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Author Topic: A Few Good Men: American Muslim women bemoan lack of ‘good’ male suitors Pr  (Read 10332 times)
cheese
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« on: Jun 08, 2008 06:49 PM »


 A Few Good Men: American Muslim women bemoan lack of ‘good’ male suitors       Print        E-mail
By SONDOS KHOLOKI-KAHF, Staff Writer   
Afaf*, 25, has been searching for a husband for a solid two years to no avail.

"All my friends were getting married by the age of 22, so, naturally, I wanted to be part of the ‘wedding club,’" she recalls. "And, of course, there was this romantic notion that it would be the love story of love stories."

Afaf started feeling the pressure as her friends talked endlessly about wedding dresses, halal caterers and honeymoons, even though she had not been planning on getting married while in college.

"For whatever reason, getting married seemed to be the only, if not main, goal they strived for," she says. "So, I felt I had to have this goal as well, and felt lacking among my friends that I was not married upon completion of my undergraduate studies."

Thus began her search after graduating from college. When suitors came knocking, Afaf was surprised at the mediocrity of the suitors available and was left wondering, "Where are all the ‘good guys’?"

Afaf, now a first-year law student, is one of thousands of American Muslim women between the ages of 25 and 30 struggling to find a decent suitor. Educated, pious, beautiful and accomplished, these women should have a gaggle of like-minded men waiting outside their doors. Unfortunately, the few, if any, men who approach these women appear less than satisfactory.

"I tend to meet two types [of men]," says Maryam*, 28, who has also been searching for a mate since college. "The first is the practicing Muslim brother who has his act together, but unfortunately has some really incompatible ideas about women and gender roles. The second type I meet is progressive and open-minded and is truly looking for a partner in life, but is not a

MARRIAGE

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practicing Muslim."

"For me," Afaf says, "a good man is someone who lives a balanced life between Western and Eastern culture, giving precedence to religion."

The lack of noteworthy male suitors is a topic frequently discussed between female friends. Muslim women are frustrated with the options left, and many are worried that their degrees and careers are getting in the way of meeting Mr. Right.

"We’ve been pushing young women to get educated and to get jobs, and now they’re being penalized for their ambition," according to Munira Ezzeldine, author of "Before the Wedding: 150 Questions for Muslims to Ask Before Getting Married."

"However, while these men are impressed with a successful and active woman, they do not consider her ‘marriage material,’" Ezzeldine adds. "Despite the elevation of women, many men have maintained traditional ideas as to the type of wife they seek. After all, they do not see anything wrong with the way their mother was."

"I recently had a suitor who told me he would be willing to help me [around the house] by not making a mess," Afaf recalls, adding he also told her she should not use her job as an excuse to ask him to help out at home.

"Furthermore, if he comes home from work hungry, I guess that would mean I would have to work part-time in order to have dinner prepared and ready when he comes home. I think that is the most frustrating aspect of being a female, only to be seen as a maid and a cook," she says.

Dr. Maher Hathout, spokesman for the Islamic Center of Southern California, agrees. "Men are being programmed by their parents to look for a specific kind of woman: submissive, comforting, shy, and obedient," he says. "The reality is that women are educated and looking to be comrades in marriage."

The marriage crisis materializes when these women in their late 20s and early 30s become settled in their careers or studies and seem like less desirable options to men because they will not bend into this traditional role. While these women work on their personal goals, young Muslim men appear to give up on them and marry from "back home" or marry non-Muslims, making the pool of suitors even smaller.

"Education is becoming a sore point for the girls because the guy moves on," says Shaikh Sadullah Khan, executive director of Religious Affairs at the Islamic Center of Irvine. "Our immigrant community has this mentality that our kid must graduate first, and for the girl, we’re stressing graduation versus marriage."

Indeed, a startling number of young Muslim women are finding themselves scrambling to find a husband before reaching their 30s and possibly never marrying. Many accomplished and educated young women end up lowering their standards for the sake of avoiding lifelong loneliness.

"Unless this crisis is addressed seriously, honestly and scientifically, it will lead to the disintegration of our community through a dilution of the next generation Islamically, a sudden revolt against marriage by women or a decrease in self-esteem among wives who lowered their standards just to marry," Hathout warns.

One young Muslim bachelor still searching for a spouse shares his take on the seeming lack of "good guys" on his weblog, "Marriage & Islam: The Quest for the Sweet One." In the post, Quest, as he is called to maintain anonymity, states that the worthiest bachelors start looking for a spouse when they are in their early 20s to "satisfy their built-in, intense desire for women. ... And this desire is always there, in the back of every man’s mind since puberty, like a ticking [bomb]."

These young, pious men begin looking for a wife, Quest reasons, who is closest to their age — basically, 19 to 21 years old.

"And what are these ‘good, smart ambitious girls’ doing when they’re in that age range?" Quest writes. "They’re also busy working on their education" and aren’t considering marriage. Or those who are considering marriage may be in a different location, so the two never meet, and the bachelors get fed up and marry from back home, he says.

