophet peace be upon him. he also married other women. 

Now back to the topic of polygamy in non-muslim lands.  Polygamy is halal and no one can dispute this.  Some women don't mind it, and I know of few who don't. 

Muslims and others can lobby to change the law.  If they can legalize marijuana (sp?) in Canada for medicinal use, they can sure legalize polygamy for muslims or mormons, given certain conditions or guidelines. 

chill people, laws of lands can and do change.

take care
wassalam

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« Reply #29 on: Jun 10, 2008 07:59 PM »

Aslamualaikum

I talked to my Imam and he sais that all the sahaba did not practice polygomy and he said that it is not recommended but the opposite. He said polygomy was the norm at the time and people would have unlimited amount of wives, Islam came to restrict and limit that number with strict guidelines. He said its not fun, it is hard enough to take care of one family. And he said it was to help the widows and the divorcee and in the WEst you already get alot of help from the government. He also said it is against the law and there is no reason to go against the law especially since its not even recommended.  Plus you endangering the womans rights because she is not considered a legal wife
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« Reply #30 on: Jun 12, 2008 05:45 PM »


“told her that he wanted to take a second wife”

The Husband could be a Shafi.
In the other three Madhabs it is a very serious Makrooh not to tell the first, but in the Shafi Madhab it isn’t.

“i agree here too, since when do woman have a date when they are no longer desirable.”

It’s not up to women to choose that date, it is up to men, that those women want to be chosen by.
And after a particular age, most men just aren’t entrusted. This is a fact, it has its exceptions, but it is still a fact.
Polygamy is still an option for these women, whether the kaffir like it or not, it is still an option. Because Islam has no St Augustine, and we don’t worship our Scholars like how the previous nations worshiped their priests and rabbis. Menopause is usually the sell-by date for most men, because most men who are looking for a wife would also want kids. It might be unfair that women can’t have kids after they hit a certain age, but that isn’t my fault.

“If you do not like the laws of the land in which you reside, what the hell are you doing living there???”
If you don’t like the fact that people are breaking Kufr law, why don’t you move to a country where everyone obeys kufr law?
The whole world belongs to Allah. Canada belongs to Allah, not white Christians who killed millions of red people to take that country.
So in Canada Muslims should obey Allah instead of obeying White Christians who slaughtered Millions of red people to take that country.

Fozia, now I’m asking you straight, so please give me a straight answer. Have you ever said that to a white Christian, who breaks laws or disagrees with laws?
Have you said that to a Communist who wants Britain to be ruled by Communism? Have you told them to go to China, Cuba or some other nation?
If you want to argue an issue, use valid arguments, instead of meaningless slogans stolen from flag worshiping racists.
That slogan you used is doubly irrelevant because we would have the option of living in the Khilafah, if Britain didn’t dismember it. We would have the option of living under Mogul rule, if Britain didn’t colonise it, and turn it in to dismembered secular nations including the Qadyani ruled land of Pakistan.
And you tell me, why can’t I live under the Taliban, if that’s what I want?
So the issue isn’t we should move out of kaffar ruled nations if we want to live by Islam, they should stop invading our nations if they want us out.

blackrose
Yes I did read “did you not read what anon posted?” and didn’t read the word polygamy in it at all. So it is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. Unless you know for a fact that that scholar meant polygamy in that fatwa, implying it did is a slander on him. Secondly this whole thread is a slander on a Canadian scholar. This isn’t about what I say (It is Allah who allowed it not me), this is about what that Canadian Scholar has said, and the ignorant attacks on him by some members of this board.

“the sahaba would have done it.”
What Madhab has that Usul?
If all male Sahaba practiced polygamy, how many times as many female Sahaba would need to have existed?
Your argument is extremely silly, please think through it again.

Is polygamy recommended?
That is a false question. The real question is whether it is allowed. And it is. Allah decides what is Hallal and what is Harram and Allah has made it Hallal.
This issue is about tawheed al Hakimia, “are the rulers gods above Allah?” is the real question. When Allah makes something Hallal, and the rulers make it Harram, who do we follow? Who is our highest lord?
A Canadian Scholar carried out polygamist marriages, and some people here attacked him in a way I attack Kaffir Soldiers who kill our brothers. And I’m accused of being a hater for attacking these Kaffir Soldiers who murder our brothers. Are the people who tolerate kaffir killing Muslims the same people who are intolerant of Ulima who do things the kaffir don’t like? Well I can’t remember, can you?
 
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« Reply #31 on: Jun 12, 2008 06:03 PM »

no one is disagreeing with you whether polygomy is halal or not, one thing we know its not fard and one thing we know Islamically the first wife has a full right to divorce if her husband marries another.

What we are saying is that this Imam clearly said is that you have to follow the law of the land. And you know that is exactly what i was referring too so to do polygomy where it is illegal is also forbidden in Islam. And who are you to accuse me of slandering, when you sit their and accuse most famous sheiks for being paid for what they say by the west. that is absolutely despicable and uncalled for. IF you were in a Muslim land you probably would be punished for it

My last post was what the Imam of our community said, I dont understand why are you arguing with it.


and your damn right the whole world belongs to Allahswt so by obeying the laws of the land we are obeying Him , why cant you get that in your head???
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« Reply #32 on: Jun 12, 2008 09:32 PM »

salam


Cheese, oh yes I have, I had the most jaw dropping conversation with a brit expat in Dubai...I effectively told him to go back home...gosh it was amusing, boot, other foot, and all that.

Dude I'm not picking on you, I have said it to those who reside in islamic countries too, and actually they're not always white either or as it happens of any religion.


Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #33 on: Jun 12, 2008 11:34 PM »

Quote
It’s not up to women to choose that date, it is up to men, that those women want to be chosen by.
And after a particular age, most men just aren’t entrusted. This is a fact, it has its exceptions, but it is still a fact.
Polygamy is still an option for these women, whether the kaffir like it or not, it is still an option. Because Islam has no St Augustine, and we don’t worship our Scholars like how the previous nations worshiped their priests and rabbis. Menopause is usually the sell-by date for most men, because most men who are looking for a wife would also want kids. It might be unfair that women can’t have kids after they hit a certain age, but that isn’t my fault.

men arent entrusted after a certain age. wow. you are absolutely shocking. And what do woman do after they dont find their husbands as desirable after a certain age. you know when they turn old , bald and ugly. Should they throw them in the dump (divorce) and move on and marry someone younger and more handsome. After all its also a womans right to be satisfied in bed is it not? And if her husband cant she also has grounds for divorce. Do you see the abusurdity of what your saying?
By the way its medically proven that once a man turns fifty I bleive wa sthe age (anyone know?) his chance of having kids also gets less

worshipping and respecting a scholar are completely different things
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« Reply #34 on: Jun 14, 2008 05:55 PM »

Assalamualaikum,

Ive actually read the thread from page 1 again and have to state (without mentioning names) that there is much conjecture and "fatwas" flying around without any daleel.

Brother cheese - with respect, in islam there is no such thing as a "sell by date" for neither male nor female and this concept is contrary to the shariah which encourages marriages, regardless of age - the marriage of aisha and our beloved prophet (SAW) being the prime example. Indeed the marriage of Khadija (RA) aged 40 and the prophet Muhammad (SAW) another apt example.

As i mentioned before regarding the obligation to follow the laws of the land - i gave the example of the sahabahs who emigrated to abyssinia.

In Fataawaa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 12/51 it is prescribed that if Muslims can "establish the rituals of Islam within his family and establish evidence against the rulers and people in authority, and bring about reform, making them change their ways, then it is prescribed for him to stay among them, because there is the hope that by staying there he may be able to convey the message and reform them – so long as he is safe from temptation and fitnah."