Essentially, Quest emphasizes that the lack of a meeting forum is at the heart of the issue. "I think that is the BIGGEST problem – Muslims are scattered all over the country, and we’re not well connected. It’s hard to identify, know about, and meet the families of all the ‘good girls’ in a major metropolitan city, let alone the country," he explains. "We put all these obstacles between faithful Muslim guys and girls, that I think even a Muslim Tom Cruise would have a hard time marrying!"

With the current circumstances at hand, Ezzeldine advises young women to plan realistically. "You have to realize that you can’t have it all," she says. "It’s not going to be a fairy-tale where you excel at school, work 40-hour weeks, and marry a perfect guy. If you want to focus on a job or a higher degree, know that you might not have time to meet people."

Quest echoes this sentiment by clarifying that women shouldn’t have to give up their goals, but should realize that in doing so, they are taking a risk. "The longer they delay marriage in favor of education, the less [number of ] eligible men they’ll meet once they’re ready for marriage," he says. "And marriage and education are not necessarily conflicting. With the right husband, both can continue. It’s definitely a topic that should be brought up when considering a potential husband," he adds.

Dr. Hathout also favors a path that allows for both education and marriage to flourish simultaneously. "We need to change the current family model into one that builds the self, the family, and each other at the same time," he says. "Think of marriage as a tennis match — you want to play doubles, not singles, to win. In other words, struggle together and build your empire together. You are ready for marriage as long as you can get food on the table and a roof over your head, and there’s a potentiality for growth," he stresses.

Ezzeldine draws on the life of the Prophet Muhammad for guidance, specifically the example of his relationship with Khadijah.

"The Prophet’s first wife, Khadijah, was an established career woman who was 15 years older than her husband," Ezzeldine says. "Khadijah was a very confident and successful woman who actually proposed to the 24-year-old Muhammad. Yet, the Prophet was not intimidated by her nor found her ‘unmarriageable.’ They maintained a strong marriage as she continued to be a businesswoman, as well as wife and mother."

Ezzeldine goes on to remind Muslims that Prophet Muhammad and Khadijah were married for 28 years, the longest of all his marriages. "Many Muslim women seek not to compete with men, but rather to establish a partnership with their spouse," she continues. "Ultimately, these women want to be cherished and loved in the same way that the Prophet loved Khadijah. This type of partnership in marriage can only exist when both people are accepting and respectful of one another’s ambitions and priorities in life."

Afaf has not given up searching for Mr. Right, but meanwhile uses school as a welcome distraction. "I used to be obsessed about marriage until I entered law school," she says. "Pursuing my graduate studies has really allowed me to learn a lot about myself and to focus on things that matter. It is very sad to see girls who are 22 and depressed as to why they are not married. I have no problem with a woman who chooses to be a wife and a mother, but I do have problem if she believes that is all she can be … or doesn’t define herself as accomplished until she attains her MRS. Degree."

* Names have been changed.

----------- ----------------
If you translate this article in to English, it translates to; too many Muslim women in America are passing their sell by date.

I don’t think it is just an American problem; it exists in the UK, and even rich Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia and UAE.
In Saudi and UAE women go for education, and careers, they want it all including extortionate muhrs, but no man is willing to give it all. So the local men marry cheap imports. And the local women grow old single.

I think if there aren’t enough suitable men, women should NOT lower their standards. If there are only a few good men, or all the good men are taken, why not share? It is Hallal, so it is clearly the solution!

Anyway, people don’t have to get married. And if people want to remain single that is up them as marriage isn’t farad. I know I was far happier when I was single. So when my wife asked me if I wanted additional one (I think her friend was getting divorced at that time) I said, no way, being married to one is such a pain, another will only double the pain and I said no to a friend of mine who wanted me to take his daughter as my second, but with him I said my wife will get jealous and carve me up while I sleep. I thought I couldn’t say I didn’t want another one, because that might offend him for some reason, and it would make me look unmanly if I said I can only handle one.
I think it takes a special type of man to want to marry more than one, I have loads of friends with more than one and they are all really religious, mainly selafi and sufis and at least one Tabligi.
No two, that tall man has, make that at least three tablgis with more than one.
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« Reply #1 on: Jun 09, 2008 02:30 AM »

Quote
I think if there aren’t enough suitable men, women should NOT lower their standards. If there are only a few good men, or all the good men are taken, why not share? It is Hallal, so it is clearly the solution!


IF you think you are past your 'sell out date' I think you should be more confident.. and have trust in Allah swt as everyones time for marriage is different , some people are not meant to marry , (read from another article that was posted) , my aunt got married for the first time when she was past her fifties. and my other in her forties.
But if you are thinking that you want to marry a man who is already married I believe it would be BEST to ask his wife before you approach him. If she is unhappy then one may have broken a marriage, kids have been hurt and nothing good has happened. how is it good or any way a solution if one marriage is breaking because of another?

Quote
I know I was far happier when I was single. So when my wife asked me if I wanted additional one (I think her friend was getting divorced at that time) I said, no way, being married to one is such a pain, another will only double the pain and I said no to a friend of mine who wanted me to take his daughter as my second, but with him I said my wife will get jealous and carve me up while I sleep.

Ofcourse this is your personal business but since you wrote it on board I am curious to ask why she would be jealous about the other one when she herself askked you about the first one?
second those are strong words when you say 'being married to one is such a pain' especially since she may not think it same of you if she is asking you to marry her friend.
I know that you did not ask for nasheeha but I would still like to give just because I was listening to an interview with Junaid Jamshed. .. and he was telling the guy you know this one sheikh told him that when Aisha ra was upset w the prophet pbuh he would put feed her and junaid jamshed was shocked thinking it makes sense my wife feed me but me feed her? So the next day he tried it and his wife was extremely shocked and she said where did you learn this?Huh? and he told her of his friend. And she said hes the only good friend you have but all of your other friends are bad .. lol .. anyway so then he asked her if he go to tablique jamat (i believe or somewhere anyways) out of town and it will help the whole family. and she said ok.. so it had a really strong reaction..
sometimes imitating the way s of the prophet can really help your marriage and bring so much love btw a husband and wife..
anyway if this didnt help you it may help someoene else so I really wanted to write it..

Aslamualaikum
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« Reply #2 on: Jun 09, 2008 05:54 PM »

 salaam
 
I am well aquainted with brother quests search for a spouse on his weblog, and it seems that he has had a very hard time. I also believe it isnot completly to blame, more and more each day woman are starting to  become businesswoman leaving behind their traditional roles and becoming in someways bread winners, we have noticed this change over the years its nothing new. more and more women are choosing to futher persuing their eductions and opting for better careers over families,(has anyone seen the film baby's momma? lol) putting the search for spouses on the backburner. maybe it' because they realize that sometimes men at a young age can be immature and wanting to settle down with a family when not having the means for support.
But then again, and I know this from personal experience,it's still hard for womanto find suitors, because they are either not practicing with a great outlook, or practicing but stern and strict with their roles. Quest defines the harmony of the two" the sweet one"

On the other hand, yes i do feel bad for the decent brothers who are being overlooked by the "busy girls" as stated by quest, the ones who ignore nice brother's like quest in search for a higher degree. my only is advice to these decent brothers is to not  give up home, Allah knows your wife, although you may not know her yet, and he's waiting for the right time for you two to meet.

Ok i think my point is said,
Please check out Brother Quests blog, it's funny,smart, sometimes philosophical and just a real brother's quest for the sweet one to become his wife

www.muslimquest.blogspot.com

 purplehijabisis
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« Reply #3 on: Jun 09, 2008 07:42 PM »

salam

This is controversial for many people, but the community (aka the parents) need to accept the idea of Muslims (both bros and sisters) committing to or even marrying during the college years. It has its drawbacks definitely, due to financial and maturity issues, but things get only harder after college. Not saying that we should encourage it, but we shouldn't discourage it and essentially forbid it like many people do. We make it difficult for them to do something halal and then years later when it is more difficult to meet people and they are having difficulty hookng up we are cluelessly wondering "oh there is a crisis in the community, how come no one is getting married, the kids are too picky etc etc"...
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« Reply #4 on: Jun 09, 2008 08:13 PM »

salam

Awww you romantic thing you Roll Eyes
  I know I was far happier when I was single. So when my wife asked me if I wanted additional one (I think her friend was getting divorced at that time) I said, no way, being married to one is such a pain, another will only double the pain

I bet Mrs Cheese considers herself sooo lucky to be married to a sweetie such as yourself Roll Eyes This same Mrs Cheese, would be the woman to whom you compared yourself as being the better looking one in the marriage from yes?




Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #5 on: Jun 09, 2008 10:40 PM »

salam

This is controversial for many people, but the community (aka the parents) need to accept the idea of Muslims (both bros and sisters) committing to or even marrying during the college years. It has its drawbacks definitely, due to financial and maturity issues, but things get only harder after college. Not saying that we should encourage it, but we shouldn't discourage it and essentially forbid it like many people do. We make it difficult for them to do something halal and then years later when they are having difficulty hookng up we are cluelessly wondering "oh there is a crisis in the community, how come no one is getting married, the kids are too picky etc etc"...
I couldn't agree more, but even still in college it's hard to find an appropiate practicing male suitor. even with the MSA. I'm am young woman(20) in my college years so for sure i know what it's like.

i wouldn't say that either men or woman have a harder time finding good suitors, but then again MANY men tend to marry from back home, leaving american woman without appropiate suitors

Quote
Essentially, Quest emphasizes that the lack of a meeting forum is at the heart of the issue. "I think that is the BIGGEST problem – Muslims are scattered all over the country, and we’re not well connected. It’s hard to identify, know about, and meet the families of all the ‘good girls’ in a major metropolitan city, let alone the country," he explains. "We put all these obstacles between faithful Muslim guys and girls, that I think even a Muslim Tom Cruise would have a hard time marrying!"

I could totally agree with that too, it's hard to find muslim partners here in the US, because we are all over the place, in huge cities and in small town, that's IT! we should just all pick a state, city...etc and just move there.hehehe
oh wouldn't that make things so much easier. I hereby declare...hmm,nebraska to be the US's Muslim State lmao, if only things were that easy we would all be finding suitors much easier

this lack of a meeting formum (camon, Msa is just not cutting it) is probably why all those Muslim matrimonial websites have been popping up over the web, but no thanks I'd rather stick to boy and girl meet through family then to try all that hooey.