It was khadija (RA) who chose to marry the prophet (SAW) as she had many suitors, rather than the other way around as she knew that the prophet (SAW) was a good charactered individual, bearing in mind he was not a nabi at this point.

We also must use hikmah in our responses and refrain from racial slurs - referring to people as "white" as race has no bearing on religion, this ummah is based on one unifying factor alone and that is tawheed.

If non muslims read these racial slurs, are we inviting them to our deen or pushing them away? Our actions is  a form of dawah, our speech is a form of dawah we must use our hikmah when responding inshallah.

It is also important to note as Dr Zakir Naik pointed out that the appropriate term is polygyny. Polygamy is haram in islam as the definition permits women to marry more than one. However, polygyny is permitted in islam with limits  -  that is that men can marry upto 4.

The fuqaha of the european council stated unanimously that there is NO "norm" in islam as to whether polygyny or monogamy is favoured. Simply, both are permitted.. as to the degree of the permissiblility is subject to the circumstance.

I.e. whether it is wajib (obligatory), mandub (commendable), mubah (permissible), makruh (reprehensible), or muharram (prohibited) is dependant on the situation.

And Allah knows best





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« Reply #35 on: Jun 14, 2008 09:39 PM »

Asalamualaikum wrt wb,


All praise be to Allah.



The Ulema state that allowing a man to marry another wife legally protects the interests of women.  Otherwise, a man may take a 'second wife' illegally by simply not declaring it publically, and the second wife will not have the legal protections that the first wife has.  Thus, the Shariah of Islam protects women from being left without legal support.


An interesting phenomenon in the West is that they are now allowing men to marry other men, and women to marry women, pornography and prostitution is legal in many Western countries such as Germany and The Netherlands.  A man sleeping with a dozen girlfriends is not in anyway illegal, but a man sleeping with his legal wife who he is married to by the Laws of Allah is taken to jail.  This should all be stopped.


In anycase, as long as they keep marrying a second wife illegal, they will simply restrict women's rights since marriage in itself is an institution that protects women and children through the responsibilities and rights that are connected to it.


As for saying the first wife is entitled to divorce if the husband marries a second wife, I have not heard that from any of the Ulema.  Could you please provide evidence for this?


As for following the man-made laws, the basic principle the Ulema invoke is (La taa'ta lil makhlooq fee ma'siyyati al-Khaliq).  "There is no obedience to the created in disobedience to the Creator."  For certain individuals who have strong desire and fear falling into Zina or adultery, marrying a second wife may become wajib on him, and it is not right for a ruler to prevent him from that.  Thus, following the law of the land cannot contradict our religion, and this is the essence of freedom of religion that we are entitled to as citizens living in the West.






Praise be to Allah whose Laws are most wise, and may He guide us to follow them.  Ameen.

And may peace and blessings be upon Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions.

And Allah knows better.

Be merciful to those on earth, and the One in the Heavens will be merciful to you.
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« Reply #36 on: Jun 14, 2008 11:04 PM »

Assalamualaikum,

There is only one instance that I know of whereby the first wife is entitled to divorce the husband if he takes a second, and that is if the marriage contracts stipulates that he cannot take on a second wife, and they mutually agree - and then he breaches this contract.


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« Reply #37 on: Jun 14, 2008 11:13 PM »

Asalamualaikum
Actually brother Abdurahman I have read and heard in many places. I know I have but I dont remember where. Contrary to what you believe. I also listen to lectures and I dont say Islamic rulings from my opinions.  You have to remember brother that the Prophet gave different rulings depending on the situation. I have told you  many times, not everything is clear cut. Feelings and justice is taken into consideration.

Anyway here is one place I found it at the moment.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1140333531684

It was also mentioned in reading Islam. 