It seems like everyone wants to get married these days, but no one can.


it's complicated but you get my drift

MAKE DUA, Allah knows your spouse, and is waiting for the right time to bring you two together!!!!!!!

 hijabisis
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« Reply #6 on: Jun 10, 2008 02:00 AM »

As salaamu alaikum

I'm going to add my 25 cents worth from my "been there; done that" archives. It is far easier for a man who is still pursuing his degree to get married because he can finish since he will convince/persuade his wife to be patient and supportive whereas a woman who gets married while still pursuing her degree will quickly find that she more than likely cannot finish either because suddenly there will be a "bun in the oven" or her seemingly sweet husband turns into a "narrow-minded" man.  I made the mistake of not following this sage advice believing that my elders just wanted to keep me from happiness.  I wish I had listened to them.  I got pregnant and left school and it took me almost 8 years to finally get it together and finish only part way and other 8 years (and two additional kids and two failed marriage not to mention the death of my mother - who warned me) to finally finish.  So there is no way that I would ever suggest to any young sister to get so suckered in by any "smooth" talking pious and progressive brother that will convince you that it won't be a problem with you finishing school.  If you hear that - run away - fast.  I listened to everything from "how can you manage school and caring for a child" to "how is you finishing school going to benefit the family" not to mention having my money for books stolen (under the guise of borrowing without the intent to repay).  And no I'm not saying this because I'm bitter; I got past that a while ago.  I'm saying it to hopefully save someone else from that kind of misery.

I can relate to the two categories; only in my case the two categories are usually the "under or unemployed" or the "total jerks".  The good ones don't want anything to do with me because they find some superficial issue which proves that they weren't so good afterall.

BTW my meeting with the prospect from LA is this Friday.  At first I was cool about it; then a bit freaked out; now I'm having second thoughts.  Of course I'll go through with the meeting because I'm a woman of my word but I ultimately think I may have to take a pass.  Not that I'm afraid of distance or anything but let's be real; I've supported myself and my kids for years even though I shouldn't have to since it is not my role so if he isn't going to be able to do it from where he is then it's "No Deal".  This doesn't even go into the other human factors that must be considered.

As salaamu alaikum

Fa'izah

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« Reply #7 on: Jun 10, 2008 02:45 AM »

 salaam

Quote
It is far easier for a man who is still pursuing his degree to get married because he can finish since he will convince/persuade his wife to be patient and supportive whereas a woman who gets married while still pursuing her degree will quickly find that she more than likely cannot finish either because suddenly there will be a "bun in the oven" or her seemingly sweet husband turns into a "narrow-minded" man.

Omg I couldn't have said it better. I bet that is why woman are just holding off because once the babies come isso hard to resume your studies, part time student, fulltime mom/wife would take AGES.

That's a major downfall about getting married while in college. SO let's say meet someone you want to marry and set a date after graduation on as close as 9 months from gradation, that way no babies can get in the way


Quote
Essentially, Quest emphasizes that the lack of a meeting forum is at the heart of the issue. "I think that is the BIGGEST problem – Muslims are scattered all over the country, and we’re not well connected. It’s hard to identify, know about, and meet the families of all the ‘good girls’ in a major metropolitan city, let alone the country," he explains.
but back to what Quest was saying, it's so hard MEETING muslims to marry, ones that are pious and practicing, who have the fear and love of Allah.

so is anyone thinking about all the Muslims in the US moving to Nebraska? ok you tell a friend, I'll tell a friend, they tell a friend Come on it would be so awesome Smiley~ aww a girl can only wish. giggles

 purplehijabisis

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« Reply #8 on: Jun 10, 2008 08:32 PM »

salam

This is controversial for many people, but the community (aka the parents) need to accept the idea of Muslims (both bros and sisters) committing to or even marrying during the college years. It has its drawbacks definitely, due to financial and maturity issues, but things get only harder after college. Not saying that we should encourage it, but we shouldn't discourage it and essentially forbid it like many people do. We make it difficult for them to do something halal and then years later when they are having difficulty hookng up we are cluelessly wondering "oh there is a crisis in the community, how come no one is getting married, the kids are too picky etc etc"...

Assalamu'alaikum,

I don't think marrying early is the answer.

Financial and maturity issues are big and pertinent issues, of which, couples would end up in bad marriages (and subsequently divorce) if these issues are overlooked.

The rise in divorce in North America is also associated to early marriages where couples are not only immature, but they are also not equipped and prepared for marriage.

We need to look beyond marriage. It's not about getting married per se, but building families that are strong so that we can worship Allah in the best way. This requires time, and time belongs to Allah.

There's no need to rush into marriage with the *fear* for eternal singlehood. Ar Rasool (saw) advised us to fast if we are not ready for marriage. And being ready means that we are also able to fulfil our responsibilities - and that requires maturity and financial stability.

The community needs to evolve and look beyond education and careers from being stumbling blocks to a value-added quality of prospective wives.

Isn't pursuing knowledge an ibadah that draws a person closer to Allah? Isn't contributing to the family/society by working an ibadah? Both contributes to a person's maturity not only intellectually but emotionally and spiritually too.