Quote
For certain individuals who have strong desire and fear falling into Zina or adultery, marrying a second wife may become wajib on him

Where is your proof for this?
another thing is if he has one wife why would he commit zina? A wife cannot reject her husband in bed for no reason and he should look at her before he marries her to make sure he is attracted to her
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« Reply #38 on: Jun 14, 2008 11:54 PM »

refer to my post please re: polygyny


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« Reply #39 on: Jun 15, 2008 03:46 PM »

Here is the view of a Muslim Organization

April 7, 2008
Imam flaunts contempt for Canadian Law
MCC urges police to lay charges against polygamous Muslim men


TORONTO - The Muslim Canadian Congress has asked Toronto and Peel Regional Police to investigate the growing number of polygamous marriages and charge those who are committing this crime and committing welfare fraud.

The MCC said in a statement that it is appalled by the news that a significant number of fundamentalist Muslims are practicing polygamy in Canada despite the fact that Canadian law only supports monogamous unions.

The statement said it is reprehensible that some Muslims are using a loophole in the application of the law at the provincial level to justify the practice of polygamy that should have no place in this day and age.

The fact that these Muslims in polygamous unions are collecting social benefits funded by Ontario tax dollars while claiming to be practicing Islam, makes it incumbent on all Muslim Canadians to expose those who tarnish the good name of Islam and bring disrepute to the Muslim community.

The MCC said it was troubled that although the provincial law states that it only recognizes one spouse as legal, the other members of such unions can claim benefits as independent applicants.

The MCC as a secular Muslim organization repudiates the practice of polygamy on grounds that it is degrading and unfair to Muslim women. The inherent injustice of such a practice, despite the rationale offered by fundamentalist Muslims in its support is undeniable.

The MCC is therefore urging the provincial government to put an end to such practices with immediate effect. Muslims, for their part must denounce the continuation of the practice in this day and age when the original reasons for its permissibility no longer exist.

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« Reply #40 on: Jun 15, 2008 05:36 PM »

"The MCC as a secular Muslim organization" - precisely why their opinion is invalid.


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« Reply #41 on: Jun 15, 2008 05:46 PM »

This is why i agree with them!

The fact that these Muslims in polygamous unions are collecting social benefits funded by Ontario tax dollars while claiming to be practicing Islam, makes it incumbent on all Muslim Canadians to expose those who tarnish the good name of Islam and bring disrepute to the Muslim community.

The MCC said it was troubled that although the provincial law states that it only recognizes one spouse as legal, the other members of such unions can claim benefits as independent applicants.

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« Reply #42 on: Jun 15, 2008 05:56 PM »

salam

Surely if the individual is eligible for social benefit, they will claim and receive it regardless of marital status. AND, are not the coffers of the state monies filled with muslim taxpayers as well as non-muslim ones.  That argument makes no sense.


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And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #43 on: Jun 16, 2008 05:47 PM »

Quote
As for saying the first wife is entitled to divorce if the husband marries a second wife, I have not heard that from any of the Ulema.  Could you please provide evidence for this?

"If he married her on the condition that he should not make her move from her house or her city, then this condition is valid, because it was reported that the Prophet saw said: ‘The most deserving of conditions to be fulfilled are those by means of which sexual intercourse becomes permissible for you.’ If he married her on the condition that he will not marry another wife, then she has the right to leave him if he does take another wife." In conclusion, then, the conditions of the marriage contract are divided into three types, one of which must be adhered to, which is of benefit to the wife, such as her being able to stipulate that he cannot make her move from her house or city, or travel with him, or take another wife or a concubine. He has to adhere to these conditions, and if he does not, then she has the right to annul the marriage."