Until the community gets educated, changes and comes out from this stagnant young-bimbo-wife syndrome, then, not only would this have negative repercussions to the unmarried sisters but the future generation of those who only see value in the age of prospectives.

What goes round - comes round.

Allahua'lam
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« Reply #9 on: Jun 10, 2008 11:31 PM »

salam

i think the pros of early marriage outweigh the cons. if a young wo/man wants to marry while still in college, s/he should be encouraged or at least taken seriously rather than discouraged.  men or women who are not mature would not be interested in marriage at all, regardless of age.  rather,  they would be more interested in flirting, dating, chatting and all that stuff. 

many people are older but not necessarily (sp?) mature and vice versa. 

take care
wassalam


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« Reply #10 on: Jun 11, 2008 12:17 AM »

salaam

I agree I think its really important to marry in college or before if you can jsut because all the stuff that goes on.

so my question is why are there only 'A Few Good Men'?
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« Reply #11 on: Jun 11, 2008 05:31 AM »

wsalam,

I would say every guy over 29 that isn't married is unreasonably picky about what he wants. Just look at your friend Quest. According to his blog he wants a girl who is "down to earth, playful, and smart", under 23, Arab OR speaks Arabic and he says "If I could choose, I'd go with smooth skin that is white, but not pinkish white, just white, or wheat white, and then combine that with black eyes." He also mentions meeting the "perfect girl" but that she was 1-2 years older than him so he decided he wasn't looking. Geez.

  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #12 on: Jun 11, 2008 06:03 AM »

 salaam
Lol@ Jannah

but dont we all have our dream girls, guys ...etc.
Aww I read his blog nearly all the time, I'm eager to read that posts that's says "Engaged to the sweet one," or "I found her" .

Hmm wait a minute
Quote
According to his blog he wants a girl who is "down to earth, playful, and smart", under 23, Arab OR speaks Arabic and he says "If I could choose, I'd go with smooth skin that is white, but not pinkish white, just white, or wheat white, and then combine that with black eyes."

I'm under 23, I'm smart playful...etc with white skin, I'm pretty pale, i speak arabic, I got... dark green eyes, Oh I thought I could say that i fit this whole thing the entire time and he just really wanted to marry ME! lmao Plus I sont think he's over 29, Last time I checked he was mid 20s and wanted a wife only a few years younger, because he believes in the one wife for life concept and wants to get a young one. I think his heart really is in the right place. It's just that like i said there is no place for all the muslim youth to meet.
Ok so is no one even considering my idea of all the Muslims moving to nebraska, ok I am willing to change the state maybe hmm not miami the hispanics already go it, how about IDK lets pick a state and move there giggles


Quote
He also mentions meeting the "perfect girl" but that she was 1-2 years older than him so he decided he wasn't looking
Lmao no it seems that way, but its not that way at all, he's got some mysterious "2nd Quest" that is taking up most of his time not allowing him free time to continue on his first quest of finding a wife, Through various comments( some by me) I have found out, it's not a degree, and its not hafiz training (the second was my guess) so who even knows what's taking up most of his time. but one thing for sure his quest is currently paused, but this is from his blog what you were talking about Jannah
Quote
Girl #1: I traveled for 5+ hours with this girl. Don't worry, it was a halal setting. She's really interesting. To be honest, I kind of arranged it so that she can travel with me because the rest of the people on this trip weren't very exciting. We had chemistry. Problem is she's 1-2 years older than me. She's also not that attractive at first glance, but at second glance she is, especially with her awesome personality. Every girl has some intrinsic beauty. She's really nice too. She's probably one of the more interesting Muslim girls I've seen. She would be a "cool" wife. Up for anything. And street smart. She's still on my radar, but as I said, I'm not really looking to marry right now.
see he says he's not looking right now because if you read other posts, i'm not sure if you did or not, it says he's busy with this said 2nd quest.

Oh a little birdie, aka me, told him that he was slightly famous because of all this talk about his blog and he made a post about it, for anyone who is interested
Quote
Monday, June 09, 2008
Apparently I'm famous...
Check out this month's main article in California's Muslim Newspaper, (InFocus News):
A Few Good Men: American Muslim women bemoan lack of ‘good’ male suitors
I'm in it! Yey! I wish I can tell all my friends about it. "Hey! That's me!".
It's a great article. Hopefully it'll generate discussion and get awareness up within the community.
Make du3a' for all the single women out there. Their quest is harder.


well may Allah make it easy for him, and all the other brothers and sisters out there looking for good suitors


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men or women who are not mature would not be interested in marriage at all, regardless of age.  rather,  they would be more interested in flirting, dating, chatting and all that stuff.
- um aboodi

Last time I checked "flirting dating chatting and all that stuff" is totally Haram, or did I miss something. Cheesy


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« Reply #13 on: Jun 11, 2008 08:08 AM »

peace be upon you

I remember a couple of years ago I heard my mom say: if I had a son, I would have helped/supported him if he wanted to get married while still in college.  And I was shocked at first?  Not that it should have been shocking, my family has never stood in the way of any of us wanting to get married at any age (over 18 I guess)...but it did make me think.  I too think that parents should be more open to this if the opportunity arises for marriage.  I am not saying that it is a solution for everyone but it definitley needs to be an option.