[Al-Mughni by Ibn Qudamah, part 7, "Kitab al-Nikah"]

"...Surely my prayer and my sacrifice, my life and my death are for Allah, the Lord of the Worlds..." (Qur'an, 6:162)
cheese
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« Reply #44 on: Jun 17, 2008 02:11 AM »

Blackrose

“no one is disagreeing with you whether polygomy is halal or not”
This is the key issue. We all agree that Allah has made it Hallal. What we disagree on is: can humans make what Allah made Hallal Harram.
Christians and Jews believe humans can make what Allah made Hallal, Harram. So Allah calls them “Worshipers of Priests and Rabbis”. And as mentioned before, the reason why St Augustine gave his Fatwa making it Harram, was it was illegal under Roman law.
What is the difference?
Tell me how your Fatwa is any different to Augustine’s Fatwa?

“full right to divorce if her husband marries another”
This is a false statement. Women do not have any right of divorce if the husband marries again. That’s why women who don’t want it to happen stipulate it on the marriage contract.
Women who don’t put it on the marriage contract have no right to complain as none of their rights have been taken away by their husband marrying again.
They are the deceitful party in this, by not stating that they are intolerant of polygamy in the marriage contract they implied they are acceptable of the husband marrying again. Those women (The ones that didn’t state it in the marriage contract) who leave their husband over such a petty issue as the husband taking another wife should fear Allah, and if they don’t return to him they deserve what they get in the next life.
Women can put any Hallal condition on the marriage contract, and if the husband breaks any of these conditions he agreed to, she obtains the right of divorce. Polygamy is no different to any other condition.

“this Imam clearly said is that you have to follow the law of the land”
In “this Imam” “This” is the key word here, not that imam who does polygamy that loads of people on this board ignorantly attacked. And talking of “this Imam”, what gives you the right to do ijtehad on his writings? What gives you the right to state, that his words also refer to polygamy? What makes you think he wasn’t talking on a narrower set of laws which need to be followed for the public good? Issues such as road traffic rules?
At least have the decency to ask him before you put words in his mouth.
But here what he says is irrelevant; they are his opinions, not the opinion of the Scholar so many of you attack.

“accuse most famous sheiks for being paid for what they say by the west”
Well that’s your second slander.
I said:
“Ulimah living under tyrannical regimes say whatever they are paid to say, those that don’t have to watch their wives and daughters raped in front of them.”
Notice the words “paid for what they say by the west” does not appear. If you are ignorant of this fact: in many Muslim countries including Saudi Arabia, Ulima do receive their salaries from the state. The state they receive it from is not a western state; it is the state that they live in. If you are accusing me of disrespecting him, again you are mistaken, read what I wrote again. He has his excuse for what he says, his life and the honour of his female relatives is his excuse, but people who parrot his mistakes have no excuse. They should fear Allah, or await his punishment.
I have personally met an Alim who was anally raped by the Saudi police for saying something the ruler didn’t want him to. So I am not accusing him, I might be accusing you, but I am not accusing him.

“obeying the laws of the land we are obeying Him , why cant you get that in your head???”
Because there is a word for that, it is called Shirk.

Fozia
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I meant telling people like White Socialist workers, “If you don’t like capitalism, go live in Cuba”. The reason I say that is everyone else has the right to change the country they live in if they don’t like the system. But if a Muslim disagrees with something he is asked to leave.
I personally believe this is racism. It upsets me to see Muslims using these statements. Think of any issue, Cannabis for example, do people tell smokers to leave and go to Netherlands where it is legal?

Ehsan
“in islam there is no such thing as a "sell by date"”
This is wonderful news! Please inform yourself!
I'm talking in regards to what you wrote on this thread:
http://jannah.org/madina/index.php?topic=881.new#new
Do you see a contradiction?

moe19x
MCC attack all Islamic laws and rules. Go to there website, and read their press releases. Hijab, Islamic finance they are all in it, I really can’t think of anything they have missed. They are against it all!
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« Reply #45 on: Jun 17, 2008 03:38 AM »

salaam

so honestly I was going to apologise to you cheese, not for my words, point of view, and facts, but for how I was saying them, I was afraid I was getting too harsh...but you are proving to be quite annoying..
you are stating baseless stuff.. but again I dont know your intentions so I will clear it up just incase you are really sincere and your questions r real.

ok first let me make it clear to you that many sheikhs and imams have said that you have to follow the law of the land unless something is fard on you and the law contradicts that. Again polygomy is not fard. Again many scholars have specifically mentioned polygomy. And I sincerelly doubt they are paid by tyrannical leaders to do so as there are too many.
we all know that you conclude tyrannical as west. you have made it clear in your posts.. so wy do u accuse me of slander, are you just trying to say something bakto me, it makes me question your intentions


having a another wife is not a petty issue to leave your husband on. what if she also has strong desires.. and now that he has another wife she will have to share so it might become important for her to leave as she would not want to committ adultery so its better now to find a husband and write it on the contract. you may ask me why shedid not write it before? well probly cause she didnt know shes got strong desires.. (i think this is an immodest issue, but im only mentioning to make my point) and what if it bothers her personally that her husband is touching another, would it not bother aman if his wife was touching another? Just bc it is allowed to take more than one wife doesnt mean that it bothers a woman less than a man for his /her spouse to be touching another.

Quote
obeying the laws of the land we are obeying Him , why cant you get that in your head???”
Because there is a word for that, it is called Shirk.

that is no way shirk... why do u say these types of things? where did you hear this?
you know the gov likes to say there are extremists mentioning muslim but i for have never seen or heard of one...but lookng at you im not so sure nemore.  do u know islam is suppose to be easy its the 'middle path' why so much hate, why do u want to make it so hard?  try to read some qur'an with open heart then translation and read the stories of the sahaba it may give you a peac eof mind and heart. 
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« Reply #46 on: Jun 17, 2008 07:08 AM »

Asalaamu Alaikum   bro

 “O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you.”[4:59]

I would highly recommend reading a Tafsir on the above verse and getting an idea of how a Muslim should practice upon it especially when living in a non Islamic country.


And for the lurkers reading this post out there (oh yes we know you’re out there Wink), Islam does not condone racism in any way shape or form so the use of the terms ‘black’, ‘white’, ‘brown’, ‘English’, ‘American’, ‘Paki’, ‘Indian’ etc used in a derogatory context is not part of our Islamic tradition.


What *is* part of our Islamic tradition, however, is the spreading of Salam between Muslims.


"A man asked the Prophet (PBUH), `Which type of Islam is the best?' He said, `To feed people, and to say salam to those you know and those you do not know.'"[Bukahri & Muslim]


"By the One in Whose hand is my soul, you will not enter Paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Shall I not tell you of something which if you do it, you will love one another? Spread salam amongst yourselves”.[Muslim]



For the sake of one another, I think it would be nice if we at least all sent salams to each other when we addressed each other.  bro


Wasalaam
Br Khalid

Say: "O ye my servants who believe! Fear your Lord, good is (the reward) for those who do good in this world. Spacious is God's earth! those who patiently persevere will truly receive a reward without measure!" [39:10]
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« Reply #47 on: Jun 17, 2008 02:24 PM »

Assalaamualaikum,

My dear brother cheese regarding "sell by dates" - read the next post down of brother abdur rahmans - he states correctly that:


Quote
"Finally, in order to the marriage to remain valid:

1. The husband must not be impotent and the wife should not have anything preventing sexual relations.
2.  The husband must provide for the wife.
3.  There should have been no deception and the hiding of defects before the marriage."

These are the general rule of thumb in Islam, however there are exceptions to this depending on the circumstance

If the husband is impotent - the wife may waver this and accept it according to Sh. Muhammad Jibreen, which means he would not be "passed his sell by date".

In addition, with regards to qawamah in Islam, if the husband is unable to provide, the roles can be reversed, however he does not loose his authority according to Imam Abu Hanifah. The marriage still remains valid - again indicating that he is not "passed his sell by date".

As i have stated early in this thread from the hadeeths of the prophet (SAW) two examples that show people do not have "sell by dates" in islam, and can be eligible for marriage after their prime.