One of the brothers in my class at uni got married in our 3rd year. He was the first to get married and both the families helped to support the young couple.  It worked out great for them mashaAllah, and both got to complete their studies.  He is now specialising, and while he was trying to make up his mind about specialisation, he asked me about the effect of another 4yrs of studies/intense work on his wife...and my answer was: well, she was there for you, supported you all through med school, I am sure she will do the same if you want to specialise.  They already had that bond.  MashaAllah.

Another point:  I dont understand why everyone gets put in the same basket...not ALL girls who study "put off" marriage until afterwards.  Not ALL girls want a PhD before marriage.  It's a sick generalisation (that I too have been accused of and makes me sick).  I took most of the pre-proposal meetings very seriously back in uni and even before but they just were not the right one you know?  And not ALL girls who have careers want to work 80 hours a week and pursue their careers to the moon while being married.  We do realise our responsibilities before Allah swt.  I am just tired of being boxed with other peoples' pre/misconceptions.

ok time for me to get out of this marriage thread
salam
S.
p.s the minute I hear/read about how the man wants a very beautiful, white, blue eyed wife, my eyes do this Roll Eyes not that it is not his right to want what he wants,, but geepers... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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« Reply #14 on: Jun 11, 2008 02:34 PM »

 salaam

Quote
p.s the minute I hear/read about how the man wants a very beautiful, white, blue eyed wife, my eyes do this  not that it is not his right to want what he wants,, but geepers...   p.s the minute I hear/read about how the man wants a very beautiful, white, blue eyed wife, my eyes do this  not that it is not his right to want what he wants,, but geepers...   


omg poor Quest it's not all like that either, i thinkit was brown eyes, LOL

wait lemme find it I think I read something about what he actually wants, and I remeber it was very vague, and I couldn't believe he didn't have a wife
FROM Quest for the Sweetonehttp://muslimquest.blogspot.com/2007/07/what-im-looking-for-in-girl.html
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Tuesday, July 31, 2007
What I'm Looking For In a Girl
 
In light of all the experiences I've had with the marriage process recently, I sat down a few nights ago and listed all the qualities I want in a girl. The question to myself was, "After visiting so many girls and families so far, why the heck have I not found the right girl by now? What is it that I'm looking for, are there any patterns in the reasons I stop considering a girl, and am I being too picky?"

Surprisingly, it didn't take long to come up with the list, and I'm pretty confident this is what I'm looking for. Here it is, in prioritized order:

Must Haves

Muslim. Wears Hijab.
Good deen and character
Easy to communicate with
Speaks Arabic (and good English ofcourse) *** He's said recently that he has relaxed this requirment
Same age or younger than I
Usually, these are also must haves, but I might ignore if she is really good in other qualities:

University educated
Pleasing to my eye (well...she always has to be pleasing to my eye...but she does not necessarily need to be beautiful for that to happen)
Has to have some or all of these qualities:

Wants to do something with her life and is pro-active about it
Sociable with both Muslims and non-Muslims
Likes to learn. Reads books.
Mature. Has intellectual depth. Speaks for a reason. Definitely not an airhead.

Fun. Likes the outdoors. Likes to try new things.

Copes well with random changes in life (small and big), even welcomes them. Optimistic.

Feminine
Comes from a good family (religious, educated, appreciate the traditions)

So which qualities do I often find missing in a girl? What are the bottlenecks? I'd say the biggest is age and beauty. If I want a girl that's younger than I and beautiful, it's likely that she won't have the other characteristics I'm looking for, especially maturity and intellectual depth.

The problem is that I'm fairly young, and a lot of the younger ones are either still in school, in another city than I, and have more than one year left in their education.

Futhermore, a lot of the interesting ones want to pursue higher levels of education, so if you're not in the same city as they are, the logistics make it harder to marry.

These factors, coupled with the fact that my family needs to approve of the girl and her family, and that I'm living in an area with a small selection of hijabis, makes it pretty hard to find the right one.

I'm happy with my bachelor life though, and I'm working on many fronts to find the right girl, so as long as that's happening, I can wait forever!



see I personally dont think all that is TOO much to ask. I'll just make dua for him that his quests arent too long


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I too think that parents should be more open to this if the opportunity arises for marriage.  I am not saying that it is a solution for everyone but it definitley needs to be an option.


I must agree here, Sometimes, and I meansometimes marriage is just what you need to straighten someone out. I dont really have proof of this, but in my life from what I've seen in rare occassions a marriage tends to straighten out a guys act and gets him on the straight and pious path rather quickly. I'm sure everyone else is aware of this possiablity.

yea this marriage forum gets tricky rather quickly

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« Reply #15 on: Jun 11, 2008 03:24 PM »

salam

Sorry to shock you sis Nadiyya, but many muslims do haram things throughout the course of their lives. 

take care
wassalam

Quote
Quote
men or women who are not mature would not be interested in marriage at all, regardless of age.  rather,  they would be more interested in flirting, dating, chatting and all that stuff.
- um aboodi

Last time I checked "flirting dating chatting and all that stuff" is totally Haram, or did I miss something. Cheesy

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« Reply #16 on: Jun 11, 2008 05:04 PM »

It took me some time, but i think Barr could be right. If the parents/families were educated would we have all these issues about wanting a specific race/color/culture, or wanting a doctor, 6-figure millionaire or whatever, or wanting to marry an uneducated girl or someone back home or waiting until the guy is 30 and 'established' to marry or not getting engaged in school, etc etc. If everyone was educated it would open up a whole world of choices and the pool would be bigger and wider for everyone and at an earlier age, before everything gets more difficult. Single people also would perhaps have more help from their communities and help in getting married and staying married.

and good point about "young-bimbo-wife syndrome"  Shocked Tongue so true...