Regarding my comments about the egyptian banned "marriage" - i said:

Quote
"I think based on the general assumption that a 92 yr old would most likely not have all of his faculties in place to be the ideal muslim husband to a 17 year old girl, the authorities would have been correct.

I personally agree with sister fozias response here, purely based on "general assumptions"

"his faculties" mean sound mind - i.e. I assumed that there may be some sort of deficiency in  him that prevented him from making a sound judgement. In which case, the authorities would be correct to stop the marriage if they felt the girl was not able to reason the situation properly. However, this does not stop the man from marrying a woman at all, there may be a more suitable woman for him that is adequate to his needs. Because there was much conjecture and assumption in the post due to its vague nature from the BBC report, i advised the discussion moves on to the facts.

And Allah knows best.


INFORMING YOU ABOUT ISLAM

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« Reply #48 on: Jun 25, 2008 05:52 PM »

OK!  So far, I have been reading this topic every once in a while but totally avoided posting a personal response/opinion.  I came across an Ayah from ALLAH SWT which answers/addresses polygamy clearly.  And here it is.  No spin or anything to it!  ALLAHU AKBAR (SWT).

It is us humans who distort everything to suit our whims!  Subhanallah!

I guess there will be people who will not agree with what ALLAH SWT has said.  Oh well, it is up to you. 

I have also posted at the Islamic Articles DB

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Al-Nisa (The Women)
Chapter 4: Verse 3 (Partial)


Polygamy
"If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then (marry) only one."

From this verse a number of facts are evident:

   1. That polygamy is neither mandatory, nor encouraged, but merely permitted.
   2. That the permission to practice polygamy is not associated with mere satisfaction of passion.
       
It is rather associated with compassion toward widows and orphans,   
       
a matter that is confirmed by the atmosphere in which the verse was revealed.
   3. That even in such a situation, the permission is far more restricted than the normal practice
       which existed among the Arabs and other people at that time
when many married as many as ten or
       more wives.
   4. That dealing justly with one’s wives is an obligation. This applies to housing, food,
       clothing, kind treatment etc., for which the husband is fully responsible. If one is not sure of being able to deal
       justly with them, the Quran say: “then (marry) only one.”

This verse, when combined with another verse in the same chapter (Quran 4: 129), shows some discouragement of such plural marriages. The requirement of justice rules out the fantasy that man can “own as many as he pleases.” It also rules out the concept of “secondary wife,” for all wives have exactly the same status and are entitled to identical rights and claims over their husband. It also implies, according to the Islamic Law, that should the husband fail to provide enough support for any of his wives, she can go to the court and ask for a divorce.

The verse says “marry,” not kidnap, buy, or seduce. What is “marriage” as understood in Islam? Marriage in Islam is a civil contract which is not valid unless both contracting parties consent to it. Thus no wife can be forced or “given” to a husband who is already married.

It is thus a free choice of both parties. As to the first wife:

   a. She may be barren or ill and see in polygamy a better solution than divorce.
   b. She may divorce him (unilaterally) if he is married to a second wife provided that the nuptial contract gives her
       the right of unilateral divorce (Ismah).
   c. She can go to court and ask for a divorce if there is evidence of mistreatment or injustice inflicted upon her.

Source:
"Polygamy in Islamic Law" - Jamal A. Badawi

The Almighty Allah says,

"When a servant thinks of Me, I am near.
When he invokes Me, I am with him.
If he reflects on Me in secret, I reply in secret,
And if he acknowledges Me in an assembly,
I acknowledge him in a far superior assembly."

- Prophet Muhammad (SAW), as reptd by Abu Huraira
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« Reply #49 on: Jun 25, 2008 06:52 PM »

 salaam

My reply is FINALLY! Mashallah Halima Mashallah


When the world pushes you to your knees, you are in the perfect position to pray

Be Yourself beautiful, and you will find the world full of beauty
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