Assalamu'alaikum,

I don't think marrying early is the answer.

Financial and maturity issues are big and pertinent issues, of which, couples would end up in bad marriages (and subsequently divorce) if these issues are overlooked.

The rise in divorce in North America is also associated to early marriages where couples are not only immature, but they are also not equipped and prepared for marriage.

We need to look beyond marriage. It's not about getting married per se, but building families that are strong so that we can worship Allah in the best way. This requires time, and time belongs to Allah.

There's no need to rush into marriage with the *fear* for eternal singlehood. Ar Rasool (saw) advised us to fast if we are not ready for marriage. And being ready means that we are also able to fulfil our responsibilities - and that requires maturity and financial stability.

The community needs to evolve and look beyond education and careers from being stumbling blocks to a value-added quality of prospective wives.

Isn't pursuing knowledge an ibadah that draws a person closer to Allah? Isn't contributing to the family/society by working an ibadah? Both contributes to a person's maturity not only intellectually but emotionally and spiritually too.

Until the community gets educated, changes and comes out from this stagnant young-bimbo-wife syndrome, then, not only would this have negative repercussions to the unmarried sisters but the future generation of those who only see value in the age of prospectives.

What goes round - comes round.

Allahua'lam
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« Reply #17 on: Jun 11, 2008 09:39 PM »

I'll go back to my "been there; done that" box.  Marriage cannot straighten out anyone.  If the individual doesn't recognize that there is something crooked with them they won't change just because there is another person in their life.  Women are conditioned to believe that they can solve any problem through patience and gentle persuasion; yet the reality is that it doesn't work.  Don't look at the "potential" that someone has and believe you can bring it out of them.  If the potential hasn't manifested by the time you have met the person it is likely not to come out.

As to the situation where the couple married while still in school it was said that the families supported them so it was not the wife who was supportive and therefore would continue to be while the husband pursued a speciality; the wife was also being supported in the pursuit of her own academic career.

The "fear of eternal singlehood" is a very real one.  I stand as witness to that.  Failed marriages are proof of that.  Marrying for the sake of not being alone in this life and thinking I could draw the "potenial" out of another person did nothing but weigh me down and rob me of who I was as a person.  It clouded my thinking and hardened my heart.  That should be enough to make me quit thinking about marriage as should the fact that I'm no longer the "twenty-something  slender  naive immature" girl that even the 50+ brothers seem to want.  So I guess I'm stoopit (purposely misspelled) or something; but I still believe that there is someone out there for me - you know the "brother who is a solid mix of Islamic and secular thoughts ;and pursuits; who is 6 feet tall or taller  speaks Arabic (preferrably native speaker)  born/raised Muslim (had my fill of the reverts)  has an actual career that he enjoys; has the ability to care for a wife and family;  isn't a domineering male chauvanist idiot and doesn't believe that he knows everything;  has made hajj or has plans to in the near future;  isn't too skinny nor too fat;  knows his way around the kitchen and can fix stuff; believes in intimacy and not just focusing on his own needs and won't leave me wondering what happened nor totally disappointed; honest and open  etc."  Not sure if such exists and one does hopefully his doesn't have his own laundry list of superficial "needs/demands".  Of course my list is formulated based on years of disappointment and so ruling out what didn't work.

I'm not so sure that the level of secular education has anything to do with the specific race/color/culture issue;  the level of Islamic education is what impacts that since we are taught that no one group is collectively better than another; rather each person must be measured on their individual merit.  This is the failing that we see and that some of us are negatively impacted by which only further decreases the pool of candidates and usually leaves that the pool of fools.  I mean seriously I've been insulted by people who have nothing to offer but believe they are "hot suff" when they aren't even "luke warm".  The pool in the local area is just too sad and I don't know why.  Although once someone told me I needed to move from this area lest I die Islamically because of the problems and lack of prospects.  Of course the suggested relocation place was not to my liking because from what I could ascertain it was filled with cluleless oppressive brothers and clueless oppressed sisters so I knew I'd stick out like a sore thumb until my spirit and intellect were crushed.  So I just don't know.

Still the recommendation to marry young isn't sound.  Sure it may for the moment protect against the temptations out there until one or both come to realize that there is someone and something better out there and that in general there is more to life than their rountine married life.  I raced away from wat I insisted was a cloistered life into a marriage and although I stuck it out and had 2 daughters - I HATED it and clearly so did he which is why he was running around with someone else and left me for her after our youngest was born.  I regretted my life and for a long time resented having children and being trapped.  But I talk too much; just because it happened to me doesn't mean necessarily that it will happen to another.  So I keep hoping that my knight in shinning armor (or would that be sheik) will come riding my way right now and save me from the misery that is my life.  Or will I have to construct him myself.

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« Reply #18 on: Jun 11, 2008 11:20 PM »

salam

There must be a compromise there somewhere? I think we as a community should value education more.
I think many brothers reject educated wives because they know they will know their rights and demand them, and of course in this day and age, in the west at the very least, sisters are going to try and pursue their academic credentials as far as possible, in an uncertain life at least if properly educated one has the assurance that one can take care of oneself.

Sr Faizah I truly hope and pray you get the man you dream of and that he is wonderful to you and your children.

Personally, I got married very young, far far too young. The dangers of being married at a young age (apart from not being terribly interested in the whole process), it almost cost my education, if it hadnt been for my parents being adamant I finish my degree I would be uneducated and working as a checkout girl in tescos now prolly to support myself and my girls. Men in my experience will promise the moon and a few stars beside to get married to you, whether those promises are kept depends entirely on the guy you married.
Also marriage causes women the most upheavel, for men there's not that big a change they get more benefit out of it than drawbacks, women get a whole heap of chores as far as I can see......

I dont know what the answer is, but I dont think marrying young is the answer, unless obviously the young people in question want to.
I personally dont know a single girl who marreid young and doesnt regret it. Women tend to sacrifice their potential under such circumstances, a mans life doesnt change.


Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #19 on: Jun 12, 2008 01:10 AM »

salam

Some interesting comments on this very same article on Imam Suhaib Webb's blog, including by SDW himself:

http://www.suhaibwebb.com/blog/youth-issues/a-few-good-men-american-muslim-women-bemoan-lack-of-%e2%80%98good%e2%80%99-male-suitors/#comments
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« Reply #20 on: Jun 12, 2008 03:01 AM »

 salaam

wow yea, that article really has sparked alot of interest in the Muslim Community across the US. Thanks for the Link Br. AbdulBasir

 purplehijabisis

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« Reply #21 on: Jun 12, 2008 05:31 PM »

JazakAllahu Kair for the link Abdul Basir.

Is SDW Suhebb Webb himself?  He makes a good point. But dont you all think the reason why woman nowadays want to finish their education first and may be so picky is because of all the terrible situations they heard about. And this is reality, these situations are true and there are too many. And I do notice the scholars noticing them and giving more lectures on womans rights and the all the wrong men are doing alhumdulilah. But why too many cases , why such 'FEW GOOD MEN' ???Maybe its true that men dont write about their problems but that doesnt make the womans problems any less. Just look at this board at naseeha.. go through the archives through the years. The husband s are doing many many haraam things. Hitting, beating, cheating, drinking, controlling, being truly unfair. These are all Muslim men. Maybe woman have become scared now?  Its easier for a man there is no doubt, because once the woman is attatched its hard for her to get out, she also has to think about the children because in most cases she will be with them alone. It s extremely hard.
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« Reply #22 on: Jun 15, 2008 03:09 AM »

salaam..
I think somebody in this thread said they never heard of girls who got married really young and were  really happy

there are two girls here that are the proof

http://www.jannah.org/madina/archives/year2002/7018.shtml
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« Reply #23 on: Jun 16, 2008 12:48 PM »

Salaam

No women haven't become afraid (or at least not me).  What we've become is empowered as well as educated and gained the ability to exert our autonomy and not needlessly compromise our rights.  We have learned that our faith and reliance is not to be placed on a man but rather with Allah where it rightfully belongs.  Men can no longer be relied upon to adhere to Islamic priniciples 100% of the time; nor can the community be relied upon to step in and fill in should the need arise.  So as such we "comparision shop" for prospects because the "one prospect at a time" rule is no longer the right method and besides the "comparison shopping" approach is the male norm.

BTW my "meeting" didn't happen; he cancelled at the last minute because the events he was involved with days before took longer than anticipated and rendered him exhausted.  I spent the weekend crushed but I blame myself for daring to actually look forward to anything.  So I kicked myself and shed some tears even got angry and shut out everyone and everything and then finally prayed and found solace.  I pick myself up add this to the "questionable" column and avail myself of the "comparision shopping" mode.  If it is to be then that is for Allah to determine and for me to just accept.

Fa'izah
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« Reply #24 on: Jun 29, 2008 09:17 PM »


as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,

I haven't read the whole discussion but just wanted to say that I am really disturbed by any brother (or sister for that matter) putting up a detailed description of what type of physical qualities/characterestics they are attracted to in a spouse, in terms of body type, skin color, etc., and citing actresses/actors or people who have that same 'look' to give people a better idea of what they mean... that is a very personal thing and I think it's a good thing to be shy about sharing that with others... I really felt embarassed when reading that brother's blog and felt that that was a real expression of a lack of hayaa'.  I guess I'm advising him openly because his blog is public; but brother should check himself and not let the 'anonymity' of the internet world let him do things that are improper. 

I also don't think that doing that is even the right attitude to have when looking for a spouse... of course everyone has their preferences and when you're considering someone you need to make sure you are attracted to them... but going into it with an image already in mind formulated from attractive women you've studied in the past is not the right way to do things, Allahu a'lam....

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